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View Full Version : VERY IMPORTANT SAFETY WARNING! - Camskill Lower Suspension Arms



Dan_G
14-01-2008, 10:58 PM
This is very serious.

On the way home from work this evening turning right off the main A90 road in rush hour to head down to newburgh down the A975.

Had complete failure of the ball joint ( the metal below the tapered shaft snapped) on the lower arm on ther drivers side.

This caused the wheel to pivot on the upper (boomerang shaped) arm and swing the complete wheel around into the wheel arch.. this then ripped the inner CV joint from the transmission, so i lost drive and steering.

I was only doing 10mph and somehow manged to drive fwd enough to clear the oncoming 60mph traffic (before the inner cv joint came out i guess)

i managed to jack the car up, remove the wheel then tie the lower arm to the hub with rope so i could get it onto the reovery truck.

i am currently very tired and very very p!ssed off.... this story could have very easily ended so much worse....

I just could not live with myself i did not post this warning and someone else has the same happen. this happening with increase speed and in different circumstances does not bear thinking about.

I believe the ball joint was overly tight/stiff in its socket and the torque from the steering has eventually, through fatigue stress, cause catastrophic failure.

Be warned. if your steering is stiff get it sorted.

I will never be using non main dealer suspension arms on my cars again.

Right, i need a stiff drink.

DanG

Kieran
14-01-2008, 11:01 PM
Jesus Christ..... Glad you're okay. Yes, go get yourself a wee Dram!

When you're feeling a little less shaken up (perhaps not now!!!) It might be worth reporting this to Camskill.... There's been concerns over the quality of these arms before.:inquisiti

peter thomson
14-01-2008, 11:02 PM
Bloody hell Dan .Glad to hear your OK .Could have been a lot worse if it had happened at speed. Has the wing been damaged ?

Davezj
14-01-2008, 11:09 PM
oh my god!

glad you are ok,
so it was the actual shaft that comes out of the ball joint and attaches to the hub carrier that snapt or was it the actual arm by the ball joint. thats an odd one. i have never heard of that before and from the sound of it i never want to here of it again.
How long did you have the lower arms fitted on you car. are they still under 1 year garentee.

i say again i am glad you are ok, you must have been shaken up.

TAR
14-01-2008, 11:24 PM
So glad you are OK.

Once you have recovered from the shock, get an independent engineers report on the damage so you have all the evidence required to make an informed decision on where to lay the blame.

I do hope you get it sorted quickly and without too much hassle.

Nick Mann
14-01-2008, 11:24 PM
Feck.

Bad news. The end of your story could have been much worse. I guess you don't feel lucky at the moment, but you should probably consider yourself as such!

Hope you get it all sorted relatively painlessly.

Dan_G
14-01-2008, 11:46 PM
The arm has been on the car for less than 3000 miles, and has been stiff since fitting.

I was already going to order new arms from mitsu this week as i was not happy with them, guess i was'nt quick enough.

the wing is slightly bent where the wheel has hit it.. the inner plastic wheel arch was ripped off and the wheel hit the bulkhead€ and bent the seam... think the lower part of the bodykit is slightly damaged too.

suppose i could get an independant engineer report, but I'm pretty sure i know the cause of the failure already. I hope I remmember enough of my Metallurgy & materials course to i.d. the mode of failure... (the mode was what us engineers call a bad mode, :D)

the bit that failed was the shaft that joins to the hub carrier right after the ball before the tappered section and threads.

and I do feel VERY lucky.. and because of that I am not overly worked up about the damage...

Dan

Physician
14-01-2008, 11:57 PM
Gawd Dan ........ you are SOOOOO lucky it wasn't at high speed - thank god it went at that moment and that you are OK pal.

Nick Mann
15-01-2008, 12:29 AM
So can you see the striations from the fatigue? I guess that is something that will leave no doubt.

I'd keep the bits until you have a satisfactory claim. If you don't, I know some people with a SEM.......

Dan_G
15-01-2008, 12:56 AM
So can you see the striations from the fatigue? I guess that is something that will leave no doubt.

I'd keep the bits until you have a satisfactory claim. If you don't, I know some people with a SEM.......

:P...

dont think i want to make a claim... they'll probly write the car off its worth so little!...

and as for striations... i'm not so sure i will see them even it was'nt dark and i had my glasses on!.. i certainly will need that electron microscope...

its definatley broken, and went with a bang.... its a shear dissapointment... not good crack at all...

i'm actually really upset... i'm now off to cry myself to sleep... /Grrr

Subaru ETA
15-01-2008, 07:11 AM
bloody hell you are lucky mate!

my mate had the same thing happen on hhis altezza. it came apart on the motorway!!! luckly he was in the slow lane and nothing bad happened.

the scary thing was, i service it the week before and check everything and it was ok. and then went for a wof a couple of pays before i happened and they were ok. he event saw them check them!

Beastlee
15-01-2008, 09:42 AM
Sorry to hear about this, let Camskill know ASAP and hoprfully they will have enough sense to hold off selling any more before the matter is resolved.

Eurospec
15-01-2008, 10:22 AM
Holy cow! Having seen a very similar failure to this on a VR4 in the last week, and having fitted quite a few of these arms ourselves i took the liberty of speaking to Mike at Camskill about this issue this morning.

We have used Camskill lower arms with no issues reported for some time, i was actually quite surprised to see people suggesting they were maybe not up to scratch. Mike is 100% sure that they are identical to OE lower arms, and is after our conversation this morning going to get a set of genuine OE arms so that he can a) offer those for sale and b) see if there is any difference or not. He also said he has never had any problems with the arms, save for one that squeaked reported to them in all the time that they have sold them.

He said he would post up any pictures he gets too whether different or not.

Meantime, to any of our customers who have camskill lower arms fitted by us, we will swap the arms to OE for the price of the arms only (ie no labour charge) if they would like.

Cheers,

Ben.

Nutter_John
15-01-2008, 11:22 AM
Top notch offer there Ben

bernmc
15-01-2008, 02:53 PM
mmm. Glad you're ok, Dan. Gingernut, Yokel Boy and I have been crowing on about non-mitsi arms for a while now, but I don't think any of us expected such a catastrophic failure.

I think this should be stickied. If I've got time, and remember to do it, I'll link the other discussions to this thread (or perhaps one of the committee jonnies could do it?).

ANTHONY
15-01-2008, 04:32 PM
just to clear things up, is this offer?


Meantime, to any of our customers who have camskill lower arms fitted by us, we will swap the arms to OE for the price of the arms only (ie no labour charge) if they would like.

from Eurospec or camskill?



also are these the same arms that are fitted on the recall

stuey
15-01-2008, 05:17 PM
glad to hear you're ok, due to the slow speed, bugger about the damage, someone should be held liable, a suspension part should not fail in less than 3000 miles !!
I'm about to get one side of mine changed next week and price wise was tempted to with camskill part, but ordered a genuine one last friday.

Eurospec
15-01-2008, 05:18 PM
just to clear thing up is this offer


Meantime, to any of our customers who have camskill lower arms fitted by us, we will swap the arms to OE for the price of the arms only (ie no labour charge) if they would like.

from Eurospec or camskill



also are these the same arms that are fitted on the recall

Hi Tony,

We are offering to any of our customers that have had Camskill Arms fitted by us, that we will fit OE arms for the price of the arms.

Basically we take stuff like this seriously and we know it worries customers so we called camskill ourselves (well i did!) and told them about this failure, plus one which was recovered to us last week with a very similar failure (it had ripped the ball joint out of the nut).

Having spoken to Mike at length this morning he is confident that the arms they supply are fine, but he is going to check them out and will tell us the results of what he finds. We've worked with Camskill for years and they are a good bunch. If he says he will, i'm sure he will.

Since i know we have done quite a few sets recently, i thought we should offer to switch them for people if they were worried.

The arms originally fitted by Mitsu at the factory are the ones that are the subject of the recall and it is this same lower straight arm.

Cheers,

Ben.

ANTHONY
15-01-2008, 05:59 PM
cheers Ben

psbarham
16-01-2008, 12:07 AM
He also said he has never had any problems with the arms, save for one that squeaked reported to them in all the time that they have sold them.



not digging at you ben so don't worry, btw cracking offer you have made there:afro: .

matey from camskill is talking complete and utter horlicks, i reported a pair with seized joints about 10 months ago, they seemed unwilling to help so i sorted it out my self with some oe dust seals and some grease nipples:pimp2: and so far they are acceptable, not perfect by anyway but for the little use it gets they will do for the mo. if matey says other wise i have all the e-mails somewhere about it.

Dan_G
16-01-2008, 01:00 AM
Hey guys,

glad this has been taken seriously.

I took the front end apart this evening and to my astonishment the damage is not that great. The lower arm obviously failed, the curved arm rubber bush has been ripped apart and i think the upper wishbone arm has been bent at the ball joint.

bodywork wise .. managed to push the wing back into shape by hand (thin panels are good for something) and the inner plastic wheel arch should go back into shape with a heat gun..

luckly i have a new driveshaft already as i was going to replace it after i bought new lower arms... only i did'nt intend on removing the old drive shaft quite in that manner...

I intend on posting photos of the bits when i charge my camera.

Dan

orionn2o
16-01-2008, 03:53 PM
How did you bend the wing back out of interest mate?

Dan_G
16-01-2008, 09:26 PM
How did you bend the wing back out of interest mate?

literally pushed it with my hands. not 100% perfect, but neer enough.. unfortunatley the door panel gap is not equal, but i'll undoo some bolt and see if i can get any play to realign.

photo's of broken ball joint. some parts of the crack dont look new and in some places there is quite old rust... I'm curious to get the other side off now.

peter thomson
16-01-2008, 09:34 PM
Never seen a balljoint shear like that. Seen a few that have pulled out of the socket but never that .I remember a story about somebody in a forward control Landy thay had just been in for it's MOT and had one of the steering balljoints failed shortly afterwards in a similar way but they were not as lucky as you Dan. It passed the MOT because there was no movement but was seized possibly in a similar way to yours.

The Vee
16-01-2008, 09:51 PM
Dreadfull. So glad that it was not a different tale to tell. Take it the ball was seized in its socket causing the pin to twist and snap eventually. I believe that is exactly Mitsi's recall - water ingress causing the ball to seize through faulty seals/boots. Hope you get all sorted soon.

White Lightning
16-01-2008, 09:51 PM
Thanks for posting this up Dan and I am really glad to hear you are OK.

This is precisely the reason that my car is currently off the road awaiting a replacement dust cover for my upper arm. I could have purchased a complete aftermarket arm from Camskill for not much money and got the car back on the road sooner but I had read comments on here about the lower arms being suspect and given that I am actually track my car sometimes I was actually not prepared to take the risk.

I, for one, will be sticking with Mitsi parts ...

glover
01-02-2008, 03:00 PM
Damn, just got back from the mot station to be told my v6 failed on excessive play in the front offside ball joint. Was just about to phone camskill (mitsi want £150 + for the arm) when I saw this!.

Anyone got any more up to date info? Have camskill compared the arms?.

From what i have read on the site re this issue the original recall was due to water ingress into the joint causing failure due to the seals not being correct.

I have checked with mitsi and as far as they are concerned my 2001 v6 has no outstanding recall notices.

Do the replacement arms from camskill cure the problem of the seal not being adequate? if not am I just getting a cheapo arm thats going to fail again sometime in the future.

Your input and advice would be appreciated as The car is out of mot soon.

I take it we are talking about this one........

http://www.camskill.co.uk/products.php?plid=m22b0s1403p7603

jayjay99
11-07-2008, 12:28 AM
......Anyone got any more up to date info? Have camskill compared the arms?.......



Unfortunatly it seems there is still an issue!

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32850

MarkSanne
12-07-2008, 07:28 PM
Indeed and I've read no bad reports on the original (improved) Mitsu arms, so why choose the camskill ones at all? The arm I got replaced a few weeks ago was 155 euro, the camskill one is 111 euro, alright, sure, just over 40 euro difference, but seeing all these problems I'd never think twice.

jayjay99
13-07-2008, 01:27 AM
If that was the case then there would be no choice at all but I think over here you are looking at I think nearly £200 difference for a pair which is why everyone goes for Camskill. But I'm going for original regardless, both my new one and the one on the other side are starting to creak like hell! Where did you get your original arms from? Just a regular mitsi garage in holland?

MarkSanne
13-07-2008, 07:24 AM
Yes I did, but a Mitsu mechanic friend bought it for me, so he must have have some discount on it. I'll ask him what the 'regular' price is so comparing is more honest.

rees
19-07-2008, 09:40 PM
im not a great fan of buying OE part ,especially from dealers but f*** it ,ill pay an extra 100 quid if it means i dont die!

peter thomson
20-08-2009, 11:12 PM
Looks as if Camskill have finally seen the light. They now have OE arms listed rather than copies

http://www.camskill.co.uk/products.php?plid=m22b0s1403p7603

White Lightning
21-08-2009, 07:16 AM
That's good news :)

Dom B
21-08-2009, 11:13 AM
Looking at the camskill website they seem to say that the arms are an oe part anyway. Does that mean they are manufactured by mitsibushi?

The problem with a lot of the aftermarket parts for sale in the world is that they are often made by small companies is that although they can be made to look the same as an oe part often the metallurgy is totally bypassed. I.e. a balljoint stud has to be forged for the strength with only a light turning operation and grind to make the dimensions correct. I have seen ball joints in the past just turned out of steel bar of unknown alloy. Just turning them out of bar cuts all the grain in the metal and although looks the same is often not 1/10th as strong and often prone to cracking.

Manufacturers spend millions fatigue testing and alloy testing whereas often small companies just weld something up with no real testing of heat affected zones or fatigue.

There was a high profile tuv investigation into a fatal crash in germany after a bmw lower aluminium suspension arm broke at high speed. The papers are available to look at online. The looked in great depth at the arm and it looked like the real macoy even with the bmw logo and part no on it. When they tested it in the lab it was found to be a cheap casting and not the genuine forged part. It turned out that somewhere in its life that a replacement part from one of these german/european car parts companies had been fitted. The part was of low quality with defects inside it and of an improper alloy but mostly a cast part is totally inappropriate in that sort of use. small companies often dont have the huge machinery needed to forge parts and do it with quality and repeatability.

Word of warning, only use cheap/handmade parts on low stressed non safety critical parts. Oe parts are not expensive just to make profits they reflect the research and work that goes into the quality and safety.

White Lightning
21-08-2009, 01:01 PM
Looking at the camskill website they seem to say that the arms are an oe part anyway. Does that mean they are manufactured by mitsibushi?

Yes. These will be genuine Mitsi arms :)

MarkSanne
21-08-2009, 04:07 PM
OE = Original Equipment right?

peter thomson
21-08-2009, 05:18 PM
OE = Original Equipment right?

Yes that's correct Mark

craigo
09-10-2009, 12:57 PM
Just to say that i have had the noise issue with my lower arms, thanks to looking on this site i took the advice from you guys and stopped driving, so i didnt have any nasty accidents, But guess where i bought my lower arms from?. less than 12 months ago!!! CUMSPILL...i meant CAMSKUM erm you know who i mean !!! they def wont be getting a Xmas card from me. But you guys will for tyhe advance warning, Cheers guys (and dolls)

orionn2o
09-10-2009, 03:35 PM
Don't be too hasty to blame Camskill for the product as they are only the distributor.

If it is found to be faulty then talk to Mike there. He will in turn talk to his suppliers. Since my problem he has been very honest and a good contact. Although my issues are still unresolved at this moment.

dave-at-home
09-10-2009, 04:31 PM
Always a tricky subject! Dom B was spot on in his post back in August. The OE manufacturers and their supply base spend a vast amount of time and money ensuring that their products are safe above and beyond their intended use (with respect to environment - loads etc). It is very easy for an aftermarket agent to take one of the OE parts and faithfully reproduce the outline product - that is the cosmetics and the key fitment details (in the Ball Joints case its taper, gauge diameter, thread etc). What can be overlooked - often with dire consequences is the real detail; material conditions (not just the surface hardness), durability capacity, sealability performance etc all of which can have a seriously adverse effect on longevity of a product. Where an item is "safety critical" then ther can be serious repercussions!

My advice: for key compoents / assemblies (inc steering - suspension - transmission - braking etc) stick to the OE part or second best to parts that are manufactured by reputable companies that do supply the same genre of product for an the OE market (although they might not supply that exact same part). It might be a bit more costly in the outset but what value do you put on your life and the life of others.

Sermon over!

psbarham
09-10-2009, 06:21 PM
Don't be too hasty to blame Camskill for the product as they are only the distributor.

If it is found to be faulty then talk to Mike there. He will in turn talk to his suppliers. Since my problem he has been very honest and a good contact. Although my issues are still unresolved at this moment.

That's good going, I'm still awaiting a satisfactory response after 2 yrs, in my mind they are a sh!tty company with no regards to customer service

orionn2o
09-10-2009, 08:29 PM
Well paul we'll see. I may hear nothing back forever!

I should really chase him, hmmm job for tomorrow!

raph
29-01-2010, 09:50 PM
This is very serious.

On the way home from work this evening turning right off the main A90 road in rush hour to head down to newburgh down the A975.

Had complete failure of the ball joint ( the metal below the tapered shaft snapped) on the lower arm on ther drivers side.

This caused the wheel to pivot on the upper (boomerang shaped) arm and swing the complete wheel around into the wheel arch.. this then ripped the inner CV joint from the transmission, so i lost drive and steering.

I was only doing 10mph and somehow manged to drive fwd enough to clear the oncoming 60mph traffic (before the inner cv joint came out i guess)

i managed to jack the car up, remove the wheel then tie the lower arm to the hub with rope so i could get it onto the reovery truck.

i am currently very tired and very very p!ssed off.... this story could have very easily ended so much worse....

I just could not live with myself i did not post this warning and someone else has the same happen. this happening with increase speed and in different circumstances does not bear thinking about.

I believe the ball joint was overly tight/stiff in its socket and the torque from the steering has eventually, through fatigue stress, cause catastrophic failure.

Be warned. if your steering is stiff get it sorted.

I will never be using non main dealer suspension arms on my cars again.

Right, i need a stiff drink.

DanG


just reading this ..havent read the whole thread but i feel i have important info.

Did you all now that mitsubishi usa did a recal in 1996 (tll this day) and this affects not only the galant (93 onwards till i dunno) and the mitsubishi eclipse gs,gst,gsx awd and spyder(same front suspension) and eagle talon esi,tsi,tsi awd, chrysler sebring rs,esi,dodge avenger esi,sebring cabriolet, etc etc

The problem was that the lower armns werent mounted properly in the factory and water built up in the lower balljoint boot..causing the joint to rust and get stiff/snap off

Mitsbishi germany asked their dealers to look they did a recall too, (austria also) and they came to the conclusion that cars with sport suspensions and larger 17"wheels (17" was an option) suffered more .. rubbish as they swapped each pair anyway..

i had mine done too..

what i did was checked them priodically fr excessive play and stiffness,noise etc ..and bought a new set every two years (they are dirt cheap and changed all 4 lower arms 3 times during ownership -overkill yeah.)

Symptoms for a bad lower ball joint is a popping/groaning noise on low speed turns or when parking,moving around a parking lot etc .

Lots of other cars suffer from separting ball joints .. especially larger heavier cars,ball joints are service items that wear.. like tyres and brakes..but are often neglected.


BOTTOM LINE : THERE WAS A RECALL. BALLJOINTS WEAR,AFTERMARKET ARMS ARE JUST AS BAD/GOOD (LOL) .

- AND THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS CAN ARISE DURING FITTING WHEN THE BALLJOINT ARE NOT FITTED ALL THE WAY INTO THE NUCKLE..when the shaft wasnt not fitted flush/boot damaged during fitting/boot slipped ,etc and water seeps in and cannot escape..it will rust,get stiff and snap off!

And thats the real story behind the lower ball joints.Yes ,heavier wheels can promote wear..but so does flying thru potholes etc..

And..ost of the cars here are ver 11 years old..check your balljoints

peter thomson
30-01-2010, 12:32 AM
Yes most of us have checked the recall status and had new arms fitted foc if the recall has not been carried out.

-blade-
12-06-2011, 10:03 AM
Post back from the past..............

ok, so my balljoint started the dreaded groaning yesterday. has anyone RECENT experience of Camskill lateral arms? are they definite Mitsi parts? the price of aftermarket parts are appealing, but NOT the certain sudden failures or frequent replacement they cause. need to order a set tomorrow for el rapido delivery as i need the car in use.
PS - what grease have you guys been using?

cheers

horndog
12-06-2011, 10:27 AM
I cant comment on the Camskill ones but Wodjno has some OE for sale
http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?57340-2-x-Mitsubishi-Original-Lateral-Suspension-Arms(1x-OS-amp-1x-NS)-Lower-Straight-Arms

TAR
12-06-2011, 10:31 AM
Camskill are a reputable company, and I think they changed their supplier after this happened. I would call them to ask if the arms are genuine Mitsi.

:happy:

-blade-
12-06-2011, 10:35 AM
Camskill are a reputable company, and I think they changed their supplier after this happened. I would call them to ask if the arms are genuine Mitsi.

:happy:

yes mate id call them anyway, but some previous posts in this thread indicated the term 'OE' may have been used in a way to mean mitsi, when in fact it meant 'not mitsi' lol. ive ordered parts before labelled 'OE' for them to arrive and find they werent OE at all, and in this case i cant afford the extra days delay....

aboo
12-06-2011, 10:57 AM
Contact Glenn. I bought a set off him recently/yes They are OE arms & cheaper than mitsy & camskill.