Help / advice on wiring a passive crossover

[HMG1K]

I'd really appreciate your help and advice on installing a passive crossover to my front speakers. :happy:

What I'm doing is upgrading the standard door speakers and the tweeters in the little triangle on the corner of the door window.

Here's what I want to 'belt and brace' - the tweeters, Kenwood HQ15, come with passive crossovers.

I've sussed that the one end of the wires plug into the tweeters (red to red, black to black)... But the other end are bare wires. Am I right in thinking the black wire is bound together with the black wire of the speaker and a new terminal connector is crimped on the end and re-attached to the negative terminal (and the same with the red wire)... Or is the tweeter's black wire spliced anywhere along the black wire of the main speaker (and the same with the red...?

Sorry for sounding dumb - and confused - /pan and thank you in advance! :iloveyou:

[Roberto]

Ok, what you posted did not make sence to me, but then again I'm on a night shift.

What it looks like you have bought is a set of component tweeters, only.
These are really designed to be powered by an amp on thier own and not split into your existing wiring.

If you must, you should take a pair of wires from the existing speaker and sent these to the crossover, with the right polarity, it will be marked on the back of the speaker and then on to the tweeter.

But to be honest you would be better advised to return these and get a proper component set, woofer and tweeter, as the standard speaker is of no use.

[HMG1K]

Me too - on a night shift... sorry for the confusion... I get what you say though.

I was going to wire all the speakers (the x2 front and x2 rear) to an amp...

I understand the bit you say "If you must, you should take a pair of wires from the existing speaker and sent these to the crossover, with the right polarity, it will be marked on the back of the speaker and then on to the tweeter."

But then where are the wires back to the amp for the speakers or to the head unit..?

Thanks in advance!

[Roberto]

Ok, so if you are going to use amps for the front and rear speakers, here is what I would do.

If you want to use the new tweeters you got properly, you are going to have to run wires for them and the woofers back to the amps, but this is not woth doing unless you are going to change the main speaker to a proper woofer.
And use a 4 channel amp just for the front doors, a channel each for the tweeters and woofers for each door.
A bit of a waste unless you really like your sound and are going to put a really nice system in, with new woofers.

For a simple solution again a set of standard componets through either a 2 channel amp just for the fronts, or as I have done. One 4 channel amp, 2 running the fronts and 2 running the rears, and then a Sub amp with 12inch sub.

I have a set of Sony componets in the front doors with the combined crossover in the passenger compartment rather than the doors.

[HMG1K]

Sorry for any confusion in my first post - I was midway through an overnight shift at work.

The speakers I'm using are 3-way Pioneers (non-component) and Kenwood component tweeters which come supplied with their own passive crossovers.

My confusion is on my last car I had 2-way Pioneer speakers and Kenwood component tweeters (which I bought) - the difference was I had to also buy the passive crossovers and the crossover came with an Output terminal and ones for a woofer and a tweeter (see below image). I attached the speaker to these terminals and then took a speaker wire from the Input terminal back to the amp and all was fine. These new Kenwood tweeters with supplied crossovers have one cable in and one cable out, both fixed - so how do I take it back to the amp..?

Also I can't see any crossovers behind the door card on my 8G Galant - the wires seem to be attached together between the speakers and the tweeters and then wrapped in insulating tape (I've checked and its factory fit kit I've currently got.

Below are images - one of the Eclipse 8041 '12db Octabe Passive Network' which I had on my last car - and the other of the Kenwood crossover. Kenwood's instructions say NOT to use any other crossover, other than the supplied units.

[HMG1K]

And attached is the fitting instructions for the new Kenwood tweeters. :iloveyou:

[Turbo_Steve]

Much as I agree with what Roberto is saying, it could potentially be overkill :)

I don't know your car specifically, but I am assuming the woofers and tweeters are both in the door, as per the 8G.

With the woofer, you do not need a crossover. It's 'better' to have one, in terms of frequency control etc (like your Eclipses had) but it isn't neccesary: the Kenood woofer you have is likely to have a natural roll-off at a specific frequency inherent in it's design...a whopping great 600mm paper cone can't move back and forth 200,000times a second. As the kenwood tweeters are 'matched' to these woofers, the crossover you have supplied simply goes inline with the tweeters and cuts off any frequencies that are already handled by the woofers, and permits any that the woofer already can't handle. The tweeters will be tested to "not blow up" within this range.

Running too low a frequency through the tweeter is likely to cook it...hence kenwoods insistance on not using any other crossover.

So, to install it:
Connect one tweeter to the crossover (out of the car) and then connect the crossover to the wiring at the back of the door woofer. Play some music. Is the tweeter tweeting? Yes? Good. Then that's all you need to do when you install it: Fit the kenwood woofer, and "Piggyback" the tweeter from the back of it.


If you want the wiring tidier, then try connecting the crossover to the existing tweeter wires. If it's quieter than from the back of to woofer, then ignore them....there's a crossover hidden somewhere.


Chances are, however, that the factory tweeters have their own inbuilt high-pass crossover (probably a .22uF capacitor) in the back of them. It's only tiny so can be easily hidden.

[Nick Mann]

The problem with just a capacitor to eliminate low frequencies is that you get a phase change. (90 degrees, IIRC?)

A proper crossover splits the signals without changing the phase, so your speakers are all moving the right way at the right time.

I'd go with the wiring diagram on the Kenwood speaker. To my untrained mind, the crossover they have supplied would be better described as a filter - there is no output for the lower frequencies, which is what you'd expect - as per your picture earlier in the thread. But the filter they have supplied appears to be big enough to be a lot more than just a capacitor. That should mean it is better than the standard filter which will almost certainly be just a capacitor, as Steve said. My guess is the Kenwood filter solves the problem of the phase change.

[HMG1K]

Nice one folks! Thank you so much! It's all so much clearer in my head now with the wiring of these and how to do it... Really appreciate all your help! :happy:

[Turbo_Steve]

Nick, a capacitor will induce more phase change the larger it is, and the lower the frequency you measure at. It usually isn't considered too much of an issue with tweeters, as the frequencies are so high, and the environment in a car so audio unfriendly (different distance from ear to tweeter each side) that the phasing is less obvious than at lower frequencies. Saying that, yes, I'd prefer an inductive crossover, however as always with audio, it's the law of diminishing returns..you can spend a lot more, but the benefits become more and more marginal.
An interesting experiment you can try with your tweeters is inverting the phase on just one of them. It significantly deepens the soundstage, but doesn't damage the stereo imagery. This only works in the car, however: try it in your house, and it just sounds muddled. It doesn't always work in the car, either, it's something to do with the windscreen shape.

And yes, that Kenwood high-pass is mahoosive! :D Looks like there's an entire Maplins worth of capacitors in there.

[Nick Mann]

Thanks Steve! Always good to add info to the little bit I nearly have.

[stuey]

just sounds like a confusion between passive crossovers, and high/low pass filters.

You probably could use your existing crossovers, but you'd need to check out the frequency Crossover's points for the ones you have, and for the Tweeters frequency operating specs.

[HMG1K]

Thanks Stuey, Nick, Turbo_Steve and Roberto!

My haze is a clear day now! You know how it gets if you try to suss something out too much!

I'm going to stick with the supplied Kenwood crossovers... just to be on the safe side !

Really appreciate all your input!