PDA

View Full Version : Most useful gauges to have in a VR4



Nice But
03-02-2008, 08:14 PM
Now that the bug is deep rooted in my bones for giving my Leggy more oof, and more of a stealth car than it is. Another question........

What are the 3 or 4 most useful guages to fit?

I'm thinking:

Boost guage on the pillar
Oil temp
Oil pressure
Water temp

Now I don't profess to know anything about turbo cars, as a lot has changed since my last (non diesel) turbo car. I'm looking to try to get 300hp at the flywheel, so I'm thinking zorst, boost controller, fuel pump (maybe) to reach this. I want reliability and a bit more ummph..... to frighten the other "performance" car owners. Take as read the braking and boingies will be done first. As it will be my daily driver I don't want to go insane.

A post to scratch the collective knowledge:scholar: .

Cheers

bradc
03-02-2008, 08:46 PM
yeah those are all important, EGT gauges are important too

White Lightning
03-02-2008, 08:48 PM
I have got boost, oil temp and oil pressure ... if I added another it would probably be an AFR gauge.

Nutter_John
03-02-2008, 09:00 PM
knock link and afr guage , boost , oil , water , oil p , egt

psbarham
03-02-2008, 09:21 PM
fuel gauge /lol

Davezj
03-02-2008, 09:45 PM
is egt = exhaust gas temp?

why would you want another water temp gauge when there is one on the dash already?

i didn't think the AFR gauges were very good, are there some reliable ones out there?

Turbo_Steve
03-02-2008, 09:50 PM
Depends what you're going to do.
Essential, and should have been fitted from the factory:
Oil Pressure
Boost Gauge (a brilliant diagnostic tool)

Oil Temperature can be useful on a track day, but less so on the road: When the engine is cold, you can see from the oil pressure gauge: you'll also see when it's up to temperature. It will also indicate when your oil is breaking down, as pressure will start to roll off.


Water temp...not really that keen: the dashboard gauge generally has 3 settings....cold, running temp, danger. To be honest, this is all you're likely to want from a gauge anyway, though a beepy warning from an aftermarket item is useful. When I've fitted them, they go in the glovebox: heard and not seen.
Oil temp will usually warn you before water temp becomes an issue

Tuning:
AFR...essential...but only if it's a proper wideband setup: anything else is just flashy lights.
EGTs....less essential if you are measuring AFR, but really useful nonetheless: best if it has a programmable warning.
Knock detection is an engine saver, and darn near essential if you're going anywhere past the point of fuel cut or remapping, or playing with the

If someone else is tuning:
Oil Pressure and Temp as above. On a decent setup should never knock unless there is a problem, and should have some knock correction built in too, and it shouldn't run too hot either. A boost gauge with warning is useful, for driving as well as diagnostics. I reccomend fitting a single knock LED somewhere prominent, it's cheap to do (I belive autospeed did a kit!) and lets you know if there IS a problem. It should never come on if all is well.

Davezj
03-02-2008, 09:55 PM
nice bit of info steve cheers

Turbo_Steve
03-02-2008, 10:00 PM
Hey, it's all just my opinion, but I've had just about all of them at various times on various cars, and I know what I used and when.

Nice But
03-02-2008, 10:22 PM
Steve

Thanks for the info Bud. As I state I'm new to turbo's in this day and age and a lot of the 'wideband' 'AFR' stuff goes woosh over my grey hair.....:inquisiti I will be looking at 300hp max so from your info the best would be:


Boost
Oil Pressure
Oil Temp
and An other

I'm looking at a 3 pod memory guage set up below the stereo and the boost guage on the pillar. Boost controller will be somewhere else.

Kieran
03-02-2008, 11:40 PM
If you have an auto and plan on towing, increasing power or 'tracking' the car, a transmission temperature guage may be useful.

Nice But
03-02-2008, 11:51 PM
/Hmmm /Hmmm I won't be towing but tracking is definately on the cards, I suppose an oil temp guage, using a sensor fitted in the trans somewhere woild do it. Or does someone make a tranny temp guage?

Nick Mann
03-02-2008, 11:55 PM
Or just fit an additional trans cooler and then don't worry.

I would fit oil temp/pressure, AFR (with a proper wideband) and boost.

Davezj
04-02-2008, 12:28 AM
trasmission temp gauge now where would you fit that. i presume it would be before the standard cooler. to see how streesed it is at the max temp the trans would put out. Even with an extra cooler the inital out put of the trans oil would still be very hot under stressed condition and it would be the extra cooler that would cool it down and the original cooler would bring the oil back up to the correct temp.
I think.

Turbo_Steve
04-02-2008, 01:36 AM
Agree with that sentiment (trans cooler). I might still be tempted to fit a gauge, though :D Or better still, again, just a warning light.

Nicey, I'd start another thread about wideband AFR if I was you....long discussion to be had there, I am sure.


At the risk of being controversial......Gauges are a bit "race car" for me in the Legnum, which is more "Luxury" to my mind.
So I started looking at alternatives to turning my dashboard into the fast and the furious. As I need a boost controller, boost gauge, wideband AFR, EGT, and oil pressure, I was looking at one of these:

http://www.amber-performance.co.uk/info.php?i=247

They don't do everything I want (at least not at once) but it will wrap up most of it in one package. Now, yes, they are expensive, but once you start looking at prices for 4 gauges AND a boost controller AND all the work of mounting said gauges, pods, painting etc, they start to look pretty economical.

Especially as all the gauges that match the VR-4 dash a PRICEY!

I already have plenty of Defi BFs waiting to go in this or the EVO, and I think they will probably end up in the Evo, and something like this in the leggy. I can't see anywhere on the leggy dashboard that I think they'd look nice (bear in mind this is wifes car not mine) and the SBC has a USB port...so when she comes home and says "It beeped at me and turned the boost down" I can go in using the laptop and have a look why, as opposed to a gauge which will beep and beep but relies on the driver to sort the problem out.

bradc
04-02-2008, 08:28 AM
What I personally want is an LCD type thing that can accept multiple inputs and display them all at once, kind of like on a Skyline GT-R

You could always make your own section for the bottom half of the dash that covers the sunglasses holder, ciggie lighter and ash tray and mount various gauges or an SAFC in there. I reckon you could fit in 5 gauges, 3 along the top and 2 further down. 'thehedgepig' has done this on his car with an AVC-R and an SAFC.

Nice But
04-02-2008, 12:10 PM
Steve

I'm liking that a lot, I remember reading a thread on here somewhere /pan and that was a multifunction guage, that would read whatever you connected to it, had 10 inputs IIRC....... that was mega bucks as well but as you say if your forking out for all the bits it would balance out.

I'll have a search and see if I can find....... they're american I think.

Edit: PLX gauges/controllers (http://www.plxdevices.com/products/dm200/) one guage set up to do boost/oil temp/oil pressure/afr for 750 bucks...... so about £370 + shipping. Mmmmmm I'm liking this idea, one 60mm guage low down on the pillar

Davezj
04-02-2008, 09:44 PM
Agree with that sentiment (trans cooler). I might still be tempted to fit a gauge, though :D Or better still, again, just a warning light.

Nicey, I'd start another thread about wideband AFR if I was you....long discussion to be had there, I am sure.


At the risk of being controversial......Gauges are a bit "race car" for me in the Legnum, which is more "Luxury" to my mind.
So I started looking at alternatives to turning my dashboard into the fast and the furious. As I need a boost controller, boost gauge, wideband AFR, EGT, and oil pressure, I was looking at one of these:

http://www.amber-performance.co.uk/info.php?i=247

They don't do everything I want (at least not at once) but it will wrap up most of it in one package. Now, yes, they are expensive, but once you start looking at prices for 4 gauges AND a boost controller AND all the work of mounting said gauges, pods, painting etc, they start to look pretty economical.

Especially as all the gauges that match the VR-4 dash a PRICEY!

I already have plenty of Defi BFs waiting to go in this or the EVO, and I think they will probably end up in the Evo, and something like this in the leggy. I can't see anywhere on the leggy dashboard that I think they'd look nice (bear in mind this is wifes car not mine) and the SBC has a USB port...so when she comes home and says "It beeped at me and turned the boost down" I can go in using the laptop and have a look why, as opposed to a gauge which will beep and beep but relies on the driver to sort the problem out.

just out of interest does anyone know if the auto trans operate in the same temp range as the engine, i would have thought the auto trans would operate at a lower temp than the engine does. so would the auto trans temp even register on a standard oil temp gauge.
which is hotter water temp or oil? as you could plumb in a water temp gauge to measure auto trans if water is cooler than oil.

Turbo_Steve
04-02-2008, 10:43 PM
What I really want is something that fits in the space the clock is in, that displays all these things in colour, has remote buttons (so they can be down on the steering wheel) and...the hard part....HAS A CLOCK IN IT!

It annoys me: DVD Player...has a clock. Car Stereo: clock. Cooker: Clock. Microwave: Clock. Telly: Clock. In fact it's virtually impossible to buy electronics without a clock!
Find a really nice multifunction display for the car that fits in the clock aperture.......no clock! GRRRR!!!!

DaveZj.....A regular engine oil temp gauge in the range 40 - 200degC should be fine. Not sure if it's worth it, though.

Davezj
04-02-2008, 11:01 PM
What I really want is something that fits in the space the clock is in, that displays all these things in colour, has remote buttons (so they can be down on the steering wheel) and...the hard part....HAS A CLOCK IN IT!

It annoys me: DVD Player...has a clock. Car Stereo: clock. Cooker: Clock. Microwave: Clock. Telly: Clock. In fact it's virtually impossible to buy electronics without a clock!
Find a really nice multifunction display for the car that fits in the clock aperture.......no clock! GRRRR!!!!

DaveZj.....A regular engine oil temp gauge in the range 40 - 200degC should be fine. Not sure if it's worth it, though.

i saw a couple of gauges one went up to 120 and one up to 150 i asume the 120 one is water and the 150 one is oil. would this seem about right.

Nice But
05-02-2008, 12:32 AM
The PLX kit is lush, just not sure it's worth putting on an 11 year old car that is my daily cruise.......... and the odd track day bitch.

Mmmmm, knowing me I'll get it, transferable though. The clock spot would be brilliant for all that is needed.........

I shouldn't be thinking at this time of night /pan

CANDEE
05-02-2008, 02:25 AM
Get some blox gauges :P

Davezj
05-02-2008, 02:26 PM
where are they mounted is it you car or it just a stock picture.

Turbo_Steve
05-02-2008, 02:43 PM
Dave, I'd get the 150 regardless: you may want to use it for something else later, and you don't really need it all that accurate.

Davezj
05-02-2008, 02:48 PM
that is what i have gone for 2 x 150 oil temp and 1x oil pressure.

pitslayer
05-02-2008, 09:30 PM
i like the defis myself, not cheap. but as im putting a car puter in, might see if i can find a diagnostic program that will hook into the ecu and do it all for me

Turbo_Steve
05-02-2008, 09:55 PM
I love the Defis.....got lots....but....those PLX's do look pretty sweet.
I watched the you tube videos and needed a moment to myself.
If you can take off the horrid round bezels and put a pair of 52mm ones into the clock aperture on the VR-4....that's a total winner! It's just that...THEY DON'T HAVE A CLOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

miller
05-02-2008, 10:13 PM
what about the heads up display?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qCJR8oLAJJs&feature=related

Turbo_Steve
06-02-2008, 05:26 PM
Used it. Didn't like it: felt it should do a lot more (see Defi Display). The Blitz still looks like the most economical compromise to me....okay, it looks a bit pants glued above the stereo, but it's got alerts, monitors several channels AND includes boost control.
It boils down to working out what you need to know:
I want oil pressure and boost to start with, and EGTs and AFR later. Combine it with a knock indicator, and that should be sufficient unless you're planning to change turbos. Event then, I'd probably only consider more gauges if this was to be a serious track car or I'd opened the engine (baffled sump, uprated rotating mass). Fuel pressure would be my only other temptation, but frankly AFRs should cover that.

Eurospec
06-02-2008, 08:45 PM
If you are gonna tune it i would get Wideband afr, EGT preferably, Boost and some knock detection.

If you are gonna track it, ie like track days etc, oil temp and pressure.

Defi is excellent, and plx will cover off most of what you want, and the sexy 1 guage multi sensor doofer that does multiple displays is the bollox, i did one of those into an fto about 6 weeks or so ago and it was nice!

Hope that helps,

Cheers,

Ben.

MarkSanne
06-02-2008, 09:14 PM
1. oil temps (takes many, many minutes of normal driving before the oil is at a good temperature so both engine and turbo's are lubricated sufficient)

2. oil pressure

3. turbo boost

any other are only needed when you heavily changed stuff, or if more standard/moderately tuned when you want to know your values are safe/good. but then... you probably won't be using those much.

Turbo_Steve
06-02-2008, 09:30 PM
Mark, oil operating temp can be read from pressure gauge if correctly fitted. Oil temp gauge only has the additional benefit of warning you when you're cooking your oil: - this is why production sportscars will always opt for an oil pressure gauge before an oil temp gauge.

In normal driving (away from a track) if you're overheating your oil you'll see the pressure drop further than usual. If you're on a track (and so the pump is working hard) then oil pressure should stay constant, and THEN you need oil temps, though most oil pumps will start to become less effective as the oil thins, resulting in a pressure drop warning you that there is a problem: you'll usually see the pressure start to increase and then suddenly drop.

MarkSanne
06-02-2008, 09:58 PM
didn't know that Steve! thanks for the insight.

what I usually see on my oilpressure gauge is when the engine is cold the gauge is at maximum for a while. when driving for a longer period the gauge starts showing more 'normal' values. As I now understand it is around that point that the oil is getting on good temps, right? (never made the connection between those two oil gauges.... my bad!)

Nice But
07-02-2008, 01:27 AM
If you are gonna tune it i would get Wideband afr, EGT preferably, Boost and some knock detection.

If you are gonna track it, ie like track days etc, oil temp and pressure.

Defi is excellent, and plx will cover off most of what you want, and the sexy 1 guage multi sensor doofer that does multiple displays is the bollox, i did one of those into an fto about 6 weeks or so ago and it was nice!

Hope that helps,

Cheers,

Ben.

Thanks Ben

My initial plan is Custom 3" system/K&N filter/boost controller I'm looking to push the BHP up as far as I can without Fuel cut. That will probably do me until I've converted boingies/brakes to my ultimate set up of 330 disks and tein adjustables.

I like the look of the PLX set up........ one guage on the pillar/console job done.

:happy: it's only money /pan

bradc
07-02-2008, 06:50 AM
Mark, yep that is perfectly normal behaviour because the oil is still thick and the pump is trying really hard to move the oil around.

miller
23-03-2008, 01:17 PM
Interesting post, just purchased 52mm boost gauge, AFR gauge and Oil Temp gauge.

Now for the siting, i would love it on the right hand side of the dash in a three pod triangular setup with boost gauge on top, failing that its under the stereo, im not a fan of the pillar set up. too F&F for these cars.

0
00

This being the preferred mounting method. All within visible reach and not taking eyes too far away from the road. Has anyone done similar and got any pics? Is the standard pods available or is it generic like these and suffering them?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140215374308&ih=004&category=36681&_trksid=p3285.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DK%252BD%26otn%3D3%26p o%3DOp1%26ps%3D5


Mike

TAR
23-03-2008, 01:44 PM
Mike, that pod looks RUBBISH!

I'm sure you can get better mountings than that./pan

shaun1978
24-03-2008, 01:44 AM
Mike did you get these at your rolling road session , and how much were they if you dont mind me asking? I'll nip and get some if they are any good.

miller
24-03-2008, 10:55 AM
Got them off a GTOUK member not the garage, he originally got them from www.autogauge.co.uk. He changed his mind and got a different set. £20 a unit.

Cheers

Mike