Fog light switch wiring

[phosty]

I've just imported another VR4 (manual this time) and I'm preparing it for it's first MOT.

To avoid the foglight cutout in the rear bumper that I have on my old one I'm planning to wire up my tailgate brake lights as fog lights. To avoid any MOT testers getting funny about dual purpose bulbs I'm cutting the brake feed to the tailgate bulbs and feeding it a fog light feed. I'll still have the 3 rear brake lights (albeit at the loss of the 'Jap look').

Following an interesting Saturday dissassembling the rear boot area I found the point at which the tailgate brake feed splits into the tailgate feed, the rear pillar feed and the tailgate high position light - its in the loom running behind the drivers side rear arch underneath the little cubbyhole compartment (originally wrapped in insulating tape):

uploaded/4134/1202762734.jpg

The green double grey dot is the high position light. The other two wires are coded the same so make sure you trace them back to the pillar to make sure you cut the correct one.

Now I planned to take a feed from the front fog switch as I don't want an ugly aftermarket switch unit. However (and after 2 hrs trying to get the damn front vent/switch unit out), the front fog switch is a little more complicated than I was expecting. It has 6 wires going into it:

uploaded/4134/1202763119.jpg

The two lower wires (or the outer wires looking at the white connector) - black/yellow and green/silver are for the illumination - it varies from 3V -12V with the dimmer dial.

The two top right (blue and black) appear to switch on the sidelights - there is +12V on the blue when the sidelights are off at the steering wheel stalk. When these are connected in the switch or when the side lights are turned on via the steering wheel stalk +12V then appears on the pink. Shorting this against the other black (top left) switches on the front fogs - via the engine bay relay.

All these wires are thin low current types since they just seem to power relays - and thinner than the brake light feed to the tailgate.

If I connect the tailgate brake light feed to the top left black that is paired with the pink front fog +12V is there a danger of pulling to much current?

The two tailgate brake elements are 21W i.e. they should take ~ (2x21)/12 = 3.5 amps together. I suppose I could disconnect the passenger side element and half the current?

[Nick Mann]

That will surely bring on the rear fog light with the front fog lights. Don't you want to have independant control over them?

I would try and source another switch (Mo?) and set it up on the switch panel below the front fog switch. Or alternatively, source the foglight switches for a UK car and use them. (Both switches fit in the position of the VR4's one.)

Either of those ways will leave you without decent dash illumination as a warning that your rear fog is on, though. I don't know about the regulations for that, but all aftermarket fog lights are fitted with illuminating switches, so that there is a warning light on or by the switch for the rear fog.

[Beastlee]

If you are taking the feed this way are you going to run another length of wire? If so I'd suggest a relay inserted under the dash switching the correct current.
Mine was already done when I got it but switching on the front fog without the lights already being on switches the front fogs on and sets allt he lights to sidelight status.

Nick, are you sure on that? I thought it was impossible to put the UK switches in the place of the VR4's one. I had planned on sorting this in my car to give it a more natural look. Here's a pic of the VR4 (Prefacelift if it matters) vent area and switch :

uploaded/4273/1202766557.jpg

[phosty]

I realised it would switch both front and back on - but I checked with the MOT tester and he said that would be fine. Alternatively I would just disconnect the front fogs at the lamps as they're not required for the MOT.

The main purpose of this is that I really liked the idea of retaining the instrument cluster fog light indicator for the rear fog light - my old car has an illuminated switch but it's down low beside the traction control switch and easy to miss.

I already have a request out on PartsGateway to see if any breakers have the UK dual front/back fog switch available. I asked Mitsubishi what the price was for a new one - £58 +VAT!!!!

Yes - I was planning on running a new wire from the switch to the rear to connect with the one I cut in the boot.

If I use a relay to avoid large currents in the switch wiring where's the best place to take the +12V from? Preferably fused I assume?

[Nick Mann]

Nick, are you sure on that? I thought it was impossible to put the UK switches in the place of the VR4's one. I had planned on sorting this in my car to give it a more natural look. Here's a pic of the VR4 (Prefacelift if it matters) vent area and switch :
Impossible how? I'm sure they will physically fit..... I'm not sure about the wiring, I have never looked. Maybe someone with a UK galant can post a photo of the same area. Basically, the foglight switch on the VR4 is sliced in two, with the top half being for the front fogs and the bottom half being for the rears.

[Nick Mann]

The main purpose of this is that I really liked the idea of retaining the instrument cluster fog light indicator for the rear fog light
Yeah - I'd love to have the light on the dash. Again, the UK cars have it, so I was hoping there would be a symbol on the VR4 dash that could be used. Alas, no such luck.

If you are happy and the MOT station is happy, then go for it! I would wire the light in from the fusebox under the switch. Work out the currents - you could probably put it on the lights fuse, but you may need to uprate the fuse a bit?

Job done! :thumbsup:

[Beastlee]

Nick, that explains it, I thought there were two separate switches as I nearly bought some off Dunly until he showed me pics of the location and it was totally different. Unfortuantely I deleted the PMs with them in a long time ago.

[g6acb]

I've got a spare UK front/rear fog switch - can't get to it till Friday

There is an MOT requirement for the fogs to have a 'tell tale' - an indication that they are on.... this is in the instrument binnacle rather than the switch itself.... I can't think how youd hang it all together??

[phosty]

I would wire the light in from the fusebox under the switch.

Could you be a bit more specific where I could pickup the +12V from the fuse box - I'm not too hot on wiring and I'd hate to short something out. Presumably via a new relay?

[HMG1K]

Impossible how? I'm sure they will physically fit..... I'm not sure about the wiring, I have never looked. Maybe someone with a UK galant can post a photo of the same area. Basically, the foglight switch on the VR4 is sliced in two, with the top half being for the front fogs and the bottom half being for the rears.

That's right - looking at these photos here of the one large size fog switch next to the wing mirror controls - the UK facelifts have that button in half... The top part pushes in and out for the front fog and the bottom portion does the rear...

The bank of three switches / blanks space below the fog light switches and wing mirrors just have a height / load adjustment headight leveler (on mine anyway) with two blank ports for extra switches to be installed if expansion is needed.

[phosty]

Hmmn, I thought I would check my estimate of the fog light current by wiring my multi-meter in series. That confirmed a current of ~1.5A with a single 21W bulb.

However....I have a few LEDs that I ordered from eBay based on the LED thread on here so I thought I would check them too:

Bayonet 1W LED = 25mA
Wedge 1W LED = 27 mA
Festoon 1W LED = 36 mA
15 Element LED = 110mA

i.e. much lower. And they're bright too.....maybe I don't need that relay after all.

I also managed to find a breakers with the dual UK spec split fog light switch. £23 delivered so not too bad.

For those of you who have the dual switch - does the instrument binnacle indicator light illuminate when either front or rear fog switch is pressed? Mind you - they don't have the VR4 high-contrast dash do they?

I suppose I could wire up a separate feed to the indicator light in the dash....but that's even more effort. Decisions, decisions!

[Nick Mann]

Which feed to use I coudn't say. I'd look at the fuses and the power load, then decide.

LED bulbs could be the perfect answer to worrying about current!

UK cars have two dash lights for fogs, one for front and one for rear. The rear fog light warning doesn't exist on the VR4 dash.

[Turbo_Steve]

If you're putting in a relay, you could presumably retain the brake lights until you turn on the foglight switch, which will then keep them turned on.
Can't see that this would be an MoT failure, and dead easy to fit with a two way relay.

If you use a diode, the "front fogs" indicator could also be used for the rear fogs?

[Nick Mann]

Steve - I have done that! But theoretically, it is an MOT failure, as you can't use the same bulb for brakes and fogs.

I also put a simple how to in the members articles section. :thumbsup:

[phosty]

If you use a diode, the "front fogs" indicator could also be used for the rear fogs?

How do you mean? Illuminate the indicator without switching on the front fogs? The wires in the switch just seem to feed a relay in the engine bay for the front fogs and must also branch into the dash somewhere to light the dash indicator.

[Nick Mann]

But you could use a second wire from the foglight feed to feed the dash light. This is something I hadn't thought of! I like the cunning plan..... Next time I have some time :inquisiti I'll give it a go.

[Turbo_Steve]

In theory it should be fairly simple to do. In theory.

Phosty, the idea is that you find the wire in the loom going to the dash that illuminates the front fog indicator. You then Cut this wire.
You then stick a diode in between the two bits of wire, which prevents current flowing backwards to the fogs. You then connect a second diode (pointing in the same direction) between your rear foglight feed and the tell-tale.

It will light for either front or rear fogs.

The only risk with this is if the standard wiring does something obnoxious (like several jap cars do) involving some lights switching earths, some positives, feeds from all over etc. I doubt it, with the front fogs. They definitely do some kind of sub-switching to the side lights, but I believe this is either via diodes or a relay.

[phosty]

Ah yes, I see what you mean, but....


...the idea is that you find the wire in the loom going to the dash that illuminates the front fog indicator....

...that was the bit I was trying to avoid. The pink & black wires for the front fog relay disappear off in a tightly wound loom that snakes behind the fuse board so it would be a whole lot more effort to find the split off to the dash illumination.

And the plot thickens - the UK spec split switch arrived today. And it's a little more complicated than the Jap spec one:

Jap Spec (note simple sliding contacts)
uploaded/4134/1203029057.jpg

UK Spec (not so simple internals with a different size connector!)
uploaded/4134/1203029117.jpg
uploaded/4134/1203029282.jpg

But it looks nice mounted in place:
uploaded/4134/1203029343.jpg

So now I have to decide how far I want to go with this. I'll have a play at the weekend to see if there is some simple logic to the new switch. Hopefully it'll just need a +12V on the right pin. I'm assuming that built in black thing is a latching relay to provide two separate latched outputs since the switches themselves are just momentary style. Not sure why it needs the two IC chips though?

And I thought this was going to be simple!

[andy p]

Haven't studied fog light set up on my (UK) Galant yet so don't even know if there is a relay but the 'Chips' could be effectively 'solid state' relays (Triacs etc) to switch the load using low current switches. If that is the case then you could wire bulbs directly from output side of unit.

Phot not clear but one of the components looks to have 5W (5 Watts) written on it which would confirm that no further 'relay' required.

Legilation requires an illuminated indication that Fog loghts are on but this can be on dash or switch or infact naywhere driver can see it!

I have been trying to get a wiring manual for the Galant for ages...Anyone know where I can get one??? Pleeeeaaase

[Nick Mann]

The switches on the UK cars latch when pressed electrically, rather than mechanically. i.e. when you turn the ignition off and back on again, they default to the off position. I would imagine that most of the extra gubbins is that. If someone with a UK car could let you know what the feeds in are, then the rest should be easy enough to work out.

[Turbo_Steve]

Well, the Japanese switch is a double pole to start with, and switches something in the main lighting circuits, as it brings the sidelights on with it.

I'd assume this means it switches the -ve side of a relay somewhere.
The other side will presumably switch the fogs.


Based on this, I'd suggest you've got three circuits being switched (the main lighting circuit, the front fogs and the rear fogs) and then a ground, illumination, and most likely a +12v feed.
It looks like there's 9 pins on that switch, so that would work out perfectly!

It would also explain the high component count.
The black blob on top looks like a magnetic reed relay which is probably the -ve lighting circuit: I'm willing to bet two pins from that go direct to two pins on the plug.

You'll have a couple of feeds that appear to go to a million places. That's your +12v and your 0v. Not sure how you'd identify the other two...presumably by putting a test voltage into the relevant pins and see what happens on the ones you suspect are outputs.

[phosty]

An update -

I wired up my rear tailgate brake bulbs up via a relay much the same as guide in the articles section and also hooked it up to the front fog switch:

uploaded/4134/1203629902.gif

And it passed it's MOT with this setup (failed on emissions but that's another story).

The advantage of this setup to me is that I keep the OEM fog light switch (operates both front and rear fogs simultaneously) and also get the dash lamp illuminating.

Albeit at the loss of my tailgate brake lights (still keep the other 3).

I initially had the setup a little different with the new wire from the front fog switch connected to the black wire in the switch which I had cut from the earth. The idea was to take the +12V when the switch was closed back to the relay coil where it was then earthed through the coil. Trouble was their wasn't enough juice in the circuit to energise two coils in series (there must be a relay coil back on the pink wire for the front fogs).

[phosty]

Oh - and I did start to play with the UK Spec fog switch. I had figured much the same as you suggested - 3 pairs for the front fog, rear fog, and sidelights, 2 for the illumination, and one for either earth or +12V.

Unfortunately I blew the fuse in my multi-meter and gave up after a couple of hours. I have asked the breakers to send me the plug that it was connected to so that should give a hint to what wire goes where.

[miikka]

I am interested of this UK <-> Japan switch thing too. Today I took the JDM-switch off and now I've got two switches here on my table.

Could anyone give me a hint with original JDM-switch wire colours? I've got a workshop manual for '97 Galant (RHD & LHD) but it tells nothing about JDM switch wirings.

There's following colours:
Light blue (what is this??)
Green-white
Black x2
Black yellow
Pink

And these colours are found on EDM-switch:
Green-white x2
Black
Black-yellow
Pink x2
Red-yellow
Red-blue
Red-black

I am wondering specially the pink colour. WSM says it's wire for front fog lamp relay. But why there's two pink wires in EDM switch? And seems like there's some extra wires in switch. For example, WSM doesn't tell anything about red-yellow-wire.

Seems like there's a relay inside of the switch. So, I think it's for rear fogs. And I can still keep using the original front fog light relay, even the switch is different?

I cutted the brake lights on tailgate and connected new wires on bulbs, so I'm going to have rear fog lights instead of brake lights.

[phosty]

Light blue: +12v from sidelight relay
Black x2: earths (one for sidelight and foglight dual pole)
Pink: +12v from front fog relay
Green-white: switch illumination from dimmer unit
Black yellow: earth for switch illumination

I also got the wiring for the UK spec plug sent to me so I think it's the same colours as you wrote.

But I haven't got around to playing with the UK switch unit yet.

Out if interest, which WSM do you have that details wiring colours?

[miikka]

Light blue: +12v from sidelight relay
Black x2: earths (one for sidelight and foglight dual pole)
Pink: +12v from front fog relay
Green-white: switch illumination from dimmer unit
Black yellow: earth for switch illumination

I also got the wiring for the UK spec plug sent to me so I think it's the same colours as you wrote.

But I haven't got around to playing with the UK switch unit yet.

Out if interest, which WSM do you have that details wiring colours?

Thanks, this helped me a lot. But one more question of JDM switch: what is that "sidelight"? A parking light, right?

I've got two different manuals, one is basic manual and the another is called "Workshop manual - Electrical wiring" (about 50 mb's).

So you don't have any idea of those UK switch wires yet? Hopefully at least the common coloured wires are the same in both switches. At least I can't imagine that they're going to change the wire colours between different switches :thinking:

Edit: Has someone solved is there a free slot in gauge for rear fog light indicator light? And/or wires ready?

[Nick Mann]

The VR4 high contrast dash doesn't have a rear fog indicator light. Sorry! The only dash option I have seen suggested so far is to use the front fog light lamp for both sets of fogs. You could use a diode on each circuit feed to the lamp to stop cross talk between the two foglight circuits.

[miikka]

The VR4 high contrast dash doesn't have a rear fog indicator light. Sorry! The only dash option I have seen suggested so far is to use the front fog light lamp for both sets of fogs. You could use a diode on each circuit feed to the lamp to stop cross talk between the two foglight circuits.

Okay, have to do it in that way. And btw, as I said I cutted off the old switch yesterday. Today while started the car I noticed that automatic dimming while turning head lamps on has gone with fog lamp switch. So it's somehow connected to switch.

And again one question: Does anyone have a clue of how much the relay inside of the switch can take a load without a normal relay? Can I connect the rear fog lamps to switch without normal relay between switch and lamps?

Well, I've to continue working with it today.

[Nick Mann]

Could it be that the dashboard light circuit goes through the fog light illumination and that is why the circuit doesn't work? I guess that the other option is that when cutting the cables you shorted out the circuit somewhere and blew a fuse.

[phosty]

The VR4 high contrast dash doesn't have a rear fog indicator light.

I thought this was true as well. However......I have been opening up the dash of both my auto and manual leggie at the weekend (I'm putting the speedo convertors behind the dash as I don't trust my soldering at arms length in the engine bay). It would appear that on my Pre-facelift manual there is actually a Rear-fog indicator - the bulb holder is there on both manual and auto dash's but the red symbol is missing on the auto dash. So when I finally get around to figuring out the wiring on the UK fog switch the plan is to enable both dash indicators separately.

For the autos I guess you could cut the rear fog symbol from somewhere else - maybe get a old dash for some other car that has a backlit dash and put it in front of the bulb holder. Good news for manual owners though!

I'll get some photos up tonight.

[phosty]

Here are the dash's compared (with a torch from behind):

Manual dash with Rear Fog Indicator:
uploaded/4134/1208277078.jpg

Auto Dash with no Rear Fog Indicator:
uploaded/4134/1208277283.jpg

Dash Rears compared (you can see the sticker they put over the Rear fog indicator on the manual dash):
uploaded/4134/1208277412.jpg

[miikka]

Phosty, thanks for great pics and great news also :)

But now it's time to start wondering of wiring... If there's no wires for rear fog lamp indicator, it sounds impossible to find the right way to wire it.

The main thing now for me is to get the EDM-switch working during this week, should go to MOT soon. I think that I'll disable the front fog lamps until it and I'll use the front lamps indicator as rear fogs. It shouldn't be too hard to install it in that way. But still I'm wondering does this need a normal relay too, or can that 0FG-relay take 2x 21W load. Current is 3,5 A's, so I think it should can take it.

Well, I'm going to test something now... :givemebee

[phosty]

Miikka, if you wire it as per the diagram above you will need to disconnect the front fogs (in the bumper housing) if you don't want them on at the same time as the rears. However it isn't an MOT fail in the UK if the front fogs come on too.

I did get a testers 'Advisory' about the dash symbol being for the front fog but it's not a fail.

You should bear in mind - the pink wire is +12V from the front fog relay coil. The JDM switch earths it and thus powers the fog lights. You can't drive another relay from the pink wire. I tried it that way first but it only worked intermittently (not enough juice to power two relays in series I guess). So I found I needed to earth any new relay back through the JDM switch by connecting to the pink wire as the diagram shows.

I think hooking up the rear fog indicator will be fine on my manual - if there are no wires to the dash connector I'll just solder on flying leads. When we figure out the EDM switch I'll then revert to separate circuits for front and back.

I'm assuming that the EDM switch only acts as a latching switch - I intend to use a separate relay for powering the fogs.

Re dimming circuit - the JDM switch is double pole as you can see in the pictures in post#18. When you flick the switch it earths both the pink wire (front fog relay) and the blue wire (sidelight relay). If you just earth the pink wire nothing happens because it doesn't get +12V until the sidelights are on (via either the steering wheel stalk knob or earthing the blue wire). Dimming is activated anytime the sidelights are on - not the fog lights. Have you disconnected the blue wire?