Wideband etc.

[Nick Mann]

Who has a wideband installed?
What are you using?

I am having a look at the moment, and am stuck between the Innovate LC-1 and the PLX.

The PLX is actually quite a nice piece of kit, from what I can tell. Plus you can buy multiple sensor modules and then daisy chain them. This means you can have one multi purpose gauge (For around £100) and display whatever you want on it. Oil temp, AFR, Boost, EGT etc... The PLX AFR module is also slightly cheaper than the LC-1.

The LC-1 has the bonus that it is supported by more software, such as Evoscan. This would give easier logging for multiple variables, I think.

Anyone got any experience or comments?

[Nutter_John]

Got an LC-1 , works quite well , as with the PLX you can add an AUX3 unit that allows 5 or 6 extra things to be monitored

Both are pretty good so more down to choice

[Mark 4]

LC-1, I like it, simple, good quality and simple software - I like simple things -but haven't got a clue what other ones are out there.

[VR4 MAD]

Just a 'heads-up' on what one of our members thinks of the LC-1..........in summary not that impressed and had a bad experience.

Read what Gly said on the OZVR4 site here (http://ozvr4.com/forums/showpost.php?p=23088&postcount=6).

Hope this helps. Gly may be along to give you more details.

/toycar

[Kieran]

I was going to get the PLX SM-AFR but got an offer on a brand new LC-1 that was very good, so I went that route. I am beginning to wish I'd gone for the PLX.

I installed this weekend and it's been a pain in the ass so far. My unit won't hold its calibration data if the car is switched off for more than 5 minutes and having to crawl under the car to keep dragging the damn sensor out is not exactly a 5 minute job!

Reading up on the tech support forums, the LC-1 is sensitive to earthing being done correctly and with the way mine is currently installed, it's possible that this is the problem. It doesn't mention this in the printed quick start guide though. There's also apparently a firmware bug that causes this (it can be cured via a re-flash without needing to return it fortunately). Overall I'm not off to a good start and I am not known for my patience with things that don't work as one would expect!!/Grrr

[Dan_G]

I have LC-1 + G3 Gauge.

The LC-1 can be daisychained with seperate modules to log multiple channels using the innovate software logworks.

Also one of my favourite features is that it has 2 analog outputs which can be programed to output wideband signal (one plugged into gauge) & you can use one to simulate the narrowband sensor, this means you can replace your existing o2 sensor with the wideband and no need to weld another bung onto your downpipe.

I am currently running with the narrowband output to the ecu and its doing a better job than my original sensor. I regularly get 24-25mpg now, whereas before i was getting more like 19mpg.. thats probably more down to the old sensor being screwed though.

to datalog with the LC-1 onto a laptop with no serial port you will need a serial RS232 to usb converter cable.

Works really well, such a powerful tuning tool when used with evoscan i love it./rally

EDIT {having read some other post i should add I've had it in for around 3000miles and its not broken yet}

[ANTHONY]

whoosh what was that just went over my head...oh yes the above information

[Kieran]

whoosh what was that just went over my head...oh yes the above information

Must you keep cluttering threads with random gibberish?!/pan /pan

[Mark 4]

Kieran, I bought mine from Wodj and he made it very clear to me that earthing is a major point. I followed his instructions and mine has been fine.

[Gowf]

PLX all the way.... no need for calibration, do it once and thats it. All the aftermarket ecu's have lookup tables for them so can easily datalog with that. They supply you with the voltage/afr table aswell so as you can calibrate whatever datalogger you wish if it doesnt have the tables.

Cheap, reliable, simple to use, what more do you want?

[stuartturbo]

As above for said reason

no need for calibration

Cheap YES
reliable, simple to use do not know as not yet fitted


In car though rolling round boot:thinking:

[pezza]

The LC-1 has been fine in my motor have had it installed for coming up to two years. Only real drawback I think is the need to recalibrate by taking it out the zorst.

The software is great esp with the logging util software it comes with.


I got the LC-1 as it works well with e-manage and E-01 on the move. Many ppl on the EManage forums have had success with it too.

If Ihad to install a similar set up in next car, would probably try the PLX to see what that's like.

[Kenneth]

The LC-1 has been fine in my motor have had it installed for coming up to two years. Only real drawback I think is the need to recalibrate by taking it out the zorst.


Yo do not need to take it out of the exhaust.
Run down a hill in gear with no throttle. The ECU will turn off the injectors and the engine will pump clean air through the exhaust. about 3/4 down, hit the re-calibration button.

[Twpsin]

PLX because that is what Ben fitted dont seem to have any problems with it

[Nick Mann]

So can you datalog from the PLX AFR sensor unit straight to a PC? The LC-1 has the ability to do that, I understand, but I can't immediately see if the PLX does it. Assuming it does, then i think the PLX is what I will go for. You can get the sensor unit and sensor for just over £100 brand new. I don't really need or want a guage yet, so if I can datalog from the sensor unit, then I'll get that and add other sensors and a multi-function gauge later, when I have a bit of cash to spend!

[pezza]

Yo do not need to take it out of the exhaust.
Run down a hill in gear with no throttle. The ECU will turn off the injectors and the engine will pump clean air through the exhaust. about 3/4 down, hit the re-calibration button.

Still not managed to try this... Wodj mentioned it to me a while back. I will give it a go....

Cheers for that

[Gowf]

So can you datalog from the PLX AFR sensor unit straight to a PC? The LC-1 has the ability to do that, I understand, but I can't immediately see if the PLX does it. Assuming it does, then i think the PLX is what I will go for. You can get the sensor unit and sensor for just over £100 brand new. I don't really need or want a guage yet, so if I can datalog from the sensor unit, then I'll get that and add other sensors and a multi-function gauge later, when I have a bit of cash to spend!


If you are using the map2 or anyother piggyback/standalone ecu then the software will allow you to datalog using the wideband output of the plx while retaining the narrowband output to the stock ecu (if necessary)

[Nick Mann]

I get the narrowband emulation etc. At the moment I have a Unichip, which is not useful for a DIYer. I have Evoscan with an appropriate cable. Evoscan has the ability to log AFRs from wideband devices. (PLX is not a named device, but I think it could be made to work.)
But how does the PLX AFR unit connect to the PC? Can you connect with a serial/usb cable or do you need another logger, whether it is PLX or MAP2 etc. in between the AFR unit and the PC?

[Gowf]

You would need another logger im afraid nick, one that will accept a 0-5v output from a wideband.

[Nick Mann]

So how does the LC-1 do it? Does it have a digital out, or something?

[VR4 MAD]

................................Run down a hill in gear with no throttle. The ECU will turn off the injectors and the engine will pump clean air through the exhaust. about 3/4 down, hit the re-calibration button.

Kenneth, does this work for both manuals and Tiptronic gear boxes.........:inquisiti

/toycar

[Nick Mann]

I think it should do - I'm sure my injector duty cycle goes to zero when the car is at closed throttle and in gear.

[Kenneth]

Kenneth, does this work for both manuals and Tiptronic gear boxes.........:inquisiti

/toycar

if your car is engine braking and above say 2000RPM then your injectors will be off :) I believe the auto locks the torque converter to allow you to engine brake, so I expect it will work

[Kieran]

if your car is engine braking and above say 2000RPM then your injectors will be off :) I believe the auto locks the torque converter to allow you to engine brake, so I expect it will work

Confirmed that it does. I used this trick at the weekend. Above 2000rpm on a hill the injectors do switch off. Duty cycle drops to 0%. Normal idle is about ~1-1.5%.

Nick... EVOscan is setup to interpret the signals from the LC-1. What you do is connect EVOscan as normal to the diag port. Then you connect the LC-1 to the PC via a USB to serial adapter. You set the LC-1 into "Spit data out via the external serial port" mode and it starts throwing data at the PC. All you do is tell Evoscan which port the data's comming down and it will log it.:scholar:

[Nick Mann]

Yeah. But it seems that the PLX doesn't have a serial out? It has a signal out that goes to PLXs gauges/logging devices, or analogue outs. So I can't connect a PLX to a PC without an A to D converter, which will end up costing more than the LC-1. This is a shame and a big down point for the PLX. The rest of the system seems ideal for what I would eventually be using it for, but I am trying to keep costs down at the moment.

[Turbo_Steve]

?? Thought the PLX used CAN bus?

[Nick Mann]

I don't know.... What does that mean? I can log it on a laptop?

[psbarham]

what are you using it for? if its to set up your ecu then i have an LM1 you can borrow, its sat here gathering dust at the mo so if you can make use of it for a month or so then feel free to ask

[Nick Mann]

psb - that could be really helpful in the short term.

Long term, it will be used to set up a map2. Short term it is to try and work out wtf my car is doing to get large amounts of knock and rob itself of 50 bhp.

I thought I could buy the first part of the wideband to end up being used in the system. Maybe I still will? But I wanted to use it at first to diagnose my current problem. Once I have the map2 installed, I won't need a guage or a way of connecting the PLX to a pc - it will be connected through the map2. But I need to understand why my car isn't healthy before I put the map2 on. So I need to buy a gauge that I won't use after 2 months of ownership!! /pan

One other option I have considered today, is to just buy an analogue volt meter from Maplin for £10. I can put an AFR gauge on it with sticky tape as it measures the volts from the wideband! And it will have further use after it is made redundant from the wideband...

Thanks again for the offer, if I think it is the best way, I'll be shouting!

[Turbo_Steve]

But the multimeter won't neccesarily give you confidence in the reading.
To be honest your Dyno session should have logged your AFRs and boost anyway? It might be worth phoning them and ask if they still have the sensor logs on the dyno for you.

CAN bus is just a serial comms protocol.....you can usually get a CAN cable to connect to laptop (and IIRC it's fairly cheap). The only catch is that you'll need some software that can read the CAN signal, which isn't always dead simple (think DOS commands LOL)

[Nick Mann]

I don't need enough confidence in the multimeter for tuning. By the time I can tune, I will be able to datalog through the map2. All I need to do now is make sure that I am overfuelling to get knock, rather than underfuelling! The multimeter should be able to do that for me.

The RR session was a cheapie on a club day. I don't think they checked the AFR or boost level. My other option is to go back and spend a bit more and do it properly. But I would rather get as far as I can first...

[Turbo_Steve]

I take it back...just asked PLX and their bus is currently proprietary. It is based on CAN, but they're not keen on sharing connectivity details. Sorry: my bad.

I guess the multimeter makes the most sense.