A Powerful VR4 unknown to the club!

[Nick Mann]

I have been having a look at Japmids forums recently and came accross this thread:

http://www.japmids.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=43605#43605

You need to sign up for an account to read it, I think, but it is interesting! There is a guy asking for info for his uncle about crack testing the heads on his VR4.

I made a comment about that being a rare problem:

I've not hear of anyone cracking a head before on one of these engines. The normal way they die is breaking up of the ringlands with high boost, or eventually bending or breaking a rod (which could be a result of piston failure I guess). They seem to be relatively tough enines if set up properly. With standard turbos it is difficult to get to high power, and bolt on turbo upgrades are not available.

So the guy came back with some info on his Uncles VR4:


The car has a massive spec along the lines of forged engine, GTO hybrid turbos, Motec, WI, Tein coilovers, Custom air intake etc.. etc...

Its been heavily worked on by Owen developments.

The car is massively quick, the BHP is around the 420 mark which i know isnt amazing in this day and age but the torque figure is somwhere near 400 ft/lb as well.

And posted a photo:
uploaded/408/1203415834.jpg

Flippin' Heck! I have obviously asked if he is interested in the club, but unfortunatley the owner of the VR4 is not a fan of internet forums.

Hopefully one day Ants uncle and CVR4 will cross paths, 'cause that looks to be a very interesting car! :thumbsup:

[Nutter_John]

interesting , but why go forged , tubs and motec to only push 420 /400

Brad got closer to that with out turbos

Maybe a downhill dyno ?

[Nick Mann]

?

Who's got the downhill dyno? Brad?

400 on standard tubs must be pretty much impossible. Why haven't you got that otherwise? Your fuel system could do it, so you only need the air to go with it....

[Lillywotsername]

Oh this is the one you were saying about the other evening on MSN.....

WHEN CVR4 WAS DOWN.... ;)

[Nutter_John]

?

Who's got the downhill dyno? Brad?

400 on standard tubs must be pretty much impossible. Why haven't you got that otherwise? Your fuel system could do it, so you only need the air to go with it....

Yes I honestly do think that 400 is possible on stock tubs , but by advanced timming not boost / airflow .On minie my timming is stock so there must be a few degrees timming to be added which if you can get 1 deg it equates to 3%->5% of the max power roughly , so with a 330 bhp car for every 1 degree you get roughly 3% more power ( so 3 degrees would give you around 30->50 bhp )

To claim 420/400 on a forged engine is very poor , given that both my car and Your car nick are producing over 370ft/lbs on stock .

The picture also does not suggest different tubs on there , given that gowf has gto turbos and will need custom hardpipes , maybe I'm just a doubter of perfomance unless I've seen it in the flesh

Downhill Dyno was a jest at Brad :P

[leebutts]

There's definitely a lot going on where the factory airbox would normally be - any ideas what all that it?

cheers

Lee

[WildCards]

Where in the mids is the car Nick?

Any other pics?

[miller]

Where in the mids is the car Nick?

Any other pics?

I think its in the Leicestershire region. The chap is gonna get more pics uploaded to the Japmids forum


Mike

[Nutter_John]

How's about a published dyno graph ??? :D

[Paul Beazer]

Looks like theres some NOS piping in there too?
Uprated rad in there as well as other things

[White Lightning]

There's definitely a lot going on where the factory airbox would normally be - any ideas what all that it?

cheers

Lee

Looks like the battery has been removed (probably in the boot or trunk as I guess you guys call it :happy: ) and there is a cold air box in it's place. I am not sure what the gauge is for though ... :inquisiti

[K9NG]

I knew of a member which had 426 on stock turbos.

[Louis]

can you spot the radiator cap?

[Roberto]

I can see a radiator cap, but no idea if it is one what it's doing there or if it really is for a rad.

[Nutter_John]

Why look at the blue pipe at the front it is not standard , nor is the radiator

Seems to be some sort of electric thing near the left light

lots of stainless pipes but can't work out if there oil , fuel or nos

interesting thing near the fuse box which looks like some sort of electric pump

looks like air con has been removed or relocated , some pipes going to something on top of the left hand engine mount

a lot of what seems to have been done doesn't quite make sense to me , but would be very interesting to have a look see at it for 15 mins

[WildCards]

I've got it! the source of all his power....




The engine cover seems to be in one piece

[Nutter_John]

well spotted steve , thats it I don't have one so will be losing 100bhp cos of that

[MarkSanne]

good spotting guys... I was also under the impression of losing power and found out the cover had lots of cracks ;) (new engine cover is 420 euro's btw I asked my local mitsi dealer)

[Wodjno]

It looks like a very well sorted VR4.. And i have no reason to believe the power outputs he has..

As for saying that he has low power output for Forged internals ? Not everyone takes things to there max. Alot of owners and Tuners will ensure the safe running of there car for performande and longevity. I pretty sure i would rather have 420bhp on forged internals that are only working to a slight percentage of there max. Than 420bhp pushing everthing to it's limit.

And just cos things don't look familiar. It doesn't mean it doesn't make sense.. I am pretty sure there are plenty VR's out there with things under the bonnet that would give you a furrowed brow. Most of these will be over in Japan. And i bet theres plenty with forged internals and 500 + bhp.

Hope we can get more info on the car..

Has anyone thought of giving Owen Developements a call... Sure it would be easier than guessing :scholar:

[Wodjno]

I knew of a member which had 426 on stock turbos.

:D BB :D

2 x EMB and WI. No Aftermarket BC.

I think the main thing on BB's car and the 1 above that has not been extensively made use of, is WI /yes

[Kieran]

I knew of a member which had 426 on stock turbos.

Bonsai Boy, perchance? I know his car was very powerful, though he never shared details of how he achieved it.:undecided :sad3:

[Louis]

Looks like a lot of moving the standard stuff around.
The rad cap is up on the right where the afm would usualy be (not sure where that's gone), and behind it on the bulkhead is like the rad expansion tank and another small plastic container (blue), looks like either air con has been relocated, or ? poss
some kind of charge cooling sys, all very interesting.

[Louis]

Just noticed an electric water pump by the rad cap, which would explain the move.

I also thought Bonsia boy, he had WI but was running an emanage back then, I'm interested in the motec set up?

[K9NG]

:D BB :D

2 x EMB and WI. No Aftermarket BC.

I think the main thing on BB's car and the 1 above that has not been extensively made use of, is WI /yes


Yeah WI a decent FMIC and a decent Map.

[bradc]

looks like a nice engine bay, but yeah 420hp isn't really huge unless he has kept with tiny little td04-9b turbos, but then why would you?

[MarkSanne]

2 x EMB and WI. No Aftermarket BC. Yeah WI a decent FMIC and a decent Map.

Damn trekkies! What language is this? Klingonized english?

(would someone please enlighten me with the abbreviations? sorry!!!)

[Nutter_John]

emange blue , water injection

[Wodjno]

Damn trekkies! What language is this? Klingonized english?

(would someone please enlighten me with the abbreviations? sorry!!!)

Sorry /pan

EMB = E-manage Blue(Piggy Back ECU) BB was running 2 of these. 1 for track and 1 for road..

FMIC = Front Mounted Intercooler

Aftermarket BC = Aftermarket Boost Controller

WI = Water Injection



Yeah WI a decent FMIC and a decent Map.

BB regurlarly had his EMB mapped if i remember right..
he wasn't running an aftermarket EBC either, it was all controlled from the EMB..

[Eurospec]

Water injection really is only going to help you supress knock/hold intake temps down. Its a bit more interesting if you inject a bit of alcohol with it mthough :-) A supporting mod rather than a prime one is what i'm getting at.

As for the heads cracking, you can get them magnafluxed to check, but my money recons they wont crack, they might however bend the decks in the squish area in very high power outputs/ or if not propperly clamped.

The decks can be reinforced but it is not cheap.

I recon at 420 ish, a good set of ARP's will be fine. Start pushing 500 plus and it might start to worry the heads.

Cheers,

Ben.

[Turbo_Steve]

Having seen what the 4G63 heads will go through without treatment, I can't believe they're going to be the weak component.

As for the argument for going forged and them only having 420bhp being reasonable: it's a question of investment. If I'd spent out for Motec (£££) and forged internals, I would be aiming for a little more than 420bhp from a 2.5L engine! Especially when the stagea can be taken WAY beyond that point for significantly less expense. I love VR-4s, but I also have enough sense to know that if you're spending out on rebuilding, you may as well spend the tiny extra amount to go for something REALLY special, rather than 420 which is attainable on standard internals: it's just dreadful economics.

[Turbo_Steve]

Just been looking at that photo. Is it me, or does it look like the airbox is acting as a chiller core? As though the aircon isn't going to the cabin, but to the inlet?
And then that inlet pipe gauge could be a thermometer?
I would have thought this was all very innefficient if that's what's been done? Just looking at all the lagging on the pipes is suspicious....

[ianturbo]

can we not get someone to buy him a few beers and then he can be (our) friend!!!
ian

[hi flyer]

maybe 420hp at the wheels??