Legnum VR-4 on UK fuel?

[carlwhitley]

Just a quick question...

Do Legnums need to be remapped to work with UK fuel, or does the ECU deal with the different grades of fuel?

Also - what petrol do you put in your cars? 97ron, Shell V-Power, Tesco 99ron, or other?

[Nick Mann]

The car is mapped for 100 octane, as available in Japan. However, stick with super and you should be okay. Most seem to work, although people have different opinions of what works best. Personally, I use V-Power unless I can get Tesco 99. Many of us avoid supermarket 97.

Don't use 95 ron - this will cause knock in the engine and the ecu will retard timing and cut power.


Hope that helps!

[carlwhitley]

Cheers for that. Is it best to have another ecu or a piggyback mapped then, to take into account the difference in UK fuel?

[Nick Mann]

You shouldn't need to if using good super unleaded. But it is very adviseable if using 95. There is a potential to refine the mpg on these cars anyway using a piggyback (as well as release power) as they tend to run quite rich.

[TAR]

Tesco's 99 Super unleaded is good. I use that with no problems at all.

[ANTHONY]

sainsbury's super for me and Vpower now and again

[Nutter_John]

Vpower only , used tesco for one tank full and was getting a few lights up on the knock link .

But then again I have been mapped on Vpower so have little choice

[Beastlee]

BP Ultimate 100 and nothing else for me but you'd need a tank of fuel just to get to the filling station LOL

[Nick VR4]

Shell V-Power here no others around really

[White Lightning]

V-Power only for me.

[Paul C]

v-power +sometimes octane booster. Not sure how efficent the octane boosters are as some deteriate and loose effectiveness.

[ianturbo]

V power this end too !!/rally
ian

[Robotnik123]

Can mixing in some methylated spirits boost your octane? On another forum a person was saying how they mix meths into their petrol to make their modded R34 GT-R run smoothly.

[psbarham]

Can mixing in some methylated spirits boost your octane? On another forum a person was saying how they mix meths into their petrol to make their modded R34 GT-R run smoothly.

i think they probably meant methanol

[pitslayer]

V power for me, i dont like supermarket fuel, and bp ultimate is the biggest con going

[ianturbo]

:
Can mixing in some methylated spirits boost your octane? On another forum a person was saying how they mix meths into their petrol to make their modded R34 GT-R run smoothly.
i heard that thinners was good , but never tried it :thinking:
ian

[Beastlee]

V power for me, i dont like supermarket fuel, and bp ultimate is the biggest con going

How so? The tests show that V-Power looses it's octane rating as it sits there. I'd like to see evidence of how BP Ultimate is a Con as I found my car runs at least 20miles more to a tank than with V-Power. Not only that but the car runs much better than on V-Power which is based on the evidence from my Profec.
I only use BP Ultimate at the moment but if I can pe shown clear evidence that V-Power is better for my car then I'd happily switch.
The only caveat for my above comments is that I use the 100 octane version of both products.

[Kieran]

How so? The tests show that V-Power looses it's octane rating as it sits there. I'd like to see evidence of how BP Ultimate is a Con as I found my car runs at least 20miles more to a tank than with V-Power. Not only that but the car runs much better than on V-Power which is based on the evidence from my Profec.
I only use BP Ultimate at the moment but if I can pe shown clear evidence that V-Power is better for my car then I'd happily switch.
The only caveat for my above comments is that I use the 100 octane version of both products.


Well there you go, you've answered your own question. Ultimate over here is 97, so it's not as good. UK V-power is 99.

Also, ALL petrol suffers octane rating drop over time, it's not just V-Power.

[Beastlee]

Kieran, I'm afraid the argument that BP ultimate in the UK is a con based on it being lower octane rating than V-Power is insufficient. The only justification I can see with that evidence is that BP ultimate musy be super expensive(Sorry about the pun).
I understand that all fuel loses it's octane rating over time but the Shell apparently lost it before it even made it to the pump.
As mentioned above BP Ultimate 100 definitely seems better than V-Power 100 over here but obviously that doesn't help you folks in the UK.

[Beastlee]

JUst did some searching for fuel comparisons and this little gem appeared...

http://gasoline-germany.com/international.phtml
Intersetingly enough the UK is the second most expensive country for Super Plus after somewhere called Island. We rank 3rd or 4th int he normal unleaded too!

In additon I have been routing around lots fo forums as a result of my search and I find than many more people say they have switched from optimax as it was fine intially but the performance drop off over the tank, even in a couple of days, is noticable. Most who switched seem to ahve gone over to BP ultimate incidentally. This is the same across a varying range of cars in more than one country.

[tomaski]

I feel the need to add that a VR-4 will take up to a litre and a half of BP ultimate diesel mixed into a full tank of unleaded petrol.

Don't ask how I know this.

/pan

[Kieran]

Kieran, I'm afraid the argument that BP ultimate in the UK is a con based on it being lower octane rating than V-Power is insufficient.

I didn't say it was a con.... But the fact remains that in the UK V-Power and Tesco 99 are the closest we can get to Jap 100RON that these cars are mapped for and hence that's what most of us use.

[Beastlee]

Fairy nuff, but my question did refer to why it was a con hence my response.

Can I use my new smiley yet? http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=313800

[Robotnik123]

i think they probably meant methanol

I checked - apparently they mix 1L of methylated spirits with about every 15L of 98 octane petrol.

Interestingly, as of the start of this year the methylated spirits sold in NZ does not actually contain methanol anymore. This is to stop homeless people drinking it and going blind. I wonder if the GT-R people have noticed any increase in knock since?:inquisiti

[tomaski]

This is to stop homeless people drinking it and going blind.

This just made me laugh out loud and totally get busted for skiving.

:laugh:

[Robotnik123]

This just made me laugh out loud and totally get busted for skiving.

:laugh:

Shame on you for surfing dodgey car websites on company time! :p

It is true though.

[pitslayer]

when i used to run classics, i had an 81 mk1 golf GTi, i thought i would treat myself and the car to a full tank of bp ultimate....3 miles down the road it just start coughing and spluttering loss of power, and it just ran really badly...so drained it all out, filled up a jerry can with it, then the rest into a bucket. drove to the shell garage filled it full of optimax and it still ran badly until the optimax started coming through then it kicked back in to life....this is why i refuse to ever put bp in my car ever again

[DeanH23]

im using 95ron on my Ralliart VR4. id just wann know if they were mapped by RAlliart to use 95ron??? i knowthe limiter and speedo was changed to mph??

any idea/

[miller]

Dean,

Same question has been asked by a couple of the Irish lads as higher rated octane is harder to get hold of back home. Though someone did tell me Maxol are starting to roll out a 99ron across the country, may be worth keeping an eye out for it.

We havent heard of a remap to use 95ron i dont think as higher rated octane has always been available here in the UK.

Your ecu as far as im aware will retard itself to satisfy knock levels off 95ron juice.

Options are i presume expensive including additives on each tank?

Mike

[DeanH23]

hi

thanks mate i have a Maxol in my local town but there not big at all.

im getting a ecu from mine's and im undecided which fuel to get it mapped to i think they do 98 and 100 don't know about 95.

i don't mind putting in an additive it it gets me more power but how much??

so don't know what to do there

[DeanH23]

this 99ron would be maxols e5 yeah. its safe to use in the vr4 yeah. cause theres actually a couple quick close to me:happy:

[miller]

If you have the choice i would go with the 98 map that way you know you are over and above the requirements with Maxol's e5, plus if you ever get caught out and need to put 95 in im presuming it wouldnt be as bad as if it were mapped to accept 100ron.

Being a Cavan man they must look at you weird if your spending money on 'expensive petrol' :scholar: :scholar:

Sorry couldnt resist!


Mike


ps a Navan man giving a Cavan man abuse,,,when will it ever change!!!

[DeanH23]

hahahahah...

yeah id love to give you abuse back but i just spoke to a mate of mine from cavan too and he said why buy the more expensive fuel!!!!

funny enough too.. i also wear a meath jersey to training!!!!!!!! you wouldn't beleive the abuse i get too!!!!

not full blooded cavan man i think thats why..part longford,cavan,leitrim and roscommon.....

thanks im getting one of those mines ecus VX-ROM and they wanna know which to go for. i won't be doing big miles in it either so ill say to tune for 99ron and if they say its either 98 or 100 ill go with 98

cheers boss

[miller]

No worries!!!!!


Good luck and let us know how you get on? What price are you looking at for the mines ECU ie i would like a remap to accept lesser fuel type but still bring me up to the facelift power of 280

Mike

[DeanH23]

yeah its not cheap but ive tried every other tuner and company locally.

its gonna cost me €1000 but when i look at other piggy backs its cost more after you get some guy to fit it and tune it. they do give you more power than the mines because mines don't have the car to best tune it. but i like the way mines work and what they say. they focus on making the car driveable and use full advantage of the standard engine and they say that they recommend highly to use 100ron or close ive told them i have access to 99ron and they say thats fine for 100ron map.

ill let you know how it goes when i get driving it after. they say they don't up the boost but it says they can on request. i have greddy spec v FMIC so what would be a safe boost level do you think i have looked around and it seem the most would be 1.2-1.3 so if they can boost up ill probably go with 1.0-1.1bar

[bradc]

I think the mines vx roms are crap.

they are pretuned for a car, what happens if you change parts on the car or boost? you have to retune it. and it was tuned on someone elses car as well. They just aren't optimised very well to your actual car.

[DeanH23]

i am not gonna change anything big what sort of parts am i gonna change that would need a retune??

[bradc]

just about anything! intercooler, boost, exhaust, decat, plugs, fuel, etc etc

[DeanH23]

i have already changed all of these?? does the standard ECU optimise these Changes???

for me its my best option because of the cost. if i get a piggyback and then get a guy to tune it and fit it it will cost more.

im just after that little bit extra, not max out the cars potenial.

once fitted ill let you know how i find it.

i spoke to the guys and what they do is look at the modifications you have fitted and they save every ECU they have every re-tune and get the best comparison they have from ones they have tuned themselfves in japan with these modifications. the most important thing they wanted to know was what fuel i run.

also asked how much HP they gain but what they said was that they are not a company that aims for HP numbers. they offer a tune that will give the car a smoother power over the entire rev range.

its still gonna be way better than standard ecu.

[DeanH23]

o and they will increase the boost for me. what do the standard ones runon ralliart vr4 is it .7bar or higher??

[Kenneth]

I think the mines vx roms are crap.

they are pretuned for a car, what happens if you change parts on the car or boost?
Same as standard ECU. Nothing, because the ECU reads the MAF signal, finds mapping for input parameters and then calculates the correct AFR. As usual, except they almost certainly extend the mapping (or at least re-scale it) well beyond the standard maps.



and it was tuned on someone elses car as well. They just aren't optimised very well to your actual car.

Again, the joy of using MAF, it doesn't have to be specifically tuned on your car. It's like saying that an exhaust tuned on my standard car is going to run crap on someone else's car because it wasn't specifically tuned on their car and they have a 600*300*76 FMIC and boost controller.

If we were running MAP based systems this would be true. But it isn't.

[DeanH23]

thanks for the info,

so it doesnt matter what parts i change then??

have you had any experience of the mine's ecu or know of anybody that have used one??

[Kenneth]

thanks for the info,

so it doesnt matter what parts i change then??

have you had any experience of the mine's ecu or know of anybody that have used one??

Depends on which parts. Injectors and MAF do matter, intercooler, exhaust, plugs (so long as they are one heat range or more colder) will not.


I don't have any personal experience with mines, however I haven't heard anything bad about their products. That could be a reflection of me not exactly looking hard though... :P

[DeanH23]

Depends on which parts. Injectors and MAF do matter, intercooler, exhaust, plugs (so long as they are one heat range or more colder) will not.


yeah thats what i originally thought myself.

but i know that mines will not push the tuning like a dyno tune to find a safe higher boost level. and they will not provide an ecu if you change turbos and injectors and major compnents like that.

and i have went with the HKS M-series plugs havent got them from RHDJapan yet so i don't know the heat range. ever used them???

also i have Denso Iridium Power that are IK24's after reading on the forum i made sure they are IK24's.....:happy:

[Kenneth]

yeah thats what i originally thought myself.

but i know that mines will not push the tuning like a dyno tune to find a safe higher boost level. and they will not provide an ecu if you change turbos and injectors and major compnents like that.

and i have went with the HKS M-series plugs havent got them from RHDJapan yet so i don't know the heat range. ever used them???

also i have Denso Iridium Power that are IK24's after reading on the forum i made sure they are IK24's.....:happy:

The plugs I have used are the standard NGKs and Bosch super 4s (which I have yet to check to see how they are running) and not had trouble with them.
I have had really good results with the standard NGK plugs so wont stray too far (I do have a set of Irridiums with a 7 heat rating though, they will go in my Galant when I get around to it).

To be totally honest I wouldn't go with mines myself due to the cost/performance ratio... there are much cheaper products that can give you just as much, if not more in terms of power. I like to play with the car myself though, so I don't mind investing the hours for tuning etc.

[DeanH23]

yeah i suppose its how far you wanna take it.

what is your current setup??

im running 95ron, i think thats killing me the most. i was inspecting the plugs that were in it and they were denso PK20pr8 or something like that but they looked like they were never changed and the 3 under the intake were even worse.

[DeanH23]

but ill get it on a rolling road now and after the mines ecu is in and see what dif in power it makes but im not really after power i like the kick in the back in 1st,2nd and 3rd, so i wanna get the 0-60 time down really.

i was on my way home one night and had an Altezza overtake me something unreal dangerous and got pissed off and i really made sh** of him and i stopped in my town and he pulled up and asked what it was, he was not happy i passed him (Safely!!) and easily.

i likethe fact that not many people know what it is, over here anyway.

[shaun1978]

lol when the peelers got them up in belfast noone knew what they were so thought they could outrun them..... big mistake.

[Kenneth]

My previous VR-4 had the standard NGKs, 600x300x76 intercooler, LC-1 wideband, full exhaust (special mention of the 2.5" down pipes) and a manual boost controller... that did really well on the dyno. (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30229)

See the thread above for my dyno results. This is all on a standard ECU too mind. If you want kick in the back acceleration up to 4600RPM (which is where it just about flat lines) then that is the way to go.

If thats what you want, it might be more economical to spend your money on a full exhaust system and intercooler + piping.

[DeanH23]

what MAF Mod did you use or Do???

i have slitly more mods but pretty much the same, you use 98ron there and its quit hot too. hopefully it being a lot colder over here and lower lying it should help my results.

[Kenneth]

what MAF Mod did you use or Do???

i have slitly more mods but pretty much the same, you use 98ron there and its quit hot too. hopefully it being a lot colder over here and lower lying it should help my results.

If you take out the MAF and turn it upside down there is a hole that is filled with silicone. if you dig out the silicone there is a screw you can adjust. looking through the bottom of the MAF (from the back) you can see the piece it adjusts up and down. Adjust it so it is level with the bottom of the MAF.

I wouldn't advise the mod without being able to check your AFR (even though many have done so successfully)

[Beastlee]

A piggyback is only £250 with all the harnesses, fitting should be no more than £100. With something like an e-manage unit you start with the base map from the car and work from that. You can easily tweak it yourself and a road tune is much better than a dyno run any day. All in it should be about €500 which still leaves plenty of extra cash for other mods/dyno runs etc shoudl you want. The added benefit is that you can keep adjusting the map as you need.