standard suspension handling

[pitslayer]

was talking with a bloke 2 days ago, about fast estate cars. we talked about the leggy, and that he wants an audi RS4. we sat talking for a while, and we sort of both agreed with ourselves, that a fast estate car could be better handling than the saloon.
so is the legnum, better handling than galant on the standard shockers?
because the galant has had half the rear end sqaushed, the wieght isnt as evenly distributed as the legnum?

[Wodjno]

was talking with a bloke 2 days ago, about fast estate cars. we talked about the leggy, and that he wants an audi RS4. we sat talking for a while, and we sort of both agreed with ourselves, that a fast estate car could be better handling than the saloon.
so is the legnum, better handling than galant on the standard shockers?
because the galant has had half the rear end sqaushed, the wieght isnt as evenly distributed as the legnum?

All dependent on the car itself.. But this has been discussed on here more than once ( Search is your Best Friend :D )
The Volvo estates were chosen for there better weight distribution in Touring Car racing some years ago.. But thats another story..

And then theres Lard !! :thinking: And thats another story :scholar:

Search for Lard.. :inquisiti That will bring up some discussions.. /yes

And this is my 1st and 2nd last post on the subject :vulcan:

[Kieran]

I'd say the saloon's better in my experience. The Legnum feels more cumbersome and it's not got as much bracing at the back - the saloon has a bulkhead running under the parcel shelf.

[Wodjno]

/JawDroppi /dunce
I'd say the saloon's better in my experience. The Legnum feels more cumbersome and it's not got as much bracing at the back - the saloon has a bulkhead running under the parcel shelf.

[Physician]

And this is my 1st and 2nd last post on the subject :vulcan:

Liar! :thinking:

[pitslayer]

i can see where your coming from, Kieran. behind the rear seats on the saloon, it has a sqaure bulkhead, which will take alot of body roll out of the car. where as teh leggy, has a minimum of a U shaped bulkhead. ok so taking that into account, if both were to then have a strut brace fitted? what would you say then....
sorry im in an educational mood to day, because i have nothing else to do, sat in this god damn office with no phones ringing, and no work:computer: :computer: /wall /wall

[peter thomson]

When I fitted my strut brace you could tell that there was difference and there was less noise from the back end

[pitslayer]

did you fit a top or lower strut brace?

[peter thomson]

did you fit a top or lower strut brace?

Top mount strut brace. I haven't seen a lower rear one

[Davezj]

i didn't notice any difference when i fitted my top strut brace on the back of my Leggy. i am sure it would make a difference, but i did notice it. i even took it off for a month and fitted it back on, didn't notice any change. but then i wasn't going mad pushing the car to it's limits.

[Beastlee]

I fitted a dog guard, witht he way it braces the sides to the seat I'm sure it means I can corner at least 30mph faster than before on any bend /pan /pan

[Roadrunner]

The Volvo estates were chosen for there better weight distribution in Touring Car racing some years ago.. But thats another story..

Er, no, they weren't. The estates were chosen to do the '94 BTCC because they had a lower cD figure than the saloon for air resistance :) The estates were replaced by saloons the following year because the rules were changed to allow the use of aerodynamic aids which could be fitted to the saloons much more effectively than to the estates.

[bradc]

I do feel as if the legnum has low body rigidty around bumpy corners. You know how people reviewing convertables always talk about torsional stiffness? I sometimes have a feeling in corners that the whole car is twisting slightly. I would imagine that the galant would be better in that regard.

However, a Legnum does have closer to 50/50 weight distribution, especially when you move the battery to the boot, have a manual gearbox, etc.

[pitslayer]

ill be having my carputer in the boot and what not, so it should even the weight abit more....how i long for a manual box :( im not getting on with the tip box, because im essentially using it as an auto car, i hardly touch the tip i see no point in it what purpose does it serve? i feel less in control using the tip box

[bradc]

I found the opposite, I really really liked tip mode, it's just like having a manual without a clutch!

[TAR]

Pits, the tip mode is there for the times when you want to dictate the timing of the gearchange instead of letting the auto manage it. Driving in tip is very much like driving in a maual car with the obvious exception of the clutch.

If you want to drive the car with any gusto, use tip mode /rally ......

......unless of course you can't manage to time the changes properly!!

[pitslayer]

i can time them fine, but whats the point in me flicking it into tip, to change a gear, when the car will do it for me? i really cant get one with it, had it 2 weeks now, and im not growing to love the tipbox, love the car though.
my left foot is bored, i have no control over changing down, with a manual i can bring the clutch up when i want to. in a manual i can go to what ever gear i want to, and feel the car doing. tip, its trying to be something its not, a manual.
ive tryed it, i dont like it. it offers nothing that a manual can, and is no better than auto.

[Beastlee]

Tip works almost as well as the manual, it's just a case of practicing how to shift with it. I drive in auto mode a lot of the time but when I know I am going to hold gears, force a downshift or head through some twisties then I flick it into tip and make it do what I want. The main thing is to remember the downshift will be slightly delayed but you can start to account for it.


with a manual i can bring the clutch up when i want to
Ok, this is true but unless you're sat at traffic lights you should have the clutch engaged, otherwise you're freewheeling which is bad. Certainly in a VR4 with AYC you should be trying to keep a little bit of power on all the time. Ask Physician.


in a manual i can go to what ever gear i want to
Yes and the auto box will only shift in and out of the gears that are both safe and within the best torque range of the current speed/revs. In a manual you could shift into any gear but it's not necessarily the right gear, the tip mode helps you get the best of the power band. Add to that the fact you can shift down 2 gears at any time which should be all you need in 95% of situations and in the other 5% you should be shedding speed fast enough that it will let you shift all the way down.

I love my tip box despite always vowing never to own anything other than a manual and as long as I look after it it will cost me less than a manual with clutches.

As a footnote and not trying to be critical, surely you should have really taken this into consideration when buying your car? I made sure I was happy with an auto by test driving before I decided I would buy it.

[stuartturbo]

Top mount strut brace. I haven't seen a lower rear one
May I put you in the direction of the cusco lower 2 point brace does fit and would have done if not for the blueflame exhaust not quite tucked up enough
as for driving i very rarely use auto prefering to be in tip

I have also fitted an upper brace and it did make a seem to make a difference but the suspension is much lower and harder than std

I would expect the saloon to be much tighter on the rear as said before the volvo was only used for the low cd but the rigidity lost was replaced with the roll cage :inquisiti would be nice in the legnum I have seem a nice one before

Most stuff on std suspension is probably lost in seat dyno /lol

[peter thomson]

I thought it was just for the front suspension?

[stuartturbo]

fitted the 4 point up front and the 2 point fits both front and rear in theory

[SGHOM]

but whats the point in me flicking it into tip, to change a gear, when the car will do it for me? .

Have I just read that right ?? :speechles /Grrr /pan /pan /pan /pan /pan

[Beastlee]

LOL, Derek, has something upset you?

[Paul Beazer]

Kyle if you're not happy with an Auto / Tip gearbox and wanted a manual, WHY DID YOU BUY IT? Wouldnt it have been better to have a try in an auto before buying one first?

I prefer manuals, but having said that i havent really spent any serious time in an auto, so if i did decide to get a VR4, i would want to try an auto one first before comitting to buy!

[Beastlee]

Paul, that's exactly what I was trying to say earlier. I went with an attitude of I don't want an auto but then I drove itr and realised the merits, especially of a well looked after box. I was lucky with both my cars and they had already had new torque converters and extensive servicing.

[pitslayer]

if you put a manual VR4 in front of me and my VR4 in front of me, i would still take mine. i know where its come from, i know that it was in a poor state when it arrived, i know that Don spent hours and hours and lots of money getting her to the standard she is in now. i know the car has had all the service work done, i know every little dink on the car, and im like a pig in sh*t with it. i just cant seem to get on with the autos. hopefully the flappy paddle conversion might make it better /rally

i can get strut braces made for the car, so will fit the exhaust first, then get strut braces custom made... the joys of knowing a fabricator. ive got a stainless exahust on order, flappy paddles, skidpan, lcd mounts, and possibly now strut braces

[Paul Beazer]

I dont see why changing gear using a paddle shift, rather than the tip lever is going to help you get on with the gearbox any better though. Nothing will change with the way the car will drive, just the method of changing gear.

[pitslayer]

i want the feeling of a gearchange through my hand, the tip just feels like nothing. flappy paddles, set up a bit stiffer than the tip change, should feel a bit better

[Turbo_Steve]

That's a personal preference thing, but I'd suggest that you relax a little more and spend some time with the tip.

The trick is to start driving the tip slowly, and work up to it.

I mainly use my tip on longer cruises, with the family in the car.
When you come out of slow limits, or when you go to overtake another car, you can notch it into tip and put your foot down hard. The VR-4s make boost heinously early, so rather than the box chugging down to fourth and propelling you forward like a slingshot, you get smooth, gradual but still very rapid acceleration. This seems to help keep the fuel economy more sensible as well!

[Paul Beazer]

i want the feeling of a gearchange through my hand, the tip just feels like nothing. flappy paddles, set up a bit stiffer than the tip change, should feel a bit better
I fail to see how changing in tip mode using paddles is going to change your previous quote below. What is it you actually want from the car? Its never going to feel like a manual because it isnt a manual!

but whats the point in me flicking it into tip, to change a gear, when the car will do it for me? i really cant get on with it, had it 2 weeks now, and im not growing to love the tipbox, love the car though.

[Beastlee]

That's a personal preference thing, but I'd suggest that you relax a little more and spend some time with the tip.

The trick is to start driving the tip slowly, and work up to it.

I mainly use my tip on longer cruises, with the family in the car.
When you come out of slow limits, or when you go to overtake another car, you can notch it into tip and put your foot down hard. The VR-4s make boost heinously early, so rather than the box chugging down to fourth and propelling you forward like a slingshot, you get smooth, gradual but still very rapid acceleration. This seems to help keep the fuel economy more sensible as well!

Spot on Steve, I do exactly the same. On something like the autobahn slip roads it's more comfortable for my passengers to have the gear ready than to wait for the kick in the pants, neck snapping push that comes from the kickdown.

[Munta]

back to the original question - i have a lower rear strut bar fitted (see pic) Red bar at bottom you can see and the rear feels pretty stiff - currently looking for a top strut bar to go with as well ^_^