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CJay
27-03-2008, 09:46 AM
I recently undertook a full Amsoil flush and ATF change on the gearbox (+ ECU reset), I had absolutely no problems with gear changes previously but theres nothing like preventative maintanence!

Over the last couple of weeks, I noticed that the box would occasionally rev out in first gear from cold and jump into second. This didn't happen when warm.

On checking the ATF level (from hot), the level was about 5mm above the max 'hot' mark on the dipstick. Last night, I removed about a litre of ATF from the box to get things back in kilter.

This morning, the drive to work was pretty scary, gear changes from 1st to 3rd were very jumpy, in first when accelerating the revs would rise but it wouldn't change up to second for a few seconds, when it did change up, it did so with a jump. This was happening between 1st or 3rd gear all the way into work.

I checked the oil level this morning and its at the max 'cold' level on the dipstick when warm. Is the box very sensitive to oil levels? Should I be OK to drive the car home considering the erratic gearbox behavior?

CJ

Nick Mann
27-03-2008, 10:18 AM
The box is sensitive to oil levels. And Amsoil gives better changing characteristics in every VR4 I have seen/known it put in.

I assume you are cycling through the gears with the box nice and warm and the car on flat ground when you are checking the level? I'm sure you are, but it's always worth asking. I'd spend some time being sure that the level is right. In my experience, slightly too much is okay, but slightly too little causes big problems with gear changes.

CJay
27-03-2008, 10:47 AM
I assume you are cycling through the gears with the box nice and warm and the car on flat ground when you are checking the level? I'm sure you are, but it's always worth asking. I'd spend some time being sure that the level is right. In my experience, slightly too much is okay, but slightly too little causes big problems with gear changes.

Thanks Nick, If I'm honest, I'm not cycling through the gears prior to checking the level, I was under the impression that the level should be checked with the engine off. I'll get it warm on the way home, park it up, cycle through the gears and check the level and adjust accordingly. I just hope the jumpiness in gear changes isn't doing any damage to the torque convertor!

CJ

Physician
27-03-2008, 10:57 AM
Hi CJ,

Whereas Nick is 100% correct in all he says, I personally think that your 'problem' is simply that you disconnected the battery to reset the ECU and your box is going through the 'fuzzy logic' learning curve again. It will settle down in a maybe 100 miles or so. :happy:

CJay
27-03-2008, 11:04 AM
I personally think that your 'problem' is simply that you disconnected the battery to reset the ECU and your box is going through the 'fuzzy logic' learning curve again. It will settle down in a maybe 100 miles or so. :happy:

I hear what you're saying Physician, I've done about 300 miles since the change / flush - the fact that the box is behaving very erratically since I remove a litre of oil last night would make me think that theres too little oil in the box at present. I'll stick 750ml or so back in and see what happens.

At moment, I'm concerned about driving the car home with the box jumping and juddering all over the place :thinking:

CJ

Physician
27-03-2008, 11:26 AM
I hear what you're saying Physician, I've done about 300 miles since the change / flush - the fact that the box is behaving very erratically since I remove a litre of oil last night would make me think that theres too little oil in the box at present. I'll stick 750ml or so back in and see what happens.

At moment, I'm concerned about driving the car home with the box jumping and juddering all over the place :thinking:

CJ

Aha! OK - I agree with you. I didn't realise you had done that mileage already since the change.

After adding oil - obviously see what happens but you might then consider another battery disconnect to reset again.

Davezj
27-03-2008, 01:57 PM
cycling through the gears will drop the level of the oil at the dipstick.
if you have removed the oil without cycling through the gears then i recon your box is low on oil, you didn't just chuck the ATF you took out of the gear box did you? if so that was expensive.
also as i understand it you check the level of the oil with the engine running. correct me if i am wrong not sure if leaving it in park or nutral makes a difference. let me check my handbook.

EDIT:-
It doesn't say if the engine should remain running or not. BUT my Jeep specified the engine should be running when checking auto box oil level.

CJay
27-03-2008, 03:54 PM
Got a lift home at lunch and picked up some ATF, I put the guts of a litre back into the box - fingers crossed later on! Thanks for your help guys....

CJ

rees
27-03-2008, 04:57 PM
interesting , i mean mines a tad jumpy when cold ( ive just had a eurospec servive - box filled with amsoil)
and i also if im goin too slow in 5th its a bit lumpy when it gears down to 4th- but am sure that just because im not expecting it and it catches me off guard

Nick VR4
27-03-2008, 06:27 PM
As above go through all gears stopping momentarily at each position
Move the selector back to "N"
Wipe the dipstick and recheck level

Hope this helps

Beastlee
27-03-2008, 08:11 PM
Ok, I keep wanting to check mine and I always see this 'cycle through each gear' but this seems to relate to being stationary. My car will not do anything other than 1st and 2nd in tip mode which I know is for safe starts in icy/snowy conditions. Can anyone confirm the exact procedure or should I know this from the Member's section?

Davezj
27-03-2008, 09:14 PM
cycle through the gears means,

pause after each gear change for 5ish seconds

Park
Reverse
neutral
Drive
Neutral
Reverse
Neutral
Drive
Neutral
Reverse
Park

leave the engine runnig and then check the level.

Beastlee
27-03-2008, 09:49 PM
Thanks Dave. I suppose the confusion is that it isn't cycling through the gears as such.

CJay
27-03-2008, 11:04 PM
I drove a 4-speed tiptronic FTO for about 6 years, most owners are of the opinion that the ATF should be hot and the engine switched off when checking the level.

I checked the levels again this evening after the drive home from work (no problems with the box during the drive):

Cycled through the box, left stick in park with engine running - fluid level was at the bottom of the 'cold' level.

Turned engine off, waited for a few minutes and checked again - fluid was slightly above the max 'hot' level.

Davezj, you positive that you need to check directly after cycling gears with the engine on?

CJ

Kieran
27-03-2008, 11:48 PM
Check it in neutral with the engine running, not park. That's how the service manual instructs you to do it. The ATF flows a different route (a bypass valve opens) when in Park, so you'll get erratic readings.

Other than that, Dave is quite correct though. Cycle the gears, Return to 'N' and then check the level. Check it a couple of times though... That dipstick is a rubbish design and tends to scrape the tube walls as its inserted & removed - Again, this can lead to a misreading.

CJay
29-03-2008, 01:18 PM
I went through the recommended approach and ended up putting another litre of oil into the box until the dipstick showed 'hot' i.e. I was running 2 litres short :speechles Its a bit scary when you think that theres got to be a load of people out there checking the level with the engine off.

Thanks for your help guys.

CJ

Beastlee
19-06-2008, 05:11 PM
Ok, so the car jumped into limp home mode last night and again this morning. There are no signs of leaks anywhere but upon checking the level, when hot, it was halfway up the cold section.
After obtaining a litre of SP-III from Mitsubishi at £18 (Amsoil from Don is cheaper even after shipping!) I added half to the warm box. After leaving it to settle for 20 minutes I went back out and checked, it had reached the line between hot and cold. I've added almost all of the litre now and will check it when the rain stops.

Can anyone confirm if one litre of ATF would be right to bring it up from halfway into cold to the full hot mark?

CJay
19-06-2008, 08:14 PM
Can anyone confirm if one litre of ATF would be right to bring it up from halfway into cold to the full hot mark?

I reckon a litre should do it. I experienced very erratic gear changes when the fluid was low, if you're still 'limping', I'd be inclined to undertake a full flush and change. Dodgy input /output shaft sensors or speed sensors can sometimes cause the 'box to go into limp home mode.

CJ

Beastlee
19-06-2008, 08:41 PM
The box was driving OK if a little harsher on random changes and it only limped 3 times in total. Will have to wait until tomorrow morning toconfirm if it feels any better.
One suspicion I have is that it is a sensor or wire is triggering the fault. Needle and haystack are words that spring to mind!

enyawbrown
20-06-2008, 04:55 AM
Hi CJ,

Whereas Nick is 100% correct in all he says, I personally think that your 'problem' is simply that you disconnected the battery to reset the ECU and your box is going through the 'fuzzy logic' learning curve again. It will settle down in a maybe 100 miles or so. :happy:




I just recently ( 5 days ago ) had my automatic transmission (F4a42, the car is a JDM 1997 V6 ) totally rebuilt,torque converter and everything was drained of fluid. When we got the transmission back from the shop and installed it and everything, it took something like 8.7 quarts of ATF for fluid level to show on the tranny dispstick:thinking: Anywayz, we took the car for a drive afterwards and I was kinda a lil bit frightened because it was not shifting as smoothly as it should, then I remember the transmission is some sorta INVEC11 (well I think it is) and this transmission "learns" the driver's driving habits and gets used to it after awhile so to speak. I have done less than 15 miles since getting the car back, So I guess my transmission is just in its learning stage again I guess:speechles :speechles

ANd oh yeah, battery has been disconnected for sumn like 2 weeks prior so I guess my transmission is learning all over again my driving habits:inquisiti although it still is kinda weird-ish the shifting and all/Grrr

Ryan
20-06-2008, 05:19 AM
Yup - my AT was also rebuilt a while back and when I left the shop my car was stalling at the traffic lights and really misbehaving.

It all came right after about a 100km's or so because the battery had been disconnected during the rebuild etc etc

enyawbrown
20-06-2008, 06:21 AM
ok cool.......I barely done like 20 kilometres :happy: and I was worrying to myself saying damn, another set of problems /Grrr

Beastlee
20-06-2008, 06:57 AM
Did you both know about the fact you are supposed to leave the car to idle, with the air-con switched on, for the first 10 minutes to correctly set the idle level? I didn't when I did mine last.

Interestingly enough I bought the car last September and the torque converter seal had been changed only a month before. I don't know if it was ever really filled up properly and without any obvious leaks I wonder if the ATF fluid vaporises causing a small amount to be lost in gaseous form? It's the first time I've had any problems with the box and there's no other obvious problems so I'm not too worried .....yet.

peter thomson
20-06-2008, 08:22 AM
Have you checked the level again after running and the ATF is hot as that may not be enough ATF to fill the the box.


I just recently ( 5 days ago ) had my automatic transmission (F4a42, the car is a JDM 1997 V6 ) totally rebuilt,torque converter and everything was drained of fluid. When we got the transmission back from the shop and installed it and everything, it took something like 8.7 quarts of ATF for fluid level to show on the tranny dispstick Anywayz, we took the car for a drive afterwards and I was kinda a lil bit frightened because it was not shifting as smoothly as it should, then I remember the transmission is some sorta INVEC11 (well I think it is) and this transmission "learns" the driver's driving habits and gets used to it after awhile so to speak. I have done less than 15 miles since getting the car back, So I guess my transmission is just in its learning stage again I guess

ANd oh yeah, battery has been disconnected for sumn like 2 weeks prior so I guess my transmission is learning all over again my driving habits although it still is kinda weird-ish the shifting and all

bradc
20-06-2008, 11:08 AM
enyaw - you should check it again as per this thread to confirm you've got the right about in there.

enyawbrown
20-06-2008, 01:22 PM
enyaw - you should check it again as per this thread to confirm you've got the right about in there.

yes I have checked it....the level is ok:happy:

I had to change the input speed sensor also cause it was giving erratic readings and even made the Neutral light flash and made the engine race:speechles

Beastlee
20-06-2008, 01:40 PM
Well the box is definitely filled and the car is still driving very well but I still get this random switch to limp home mode. On the way to work it did it silently whilst sat at the lights, I didn't realise until I tried to pull away.
On the way home I was able to floor it up to 140mph still without issues and it was only when cruising at 80mph a few minutes later I suddenly got a smack in the back as it dropped into limp home mode. I dread to think what would have happened at speeds in excess of the 3rd gear range.
I'm now looking at different possibilities, especially sensors.

Beastlee
20-06-2008, 04:31 PM
Ok, so I've just done a run to work and back to collect my daughter. We took a friend along too and eventually ended up with 5 people , some suitcases and shopping.
As well as still being able to embarrass a few cars on the Autobahn there wasn't one problem with the box. Touch wood the ECU reset has fixed the glitch.

enyawbrown
02-07-2008, 01:38 PM
well my transmission feels much better now, although I'm not getting the true drivability outta the car because of a faulty camshaft sensor. Engine idles quite roughly but my baby still gets me around town to and from work:afro:

Beastlee
02-07-2008, 02:17 PM
Thought I'd best update to say that my ECu reset after the top-up has cured my problems.
Glad to here yours has less issues now too.