Declaration of penalty points

[Paul Beazer]

I've got 5points on my licence which were awarded in march 2005 (offence sept 2004). Do i still have to declare them as they are over 3 years old? I know you can get them taken off your licence after they are 4 years old.
Also a motoring conviction is not the same as a criminal conviction is it?

TIA

[elnevio]

I've got 5points on my licence which were awarded in march 2005 (offence sept 2004). Do i still have to declare them as they are over 3 years old? I know you can get them taken off your licence after they are 4 years old.
Also a motoring conviction is not the same as a criminal conviction is it?

TIA
The time period for the points is counted from the date of offence, not the date the court imposes them.

They are not counted under the totting-up process once they are over three years old, but remain on your licence for four years.

However, all insurance companies ask for any motoring convictions in the last five years, so they'll have to be declared until September 2009. And giving them any ammunition whatsoever (i.e. not giving full disclosure) will be a certain way to potentially invalidate an insurance payout!

And no, motoring convictions are not criminal convictions, although AFAIK, things like causing death by dangerous driving, and possibly drink-drinking, are criminal convictions.

I think this five year rule is a bit daft, because let's say you move house in October 2008 (i.e. points over four years old, but under five). You send your licence off to the DVLA, they send it back, sans points as you would expect. You apply for new insurance in December 2008 - they ask you about convictions in the last five years - where's the first place you look? That's right, your licence, which is clean. I know in reality you tend to know when you got points, but this is a potential pitfall which I think should be resolved by the time scales being brought in line with each other - either four years for insurance purposes and remaining on licence, or five for both.

Anyway, from experience, the points, once they're in year four or five, make no difference to insurance. I had six points for one offence in Dec 2002, and they made no difference to my insurance quotes even as far back as April 2004, when I first started having car insurance after several years of company cars. Of course, the problem may arise if you have more recent penalty points, and the insurance company looks at them all together. This is the great benefit of online insurance quotes, you can fiddle with all the settings (points, etc) to see if there really is any difference in quotes for varying circumstances. Obviously, you must declare all the required info, otherwise invalid insurance will ensue when you need it most!

[Paul Beazer]

Cheers Nev, but the reason for my posting not for insurance purposes (i wouldnt lie to an insurance co for fear of being left with nothing), but for a part time delivery driver's job.
Basically im wondering if i need to / should tell them about the 5 points for my AC10 (basically a clash of wing mirrors that was blown out of all proportion by the police / courts system).
They are still on the green part of the licence so they are visible at present.
Out of interest, can i get them removed in sept (i.e 4 yrs after the incident) when they are 4 yrs old or do i have to wait until 4 yrs from the date of conviction (march '05)?

[elnevio]

Oh I see!

Well, the points ARE on your licence, even if not valid for totting-up purposes. And I'm sure they'll want a copy of your licence?

I'm certain that you can get them removed once the four years from date of offence lapses. This is only fair, as you are supposed to declare any pending motoring convictions, so if there is a court case, you could end up effectively suffering the effects of a pending/actual conviction for longer than the prescribed period.

I think it costs about £25 for a new licence, unless you're moving, in which case it's free. But even if they are still shown on your licence (as mine from 2002 are), these can't be used against you, as they have expired. Doing so would, I'd have thought, potentially be discriminatory. Which kind of brings me back to the insurance companies' requirement to have the five-year limit for looking at points - could that be discriminatory too? Hmmm...