Evoscan on carputer?

[apeman69]

Anyone running Evoscan on a carputer for logging and/or displaying gauges?

Thinking of getting one of those miniITX computers linked to a touch screen single DIN head unit something like this:-
http://www.plasma.com/xenarc/mdtx7000.htm :happy:

I'd like a single DIN screen so I can keep my boost gauge where it is in one of the existing DIN 'slots' as the VR-4 ECU doesn't have boost readings available and so that the screen is not quite so visible from outside the car.

Would like to know if anyone's installed or running a similar setup and if it works well.

I've read all I can find on Evoscan on here and can't seem to determine if it can run without the flashy dash light scenario mentioned in other threads (wouldn't ideally want this). Seems that plugging the data cable into the car's OBD port invokes diagnostic mode but I hope I've interpreted this incorrectly.

Ideally I'd like the kit to provide video and music playback (anything a desktop computer would play) and use Evoscan (or whatever) to provide fancy info gauges most of the time I'm driving as well as logging info as required.

I'm OK with the technicalities of the in-car PC, touch screen, connection, set up etc just wondered if anyone's done similar and specifically, using Evoscan or similar software for gauge display.

Come on gurus, give me some clarity. :inquisiti

[sladde]

I've read all I can find on Evoscan on here and can't seem to determine if it can run without the flashy dash light scenario mentioned in other threads (wouldn't ideally want this). Seems that plugging the data cable into the car's OBD port invokes diagnostic mode but I hope I've interpreted this incorrectly.

Come on gurus, give me some clarity. :inquisiti

I can say that in 2.5 version there is below Logging
choice to "Disable Mitsubishi Dashboard Flashing Lights (also you should disconnect Pin-9 for AYC/ABS support too)"

[apeman69]

...choice to "Disable Mitsubishi Dashboard Flashing Lights (also you should disconnect Pin-9 for AYC/ABS support too)"
It's a goer then. Thanks :happy:

[pitslayer]

i will be soon....when i get the cable should have it up and running, can then do rear diff changes aswell

[sladde]

It's a goer then. Thanks :happy:

Haven't installed it to my laptop yet to try with car. :thinking:
Need to modify my cable first and before that there is too much going on my life like cleaning the house and getting car ready to final compliance before my baby girl comes to this wolrd in this Friday. :baby:

[rees]

:happy:
i will be soon....when i get the cable should have it up and running, can then do rear diff changes aswell
yeah me too :)

[White Lightning]

Anyone running Evoscan on a carputer for logging and/or displaying gauges?

Thinking of getting one of those miniITX computers linked to a touch screen single DIN head unit something like this:-
http://www.plasma.com/xenarc/mdtx7000.htm :happy:

I'd like a single DIN screen so I can keep my boost gauge where it is in one of the existing DIN 'slots' as the VR-4 ECU doesn't have boost readings available and so that the screen is not quite so visible from outside the car.

Would like to know if anyone's installed or running a similar setup and if it works well.

I've read all I can find on Evoscan on here and can't seem to determine if it can run without the flashy dash light scenario mentioned in other threads (wouldn't ideally want this). Seems that plugging the data cable into the car's OBD port invokes diagnostic mode but I hope I've interpreted this incorrectly.

Ideally I'd like the kit to provide video and music playback (anything a desktop computer would play) and use Evoscan (or whatever) to provide fancy info gauges most of the time I'm driving as well as logging info as required.

I'm OK with the technicalities of the in-car PC, touch screen, connection, set up etc just wondered if anyone's done similar and specifically, using Evoscan or similar software for gauge display.

Come on gurus, give me some clarity. :inquisiti

I am thinking about doing exactly this if/when I have the spare cash. Although, I would want to have a double din touch screen instead. I will be interested to hear how you get on /yes

[phosty]

My plan too - but thus far the flashy dash issue has stopped me. I have all the hardware ready to go - just waiting for a fix.

[Nick Mann]

The flashy dash is only whils stationary. As soon as the car is moving at more than walking pace the flashy dash doesn't.

[phosty]

I know, I know - it just bugs me though. Along with all the other rattles and squeaks I'm trying to eliminate!

[apeman69]

I can say that in 2.5 version there is below Logging
choice to "Disable Mitsubishi Dashboard Flashing Lights (also you should disconnect Pin-9 for AYC/ABS support too)"

Nick, are you using v2.5 of Evoscan? (If not then why not: it's free and released in August? :evilgrin: )
If so then can you confirm that what sladde said above does the job?
Yes the flashy dash may only be at stand-stlll but it would bug me all the same. :baby:

Anyone know how transportable settings/gauge designs etc are from PC to PC because ideally I would like to configure Evoscan on my desktop PC and then port any data required to the carputer. I don't want to be farting about with designing gauge displays whilst sat in the car. Carputer would be for 'entertainment' rather than creativity.

:2thumbsup Thanks for the responses: I'm getting a bit excited now! /toycar

[apeman69]

... I have all the hardware ready to go - just waiting for a fix.
Phosty, any links to the bits of kit you got? I've been searching for a while for computers and screens but you may have found something different. :inquisiti

[rees]

but i thought flashy das was only in diagnostic mode i.e. when your playing about with afr for example
why would it booother yu so much ?
btw the hand held halo data logger doesnt do it it says
look it up on ebay , abooot £80 tho !

[phosty]

Apeman - I have gone for a very cheap and cheerful setup. I have an old laptop feeding svid out through a svid-to-composite convertor (passive) into a cheapo chineese 7" double din head unit (£90ish of eBay - Eonon) that accepts video in.

With a simple screen the graphs look readable - but you can't read fine text. I was then planning to get one of those stick on touchscreens for input.

Wires are everywhere so it's just proof of concept so to say. If I can live with the quirks of a carpc I would gradually upgrade to a proper touchscreen and vga output.

[ҢдщҚ]

Laptop's a neat way to do it on the cheap.. As for designing graphics apeman, If you know the native resolution of your Screen you can design your graphics around this. This way it wont up scale / dowscale and make all your graphics look poop. So if your in 640 x 480 on the DIN Screen ! In your graphics package make this your workarea. Once saved in the appropriate file ext. Your ready to load it upto your Car pc from your desktop. Any more prob's shout em out. i have EVOSCAN running on my laptop. I have nothing to plug it into yet, but i had a mess with the graphics config / design.

Apeman get excited, I am..

[pitslayer]

like said ive already got a carputer up and running in mine, its complicated yet simple to do. it can also be expensive, when i get chance ill write up a guide on how to do one

[apeman69]

I don't have a problem with putting it all together. :scholar: I need to make sure I get the right components for the job: good PC, great screen, software front end (I have access to Centrafuse), Evoscan working as I would like it.
:happy: I have found the PC I intend to buy (£338). The screen has got to be the Xenarc MDT-X7000 because it looks the business in terms of PC compatibility and future connectivity though I cannot yet find a UK distributor. :sad3:
I will be e-mailing the manufacturer today to find out if it can be sourced in the UK at a reasonable price. Xenarc want $799 and I have found another US company doing them for $646 but, as of yet, I have not got a shipping cost.
The Evoscan software is going to be bought anyway ($25 is nothing!). :deal2:
I will probably get the OBD cable from the Evoscan people (with pin 9 missing for the ABS & AYC).
It'll work out at about £750 altogether and I'll fit it all myself. This is going to be a very similar setup (though the PC I will get is of a higher spec) to one I have seen a UK company selling for £1700 fitted! :speechles

:thinking: Just wanted to be sure on a few points e.g. Evoscan flashy dash, best place for fitment of PC unit (one of those Voom2 cases), portability of data (gauge designs) from desktop PC to carputer.
At this point I am ready to buy everything except the screen so, Hawk, I AM GETTING VERY EXCITED - the neighbours heard me shout that!

/help So, location of the PC box itself..... was thinking either glove box (if there will be enough room to enable CD/DVD insertion and ejection), under passenger seat where my original Mitsy sat nav CD drive is (again limited usability of DVD drive), or in the boot. Any ideas, observations or comments.
Ideally I wouldn't like it in the boot unless it will fit in the left hand side compartment that the original Mitsy CD changer was in however, access to the DVD drive that will be in the PC would definitely be a problem. However, use of the Xenarc will at least mean that the PC DVD drive would not necessarily need to be used at all - Xenarc DVD drive is recognised as a system drive by the PC under Windows OS.
This carputer thing is a life-long commitment so I'm going to get it right and ensure that the system components will meet my requirements now and in the future.
Thanks for your help so far and keep giving me advice and suggestions./YMaster

[ҢдщҚ]

Maybe these may be of some interest ? Sorry if these links have been posted up before. However relevant here ! Enjoy ;-)

PC system DIN size 1GHz/512Mb/40Gb
http://www.in-car-stuff.com/shop/system-size-1ghz512mb40gb-p-283.html

CarPC Install idea's
http://home.mchsi.com/~deviaant/2DeviousEvoCarPC.html

[pitslayer]

2 important components i see missed off there.
On/Off controller, Cd player with line in thats minimum extra 80-160 on top.
as for putting the pc in the glovebox, unless your going single din, you have nowhere to put your cd player

[pitslayer]

here yo go, for a rough idea of whats involved in just getting a screen to fit
http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29830

[ҢдщҚ]

Apeman looks like this unit you MUST have is rare as hens teeth in the UK. Give these people a call. They did have them, Temporarily unavailable, I would give em a call.. .. Here you go .. . .
http://www.in-carpc.co.uk/diyacc.htm

[apeman69]

Apeman looks like this unit you MUST have is rare as hens teeth in the UK
That's the company I emailed this morning. Their reply was:-
"Thanks for your email. Unfortunately we have decided to temporarily stop selling the MDT-X7000, due to reliability issues. We may be stocking this unit in the future, but it's more likely to be a matter of months rather than weeks I'm afraid. The price that we were charging was £395.63 + VAT, although of course this may change if and when we re-stock." :5shots: :speechles

Kyle, the on/off controller is integrated with the PC bios and the 'intelligent' power supply. This is a somewhat standard feature when you buy a car PC that has been designed for use in a car. /pan Trust me, it's more refined than your system. I've read your screen install before and this is not how I want to proceed. I want a hideable screen with a CD/DVD drive and amp in the same single DIN sized unit. As I said previously I have one DIN space taken up by my boost gauge (which Evoscan cannot emulate hence the need to keep it in preference to a hideous pod mount). See picture below (and, yes, I would be moving the boost gauge to the lower DIN position when installing screen). The PC gubbins is then also hidden away. CDs or DVDs used for whatever purpose (including PC operation) would be accessed via the screen/head unit combination.
There are plenty of VGA monitor only units, a few monitor and amp/radio units but I have only found the one unit which acts as VGA monitor/stand-alone CD/DVD player/PC data disc drive etc. Now I am told that this Xenarc unit has been found to be unreliable. :( :sick: :(

[apeman69]

Hawk, the link you posted to the in-dash car PC:-
http://www.in-car-stuff.com/shop/system-size-1ghz512mb40gb-p-283.html
it's a Lilliput without the branding.
This company is also selling the Lilliput single DIN screen:-
http://www.in-car-stuff.com/shop/wide-screen-dash-touchscreen-monitor-p-281.html
They're asking £449 for PC and £300 for screen.
I've seen the Lilliput screen AND PC on sale for around £449 for both I think it was. So anyone considering buying this stuff should shop around. BTW the spec of that PC is crap. I'm going to get a 2GHZ processor, 1GB RAM, 160GB HDD setup for £338 from UK supplier. Can be bought for less from the States but, as usual, warranty claims would be a pain. /Grrr

That Pioneer head unit in the Evo looks interesting. PC text seems readable. Anyone experience of some sort of VGA to RCA conversion? What I'm thinking is if that Pioneer doesn't have a VGA input (I'm late for work and I've gotta go really so can't do any research til the morning) then there must have been some sort signal converter employed. If this is the case (and I haven't read the info on the Evo yet) then, theoretically, any in-dash DVD player head unit could do for a display though I'd still have to position the PC somewhere appropriate for CD/DVD access because the head unit wouldn't be recognised by Windows.
Is it too much to ask that more than one company make a real 'all-in-one' head unit?

[phosty]

One thing that has put me of a complete carpc install (i.e. no other head unit) is the bad reports I read about the sketchy reception of most USB controlled RDS radio units.

This seems to be the best:

http://direct.xtronic.be/products/hqct-am-fm-usb-radio/hqct-i.html

But I would like to find a UK supplier so I could test it and return it if not up to scratch. Any thoughts / experience on other tuners that can be controlled from the carpc touchscreen?

[phosty]

Given my past experience with other non-mainstream brands products I'm very reticent to go for any of these all in one solutions. What happens if the monitor breaks or you want to put a faster processor in?

If you can get them cheap then great - but at the prices you're quoting then I would be twitchy.

[pitslayer]

see i dont like single din, i think the fold out is just wrong and not keeping within the stock look. like my boost gauge is hidden out of view from everyone but me

[apeman69]

Phosty, the set up I'm after comprises 2 boxes:-
1) Car PC which is motherboard & CPU, power supply, hard disc, DVD drive all of which is within a very small box about the size of a CD changer. Any of these components are upgradeable just like a home desktop PC. You are not limited in this respect, as you would be to a degree with a laptop. With these MiniATX systems (or whatever they're called) the processor and motherboard seem to be provided as a bundle in that if you want to change the processor then you change the motherboard too. No problem though 'cos you're looking at sub-£100 for this item. Yes, the Lilliput 'all-in-one' thing is, frankly, a load of crap in my mind, and way overpriced at that!
2) Screen of some sort. I could get by with a simple 'stick on yer dashboard' type or a 'monitor and nothing else in a DIN sized box'. However, I would like a bit more flexibility. A head unit that acts exactly like a DVD player head unit when you don't want to run Evoscan or any other PC application. A head unit that can be used as a CD or DVD-ROM with the car PC when you need it to (installing software for example). This will eliminate the need for inserting discs into the Car PC DVD drive which will not be located as conveniently as a head unit would. USB port(s) on the monitor so that I can plug in one of my many USB keyboards/mouses(?) when I need to do a bit of proper computing. Again, no USB port on the monitor means I'm struggling to find and attach a small plug to a small socket somewhere in a small space: not ideal. The beauty of the Xenarc unit is that you don't have to use the PC/touch screen/Centrafuse or equivalent to listen to music or watch films: it can run without having an input from the PC. Oh, and you can turn the PC on or off with buttons on the head unit..... cooooool

In reality using a cheapo monitor in the dash would mean:-
Listening to music/watching films would primarily be restricted to media stored on the PC hard disc. Not really a problem but I like to have the flexibility of writing a CD/DVD on my desktop to be played in the car. Unless the CD/DVD drive in the car PC setup is in the dash (i.e. the head unit I want) I would be swapping discs in the boot or in the glove box or under the passenger seat. The Xenarc one has the DVD/CD drive in the DIN sized monitor unit and this drive (unlike any other) can be accessed from the car PC as if it was a CD/DVD drive directly connected to the car PC. This offers the ultimate functionality and is so implicitly logical that I cannot understand why any other manufacturer has not jumped on the band wagon. This is true integration of in-car computing and in-car stereos. So simple yet so elusive.
Also I'd have two CD/DVD drives to use with the PC: one inside the PC and one in the head unit.

I can't help with the radio thing as I've probably only used the radio in the car when I've accidentally knocked the source button and it's flipped over to some crackling noise (I don't even bother connecting the aerial!)

I can get the car PC (2.0Ghz processor, 1GB RAM, 160GB HDD) for £338 but I don't want to put a link to it because they've only got 3 in stock at the moment and one of them is going to be mine once I source an appropriate screen. When I've ordered the PC I will gladly put a link to it if anyone would be interested. BTW they do a 1.5Ghz processor one for £295 and they have a lot more than 3 of those in stock.

At the moment it looks as though I'm gonna have to get one of those cheapo Chinese VGA non-motorised monitors off e-bay (so I can throw it away when I can find the Xenarc or equivalent) and put up with a bad back from fiddling under the passenger seat every time I want to use a different disc.

[pitslayer]

see that is one advantage of mine, the laptop is in the boot, the cd player is in the glove box, no need for me to get a bad back.

to be honest i would save up and get the xenarc instead of blowing cash on a cheap chinese one.


as for watching dvds, ive got a dvd player at home, in all the time ive had the car pc, ive watched 2 or 3 things on there max. you cant watch it whilst driving, and when your not in your car, your at home, in work or down the pub ;) well i am.

if you go a similar route i did, then you just store all your cds/mp3s on your harddrive, and make a playlist, im not sure i see the point in getting a car pc and still using cds for music, unless its to load onto the car pc.

if you need a hand with it though im sure my mate will give you a hand doing an install

[apeman69]

I am thinking about doing exactly this if/when I have the spare cash. Although, I would want to have a double din touch screen instead. I will be interested to hear how you get on /yes
I have seen some double DIN VGA monitors with a DVD/CD drive and amp in the unit so this would be ideal coupled with a 'proper' car PC tucked away somewhere (none of this 'old laptop with the cracked screen hidden under 5 miles of wiring near to the power inverter in the footwell malarky) :evilgrin: .
e.g. http://www.in-carpc.co.uk/diyacc.htm
The double DIN one on there is also known as a CID650 amongst other names. Googling should reap benefits for anyone interested. The DVD drive in this one can only be used with a PC though so all your media would have to be accessed through the PC. This is more like a true PC setup as we know it: songs/films accessed via computer software rather than the head unit just playing the disc. This would be useless as a stand-alone car stereo head unit. Wouldn't need a DVD drive in the PC though so a couple of quid saved on that perhaps. Your solution is out there whenever you're ready.

[apeman69]

to be honest i would save up and get the xenarc instead of blowing cash on a cheap chinese one.

THE DAMN XENARC ISN'T AVAILABLE AND THERE APPEAR TO BE RELIABILITY ISSUES. Nor does any other single DIN VGA monitor with CD/DVD drive and built in amp and USB input seem to be available either. Pay attention will you? Saving up is not the issue (or even a consideration).
The whole point of this is that in 2008 a car PC setup should be flexible, useable and future-proof (to the point where any PC system is). A car PC should be the equivalent of a desktop PC in terms of functionality and practicality and I am trying to achieve this within the realms of product availabilty. This is to be achieved as financially economical as possible (not necessarily 'on the cheap'). I do not want a laptop rattling in my boot and a CD player in my glove box and a power inverter under my fiance's feet and a touch screen glued into my fascia. At home I do not switch my computer on in the bedroom, put my CD in in the kitchen then change tracks in the toilet! (No offence to anyone operating this in-home setup.)
Yes, I will use CDs to play in the car PC as much of the stuff I listen to is broadcast over digital radio, shoved on the internet by some kind soul then downloaded to my PC. It is put onto CD so I can listen to it and then give it to my friends who have similar musical taste to myself. Anyway, it doesn't matter what I want to do with what..... a car PC should be as similar as possible to any other PC or, to me, it isn't a PC.

I've lost the point of this thread altogether now. I'm off to order Evoscan and a cable. PC tomorrow, screen after I've had a sleep and a think.

[pitslayer]

actually all my comes on as one, and i dont touch the cd player, and my laptop is a fully functioning laptop and theres nothing under my passenger seat, nor do i use an inverter, its a DC-DC regulator....apart from rubbish /lol

you can do it what ever way you want i couldnt care less to be honest. mine works and functions like a pc, when im at home, i use the computer as a computer, not an entertainment center.


Yes you can use Evoscan whilst driving, you really need something like an apexi fuel controller and maybe the wideband lambda sensor, but the fuel controller is needed to log everything how it is, whats going on. yes you can use the dials on evoscan whilst driving if you have the above. infact you can use any skin you want for the dials, bars or graphs. when we did it, we used a second computer to log it onto, not onto the car pc

[apeman69]

Evoscan bought, downloaded and installed on desktop PC.
OBD cable ordered.
PC ordered. The third one down the page with 2Ghz processor:-

http://linitx.com/viewcategory.php?catid=201

Now for a screen......:thinking: /Grrr :speechles :5shots:

[apeman69]

Screen ordered. I opted for one of these because it, at least, has a built-in amp thus it can directly replace my Alpine head unit.
Yes, it may well pack up in a few months but that's the chance you take. Not ideal but it should do until I can source something more appropriate for me.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lilliput-7-In-Dash-TFT-LCD-Touchscreen-VGA-Car-Monitor_W0QQitemZ300252531479QQcmdZViewItem?hash=i tem300252531479&_trkparms=72%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C24 0%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Just gotta wait for delivery now :2thumbsup /toycar

[Turbo_Steve]

I'd hide a laptop USB DVD drive (i.e. ultra slim) behind the sunglasses holder. So you can open it, push the button and the tray appears.


My last Scoob had a PC in it, and the only time I ever used the CD slot was when I bought a CD in town and listened to it on the way home. As I mainly buy online now, I wouldn't miss it.

The biggest thing is WiFi. Mine would find my home Wireless network when i parked on the driveway. It would power up and sync with my server automatically at 0400 every morning.
It would also attempt a sync whenever the engine was switched off, on the basis that some downloads may have completed whilst I was away from home.

[apeman69]

Good info Steve, thanks :thinking:

[phosty]

I think I would agree - most solutions are a compromise of some sort. Depends what you want - and everyone differs in that respect.

Anyway, that Lilliput head unit does look very interesting - keep us updated on how it goes. Unfortunately my el cheapo double din screen isn't a touchpad so you can't control the head unit without the remote even though the laptop can be controlled from the stick-on touchscreen pad.

I have been toying with going whole hog with the Innovate dataloggers, sensors etc (already have the LC1) since that doesn't interface directly with the car ecu via the odb port - and thus no flashy dash annoyances a la evoscan. And their logworks software can do similar (if somewhat simpler looking) dials, gauges etc as evoscan.

[apeman69]

I'll keep this updated as I progress and get me ol' camera out now & then too.

[apeman69]

Some of my kit arrived today (PC & keyboard). Here are some pics. Took me 1.75 hours to put the PC together: it came as a kit which I knew in advance. No problems with the assembly however, the completed unit is more like the size of my amplifier which I haven't fitted because I didn't really want it in the boot./Grrr

Anyway, change of plan because the PC is so bloody big! Think it's gonna have to go in the boot within some sort of custom made removable enclosure with the sub and amp so this project is just getting bigger.
Obviously need some extension cables now so I'll update when there's something else to say.

[ҢдщҚ]

My cable came today for the car i aint purchased yet. I ordered the one that prevents the flashy dash (no pin 9 ). Let us know how your getting on. I cant wait to try it !

[apeman69]

Just a quick update.

The car PC is on my desk and I am installing Windows XP as I type. I forgot how long it takes to format a new hard drive!:speechles
I have been in discussion with linitx (PC supplier) over the DVD drive that they sent me. On the website, when I ordered and up until I e-mailed them, the PC bundle included a DVD writer. They sent me a CD writer. /pan
The IDE connector/changer included with the kit does not allow me to change the jumper settings so that the DVD drive is recognised as a slave device. This drive is set as a master device in the drive's firmware and cannot easily be changed. I was always of the understanding that a boot disc (hard drive) HAS TO BE set as the master device on IDE channel 0. Linitx have told me differently and I have connected the (wrong) DVD drive as per their instructions so that I can at least install Windows and get on with the project. On a couple of occasions, when rebooting the car PC, the drives have not been recognised correctly so maybe my suspicions about IDE connections were right. This would not be good for a car PC setup where the only method of reboot would be ignition off/ignition on!

I am waiting for a reply concerning their mis-advertising of the PC bundle's contents. They had the nerve to imply that it could be a supply problem however, I pointed out to them that they have 6 PC bundles available now and 259 of the correct DVD drive that I ordered!:5shots:
Once I queried the fact that the DVD drive I received was not the one I ordered the info on the website changed so they now only supply a CD writer and not a DVD writer. There is no information concerning the necessity to set the hard disc to a slave device and I am not wholly convinced that this will not cause problems in the future should I use this DVD drive.

Anyway I have (not very nicely) put it to them that they send me the correct DVD drive ASAP and without any further cost to me.
This bullsh1t has cost me almost 2 days in terms of project completion.

I am out shopping for various wires, connectors and extension cables tomorrow so i can at least start ripping up the carpet and trim and get some wires in and, more importantly, a firmer idea of what is going to where and what cable is going to feed what.

Still waitng for delivery of the screen - should be any day now!

Evoscan cable arrived from Hamish in New Zealand today.
I got the official one and it's got an extra connector on it which I guess is the ECU flash connector. I've taped this up to the OBD connector so it doesn't dangle in the car as the OBD cable will be a permanent fitment in the car. Yes, it was expensive compared to the VAG ones or equivalent but I couldn't be bothered modding the cable when I've so much more important work to do with the PC/amp/boot enclosure.

4 USB ports on the PC and I'm quickly running out (screen, wireless keyboard, Evoscan cable) so I connected a two port USB block out of one of my old PCs to the motherboard and ran the cable out of the back so I've now got 6 USB ports!

/Grrr /Grrr /Grrr /Grrr
My power supply has just died at 97% hard disc formatting!/Grrr

:thinking: :thinking: :thinking:
I have now got the car PC connected to an old computer motherboard that is connected to a PC power supply that has a power connector chopped and wired into the car PC. The style of PC power supply I have has to be connected to a motherboard to get the on/off signal from a switch on the PC case before it will supply power (I think). It's working anyway.
AAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!

[apeman69]

Windows up and running.

Evoscan & Centrafuse installed & configured.

Awaiting cabling deliveries.

Going to see my carpenter tomorrow evening to measure up the boot enclosure.

The amount of cabling required is going to be ridiculous.

Design so far:-
PC in the boot along with amp & sub housed in a custom-built enclosure. VGA screen in-dash (motorised flip out type). Permanent OBD cable connected and running Evoscan. Wireless keyboard with on-unit joystick/mouse. 2xUSB ports to be mounted in ash tray or sunglasses holder. Ideally need a DVD drive within reach of driving position and the 2 dash-mounted USB ports will facilitate this in the future should I decide to do it.

PC & amp wired to panel mounted extensions in the frame of the boot enclosure. Basically I'm going to wire all the inputs and outputs of the PC and amp to two separate panels in the enclosure with the appropriate connectors to allow quick and easy connection/disconnection of the PC/sub/amp box.

I have to extend these connections (at least):-
From the PC: 12V+, 12V+ ignition, VGA, audio out, 5 x USB ports (surprising how many USB ports you can use up very quickly). PC capable of running 8 from the board and I'm going to install 6 in total.
From the amp: 12V+, sub in (2xRCA)
Each extension cable is in the region of 3-5m long so there's gonna be a lot of wires to shove under the carpet/trim.

Still awaiting delivery of screen but it's coming from the U.S. and it's only been a week now.

I'm behind schedule because of the 'wrong DVD drive' issue, which has not yet been resolved.

Will be working on the enclosure's connection panels whilst waiting to hear on the DVD drive. I can't put the PC case together until I know if I'm going to get a replacement drive.

It's difficult to visualise how this is going to end up (even for me) and I'll get some pictures up as soon as I get near the car with any sort of wire!

It's frustrating that I'm hanging about waiting for this or that though it's allowing me to firm up my ideas of what specifically will go where and how it's all going to interact.

[elnevio]

Al

I'm not going to pretend I know anywhere near enough about carputer installs, and I know that you now seem to be planning to put it in the boot somehow, but I note on one of your earlier posts that you were considering the space under the passenger seat as a possible location. Just in case you revisit this option, it's worth noting that the blowers under the seat might cause issues, especially in colder weather: I've found that the standard CD changer (UK-spec V6) suffers, apparently from the unit heating up too quickly and condensation forming inside the unit - i.e. on the CDs and preventing them from playing until the condensation has evaporated. This might not be an issue for a carputer, but potentially worth a heads-up as if it is an issue, it might not be something that would come to light until the colder weather!

Of course, this info might be entirely useless! But hey-ho...

[apeman69]

Thanks, Nev.
Yes, I believe that could be a problem as the CD/DVD drive in the PC would be subjected to the same temperature changes.
I'm definately going for the boot now with the option of installing another DVD drive elsewhere if I really need one (compromise number one of ONLY one I hope!).
I was considering under the seat before I got the PC and saw how big it was. The PC is very similar in size to my Fusion amp and last time I checked I was of the firm opinion that under the passenger seat was a no go for the amp: gotta be the boot. I've had this amp under the passenger seat of a gen 5 Celica, a gen 6 Celica and a Ford Mondeo with no issues whatsoever. It just will not go comfortably under the Leggy's passenger seat. I've thought about getting a smaller amp before but the Fusion is a nice piece of kit, with sentimental value too!
Should be easier (!!!!!??) to wire everything to the same location.... I hope!

[apeman69]

Lilliput screen arrived from USA this afternoon. It looks good but I haven't connected it up in the house yet. A bit disappointed that there isn't an ISO connector (all bare wires) for the power and speakers (screen has in-built amp) because this is another bunch of wires to connect up.

Met with my mate Phil this evening (the carpenter who's going to make the boot enclosure). He should have a box ready for a trial fit before the weekend.
Discussed cooling and mounting options with him and he's excited about building the box for me. He's going to do all the connector cutouts for the PC and amp and the mounting holes for the USB connections in the ash tray.
We did some useful test cuts on the ash tray plastic and I'm getting excited myself about the boot enclosure (that I never really wanted!)
He said now he has the measurements for the Leggy he could make up a kit if there was any demand.
He's making me a box that will fit against the back seats and between the wheels with a dividing panel so that the sub is on one side and the amp and PC are on the other side next to it. The sub is to be mounted on a 2 inch raised platform so that anything that may be rattling about the boot is more likely to hit the box frame rather than the sub. The amp will be on a raised platform and the PC on a raised platform above the amp. The dividing panel and platforms can be mounted wherever required. There will be space under, over and around each of the components to aid cooling/airflow. The front of the box will be covered where needed. He's going to fix a grille to the top and bottom of the front to help with airflow (and aesthetics).
The doodles below show some idea of how it will look (without the front boxed in - internally) and the finished article, both from the front. I've asked Phil to take some pictures during construction and I'll put them up 'cos my doodles are rubbish.

Linitx e-mailed me about the DVD drive and 'as a gesture of good will' they are sending me the correct drive that I ordered: RESULT!

Got all the cables and connectors in the house or in transit apart from something that will connect a 4AWG wire with some sort of easy connecting mechanism rated at 60 amps (this is for the amp's power lead and earth lead). All I can find at the moment is a 60A connecting block: the plastic connector things that secure wires by a screw recessed in the plastic.
As an example of what I'm after I've got a standard kettle connector (have a look at yer kettle!) for the PC power cables: three terminals, 12V+; 12V+ ignition; 12V-
For the amp power and earth lead I need something with a holding device that will take a thick cable (4AWG is something like 1000 strand cable) and tighten on to it securely with a socket for one end and a plug for the other, rated at 60 amps. Both socket and plug MUST be insulated as I wouldn't want the amp power lead to touch the car body! Would anybody who understands this care to give me some ideas? I'm stumped at the moment. All I can find is a standard plastic connecting block or a car amp distribution block. Don't want to have to find a screwdriver or allen key when I need to take the PC/amp/sub box out of the boot. Thanks all.

[apeman69]

Ooops..... the doodles...... well I have been awake since 5am!

[Turbo_Steve]

Good project, Some additional info for you:

Putting a jumper wire between pins 3 & 4 of your powersupply will switch it on, eliminating the need for the additional motherboard.

Not sure if you have a Numleg or a Galant, but if it's a numleg, why not mount the PC behind the boot trim on the Left hand side, with the front (DVD tray) poking into the storage cubby. So it's completely hidden unless you remove this door. This will also allow additional cooling.

[apeman69]

Steve, yeah, the power supply/motherboard thing is just a temporary 12V supply for setup and testing. The old motherboard is still inside it's PC case so it was a quick and easy solution with an on/off switch that came in quite handy when setting up the PC as there were many occasions I needed to cut off the power to the PC.
I got the Leggy and I thought about the PC in the trim panel you mentioned but the idea of an all-in-one removable box has grown on me: clean and simple and the PC can be oriented to personal taste.
Any suggestions on the amp power connectors?..... Any one?

[apeman69]

Most of the wires have arrived now. I've labelled them up (so I know what goes to what and in which direction!) I'll stick them all on the floor and take a picture for a laugh. Soldered a couple of connections this evening - most will not need to be soldered, thankfully.
Linitx sent me the correct DVD drive today and I connected it to the PC then the Seagate hard disc on the car PC died! Doesn't spin up so it's goosed. This model of drive has been reported as problematic (certain batches with specific firmware revisions). Waiting to hear from them on a solution: preferably refund 'cos they only seem to stock the model of hard disc that has kicked the bucket.
One day I'll screw the PC case together and that will be one job completed. Every aspect of the project is in the process of getting done without anything being completed so my head's all over the place.
This evening I had planned to swap the DVD drives, boot it up, plug in the Lilliput and configure the PC for optimum operation with the screen. Instead I messed about with the hard disc and got rather deflated.
I've sourced a power connector for the amp. It's called an Anderson SB50 and is commonly used in charging mechanisms for fork lift trucks! Should be able to mount it on the boot enclosure and have relatively easy and safe connection/disconnection of the amp's power and earth leads. I've been searching for something like this for over a week and it hit me yesterday that I work with electricians every day: only had to ask!
Let's see what tomorrow brings.

[ҢдщҚ]

Is it me or have i got this all wrong ?? With regards to the flashy dash ! I bought a cable with the software, it was specific for the vr4 AYC. The pin 9 is cut to stop flashy dash. I aint got a car yet to try it on but its allup on the website for allto read. How come people are having issues, just buy the right cable or from what i can see make one..

Please somebody verify what i have said is right or wrong. If i'm wrong i need to send the cable back to australia or wherever it came from ?

[apeman69]

I agree. I asked in this thread if someone could confirm, using V2.5 of Evoscan which has a menu item "Disable Mitsubishi flashing dashboard".
I've got the (rather expensive) Evoscan cable from New Zealand and Evoscan V2.5 but no computer in the car or laptop to test this feature. I, too, am hoping that it does work as expected. Once I have a replacement hard disc for my car PC I will test it and let you know... unless somebody else does in the interim.
I think it's not a cable issue because the pin 9 thing, as far as I understand it, just gives access to the ABS and AYC ECU's. I think it's simply a software issue hence the inclusion of the feature to switch flashy dash on or off. Anyone care to comment?

[n13l pm]

Wow I just read the whole thread, a lot of info.. the ICPC side of things brings back a lot of memories!

Good work there mate.

I know nothing about evoscan but I might be able to help on the amp power connectors question.. run me by what the problem is again?

[apeman69]

n13l pm, I want everything inside a box that can easily be removed from the car simply by disconnecting connectors/plugs/sockets to the relevant cables that will be running from front to rear of car.
I have all the sockets and plugs to mount all the required 'connections' to the back of the enclosure box apart from something that will fit either a 4 gauge or 8 gauge amp power and earth lead. So I'm after either 2 X one pole/pin connectors or 1 X 2 pole/pin connectors that will fit onto the amp wires.
The amp will have shortened power wires connected as normal to the amp. Then I want these shortened wires connected to some sort of plug/socket mounted on the back board of the enclosure. The reverse plug/socket will be then connected to a longer length of amp wire that will go to earth and the battery terminal respectively. The plug/socket mounted on the back board of the enclosure will allow me to disconnect the amp from the power and remove the enclosure box. This will be in addition to removing numerous USB connectors, PC power plug, VGA plug, audio in & out, speaker connections etc. The end of the amp cable needs to be insulated so that the wire/contacts of the plug/socket do not earth via the car's bodywork.
Using an electric kettle as an analogy, the heating element inside the kettle would be the amp; the body of the kettle would be the enclosure box; the wire going to the mains would be the amp wire going to the battery. In order for you to remove the kettle from it's power supply there is a plug and socket that simply pull apart and the cable connected to the mains remains safe as the electrical contacts are inside the plug (no intention to be patronising, just trying to describe it).
I could simply mount the amp under the back seats and have a standard permanent connection to earth and battery then run one connection to/from the PC (inside the enclosure) for the amp's remote turn on. However, I want everything in the one box and standardised in terms of installation and operation. One other advantage would be that if I sold the car and needed to remove the expensive equipment quickly then I could do so without having to necessarily rip up the carpets and trim to remove all the cabling or by cutting the wires and having to then rewire everything into another car. The connectivity core of my system is cable extensions and I have tried to design it so that it is future-proof in that every data or power cable termination is connected to it's destination via an extension cable. I can then remove the PC, amp, sub, enclosure and screen units quickly and easily and transport them to another vehicle if required, whilst leaving the extraneous cabling in the car should I wish to.

Here's a doodle 'cos I seem to be rambling now.....

In summary, I'm after an insulated 25 amp or more connector that will take either 4 or 8 gauge wire. Normal amp distribution blocks etc need an allen key to disconnect the wiring. I want an easier to operate plug/socket type connection rather than having to permanently mount an allen key on the enclosure's back plate or scrabble around my tools trying to find one.

[apeman69]

ҢдщҚ,


I've got the (rather expensive) Evoscan cable from New Zealand and Evoscan V2.5 but no computer in the car or laptop to test this feature.
Errrr..... scrub that! I've been sitting on the couch next to Phil's (my carpenter) laptop for the last few days. He asked me to install some software for him, which I haven't done yet, when we met to measure up the enclosure box so I will put Evoscan on his laptop and test the flashy dash theory with the 'genuine' Evoscan pin 9-less cable. I will try it with the "Disable Mitsy flashy dash" option selected and not selected to determine if it is the pin 9 thing or the software option that stops it, assuming either of these do actually stop the christmas tree...... and assuming I can successfully get the cable/software to interface with the car. Should be OK though 'cos I've tried the cable connected to the PC in the house with no obvious driver problems and it seemed to be reporting what I would have expected: "Hello, where's the bloody car?"
I feel totally stupid having his laptop hanging about and not thinking of trying this essential feature of my PC install. /pan /pan /pan /pan OUCH!

[n13l pm]

I see.. what comes to mind is banana plug and terminals, these can be simply plugged in and out.. for example:

uploaded/2949/1220544233.jpg


Are you planning on installing a sub within the same enclosure? The vibrations from the sub will probably have some affect on your pc and amp.. I would sugguest having a different enclosure for that. I have also read that people who have mounted amps on the back or top of sub boxs have broken their amps. Over time the rattling of the micro-board inside the amp leads to cracks on the board or loosens connections. With the pc the vibrations of the sub might affect the hard disk.

[Nick Mann]

The point I would add is that the amp could potentially be a large heat source. As heat rises, I'm not sure I would put the PC above the amp.

Apart from that, keep the info and pictures coming! This is an interesting thread, mostly because I would like to do something similar one day!

[apeman69]

Nick, I think the PC should have adequate cooling. It also has thermo-monitoring and power shut-off control should it start to overheat. The amp also has an integrated self-cooling mechanism (though I do recognise that the generated heat energy has to dissipate to somewhere).
I'm more concerned about the vibration as, not having the amp and sub in a car for well over 6 months now, I had totally forgotten what it is like with the sub in there!
Anyone specialise in anti-vibration?
Are any of those 'sound deadening' / 'vibration damping' stick on sheets/feet or similar any good for this application?
The shock-resistance of the 2.5inch notebook hard drives looks pretty good to me and how many users have dropped their laptop and got away with it? However, constant vibration is another matter.
Anyone got any sort of vibration-sensitive equipment near to a subwoofer and have observations or advice.
I was thinking initially of covering the inside of the enclosure part that will house the PC and amp with sorbothane sheets then mounting the amp & PC on sorbothane feet. ?????

[apeman69]

Another point on PC heat: the case has two fans built in to the front and the whole of the top and sides of the case is an extruded aluminium heatsink. I would hope that the components would be safe from vibration and heat as they are designed for the automotive application.
I know that the hard discs and motherboards were not specifically desinged for in-car use but the casings and power supplies have been.
Suck it and see I suppose. I can always e-mail linitx quoting the Sale of Goods Act 1978 (amended) or whatever it's called.
My old (now dead and buried) desktop PC was virtually in front of a central heating radiator for at least 4 years and was often on for 24 hours per day. It eventually failed because the power supply burned out and the graphics card overheated (probably not related). I still use the same PC location today. These things have got to be built to withstand the operating environment or they're not fit for purpose.
I wanted to introduce cooling and anti-vibration features into my enclosure box simply to play it safe and make it 'cool'. I don't want to be periodically taking components out of this thing once it's been done. I'd like it to be 'fit and forget' which is probably why I'm taking so much time weighing up the options and pros & cons of every little detail (that's how it feels anyway).

Enough.... I've got some soldering and crimping to do.

[apeman69]

n13l pm, I thought about banana plugs and I think I decided against them as when the plug is disconnected the pin of the plug is not insulated. This would not be ideal for a live battery feed cable being left in the boot. Cabling is connected to the socket which, again, is not insulated at the point where the cable is connected. So neither plug or connector would be suitable for the live feed cable to the battery. This is similar with a lot of connectors I have investigated. However, the Aderson SB50 genderless connector is insulated, rated at enough amps and can be bought with connector pins that will fit either 4 or 8 gauge wire. How the hell I would crimp a 4 gauge amp wire to one of these pins I do not know! Bench-mounted vice perhaps.

[apeman69]

This is where I'm up to at the minute.
Waiting for the enclosure really.
I'll update the PDF as I progress.

Tested EvoScan on a laptop and the flashy dash menu option to disable it doesn't work. Connection with ECU is lost when you select it. Hamish Ahern (EvoScan man) said it's only for EVO 7/8 or something but not Galant/Legnum.
I think we have to put up with flashy dash unless pin 9 is disconnected on the cable and then you lose ABS/AYC ECU support I believe. That's my understanding of it anyway. If you know differently then let us all know.
The flashy dash thing is no big deal after all. I thought it would bug me to death but when I drove around with the cable/laptop connected it was kind of funky!

[Nick Mann]

That is a serious PDF! Have some rep.....

[apeman69]

Nick, I haven't finished it yet and thanks for the rep.
My enclosure man is taking pics of the box build and there's the socket mounting and the actual installation to go still.
Watch this space.... and i hope someone finds it useful.
I know loads of people have done car PC installs on other forums etc but I wanted to do it from scratch and not really use other people's experiences: just to see if an idiot could do it!

[Louis]

I have a VAG cable that I added the earth pin 1 on.
I still get flashy dash with the latest version, and emailed Hamish, to ask about a version of evoscan with 6 injector, rather than 4 injector, he asked for the number of the ECU, I sent him that and he said that he had not fully worked out the system with that ecu but was working on it.

[apeman69]

Nice to know, thanks.

[rees]

Keep up the good work mate , excellent PDF :thumbsup: we observe. Egerly:)

[miller]

wow, ive just read all this. well done! Will you be taking these ICPC builds on for anyone else?


Mike

[apeman69]

Mini update:-

For anyone who hasn't read the PDF - there was a problem with getting the correct screen resolution for the motherboard/Lilliput screen. Screen's aspect ratio is 15:9 so the PC needs to display 800x480 so that images look correct.
I e-mailed the motherboard manufacturer (Jetway) and they have sent me a BIOS update that they assure me will allow the correct resolution to be used with the screen. :happy:
I haven't tried it yet because the amp, sub and PC are currently with Phill (my carpenter). I met with him yesterday afternoon for a progress update on the enclosure build. Discussed a change to the plan in order to accomodate some vibration damping (that may not be needed in reality). I'll explain this when I do the enclosure build section in the PDF. It's looking good and he should have it finished for Friday when we'll meet again for some fine tuning. The ashtray USB mounts should be done by then and most (if not all) of the cut-outs for the connectors.
I'll allocate a full day to install everything (to be sure it all gets done) and due to work commitments it might have to wait until the next Saturday but it's getting close now. Woo hoo!!!

[apeman69]

wow, ive just read all this. well done! Will you be taking these ICPC builds on for anyone else?


Mike

One of my mates asked me this on Saturday and it is possibly an option. Phill (carpenter) would definitely be interested in building any sort of custom enclosure. The 'customer' would really need to know specifically what they wanted. I wouldn't be happy doing something for someone and it not being EXACTLY how they wanted it.... so I guess I'm saying there would need to be a LOT of input from the person wanting the ICPC. No 'off the shelf' solution here. As can be seen the timescale from idea to installation has not been the quickest, because we all have other commitments that get in the way.

[apeman69]

I met with Phill today to have a look at the progress on the enclosure box. It should be ready for Monday.
It looks good and very functional. I'll do a proper write-up on the enclosure soon (I'll post another updated PDF).
Here's a picture of the PC and amp inside the shelving, adopting the anti-vibration idea I touched on. Don't really think any anti-vibration mechanism is needed but it probably won't hurt!!? I read about an American who crashed his truck and the carPC was still playing music. However, this being a yank, I wouldn't be surprised if it was just a supermarket trolley prang!
Basic principle is that the amp/PC is screwed to a shelf with anti-vibration feet on the bottom of this shelf. This 'platform' is then rested on another shelf that is attached to the shell of the enclosure. The amp/PC platform cannot move left/right or back/forward but the anti-vibration feet will allow very slight movement up/down - a bit like suspension. The purpose of the feet is to absorb vibration so the up/down allowable movement is minimal. It's similar to a hi-fi vibration damping system but the amp/PC mounting board must only move in unison with the car and not independantly from it (other than the minimal up/down allowable by the anti-vibration feet). Does this make any sense 'cos I've had a bit of rum tonight!

[apeman69]

The VGA cut-out from the connector panel is done and this is the finished article which is to be mounted on the back of the enclosure box. There's gonna be a hinged door on the back to allow easier wiring of the components and removal in the future if required. e.g. hard disc upgrade/replacement.

[apeman69]

The USB connectors mounted in the ash tray are done (though there was a little mishap with the dremmel!)

[apeman69]

The enclosure box is built.
The components are mounted in the box.
The box is in the car.
I'll be wiring it all up on saturday.

The first picture is of the connections coming out the back of the box. Pic is taken from inside rear of car with rear seat folded down. The box itself rests against the load cover so there is a good 3 to 4 inches between the back of the box and the rear seat when upright: tiny bit less boot space now but no squashed connectors. There is now a door on the box so the PC or amp can be removed individually if required.

[peter thomson]

/applaude That looks great.

[phosty]

I agree - I thought it would be deeper than that and lose too much boot space. But you still have a very usable area there.

What sort of grill are you planning on?

[apeman69]

Thanks, Pete. I'll pass your comment on to my carpenter friend.
Phosty, I've given up on the grille/covering idea really. I wanted everything raised from floor level so that anything rattling around the floor of the boot would hit the box before hitting the expensive stuff. I only really wanted something that was functional (to me) and I think i've got that. I've done a lot of mods to PCs in my time and I just know I'll want to get it out of the car at some point just to mess about with it! The cosmetic angle has never been of much importance to me as everything's out of sight with the load cover being pulled across. I rarely use the boot also. Only bought the estate because it looks like a 'normal' car (I've had a number of cars vandalised by drunken jealous idiots around where I live). This isn't something I want the general public to see on a daily basis so I'm gonna call it quits on the enclosure box and get on with the PC/amp wiring installation.... then I can play!
Might revisit the box later on down the line... for now it's perfectly suited to my needs.
Roll on saturday!!!

[apeman69]

Just finished installing it.

PROBLEMS:-
1) I've mounted the screen too far back in the radio bracket! AAARRRGGGHH! I did this over a week ago in the house because I couldn't wait to get on with something.
2) On reflection, five metres of cabling was a bit too much. There is a LOT of bulky wiring and connectors to shove behind the dash or pull back through the car to hide under the rear seat.
3) On first test, playing music whilst logging to screen in EvoScan means that the music occasionally skips. As I can't easily see the screen at the mo I don't know if this is just a software config thing whereby, perhaps, EvoScan is hogging too much of the system resources. I guess it wasn't designed to be a permanent gauge displaying mechanism anyway. Still, if I can't get this sorted I'll at least be able to use EvoScan without messing with a laptop.
4) Broke one connector off the amp power plug whilst trying to get it under the carpet between the rear seats so I've got to solder it again. Amp isn't working yet because of this. Sounds good though and it's nice to be able to fine tune the audio using both Windows and the head unit's built-in amp. I think the sub will make the whole experience much nicer!
5) The rear seat cushion... what a f*&^%r this is to get back on. After nearly 6 hours of bending & stretching, hardly any food or drink I really didn't need to have to use the whole of my strength to push the seat cushion into it's retaining brackets. I wondered why one side was off when I bought the car. I've just remembered too that I've left the seat belt clippy things under the sodding cushion!!!!!!!!
6) 101 scratches to my hands and forearms but after I've finished off the little niggles tomorrow it should have been worth it.

Everything works as expected, apart from the motorised screen not being able to come out far enough, and the amp.
I ended up routing the power cable for the PC down one side of the car, USB down the other, power cable to the amp down one side of the centre console (wasn't quire long enough to go along the side with the PC power cable) and VGA and audio down the other side of the centre console.
I wired a switch into the PC's power cable so I can isolate the PC totally or just use it as a master power on/off switch for those occasions when the only option available is to switch the PC off all together (e.g. hanged system). Luckily I had a blank switch housing next to my TCL on/off switch which I dremelled to fit a small 0/1 rocker switch into. Thought it was quite appropriate with the 0 = OFF / 1 = ON binary reference.

Took a few pictures along the way and I'll update the PDF soon and shove it on here again.

I'm tired and got a headache after today's (for me) mammoth physical exertions so I'm gonna relax now with a curry, a film and copious amounts of..... I think I'll have some Guinness for a change.

[apeman69]

Spent most of last Sunday and Monday getting the screen fixed and positioned correctly in the radio bracket. The Lilliput screen has NO mounting points that are useable. It doesn't even have any holes that can be used for screwing it to the bracket. Comes with a standard ISO radio cage with the bendy pop-out sections so it's intended to go into a DIN slot and the cage holds it in place! May be OK for some applications but useless for the Leggy or any other car with a double DIN space. Had to have a think and come up with a solution that would allow me to mount it far enough forward for the screen to eject/retract whilst keeping the thing firmly in the hole in the dashboard.

The music skipping was a result of my wireless LAN dongle being configured incorrectly. It was trying to find and connect to wireless networks when it detected any.

I've done a fair bit of Windows XP tweaking this morning so that the PC boots more quickly and runs more efficiently given the operating environment.

Driving with a screen in front of you that shows you all sorts of info is DANGEROUS! Nearly crashed a few times this week and I've learned my lesson.

I'm getting interference through the subwoofer. Seems to be from the PC as everytime the hard disc spins the subwoofer fires. Consequently I cannot yet set the sub levels correctly. I've been waiting for a dry day so I can have a look at the earthing of the PC and the routing of the wires inside the enclosure box. Alas, it seems to rain from June to May here in South Wales!

[Nick Mann]

It seems to rain 24/7 in middle England!

Good luck trying to find the sub cross-talk issue. It seems you are getting there and learning a lot for the rest of us on the way. I am thoroughly enjoying this thread - keep it up!

[apeman69]

Sorted the 'noise' problem this morning.
Interference only seemed to be evident when the screen was open. Thought it must have been the VGA connection but it wasn't. The two phonos from the screen to the amp were not pushed far enough into the sockets on the enclosure box! All is good now.
No interference even though I had to run the amp power cable across the data cables under the rear seat. I thought I might have to rip out some cables and re-route them but there's no need.

[apeman69]

Sorry I haven't updated this for a few days but I've been snowed under with work. Been tuning the amp to get just the right sound and trying to install a few bits of software on the PC. I say trying because every time I get in the car I just want to listen to some quality-sounding tunes for a change (not had my amp and sub in a car for over six months). What a difference it makes. I was happy with the sound from the factory speakers but with the amp & sub in it is really nice. I still haven't configured the Centrafuse software to boot more quickly, which involves simply adding a couple of text strings to the shortcut definition on the desktop: probably 1-2 minutes tops!
As I don't want any of my neighbours or, more importantly, casual passers-by to see my setup there doesn't seem to be much opportunity to tweak this and that on a daily basis. All I do is get up, go to work, go home, do a bit more work (whilst having some beers), stumble into bed then start it all over again.
Anyway, I'm going to update the PDF (and hopefully finish it) at the weekend so that will be it: project over.
Anyone wanting to do similar (car PC install) would be advised to take the plunge and enjoy yourself.
I tried to do it as an idiot would and haven't had too many problems and, more importantly, haven't experienced anything that could not be sorted.

Happy days indeed.

Now I can get on with the brakes, exhaust, and MapECU2........ yee ha!!!

[apeman69]

One more note on he flashy-dash/EvoScan thingy:-
I quite like it now. It's quite comforting to know that all the lights actually work! You never know who's previously been tinkering behind the dash after all. It's good when the PC boots up and the com port driver for the cable is recognised (the lights flash for a second or so) and I thnk to myself, smugly, "I've got a car PC with EvoScan on it and it's cool!!!!!"

I WILL be finishing the PDF as soon as I can

[apeman69]

Er..... something wasn't quite right here, me thinks!

[apeman69]

You try hiding close to 50 metres of cabling!

[apeman69]

Netgear 802.11n (draft) wireless LAN dongle (with 300m range, apparently). Only £33 - bargain!

[apeman69]

All's well that ends well...

[apeman69]

Here's the completed PDF detailing my observations and experiences of putting a computer in my car....

Thanks to everyone who helped with their comments and advice. It's been a wonderful experience. I could have paid a company £1800 to supply and fit one but it's cost me about £800 and I've gained a lot of knowledge, confidence and satisfaction from doing it myself. I've also had a very enjoyable time along the way.

If you're thinking of doing something similar then get on with it!

Thanks again,
Al.

Sorry I had to zip the pdf because the uploader did not like pdf files above 2MB. This was the only way I could get it on here.

[Nick Mann]

:thumbsup:

So the Centrafuse software controls the front end of the sounds? Does it take a long time to boot up/load? How easy is the software to get hold of, and do you need to spend a fortune on satnav/GPS stuff?

Fantastic write up - I am really looking forward to seeing it in the flesh. :D

[apeman69]

Nick,

It's (now) surprisingly quick to boot since I've configured it to do so. I've got it set to hibernate when power's switched off so the PC's state at power off is saved to hard disc and it takes probably less than 10 seconds to resume from hibernation when it's switched on. When it resumes from hibernation it is in exactly the same state as when I turned the car off: whatever applications were running and whatever they were doing is as it was before switching the PC off. Standard start-up without enabling hibernation is about a minute - not ideal!
So, I start the car, the PC beeps to tell me it's on, put on my seatbelt, unfold my mirrors, press the screen power button to get the screen to pop out and there are tunes playing already. I was messing around for about a week to get the PC configured to start up quickly and I reckon hibernation is the quickest.
This is the best set up I can come up with.

Centrafuse loading from a fresh windows reboot takes about 40 seconds. Windows takes as long as it feels like (thanks Mr Gates!)

It's difficult to explain but the hibernation setting within windows is like you can cut the power off no matter what you're running on the PC and when you next power it up everything is as you left it. In this scenario windows is already loaded and Centrafuse is already running and playing the last track you listened to.

The Centrafuse software is available from a company called FluxMedia. It's easy to find on Google. The software is available as a download (trial version is free). If you want to buy then there is an electronic licence key procedure which means you need internet access on the PC running Centrafuse. Their licencing is machine-specific in that any attached hardware and the PC's internal hardware is used in creating the licence key. Because of this I'd say it's best to get the software soon before installing the PC in a car, attach all the USB peripherals that would be in normal use then get the licence key whilst in the car.
If you don't have internet access in the car then licencing the Centrafuse software can be a pain. You get a code from within the software which you have to e-mail to FluxMedia and then wait for them to produce and e-mail you the licence code. Whilst this is going on the car PC running Centrafuse must remain switched on or the licence code they provide is more than likely to be invalid (must be some reference to PC start-up time or something similar in the licence code creation procedure).
I had about 4 or 5 days left on my trial before I could licence the software because I was installing the PC and waiting for my network adapter to arrive in the post. Once I was ready I just connected to an unsecured wireless network and went through the software licencing procedure (within Centrafuse) and it was done in a matter of seconds.

There are alternatives to Centrafuse but I preferred the look of it. The satnav feature needs the maps for use within Centrafuse and a GPS receiver that is compatible with Centrafuse. From what I've read the majority of GPS receivers should work but I'd look at one that has been used with the software.
The maps are compatible with those provided with a program called Destinator: designed for handheld PCs/phones and the like. Maps can be bought from FluxMedia at a stupid price. I have acquired the UK & Ireland Destinator maps so I just bought the standard version of Centrafuse. The maps I have appear to work but I do not yet have a GPS receiver. Dunno if I will bother with satnav on the PC as I already have a stand alone satnav that Sian bought me for Christmas one year.

I've seen USB GPS receivers for sale on t'internet for a little over £30.

Sorry there seems to be a lot of info here and I hope it makes sense. If not, ask away when i get you to change my spark plugs (December maybe as I'm off to Egypt again in a couple of weeks).

I haven't really used Evoscan yet and I'd appreciate any info on settings that may need to be changed to tailor it to our cars. I think I got the injector size to change but this may have been when I was messing about with Evoscan in the house - I can't remember. Anyone with a suitable data.xml file or whatever the settings are stored as?
Thanks, all.

[apeman69]

Just a short update on this re: satellite navigation.
Still using the car computer and I couldn't do without it.
I bought one of those cheapy GPS USB dongles from Hong Kong (via e-bay) for £23 and it is the dog's with the Destinator maps and Centrafuse.
It takes less than a second to lock onto satellites whereas my dedicated satnav stuck to the windscreen can take up to an hour in some instances with or without an extension booster aerial: not much use when you've no idea where you are going. Using the Centrafuse satnav any music playing fades out as the voice directions are given then fades back in when she's done talking. You can show the satnav screen without having a route set and it acts as an active map, obviously showing where you are and the surrounding area. Coolio!

[VR4Kaos]

been reading your posts and pdf files as you advised and wow a whole lot of work indeed but im not shy of work and this is a huge inspiration to me and no doubt others a like great work mate and thank you so much for sharing so much info
btw when we starting on mine ;) pmsl

[apeman69]

If I still lived up near you then I WOULD give you a hand.

[Nick Mann]

Just re-reading this and pondering current costs. Unfortunately, all the links for stuff Alan bought no longer work. So what's the current place to buy? How much should it cost now to get a system similar to what Alan has got? I don;t know if I have got the money to spend yet, but if I can justify it I want to.... I guess £400 or £900 will make a difference!

[foxdie]

Just putting together a full spec breakdown (including links to various bits) to build a powerful Car PC that won't break the bank :)

Watch this space!

[apeman69]

You really need to be clear in your mind on what you intend to use it for then buy a spec that will meet your needs.
I've just had a look on linitx.com and there are still some good items available on there. I don't know if they're the cheapest ('cos I haven't researched) but here is an idea of what would seem to be a good value 'system', once it's assembled!
There are questions you will need to answer at every step of the way and concerning every component of the system, should you wish to progress this.

The basic components you will need are: a case to house the PC components and to mount somewhere in the car, a motherboard and processor, RAM, hard disc, power supply suitable for in-vehicle use, operating system, optional optical disc drive.

Examples
Case £29
http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=12699 or one that is a bit bigger (why?)
http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=12846

Motherboard with processor £102
http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=12875

RAM £15 x 2 (2GB)
http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=12224

Hard disc £39
http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=12954

Power supply £58
http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=10917&sr=ts

Additional USB sockets to attach to motherboard headers £2.27 each (up to 3 with motherboard linked above) - not essential but nice to have and it's surprising what you can connect via USB rather than other methods
http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=12228

So, a basic PC as above could cost around £260-265

On top of this you'll need some sort of VGA screen setup, whether this be flat panel mounted within dash or flip out stylee.
Again, the choices are wide ranging. The PC suggestions above are only meant as an example of what is available and, as stated, each and every component has alternative choices available which will depend on what you want it to do and how you intend it to interface with other components of the PC and the in-car system as a whole.
It's all in the planning: this cannot be over emphasised.

Once you are clear what your PC will be used for then you can cost the different elements of the system including all the little bits and pieces required to connect it all together.

[foxdie]

Alans quite right, prices can fluctuate greatly but LinITX seem to be pretty competitively priced these days.

The basic PCs can be had for under £275 but on top of that you will have to pay for a screen, these will typically start at around £132 without any kind of mounting solutions (unless you want it to sit on top of your dash obscuring your view of the road), I've outlined some possible options below including a spec that I'm considering buying one day.

Also, it's worth noting that although I've yet to see any direct cases (ie. anyone I know directly) of any failures, regular spinning hard disks are highly susceptible to vibration / physical shock, all it would take is one bad pothole and the hard disk is toast, hence why this next section includes a quote for a SSD (Solid State Drive), which incidentally are significantly faster and will dramatically speed up power-on time, but aren't exactly cheap.

Core components:
Motherboard: Asus AT5IONT-I (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/227343) with Dual Core 1.8GHz Atom CPU and NVIDIA ION Graphics - £124.71
RAM: 4GB (2x2GB) Crucial DDR3 SO-DIMM RAM kit (http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/mpartspecs.aspx?mtbpoid=B6CC005EA5CA7304) - £37.19
HDD: 60GB OCZ Vertex SSD (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/225415) - £89.49
Case: LinITX CarPC Chassis (http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=12699) - £28.80
PSU: M2-ATX-HV 6-32V Input Intelligent Car PSU (http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=11664) with Aux Adapter cable - £64.96

Accessories:
Dynamode 100M Range USB Bluetooth 2.0 Adapter (http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=12962) - £4.20
Engenius 802.11B/G/N USB WiFi Adapter (http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=12882) - £13.40
Globalsat USB GPS Receiver (SiRF Star III) (http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=10823) - £36.47
Wireless mini-Keyboard and Trackpad Mouse (http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=12713) - £37.20

Screen options:
7" Lilliput 619GL Touchscreen VGA monitor (http://www.carcomputer.co.uk/shop/monitors/vga-monitors/7-inch-monitors/lilliput-619gl-70np-c-t-7-touch-screen-monitor) with no mount options - £132.00
7" Lilliput GL701 Touchscreen VGA monitor (http://www.carcomputer.co.uk/shop/monitors/vga-monitors/7-inch-monitors/lilliput-gl701-tv-c-t-7-vga-in-dash-touch-screen-monitor) built into a Single DIN headunit that flips out when required - £288.00
7" Lilliput 669GL Touchscreen VGA monitor (http://www.bybyte.com/lcd_screens.htm) with HDMI/DVI inputs supplied as a Double Din kit - £300.17 (Price include shipping from the US and duty charges)


Total: Between £570-£740

[Nick Mann]

Thanks both, there is some good info there. I don't want it to be a gaming pc, but I do want sounds, sat nav, evoscan, map 2 stuff etc. Sounds would include mp3 and radio. I'd also like WiFi on there to move music around and connect to the internet.

What software is recommended? Centrafuse is mentioned a lot and I have seen Alan uses it. I'd also need operating software too I assume. Is Linux a sensible option or would I be looking at buying Windows 7?

[Mark 4]

Centrafuse is good Nick. Most of you know I am a bit of a numpty when it comes to computers but I found this really easy to use. When I get my car back on the road I will definately be buying it.

I think that the screen is the biggest issue. I have a standalone screen that lives in the glovebox at the moment I would like to integrate it into the dash somehow but I have a couple of issues with that.

First, I don't want the screen on display when I am not in the car.

Second, if it goes in the din slots than it sits a little too low and you have to take your eyes off of the road to look at it.

Last I want to be able to turn the screen so that it faces me instead of flat in the dash.

This is why I took that spare dash off of you. I want to cobble something together to avoid the above issues - just don't have a clue how at the moment though.

[foxdie]

Thanks both, there is some good info there. I don't want it to be a gaming pc, but I do want sounds, sat nav, evoscan, map 2 stuff etc.

A good graphics card such as the NVidia ION platform aren't solely designed for playing games, they accelerate anything that uses 2D/3D graphics, such as Sat Nav packages (Google Earth (http://www.google.com/earth/index.html) and CoPilot Live v8 Laptop (http://www.alk.eu.com/copilot/laptop/) are two examples that use 3D acceleration) and the playing of HD content (you could fit monitors to the head-rests so Livvy can watch "In The Night Garden (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38YdVScf2oQ&feature=fvst)" streamed live from the net with BBC iPlayer to keep her entertained on long journeys) :)


What software is recommended? Centrafuse is mentioned a lot and I have seen Alan uses it. I'd also need operating software too I assume. Is Linux a sensible option or would I be looking at buying Windows 7?

Don't look at Linux if you want to run EvoScan and your Map2 software, I'd recommend either XP Pro for speed or Windows 7 for the OS, and Centrafuse as the front-end GUI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphical_user_interface).

[apeman69]

In terms of an operating system I think you wouldn't need anything more than Windows XP: It does the job, is pretty stable and quicker than later versions with the budget processors you'd use in a carPC. I'm sure somebody has an old PC case hanging around with a licence code sticker on the back.:lipseal so it could, effectively, be had for free :)
You don't need state of the art to run music, EvoScan, MapCal etc though you'd need to ensure that any of the newer motherboards had Windows XP drivers available (surprising how many new bits of kit do not have Win XP support from the manufacturer).
Jason, the hard disc vibration issue is (IMO) a load of old tosh really. I was looking at a crappy old HDD I took out of my Freeview recorder, as i needed to reformat the thing in the PC, and it said not to exceed shocks of 20G or something! That HDD is easily 10 years old. There's a story of a car being totally wrecked and the music was still playing from the HDD.
Nice find on the motherboard as that one looks the business what with the 4GB of RAM. If I was to buy one of these then I'd have a look at the power supply connector on the mobo before buying the aux adapter cable for the M2-ATX-HV PSU as I'm not sure if it is really required.

Getting confused now Nick?..... the fun begins :uhoh:

[apeman69]

For mobile live streaming of video over the internet you'd be looking at using the mobile phone networks and I can't imagine that would be anything like acceptable quality and can you imagine the cost when mobile network internet tariffs are (very small IMO) usage based. Sure, there are increasingly more free wi-fi hotspots around the country but this sort of usage is impractical when on the move. I had all these ideas of using the internet on the move/whilst out and about etc/data transfer between home network and car and I have only used it a very few times over the years. The country's communications infrastructure just isn't geared up for this and the easiest way to move any data between house and car is via USB memory stick right in front of me at the dashboard.
I've even got another USB wi-fi dongle right in front of me. It's been on my desk in the packaging for about 6 months. That's how much I have used wi-fi/internet/networking on the carPC. It's a useful feature if you have a use for it and can live with the limitations.
There are lots of ideas of what can and can't be done in the carPC world but be clear on what usage you want, get a PC and peripherals to achieve this and anything else should be simple enough to add on in the future as long as you get the basics right.

[foxdie]

I've found that driving around the West Midlands listening to online radio stations I've rarely hit a blackspot (except for the dual carriageway leading out of Redditch towards Hopwood / M42 *shakes fist!*).

Moving at great speed on a motorway is mixed, it depends on where you are, sometimes you only get 2G coverage which naturally won't work with any kind of streaming.

Alans right though, build up from what you need rather than what you want :)

[Pugme]

a car pc is in my future, will be running a 10" touch screen, centrafuse looks a bit dull, is there a reason that a touch version of windows 7 cannot be used? or is there benefits that centrafuse offer that im not seeing?

[John TheAntique]

Thanks both, there is some good info there. I don't want it to be a gaming pc, but I do want sounds, sat nav, evoscan, map 2 stuff etc. Sounds would include mp3 and radio. I'd also like WiFi on there to move music around and connect to the internet.

What software is recommended? Centrafuse is mentioned a lot and I have seen Alan uses it. I'd also need operating software too I assume. Is Linux a sensible option or would I be looking at buying Windows 7?

I've got a T3 Infill running windows that does all that if anyone is interested.

[Nick Mann]

I've got a T3 Infill running windows that does all that if anyone is interested.

I might be interested, John, but I have no idea what you just said!!

[John TheAntique]

Here you are http://www.navigadget.com/index.php/2006/10/13/infill-t3-with-streetdeck

[John TheAntique]

And http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODf1keXNFYs from an old member here

And its got a roll up keyboard for those who type fast

[Nick Mann]

Aha. I see. Not really what I am looking for but interesting!

[apeman69]

a car pc is in my future, will be running a 10" touch screen, centrafuse looks a bit dull, is there a reason that a touch version of windows 7 cannot be used? or is there benefits that centrafuse offer that im not seeing?
You can use whatever software you like to use. The idea behind Centrafuse is that it is a front end to all your in-car software requirements. One program opens on boot and you do whatever you want within the common interface. Using Windows Explorer to find music that you want to play or videos to watch (on, say a 7" screen)and then opening them with Windows Media Player is going to lead to you crashing your car! Trust me I've had many near misses just trying to open my gauges in EvoScan, as v2.7 doesn't seem to want to open them automatically :( Fingers bigger than a 3 year old cannot easily select a small line of text in a file dialogue box and I can never seem to find my stylus when I need it.
Centrafuse is simply big buttons (for adult sized fingers) linked to all the usual suspects and anything else you care to program into the interface (e.g. one touch big button for running EvoScan).
I haven't seen a touch screen version of Win 7 but I'd imagine that it would be a simplistic 'big button' styled interface which certainly could be suitable. What you've got to consider is whether what you see on your big screen monitor will be practical on a much smaller touch screen. There must be some touch screen version of Windows that would be more than suitable for a car PC because all you're after really is a user interface that is designed for non keyboard/mouse usage (e.g. point of sale systems etc).
The Centrafuse people used to do a free demo download and I'd suggest anyone considering this try the demo exhaustively to make sure it is suitable and read up on their user forum. When I bought Centrafuse there simply wasn't anything anywhere near as appropriate available. There were a couple of shareware front ends that I thought weren't as good. Perhaps there are now alternatives, I dunno.
Nick, if I make it to the RR day you can have a play with my bits if you want to and get more of a feel for all this!

[Nick Mann]

Nick, if I make it to the RR day you can have a play with my bits if you want

:o

;)

Thanks all for the info. All I need now is permission from my better half and then potentially some sales from the old VR-4.....

[funkstardelux]

seems they changed the team came back with a new name and new system
http://carpcmall.com/twoweb/index.php/fundi/fundi-g7.html

[kriklis]

Hi. I have a problem. I have evoscan and the OBD2 cable. But I can not connect. FTDI shows of all time Read Error - 4. What do I do?
Maybe I have wrong cable?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ELM-327-USB-1-4a-Code-Car-Diagnostic-Interface-OBD2-II-/110659132839?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item19c3cc5da7
I bought this, but I do not know whether it is good. Maybe I can give you someone advisors what to do? My Car Mitsubishi Legnum Vr4 2.5 V6 TT 1996th

[kriklis]

Hi. I have a problem. I have evoscan and the OBD2 cable. But I can not connect. FTDI shows of all time Read Error - 4. What do I do?
Maybe I have wrong cable?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ELM-327-USB-1-4a-Code-Car-Diagnostic-Interface-OBD2-II-/110659132839?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item19c3cc5da7
I bought this, but I do not know whether it is good. Maybe I can give you someone advisors what to do?
My Car Mitsubishi Legnum Vr4 2.5 V6 TT 1996th

[kriklis]

Hi. I have a problem. I have evoscan and the OBD2 cable. But I can not connect. FTDI shows of all time Read Error - 4. What do I do?
Maybe I have wrong cable?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ELM-327-USB-1-4a-Code-Car-Diagnostic-Interface-OBD2-II-/110659132839?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item19c3cc5da7
I bought this, but I do not know whether it is good. Maybe I can give you someone advisors what to do? My Car Mitsubishi Legnum Vr4 2.5 V6 TT 1996th

[Nick Mann]

Permission is there! I just need to sell enough of my old VR4 to fund it.....

So, more questions for the techies...

1. Alans suggested mother board has got a "com port". Is that a standard serial port? This has a major advantage when connecting to the MAP2 if so. I am quite happy to pay a little bit more for this feature, or lose a little bit of something else.
2. If the board says it has a 12V input, does that mean the power can be wired in straight from the cars loom? Or is the M2-ATX intelligent power supply still required?

[Nick Mann]

Oh, and £220 shipped (Close to £300 delivered) for the double din monitor seems expensive just because they have put it in a custom mount. Isn't this the same monitor for £130 shipped? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lilliput-669GL-70NP-C-T-7-TouchScreen-HDMI-Car-Monitor-/390280966679?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ade8ef217
I'm happy to bodge it in the dash myself for £90 plus duty plus VAT.

[apeman69]

You won't need a serial port. I was prob talking about windows settings and how to configure serial port connections through USB ports. If you must have one then as long as the mobo has a header plug on it, which I imagine most will, then I have a spare mobo connector that is wired to a serial port and.backplate. I'll give it to you next time I see you.
You're thinking on the right lines in terms of permanently wired connections to the PC. My MAP2 was put in after the PC and for the number of times I've used MAPCAL it doesn't seem worthwhile for me to permanently wire it up.
The idea behind the PSU add on is that it controls shut down of the PC and prevents unpredicted power loss to the PC. Without one of these every time you turned the car off the PC power would be immediately cut and this could well lead to boot up problems next time you turn the key. It also protects against power surges/instabilities when cranking.
You can configure the PSU in a few ways by setting jumpers on the PSU board (which fits inside the PC case). I've set mine to keep PC power on for 2 minutes after the ignition is switched off which allows the PC to shutdown cleanly within this time. In conjunction with XP's power options you have a greater number of options when the power is cut.
Generally when I start the car the PC powers up. When I switch off the ignition the PC is set to shutdown windows and has 2 minutes of car battery power to do it.
I also wired a simple on/off switch for when the PC might crash (reset switch) or if I'm on a long journey and have no intention of using it then I can leave it powered off.

[apeman69]

Any thoughts on how you intend to handle audio?

[apeman69]

Here's a link to a manual for one of the newer power supplies: http://resources.mini-box.com/online/PWR-M2-ATX-HV/PWR-M2-ATX-HV-manual.pdf
It may be worthwhile (while the pound is so strong against the dollar) having a look at the U.S. host site for this manual (www.mini-box.com) which IIRC has some useful information and nice products.
I haven't checked if they deliver to the U.K. as I've just got in from work and remembered about this company. Even if they don't there may be some useful information concerning components for a car PC setup.

[Nick Mann]

Power supply makes sense, thanks!
Map 2 through a serial port is a much more reliable and much quicker connection than through a USB/serial converter. So I'd very much like a serial port on the motherboard somehow. I don't know how much I'd use mapcal once it is all in the car and available, but the option of using it well would be good.
Audio - I have some car amps kicking around doing nothing. They aren't much and one day I would want to upgrade them, but the intention would be to take the PC audio out into the amps to drive the door speakers. I have enough amps to drive a sub too if I decide I want to.
The American thing is interesting. I have a sister in Canada, so if stuff over there is much cheaper too there may be a way to avoid duty and VAT!

[Mark 4]

Nick, do you have a plan for mounting the screen ?

[Nick Mann]

Not yet. Some kind of fabrication unless I feel rich and buy the last link in Jasons bits to buy on the previous page.

[apeman69]

Nick, another thing you've got to consider is the supported screen resolutions of the mobo, screen and software. E.g. if you use MAPCAL on a netbook, which has a resolution of say 640x480 then you just cannot access all of the configuration screens because they're too tall for the display.
I can't remember the exact screen sizes that are best on the whole but I'd think about which software you intend to run and try it on your desktop or laptop at the lower screen resolutions that the monitor you are interested in supports. Test the software exhaustively and find the lowest resolution you can live with. Anything higher that is supported by the mobo AND screen is a bonus.
Remember that high resolutions on a 7" monitor means small text and difficult to click buttons especially on the move.
When I was looking at screens the quoted 'native resolution' wasn't always a resolution directly supported by the graphics chips on some of the mobos either!
Search really is your friend on this one to help determine your final screen of choice as others around the globe will have encountered potential niggles that you could. I had to get a BIOS update directly from the mobo manufacturer to get my PC to display at the screen's max resolution as it wasn't freely available on t'internet and the PC's graphics chip didn't support the lower resolution in the correct widescreen aspect ratio.
I hope I can make it to the RR on Saturday cos we can have a proper chinwag.

[foxdie]

You better make it Alan, I wanna chip into that convo :)

[Nick Mann]

I hope I can make it to the RR on Saturday cos we can have a proper chinwag.

/yes

I'm pretty sure 800x600 is enough, but it is a good point I hadn't considered. I'll check that out too. :D

[apeman69]

This is the config screen at 600 pixels high:-
43199

And this is what's missing!
43198

Not impossible to get around (with the tab button) but still a PITA and with many applications the main screen is resizable but dialogue boxes are very often a fixed size: test your applications extensively. :monkey::|:uhoh2::smug:

[apeman69]

I'm pretty sure 800x600 is enough, but it is a good point I hadn't considered. I'll check that out too. :D
BTW 800x600(1.33:1 or 4:3 AR) is not a widescreen resolution and using that on a widescreen display (like the Lilliput one you linked to) will result in images looking squished.
You need something like 800x480 (1.67:1 or almost 16:9 AR) or 960x600 (1.6:1 almost 16:9 AR) but the lower res ones are not ideal. The Liliput advert says it will support up to 1920x1080 which is a bang on 16:9 AR but this would be unusable for every day (my 19" monitor is not even run at this resolution as stuff just gets too small). The ideal resolution needs to have a height of 800 for usability of applications which would mean (for widescreen AR) a typically supported width of around 1280. However, a resolution of 1280x800 on a 7" monitor could still result in text being too small to easily read/select via touch screen in applications other than the 'big button' touch screen specific apps like Centrafuse.
At the end of the day we're trying to implement a big screen (desktop monitor) experience to a small screen (in car) environment and there is no ideal situation. You need to see what anything running on a 7"screen looks like at any resolution with a height of 800 or more. I'll see if I can get mine to that and take a couple of pics 'cos I'm curious myself now. Potentially prepare to compromise, young man!

[Nick Mann]

So what resolution do you use? Maybe a bigger screen is required.

[apeman69]

800x480 which isn't ideal for some apps. Text is acceptably large.
Perhaps a 4:3 more square screen, biggest one that will fit in the double din. Widescreen is ok for films but not a general purpose PC with a small screen. I wanted a single din fold in/out and only widescreen was available.

[foxdie]

I believe the Lilliput monitors will run at a higher resolution and scale to fit, it may make things blurry and hard to see but you'd be able to click the OK button.

You might have to get creative, something like this (http://www.carcomputer.co.uk/shop/monitors/hdmi-monitors/lilliput-fa1011-np-c-t-10-1-hdmi-touch-screen-monitor) running at 1280x720 (16:9) either mounted in the dash or as a roof-mounted flip-down monitor might suffice :)

Or something like this (http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=10774)?

[apeman69]

Personally, I reckon 4:3 is the way to go if you've got the dash space to accomodate.
:ranton: All this 16:9 and HDMI nonesense is exactly that in the, practical, carPC world!
Every manufacturer is on the widescreen bandwagon nowadays and for out and out computing it's b@llocks. Computer programs are not designed for widescreen use, you can keep all that for your cr@ppy LCD/LED/Plasma/Methane outta my @rse (or whatever junk they're currently peddling) TVs. :ranton:
4:3 screens must be cheaper now because they're not 'state of the art'. Progress my nuts@ck!

[Mark 4]

I think I am glad that I have a 4:3 then.

Have been thinking today and I might have just about worked out a way to fit it. :afro:

[Nick Mann]

PMSL @ Alan!! Although I do understand the point.....

The fold down from the ceiling thing won't work with a moonroof, Jason! /pan

So, I'm now looking for dimensions on 10" 4:3 touchscreens to see if the width will fit the dash.

[Nick Mann]

So, the 10.1" 16:9 Lilliput FA1011 is 235mm wide overall.
the 8" 4:3 Lilliput 859 GL is 202mm wide overall.
the 10.4" Lilliput FA1046 is 260 wide overall.

I need to get to the dash in the morning with a tape measure!

In theory, a 16:9 10" screen has 2% more viewable height than a 4:3 8" screen. Not much in that! In theory, the 10" 4:3 would be an even better overall height and a narrower width than the 10" 16:9.

[apeman69]

Just forget the widescreen versions as the dash is more square shaped. Rip the dash out of your blue one and you can more easily assess fitment taking into account how the panel fits into the dash I.e. the back of the dash panel and fixings which may interfere. I wish I'd done that.

[apeman69]

Just had a look at the dash and the double din area looks more suited to a widescreen. If you could relocate the climate control and trim the din aperture then that could be something special. I think that some of the centre console fixings would be destroyed though from memory and what I'm suggesting would not be an easy job. Double DIN or as near as is prob the best option. I'd still go for 4:3 though if the dimensions are suitable :)

Sent from my Huge Brain using MyFingers :)

[Nick Mann]

Your humour is making me laugh in your last few posts, Alan!!

The dash is already out of the blue one, and all the measurements are written on a bit of paper. I didn't want to go outside last night to start trying to work it out though. It is on the list of things to attempt this morning! :P

[Nick Mann]

The 10.4" 4:3 basically won't fit without serious modification.

The 10.1" 16:9 and the 8" 4:3 will both fit only if you lose the vents above the aircon and relocate the aircon to below the screen. The 10.1" will look a lot better in the gap IMO.

None of them will fit in the area for the stereo.

At this moment in time, I am considering the 10.1" 16:9, lose the vents and relocate the aircon. Plenty of time for an opinion change yet, though!

[Mark 4]

Apart from the dash in the car and the spare one in the loft I have this "offcut", it's been sitting around for quite a while but this thread has given me a little motivation to attack it with a jigsaw and dremel.

It seems perfectly feasible to hinge the clock which would then allow the 8" touchscreen to pass through. This would require mods to the heater ducting which is relatively simple so I am going to persevere and see where it leads.

[foxdie]

Has anyone thought at using the sunglasses holder space for either the climate control or a shallow depth Single Din unit? It's nice having a glasses holder, but I can think of better uses for the space :)

[Nick Mann]

Interesting, Mark!

Jason, the sunglasses holder points slightly down, so not ideal for anything with a screen. To use the area would mean fibreglassing. The dash also tapers as you go further down, so the width becomes unusable for anything big at around that height.

[phosty]

The thing that has put me off so far is that I can only find resistive touch screens. I'd much rather have a capacitive (i.e. iphone4 / HTC Desire etc) screen. I've had resistive touch screens for years on my phone and without a stylus they are not very practical. In a car I just want it to work!

Can those of you who have them in-car comment? How is the sensitivity, accuracy etc etc?

[Nick Mann]

Just discovered that the width measurement I had for the 10.1" widescreen is wrong. It is actually 256mm. I'll make another template tomorrow, but I think that makes it too wide again.

[Nick Mann]

http://www.mo-co-so.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MCS%2DCBS%2DIO2

I like sites like this. Configurable systems from base packages. Plus nice little extras like RCA outputs. It's a shame it's American!

[apeman69]

I've found my older Lilliput screen to be more than adequate and I never use the stylus. Only prob is my lowered and stiffened suspension can cause my fat fingers to hit the wrong thing when selecting small stuff such as filenames in explorer. That usually results in near collision! Again it depends on the application you're running at the time. Ones designed for touch screens are great cos of the big buttons.

Sent from my Huge Brain using MyFingers :)

[nuster100]

I started to take a dremel to my dash last night for my CarPc project.

I have a 7" touchscreen going where the double din slot was (moulded into dash), sunglasses holder has gone and is replaces with a single Din Cage for my Alpine Head unit, and the ashtray has gone is has been replaced with a switch array including engine start and foglights.

Jay

[Mark 4]

Sounds good, get some pics up when you can.

[nuster100]

I shall do, even with a 7" screen, im having to enlarge the dim space quite a lot. Its going to take a bit of work!

Jay

[apeman69]

Just be careful with the angle of the screen. If you can then try it out in the car to ensure it's how you want it before moulding it in. If you simply follow the line of the dash then the screen may not be in the ideal position. I'd try it in different lighting conditions too in order to get the optimum angle.

[nuster100]

Ok, heres a sneak peak :drummer:


432694327043271

Jay

[foxdie]

Might have a small group buy on your hands if you can do a professional job, looking good :)

[Mark 4]

I have done a little more investgation today and It is pretty much impossible to get my screen to fit in the clock area as it would mean cutting too much out of the top of the dash and then making a cover that doesn't look naff. Plus the screen will interfere with vision a bit.

However, if one could live without the centre vents then a whole new space opens up. In the attached photos you can see where I have removed the ducting for these vents. It creates a space that is roughly 255mm wide x 65mm high x 180mm deep. This could be increased to 270mm deep if you could also do without the outer vents.

With the aid of some glue and epoxy putty I am sure that I can fake up the panel so it looks like the air vents are normal but then grind away the back so it is only about 10mm thick.

Then it would be a case of making up a runner/hinge mechanism so that the screen could live behing the fake panel and be pulled out when required. In an ideal world this could be motorised but I am not thinking about that at the moment because that is a step too far given my limited skill set.

[Mark 4]

Oops, seems I managed to include a picture of my grand daughter, Lily. She stayed last night and we promised her fish for dinner. I took her to the fishmongers and she decided that she wanted a kilo of raw prawns for dinner. So, being a good Grandad I got her a kilo of raw prawns and cooked them up in some garlic and mixed herb butter. Once they were cooked she was really excited and got stuck in.

[Mark 4]

Question, how do I get the wideband signal from the LC1 into Evoscan ?

[orionn2o]

I thought there was a serial port on the LC1?

[Mark 4]

Cheers Matt, I'll grab the manual and have a read.

[orionn2o]

Evo scan has the serial port to software built in i thought too.

[nuster100]

Here is an update on my progress: :jester:

43766
43767
43768

The button holes are for various switches and warning lights I have such as rear fogs and some strobe lights that are fitted behind the front grill. :whistle:

Jay

[Nick Mann]

Alans quite right, prices can fluctuate greatly but LinITX seem to be pretty competitively priced these days.

The basic PCs can be had for under £275 but on top of that you will have to pay for a screen, these will typically start at around £132 without any kind of mounting solutions (unless you want it to sit on top of your dash obscuring your view of the road), I've outlined some possible options below including a spec that I'm considering buying one day.

Also, it's worth noting that although I've yet to see any direct cases (ie. anyone I know directly) of any failures, regular spinning hard disks are highly susceptible to vibration / physical shock, all it would take is one bad pothole and the hard disk is toast, hence why this next section includes a quote for a SSD (Solid State Drive), which incidentally are significantly faster and will dramatically speed up power-on time, but aren't exactly cheap.

Core components:
Motherboard: Asus AT5IONT-I (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/227343) with Dual Core 1.8GHz Atom CPU and NVIDIA ION Graphics - £124.71
RAM: 4GB (2x2GB) Crucial DDR3 SO-DIMM RAM kit (http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/mpartspecs.aspx?mtbpoid=B6CC005EA5CA7304) - £37.19
HDD: 60GB OCZ Vertex SSD (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/225415) - £89.49
Case: LinITX CarPC Chassis (http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=12699) - £28.80
PSU: M2-ATX-HV 6-32V Input Intelligent Car PSU (http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=11664) with Aux Adapter cable - £64.96

Accessories:
Dynamode 100M Range USB Bluetooth 2.0 Adapter (http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=12962) - £4.20
Engenius 802.11B/G/N USB WiFi Adapter (http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=12882) - £13.40
Globalsat USB GPS Receiver (SiRF Star III) (http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=10823) - £36.47
Wireless mini-Keyboard and Trackpad Mouse (http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=12713) - £37.20

Screen options:
7" Lilliput 619GL Touchscreen VGA monitor (http://www.carcomputer.co.uk/shop/monitors/vga-monitors/7-inch-monitors/lilliput-619gl-70np-c-t-7-touch-screen-monitor) with no mount options - £132.00
7" Lilliput GL701 Touchscreen VGA monitor (http://www.carcomputer.co.uk/shop/monitors/vga-monitors/7-inch-monitors/lilliput-gl701-tv-c-t-7-vga-in-dash-touch-screen-monitor) built into a Single DIN headunit that flips out when required - £288.00
7" Lilliput 669GL Touchscreen VGA monitor (http://www.bybyte.com/lcd_screens.htm) with HDMI/DVI inputs supplied as a Double Din kit - £300.17 (Price include shipping from the US and duty charges)


Total: Between £570-£740


Christmas is coming and I'm fresh out of ideas for stuff people can get me. So I'm wondering about asking people for different bits of this kit. BUT this list is over a year old now and some of the links no longer work. Is anyone able to update it to current specs for me? Bang per buck is always my biggest want when buying stuff like this. I don't want to spend a fortune and get not much more. (Indeed, if it costs a lot it won't get on my Christmas list!)

[Nick Mann]

Okay, after all my ramblings I think I am going to go for a 7" widescreen monitor. (Sorry Alan!)
What about a motherboard?

Here is my best guess for the basic system:

Display: Lilliput 669GL-70NP/C/T - 7" HDMI touch screen monitor (http://www.carcomputer.co.uk/index.php?/monitors/hdmi-monitors/lilliput-669gl-70np/c/t-7-hdmi-touch-screen-monitor) - £160
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-H61N-USB3 Socket 1155 7.1 Channel HD Audio Mini-ITX Motherboard (http://www.ebuyer.com/288743-gigabyte-ga-h61n-usb3-socket-1155-7-1-channel-hd-audio-mini-itx-motherboard-ga-h61n-usb3) - £63.11
Processor: Intel Pentium G850 2.9GHz (http://www.ebuyer.com/264715-intel-pentium-g850-2-9ghz-socket-1155-3mb-l3-cache-retail-boxed-processor-bx80623g850) - £60.61
RAM: 8GB Kit (4GBx2), 240-pin DIMM, DDR3 PC3-10600 memory module (http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/mpartspecs.aspx?mtbpoid=8D4247B8A5CA7304) - £28.79
HDD: Sandisk 128GB Pulse SSD Slim (http://www.ebuyer.com/387080-sandisk-128gb-pulse-ssd-slim-sdssdp-128g-g25) - £59.99
Case: LinITX CarPC Chassis (http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=12699) - £22.80
PSU: M2-ATX-HV 6-32V Input Intelligent Car PSU (http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=11664) with Aux Adapter cable - £61.24


So that comes to £456.64 with the add ons still to buy.

[foxdie]

So that comes to £456.64 with the add ons still to buy.

For the basics, yeah that'll suit you to the ground, just be sure to take power for the LCD from the motherboard PSU +12V, Lilliput monitors don't deal well with automotive voltages (which can sometimes spike up to 40v).

Also be mindful of the fact you need some kind of amplifier for your speakers too. There's some examples here (http://bybyte.com/amp.htm).

Also, recently ByByte released a mini-ITX case which would suit ITX motherboards with low profile CPU heatsinks, that can be found here (http://bybyte.com/BBX-1_content.htm)

[Nick Mann]

Forgot the CPU fan!!

http://www.ebuyer.com/290963-akasa-k25-intel-775-1155-1156-k25-low-profile-cooler-for-mini-itx-ak-cc7118hp01 - another £10.80

[Nick Mann]

So, I've started collecting components. I still have some to go, but I have started to look in to software whilst I wait for money and components to get far enough that I have something to build. There is lots of information on www.mp3car.com but it takes a long time to read through.

It looks like Ride Runner (used to be called Road Runner) is free and potentially as good as Centrafuse. Has anyone used both and formed an opinion?

Is there any good reason to use windows 8 over windows 7? I think that often windows release a bad one in between good ones, so with the XP to Vista to 7 going good, bad, good, I reckon 8 is statistically going to be a bad one!

[exevoowner]

just use a tablet its all in one then, when mine stop working i didnt replace any of it just brought a adaptor to plug my phone into screen and use that just working out about evoscan and connection for it

[Nick Mann]

As far as I know there is no solution yet for evoscan on Android.
Not sure about ecu flash or other ecu software. Or about Web cam video capture.
Only the music and gps seems to be easier with the tablet.

[wintertidenz]

I've tried both Centrafuse and RideRunner. I find RideRunner is more friendly and the mods just generally seem to work better.

I'd stick with Win 7 or even XP - I went to Win 7 a while back but reverted back as the sound cards weren't doing what I wanted them to do. Now I'm running two sound cards under XP with RideRunner, Winamp, Garmin GPS software and the kX Project drivers for one of the sound cards. GPS isn't hard to get working, but seeing as you are in the UK you have a wider choice of apps for your GPS. In NZ we only have one that works with our maps - the discontinued Garmin one.

I'm also looking at using an Android tablet instead of a touchscreen for the actual display - Unified Remote Full works well on an Android device so far.

As for the parts - I cannot stress enough that you get a decent DC-DC PSU with the capacity for future expansion, and an SSD. The PicoPSUs are pretty good in price, but get the higher 100w+ rated one.

[Nick Mann]

I already have the SSD I linked to above. No power supply yet, but planning on the one linked to above as well.

Thanks for the feedback - I think I might try Ride Runner before shelling out for Centrafuse. It seems both have bluetooth issues too, that are a bit hit and miss to solve.

[JimT]

Take a look at this on the evoscan web site. EVODROID7: EvoScan 7" Android GPSNav CarPC
I am waiting for mine to be delivered, hopefully sometime this month.

[Erni902]

Quick question with regards to 'flashy dash'. I too would like evoscan in my car. Got most of the components sorted just unsure of the flashy dash thing and confused a little (I know it doesnt take a lot does it?!) Was there a solution that gets rid of flashy dash? If not then when exactly does flashy dash occur? If I have evoscan running will it only flash whilst at a standstill or is it all the time?

Any help would be much appreciated :)

[elnevio]

Should only flash at a standstill.

Although if you have removed the limiter (by cutting the speed sensor wire) this may affect this, but I'm not sure on that point.

[Nick Mann]

I've never seen the flashy dash happen at more than walking pace. Evoscan still registers speed on cars with the speed limiter wire cut. There is supposed to be a way of not having the flashy dash, but I think it depends on the cable version and software version you are using.

[Erni902]

Excellent cheers for the info guys, I will be purchasing the software and cable within the next few months :)

[Anderz]

The switching point for ABS AYC flash is 20 km/h
You can get rid of it if you cut the wire putting ABS and AYC ecu in diagnostic mode, if I remember correctly this is pin 9 on the OP 2.0 cable. You also have to disable it in evoscan
It is a better idea to put a switch on the wire, so you can use evoscan for logging and AYC bleeding when needed :)

[exevoowner]

Anyone using the andriod evoscan yet i have a speedo app that allows me to use other apps in with it and now i can veiw on lillput screen also

[Nick Mann]

So, I now have enough bits to start tinkering!

60664

[exevoowner]

Good luck nick you'll need it lol

[apeman69]

[QUOTE=Nick Mann;743385]So, I now have enough bits to start tinkering!

You finished yet? :)



Sent from my Jelly Beaned Atrix

[Nick Mann]

It's in enough bits that I have installed a demo version of windows 8 and riderunner on it. Still tinkering! No screen yet, though, and it should have been here today.

[wintertidenz]

Some nice kit there :) why Windows 8 instead of 7 though? I'm curious.

I had to stick with XP due to the sound card drivers not working so well - so keep that in mind if you ever go down the kX drivers route.

Which screen - a Lilliput?

[Nick Mann]

Yes, a lilliput 669gl which I intend to fit in a bybyte double din frame.
Windows 8, just thought I would try it to see, as it is supposed to be good with touch screens. So far I am not enjoying it!
The mother board is configurable for the sound outputs you want and the drivers seem to be good. I haven't played with that bit yet.
So far I am impressed with the ssd though. Cold start up is 20 seconds!