MAP2 guys help please..

[mpau009]

..clearly i have no idea what i am doing with the MAP2/pan

I thought i had a good handle on the wiring and settings, and am pretty sure iv got everything in the right place.

I basically just need the car to run well enough to get it to the tuner, so im not super fussed about it running perfectly, since i dont plan on running any boost on the way there.. thats for them to figure out:baby:

Problem is, even using the base map kicking around here, i seem to be running stupidly rich at idle... 9.2 AFR, as you can see from the pic/Grrr I have tried a couple of things, but im not sure what i am doing in terms of leaning it out. It seems to be not too far off once you touch the throttle (before the plugs started to foul up anyways..) But the idle is rediculous.

Is this likely to be a settings issue because of the bigger injectors? or have i miss wired something..

Any pointers would be great, particularly if can compare notes on settings and wiring, and how to adjust the idle to something a little more livable :P

[bradc]

remember you've got much larger injectors. 530/390 = 1.36

Remove that much fuel and you should be a whole heap closer.

[Nutter_John]

I have a base map at home that is for use with 530cc injectors , I can send you a copy that should give you a more stable idle

send me a pm with your email address

[Nick Mann]

Can you connect to the ECU using MAPCAL software?

If so, press F4 for fuelling, T for table and then look for the box with adjust percentage in. Change that to 4 or 5 (this is not a good idea for fine-tuning, but makes getting somewhere close under zero load a lot easier - for normal on load tuning, the smaller the adjust percentage the better). The press Alt+W (I think) for Follow Me mode. There should then be a box highlighted in red, which is the cell that the ECU is sending to the car. Then simply press + or - to add or remove fuel.

You can come out of follow me mode and type numbers in manually too. This may be a good idea if you have one cell that is massively different from those around it.

Hope that helps a bit!

[mpau009]

Ahhh, my brain..:inquisiti

I tried with limited success to get the car to idle yesterday. all was going well, and i was going to try and move it out of the garage,, until it decided after an hour to start hunting the idle around, and going lean then stalling...

Nutter John has kindly let me take a look at his map for the bigger injectors this morning, but now im really really confused.. my values arent radically different, buuut..

I had wired my MAP ecu for Karman Vortex Elimination, with the KVF output going to the White/Blue wire on plug 4 (Volume airflow sensor), and the Baro output configured to the Green/White maf wire, and the auto baro adjust and AIT compensation checked.

Have i got myself confused? I was sure these cars ran KVF style air flow sensors?

Could someone please double check their hard wiring connections and settings..

Any help would be awesome:iloveyou:

[Subaru ETA]

[QUOTE=mpau009] Have i got myself confused? QUOTE]


well you got me confused :speechles

[Gly]

Ahhh, my brain..:inquisiti

I tried with limited success to get the car to idle yesterday. all was going well, and i was going to try and move it out of the garage,, until it decided after an hour to start hunting the idle around, and going lean then stalling...



did you fix the hunting problem you had before upgrading the injectors?

[mpau009]

did you fix the hunting problem you had before upgrading the injectors?

Yeah i cleaned the stepper motor, this is different, it would just randomly go from 14 AFR i had, to 21, hesitate, go stupid rich, then repeat until it stalled. Dont know, i think i'll just leave it alone for a bit before i kill something..

[Nutter_John]

Mike , can you list out the settings you have on the software

[mpau009]

Mike , can you list out the settings you have on the software


Yeah sure,

Mode: KVF Elimination

Ignition: 6 cylinder Wasted Spark

TPS: 507 - 3894

MAF Output: Baro

MAF Input: O2b (0-1v from LC-1, was running the car directly before) - Yellow wire 1-5v for wideband.

Analog Output 2: O2b

Switched 1: PSI, not configured yet, for IC Sprayer

Switched 2: EBC, External, Wired up but hose off at gate.

Enable IAT Compensation Checked, 2200 resistor between Red/Blue Maf wire and Black / Ground

Enable Auto Baro Output adjust Checked, baro out 3280 (4v) - my house is at sea level.

Any ideas?

Any chance i would have something wrong / wired incorrectly?

I would be keen to hear how you and Benh recommend it:iloveyou:

[Nutter_John]

Sounds about right ,let me download the map2ecu manual and refresh myself

You are using the secondary map ?

Also it will run very lean whilst cold and as the engine warms it will come richer

[mpau009]

Sounds about right ,let me download the map2ecu manual and refresh myself

You are using the secondary map ?

Also it will run very lean whilst cold and as the engine warms it will come richer

Yeah, i am planning on running two maps, but only for boost. I havent connected the switch up yet though.

The one you sent through is similar, but is set up for MAF elimination? As is the base VR4 one that is kicking around.

Is it a problem to run lean on cold start up?

I havent tried either of the maps you sent through, because of the difference in settings which confused me? Is it possible the map part is correct, just not the ecu settings?

[Nutter_John]

yeah thats what i was thinking , the proper map is the secondary

set it to MAF elimination and select secondary map (from the software)

running lean on cold is fine as long as you wait for the car to warm up , with the injectors being a different flow rate and spray pattern , getting an idle that works on cold and hot is a tough challenge

[mpau009]

yeah thats what i was thinking , the proper map is the secondary

set it to MAF elimination and select secondary map (from the software)

running lean on cold is fine as long as you wait for the car to warm up , with the injectors being a different flow rate and spray pattern , getting an idle that works on cold and hot is a tough challenge

So does that mean i should physically change the wiring from KVF output to MAF output as well? What happens with the Baro signal? or is that not an issue?

Thats whats really got me confused now, i am pretty sure i have wired it right for KVF, but now it sounds like it should have been for MAF?..

[Nutter_John]

No it is KVF , I just called it MAF asin MASS AIR FLOW

can you write down what wires you have wired to where

so pin one on map2 connects to ping 59 on main ecu etc etc

[mpau009]

No it is KVF , I just called it MAF asin MASS AIR FLOW

can you write down what wires you have wired to where

so pin one on map2 connects to ping 59 on main ecu etc etc

Ah okay i think i get it.

My wiring is as follows:

KVF Out (Blue) - White/Blue (pin 90, using the Vee's diagram)
MAF/BARO Out (Green) - Green/White (Pin 85)
Switch Out #2 (Purple) - Boost Solenoid negative
Switched Out #1 (Yellow/Green) - Intercooler sprayer, not configured yet
KVF Input (Grey) - (will be for either Map switching or Launch control)
MAF/BARO Input (Orange) - O2b, Narrowband simulator on LC-1
TPS Input (Brown) - Yellow/Black (Pin 84)
Analogue Out #2 (White/Black) - O2 Sesnor Input (Pin 76)
O2 (Yellow) - LC-1 Wideband
2200hz Resistor - Red/Blue to Black

12+ - Ecu Power
2 x Ground - Ecu Ground

Ignition is around the right way, as it has been doing it for a while now.


Any clues there? should i be using the MAF out instead of KVF?

[Eurospec]

Right, i havent read all of this, so bear with me......

Remember that you cant get round the cold idle enrichment that the stock ecu possesses. Ie if you put bigger injectors in there, then whilst you can map for that, on a cold start, the stock ecu will still do cold start enrichment by the same ammount. ie the pulse width increase will be the same, but now on bigger injectors, thus giving a very rich mixture- richer than both you and the stock ecu intended.

Given that engines need a ridiculously rich mix to start, this is not a problem, except for the immediate 'post cold start driveability'. So heres what to do:-

Make sure your stock O2 sensor is disconnected, and any O2 adjust feedback you may have enabled in the map 2 is OFF, or disconnected. Ensure your stock fuel trims are zeroed out by doing a battery reset.

Start the car, dont care if it pops and farts or runs super rich. Have it outside with the bonnet up to prevent heatsoak on the ait sensor.

Get the car to running temp.

Then, using the method Nick described, tune the idle using the fuel table.

I would recomend tuning the entire area around the idle. Make sure the next load line above (below in the software, ie less vac) is significantly richer than idle.

Remember also that fuel injector latency plays a big role at idle- thats why its such a bitch to tune! The larger the injector you use, the greater proportion of desired pulse width is taken up with the time required for the injector to open and close. This is the reason why you cant use a big correction at low pulse widths. Eg if your injectors are 30% bigger than stock, and you have a stock base map, then you cant expect to apply a 30% correction at low pulse widths, it will be much less. The impedance issue also exaherbates this latency too.

Once its up to temp, tune the idle to 14.7. Then free rev to get the rpm sites above idle. Tune them to 14.7.

Make sure the bonnet is up, otherwise the ait will heatsoak and you wil be fighting that, and that the O2 is disconnected, otherwise that will move the trims and you will be fighting a losing battle as you try and tune against a moving base.

I havent checked your wiring, but make sure your KVF Out is right, the rest will just throw a cell code, and disconnect your O2 output for now. Personally i never use that. You will only really need it if you find its holding on to closed loop too long, and with 530's that shouldnt be an issue. (saying that its no guarantee, i did a 3000gt this week and it holds on to closed loop waaaaaaay too long on 550s!)

Cheers,

Ben.

[mpau009]

Cheers for the help guys,,:5shots:

I think i figured out what was confusing the crap out of me. The whole KVF vs MAF thing -i think- is because the map Nutterjohn sent me may have been from an earlier version of Mapcal?
When i open it in the latest software which i have updated to, it has the main settings as being for MAF elimination, which i didnt wire for. After spending all day trying to figure out what the deal was, i ended up opening the map on a different computer, with an older version of mapcal.. and it comes up KVF mode.

The original software i think only had two modes, where as the latest has several..

so i gave it a go copying and pasting johns map, and it is 1000x better than what i was working from:afro:

I had to change my TPS enrichment quite a lot though to get it to rev smoothly, which im guessing is to do with the changes in pipework and the extra volume in the plenum from the relocated TB.

I drove to a gas station which was the main thing, i was getting dangerously close to running out of gas sitting in the garage :P

Next stop is to drive (carefully, even though it is still very rich) 80 odd k's to the tuner next week.

Im thinking it would be a useful thing to have a guide on installing a Map2 as well, possibly i'll draft something, and post it for other people to tweak. Up until this point it haddnt seemed too overwhelming, and i guess that was because of trying to do much in one go to get it to run okay.

[bradc]

I'm going to call Gary and tell him to go for 250kw :D

[Nick Mann]

Nice one! :thumbsup:

Glad you can get it orted now! It will be good to see the results.

[bradc]

What are you up to tomorrow Mike?

[mpau009]

What are you up to tomorrow Mike?

Not a lot, car wise just got to re-adjust the handbrake and put the dash stuff and other seats back in. Going to try and make sure some of the other funtions i want the MAP2 to do are working properly.

It looks like the sticking caliper i had on the front was causing that ABS issue too, cause the light has stayed off so far.

What did you have in mind?

[bradc]

was thinking of coming over at some point

[mpau009]

was thinking of coming over at some point

Yeah sounds like a plan, just send me a text when your going to leave. Theres really not a whole lot exciting to look at, but i would be keen to have a close up look at your alloy radiator.. my 6 month old replacement one seems to be dribbling or something bizzarre, but working fine when the car is at temp?