Boot installs

[bigsed]

I have had a good look round and can'd find many pics of ICE installs around. I have some gear from my old car which I have decided after almost two years(!) to put in the Legnum (but with quick-release for track days etc!). I have a sub and a couple of amps (so will go for new speakers all-round too) to give the sound quality a lift, but it needs to be tidy so I'm looking for inspiration.
I'm thinking one side of the boot with a build to section a small area off with the sub in and the amps mounted externally to the left of the sub.
I can't loose much boot space as I have a big dog to fir in too!

It's either that or sell the set-up, settle for the cack sound and spend the cash on mods! /rally

Any advice much appreciated.

[Ghost_2008]

I have a Fli 12" sub, they come with the amp built in to the sub enclosure. I like it, it sounds pretty good, its small and easily removed. Plenty of companies sell active subs now, that way it saves you building an install and its easily removed.........

[Turbo_Steve]

But unfortunately not very dog proof!


I have two suggestions, but no pics. The first is to mount a single sub in a custom fab glassfibre & MDF enclosure on one side of the boot. I'd suggest the Left hand side, as you don't want it to get in t he way of servicing the AYC, though there does appear to be more space that side!

Amps etc can either be mounted inside the body with the sub, or inside the body on the opposite side.

Option two would be to use the absoloutely huge space in the spare wheel well.
As far as I can see, if you can fabricate a modified oddments tray (as it helps to support the boot floor) with a 12" or similar cone mounted through it, and amps towards the rear of this space.
Alternatively, if you're prepared to completely lose the spare wheel, you can get quite a lot in that space.

Issues? Getting the bass into the cabin would appear to require some ducting, as the seal between the boot floor and the cabin is pretty good. I was considering running some long, tuned ducts under the rear passenger seat? Wide and flat is the way LOL.

My preference is to mount the amps etc in the well, and graft the sub into the bodywork one side of the boot.

[HMG1K]

You can also get amps under the front seats - easier wiring running the P-Con and battery feed to the engine bay. Admittedly it is tight with length x width - but I went for this model of Pioneer amp and it was the best for the money and perfect fit for underseat mounting.

http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/25/29/182/PRS-D420/index.html

[Turbo_Steve]

HM...I'm guessing your kids don't clamber in and out of your back seat, then: If I put an amp under the seat, the cables would last about 5 minutes LOL

If your car is being used by respectful grown ups, it'll fine.

[HMG1K]

HM...I'm guessing your kids don't clamber in and out of your back seat, then: If I put an amp under the seat, the cables would last about 5 minutes LOL

If your car is being used by respectful grown ups, it'll fine.

hehehehe! :iloveyou:

I have a saloon... and is that what I need to watch for when I have kids?

At the moment the car is immaculate inside - so any kids I have will be automatically assigned exclusively to the squeeze's car! :happy:

[Turbo_Steve]

Pretty much, yes: When they're very small it's patches of vomit/drool. Then they get a little bigger, and it's random raisins, bits of breadstick, and maybe vomit, though you hope not. A bit older and it's..er...."toilet training" related spillages. Then it's "I can get in myself daddy" which means door sill scratches, footprints on the patch of carpet just next to the seat, and footprints on the seat.

Toys get dropped into the footwell, and have to be "explored for" on the way out of the car.

And you won't complain. You'll sigh, and think "oooh..I remember when this car was pristine" but you'll smile because it's actually quite wonderful, and means that your decision to buy a 10yr old Japanese car instead of blowing the savings on that massively discounted RS4 are totally justified. She's happy with the car, and so am I, though it needs to be quicker, and lose the wood, and when the seat gets a footprint, or banana on it, I just sigh and wipe the leather clean and don't worry about losing value on the car: it's already gone.

These really are the performance bargain of the century: they're a bit of everything to everyone, but the perfect performance family car.


I've had amps under seats, and CD changers, and the grown ups kick them about unintentionally. The kids would just destroy them as they get older. :)

Give how much amps, subs and everything else has come on, I am confident that as long as you can get some forced air cooling to the amps, a single decent subwoofer is more bass than you'll ever need in a family car.

[dickytim]

I have had a good look round and can'd find many pics of ICE installs around. I have some gear from my old car which I have decided after almost two years(!) to put in the Legnum (but with quick-release for track days etc!). I have a sub and a couple of amps (so will go for new speakers all-round too) to give the sound quality a lift, but it needs to be tidy so I'm looking for inspiration.
I'm thinking one side of the boot with a build to section a small area off with the sub in and the amps mounted externally to the left of the sub.
I can't loose much boot space as I have a big dog to fir in too!

It's either that or sell the set-up, settle for the cack sound and spend the cash on mods! /rally

Any advice much appreciated.

I will post up some pics of my install after I have ridden today :)

[VR4WGN]

hi guys,heres a few pics of mums vits i bought and pimped out for her,i made a custom fibreglass enclosure with a punch rockford sub,deep sub,hope this helps,im building my custom sub install in the same manner as mums,in the spare wheel well too,but without the wheel tho,i designed mums sub enclosure to be easly removed and the sub enclosure and wood top lifts out and unclips fast for quick removal if she needs to change the mag

[Fully]

Mines in here some were!
http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27626

[dickytim]

caution messy boot install attached :)

[VR4WGN]

man you should contact soundstream i think your a perfect candidate for their spiders to make webs in lol,all them amps and 1 lil sub?? or is there another few somewhare?

[Turbo_Steve]

Looks like amps for fronts, rears and one for the sub.
Not an ideal setup, I have to admit, but you work with what you've got!

Generally I leave the rears alone, just sticking a passive Hi-pass cross-over on them and running them off the headunit, though now that the kids listen to music in the car, this may change.

For running a single Alpine DDD, I'd be tempted to choose a good quality Alpine 4 channeller, and run it bridged on the second channels, though, and get my spare wheel well returned to me!!

Plus, you could sell me your spare amps LOL

[Turbo_Steve]

For instance, I reckon that the Alpine MRV-F450 V12 is a really good piece of kit for a family car needing a bit more poke in audio department. Small footprint, not too power hungry, and surprisingly underrated power wise (Alpine's I've had have been much more powerful than the numbers on the box).
I'm dead keen.

[dickytim]

actaully I don't run rears, the MRV-F340 is running the tweeters (type X), the MRV-1005 is running the mids (also type X) and the MRV-1000 is running the sub.

I had 2 x type R subs running off a MRD-1000 but sold them to free up some cash a few years ago.

The head unit is currently a CDA-9855 but is usually a CDA-7998R coupled with an MP3 stacker.

[Turbo_Steve]

Just re-read my posts: Sorry Tim: I wasn't meaning to down on your setup....I bet it sounds good, and with that lot is plenty loud!! Alpine kit is very good.

[dickytim]

it is over kill power wise but sounds really good.

I just need to sound deaden the doors to make it sound better.

[bigsed]

Lots of interesting stuff here thanks folks, I'll see what I can get built over the coming weeks if its not too cold! I think for now I'll sorth the sub out, as I ran cables to the boot ages ago as my boxed sub was in but the enclosure was too big and kept shifting about.
Once the bass is sorted I have a quite big 4-way Kenwood amp to go in but might just use it to power the front speakers when I pick some replacements for the stock ones. It's just deciding where to put that amp, if its under the seat it might get too hot, plus there's an air vent down there too. If I manage to make a resonable job of it I'll get some photos up. Cheers folks.

[VR4WGN]

good onya man,just remember its for YOU not for other people so downt worry what others think of your setup,as long as your happy with it youll love it and be proud of your onwn hard work and choice

[Turbo_Steve]

As mentioned, unless it's small, and you mount it up off the floor, or block the vents, kit under the seats generally has problems. From experience.

[yetphoenix]

I run 15" custom sub box that use very little space . the face of the sub box runs along side of the inside of the wheel arch ,the back of the sub box is the same contour as the inside 1/4 panel .

tony

[Adie]

My amp for for my sub is in one of the trays in the boot under the floor, it's been there for well over a year now with no problems:happy:

[thehedgepig]

This is mine....
http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/vbpicgallery.php?do=big&p=969

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/vbpicgallery.php?do=big&p=970

[pitslayer]

Issues? Getting the bass into the cabin would appear to require some ducting, as the seal between the boot floor and the cabin is pretty good. I was considering running some long, tuned ducts under the rear passenger seat? Wide and flat is the way LOL.

but, base isnt directional :thinking: :thinking: :thinking:


Me personally untill i get around to doing it, 6 channel kicker in the black tray under boot floor, amp all the components in the car, subs not sure, got an 8" I want to utilise somewhere, also got 3 infinty 12" subs, one kicker 12" sub, and a 10" kicker sub, its all a matter of choice of what to use and where to put, got a feeling the 8" will be in the front somewhere

[Turbo_Steve]

but, base isnt directional

Actually, that's an urban myth. Bass is LESS directional than higher frequencies, but you can still discern low frequency positioning left to right. It's much (much much) harder to build a stereo image at these frequencies, however, hence the extensive use of mono: at such long frequency lengths, any stereo image would be at best muddled.

And despite any directional component, Kyle, if the speaker is mounted under the boot floor, with no airflow between the underfloor space and the cabin, you WILL reducing the amount of bass the sub produces: it'll be in a sealed box: how will the sound pressure waves get to your ears through the floor of the car?

Hence the need for ducting: your ears should always share the same pressure space as at least one side of the cone. Restricting this in anyway (i.e. my ducting) is creating an isobaric or folded port enclosure, which requires a lot of maths to tune correctly (however can result in massive output at specific frequencies).

In the same way, the front and rear of the subwoofer need to be as isolated from each other as possible UNLESS you have done sufficient calculation to fit a port or vent or passive radiator which will turn the rear-facing, out of phase waveforms by 180degrees and fire them forward, whilst not significantly adjusting their phasing.

Speaker design is hard.

Unless you build a suitable (and strong) box for your 8", it's never going to work properly, or rip itself to pieces.

I would respectfully suggest you mount it in the armrest aperture of your rear seat, facing into the cabin. Either that, or fabricate new door-cards, and have an 8" in each front door, which would be fantastic.

Don't get too hung up on big speakers: although they will move more air, your car interior effectively rolls off the bass at 50Hz anyway: past this point, the wavelength is so long that you will only be getting fundamentals within the car.

For proof of this, sit in a car with a really big system. Listen.
Get out, and leave the door open. Walk about 5 metres away, and notice how much deeper the bass just got!!!!

[bigsed]

This is mine....
http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/vbpicgallery.php?do=big&p=969

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/vbpicgallery.php?do=big&p=970

Thats nice and neat, just what I was hoping to be able to do, so thanks for sharing :happy:

[Turbo_Steve]

It's great, but if you get a fibreglass box made up, the subwoofer needn't take up so much boot space, as it will be recessed into the body.

Really wish I could find some pictures of this process.......VR4WAGN has the technique off pat, though! LOL

[mesobitchy]

if its a good all round use of the boot ya after try this install, iv got it in mine :)

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e63/mad_mazz/Me-So-Bitchy/audio%20install/Picture004.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e63/mad_mazz/Me-So-Bitchy/audio%20install/Picture005.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e63/mad_mazz/Me-So-Bitchy/audio%20install/Picture006.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e63/mad_mazz/Me-So-Bitchy/audio%20install/Picture007.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e63/mad_mazz/Me-So-Bitchy/audio%20install/caraudio038.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e63/mad_mazz/Me-So-Bitchy/audio%20install/caraudio041.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e63/mad_mazz/Me-So-Bitchy/audio%20install/caraudio045.jpg

the bolts are 10mm.

the end result is very good, light weight an easy to remove if needed.
there are 2 amps there, one is for the 12" sub an the other (in the side) runs all the squeekers an tweeters :pimp2:
there is an powercap i there as well, an that along with the amps are wired into the pc.
i dont tend to wanna take them out but if i have to then its a very easy an almost timeless job to do so.

[pitslayer]

And despite any directional component, Kyle, if the speaker is mounted under the boot floor, with no airflow between the underfloor space and the cabin, you WILL reducing the amount of bass the sub produces: it'll be in a sealed box: how will the sound pressure waves get to your ears through the floor of the car?


you make a valid point there

[mesobitchy]

bass is ment to be felt..... oooh how good it feels when it rummbles up your spine and through your body when it hits! /lol

an you can still hear it :D

[pitslayer]

i always work on if you can hear it its not low enough

[Turbo_Steve]

oooh how good it feels when it rummbles up your spine and through your body when it hits!

Agreed, however, it isn't going to get there through the chassis of the car.
You can only just about feel the engine through the chassis, and that's throwing big lumps of metal around.

How much vibration do you think a piece of paper moving backward and forward (especially in free space) is actually going to make to the car? If the back and the front of the speaker are in the same space (i.e. not sealed from each other, at least for the most part) then:
1) your speaker isn't working efficiently. See how much sound you can make waving a 10" circle of cardboard around
2) your speaker will gradually destroy itself unless it's designed for free air use, or you're running it at much less than it's rated power
3) the reverse phase audio from the rear of the speaker will actually make it even quieter.

Bass that is "felt" actually relies on sound-pressure-waves causing oscialltions in the cavities inside your body: primarily in the air-space of your lungs, however also inside your stomach, and the fluid areas around your spine and bladder and head. It will also disturbs your hair.

The pressure differential between positive and negative wave fronts at 120dB should be sufficient to move a suspended piece of paper a good 10mm back and forth...and will do even more for your hair: a Car with a really good bass setup will have a ghostly hand ruffling your hair...slightly louder will have a phantom hand squeezing your heart and making you short of breath.

A little further will have your eyeballs vibrating, and even further can cause digestive problems and physical pain.

None of this can be achieved through the chassis of the car, unless you're prepared to mount vibrators directly to the chassis, and remove the cushioning from your seats: It's all down to air pressure, and more importantly the air pressure changing from positive to negative at specific frequencies.

You don't even need huge power to achieve this: just efficient air movement.


You will struggle to produce bass you can't hear inside the cabin of a car: as mentioned, there simply isn't enough space to produce a wavelength below 50Hz. You'll get some fundamentals at 45Hz, mainly from parts of the car vibrating as the air looks to escape.

In fact, the only way to get below 48Hz is generally to open a window...though this usually results in more 72Hz, and plenty of 48Hz outside the car.

I'm sorry I'm such a pedant about all this, but there is nothing as frustrating as people spending a small fortune on stereo that they then proceed to slag off because they haven't used it properly.

[Kenneth]

Sealed enclosures require different specifications not only in size, but also in the driver and potentiall the control circuitry. Yes you will lose some max dB capability, but if you size your driver and amp correctly this won't be an issue. (unless you want to enter a SPL comp or something)

While I am no audiophile, I built my own sub for home which included specifically selected drivers, hand built amplifiers and processor and custom designed sealed box.

The performance is different and the processor allows the driver to work efficiently down at really low frequencies and below resonance so long as the driver specs are adequate and the processor is configured for the driver.

Automotive drivers are generally designed to be usable in sealed boxes.

As for being directional... I suspect that a small driver run very hard to create the illusion of bass is probably one which you can locate directionally, however mine you can't during normal use. You cannot even tell it is operating until you turn it off.
I suspect on a more practical level that being able locate the direction of a sub is more to do with the size of the sub vs the size of the area it is operating. Big sub in small area = no chance.


To me bass is experienced as an effect, the volume or dB level isn't important so long as the drivers can move enough air so you can really feel it.
If this is the case for you, you need a big driver and an amp to run it. Whether or not you use a sealed box is really not the point.

oh, and mine has been equalised to run down to about 16Hz using a Linkwitz/Riely transform circuit.
It took me 2 years of research and work to get it all set up, but I am hugely happy with it :)

[Turbo_Steve]

Ken, you're 100% correct, however, you're talking about a sealed enclosure in the traditional sense (i.e. speaker mounted on one face of a box). This will always give the 'most musical' (i.e. best controlled) speaker dampening.

What I was getting at is that if you seal the speaker completely in the boot, (i.e. speaker completely inside a box, with nowhere for the air to get out at all) then it just won't work, which is what I was getting at.

In the same way, NOT sealing the speaker (unless you're tuning a port to it) will make it behave extremely erratically.

16Hz! I bet you don't get many spiders in your house.
What source are you using, as most digital sources HighPass at 20Hz anyway?
I know that 16Hz is the end of the slope, so is still relevant, but was curious as to whether you were a closet analogue fan?

[mesobitchy]

i know my clarion is FUBAR as it split in 2 places :( only cos it bounced its self outta its box /lol yes it was held in with wood screws.

i love to know what it puts out even in its poor state of behoned repair.
wonderfull 1200wRMS 12" dule voice :D happy days, :D

iv had it in an open box, sealed box an now how it is in the boot. an it sounds the best how its paced, do need to get another soon, i got an infinity but its noway near as good as the clarion, so i might sell that one with its box, along with a twin 12" sub box....

i know i still have it in the car for time to come so maybe at one of the shows this year i can show it, if peeps wanna see it.... the ICE that is ;)

[Kenneth]

Ah, I see. But the boot is not even remotely sealed, so this is never going to be an issue.

How is being sealed in the boot any different to the driver standing in free air or just being installed in a very small room?

Personally, I would have thought that in a sealed boot the sound quality would be crap, resonance would rattle the car (so everyone outside knows just how big your stereo is :P) and make all the bolts undo.

At present the source is a digital amp. 16Hz was just because that was the easiest combination of components which fit the driver specifications and the size of the enclosure which is really a little on the large side. It has 2 12" drivers in it and is big enough to be used to seat 2 people when on its side.


Ken, you're 100% correct, however, you're talking about a sealed enclosure in the traditional sense (i.e. speaker mounted on one face of a box). This will always give the 'most musical' (i.e. best controlled) speaker dampening.

What I was getting at is that if you seal the speaker completely in the boot, (i.e. speaker completely inside a box, with nowhere for the air to get out at all) then it just won't work, which is what I was getting at.

In the same way, NOT sealing the speaker (unless you're tuning a port to it) will make it behave extremely erratically.

16Hz! I bet you don't get many spiders in your house.
What source are you using, as most digital sources HighPass at 20Hz anyway?
I know that 16Hz is the end of the slope, so is still relevant, but was curious as to whether you were a closet analogue fan?

[Turbo_Steve]

Okay, I'm obviously being vague enough for you to get your pedant bar in :D


But the boot is not even remotely sealed
I say sealed in a relative way: just to be clear we are talking about the spare wheel well, here, and it is sealed enough for the air to make parping horrid noises as it moves in and out, and, as you say, rattle and roll like a good-'un. I don't doubt that if you get the enclosure right under there, it'll even lift the access hatch up and down, so it's sealed (but not air-tight) compared to the main boot area.


How is being sealed in the boot any different to the driver standing in free air or just being installed in a very small room

Again, I think we're at cross purposes: we're talking wheel well (i.e. boot floor) not the boot area, which is effectively the main cabin on a legnum.

If it's in the wheel well, with the lid / access hatch down on top of it, then you're effectively installing the subwoofer in your downstairs toilet, shutting the door, and then going and sitting on the sofa in the lounge and listening out for it. Sure, you'll hear it....but how loud does it have to go?

At least in free air (so mounted in the car, but allowing the rearward phase and forward phases to interfere) you'd get a degree of extremely directional bass.


I think we're actually talking about the same thing from opposite ends again.

[dickytim]

I think we're actually talking about the same thing from opposite ends again.

that's the way it looks to me.

[Kenneth]

Okay, I'm obviously being vague enough for you to get your pedant bar in :D
.
.
.
I think we're actually talking about the same thing from opposite ends again.

/haz

Yep, I think you are right on both those counts. Sorry bloke, sometimes I over analyse things :P

Factory 8" (I think) sub in the Galant is sufficient for me :)

[Fully]

Sound system should be built for the music you listern to.

I like trance/heavy metal/Soul. I can fell my subs through the seat. Even more when trance is playing :P

[Gly]

Got Bass??

DD 3515c (Power Handling RMS/Peak 1500/6000)
duel 2ohm coils
3.5 cubic foot box, slot port, with a 40hz tune,

running of a caliber CA2000D+ mono block amp (1 Ohm 13.8V) 1250W RMS

[Turbo_Steve]

25313


>| >| >| The God of Bass approves! >| >| >|

Christ, Gly, I'm guessing you don't have two pushchairs and a weekly shop in there very often?
That is a serious install, and with twin 2ohm coils I bet rattles your eyeballs!

Whilst I'm envious, I just don't need that much bass for the occasional long journey in a family car LOL

I'm with Kenny, a well setup 8" or 10" should more than suffice for most people, and can be more easily hidden within the car.

However, that being said....


>| >| >|>| >| >|>| >| >|>| >| >|>| >| >|>| >| >|

[Gly]

the weekly shop goes in there,
though some times flows into the back seat,

and no push chairs, lol

the STR is getting a 12" kenwood sub side install sub soon-ish

and the GF's marino (think 4 door toyota levin) has a twin 12" pioneer sub install

[Turbo_Steve]

Keen on the side install idea........seriously looking at it for ours.

[martin_y]

As a Bass player, I love it when the Bass can be "felt". What a pity most sound engineers of live bands take that right out of the mix and complain the Bass is "booming".

On another note (pun intended!) I really enjoy a BIG pipe organ for this reason, the Bass is amazing from those big pipes !

[Kieran]

On another note (pun intended!) I really enjoy a BIG pipe organ for this reason, the Bass is amazing from those big pipes !

Absolutely! You almost expect fire and brimstone to come rushing out of the top of them! :afro:

[pitslayer]

good system deserve an awesome copy of some nina simone

[thehedgepig]

Depending on your boot size.......

You could try something like my van of course!!!!

4 x 6x9 JBL's Powered by a SPLX 1000w Amp

2 x JBL Tweeters & 2 x JBL 3" component speakers Powered by a JBL 350w Amp

2 x 10" AudioBahn subs in a band pass box Powered by a Mutant 800w Amp

All backed up by an AudioBahn Farrrad Capacitor.

[Turbo_Steve]

LMFAO!!! THAT must be killer in the cab!
One of our sprinters has a sub-box under the passenger seat, some little hi-passed speakers in the dash, and some wicked things we found in the boot of an import screwed into the headlining. It sound surprisingly good!

Martin, the problem with huge amounts of bass is that in a lot of venues it can get out of control very quickly, resulting in a muddled sound and potentially low-end feedback issues.

That said, if it's set up right, this shouldn't be an issue: bass you "feel" isn't actually the sub bass, it's usually higher up...just "Bass" or "midbass". Frequencies between 100Hz and 300Hz are good candidates here. The "boom" is the sub bass, which (unless you're outside) needs to be limited, and is usually too low to be felt without some SERIOUS power output, which can be potentially very damaging to both your hearing and the venue LOL.

[martin_y]

Martin, the problem with huge amounts of bass is that in a lot of venues it can get out of control very quickly, resulting in a muddled sound and potentially low-end feedback issues.



That said, they dont seem to mind if the kick-drum booms?

[mesobitchy]

wanna stick another sub in the car an was thinking about the front, behind the dash, but dose anyone know how much space there is to work behind it?
i think with the sub in the rear an one in the front, along with a good set of squeekers an tweeters it should balance the sound out nicely :)
either that or go for a couple of slim line subs for under the front seats..... tho im not to convinced on them just yet.


Got Bass??

DD 3515c (Power Handling RMS/Peak 1500/6000)
duel 2ohm coils
3.5 cubic foot box, slot port, with a 40hz tune,

running of a caliber CA2000D+ mono block amp (1 Ohm 13.8V) 1250W RMS

oh my god! that is some serious bass-ege right there!
sod the buggies, an back seats is where its at for the shopping! /lol



As a Bass player, I love it when the Bass can be "felt". What a pity most sound engineers of live bands take that right out of the mix and complain the Bass is "booming".

On another note (pun intended!) I really enjoy a BIG pipe organ for this reason, the Bass is amazing from those big pipes !

why is it all bass players "feel" the same way? /lol
being a bassist myself!
gotta love the 5th B! ;)

[Turbo_Steve]

Martin & meso, both of what you describe (including the kick drum) should mainly be mid-bass....hence feeling it...though agreed both should have a substantial sub-component. I hate boomy kick drums...it should punch so hard that the snare tries to take off!

Sub-bass should mainly be about low-end fundamentals.

So if you're looking to put a "sub" in the front of the car, you should think in terms of a really good pair of 8" cones fitted in the doors. Run these with bandpass of 60Hz - 250Hz, and you'll feel everything, as it hits you hard. Let the sub in the back do the true "Sub-bass" i.e. 80Hz down, and you will swear you've got your head inside the kick drum, or your sitting on the bass players amp.

But here's the issue: no matter how many speakers you put in a car, it will never go as low as actually being in front of a PA, or even sitting in your living room with a decent setup. The interior of the car naturally starts rolling the bass off at 60Hz....for every 5Hz or so you get lower, you need twice as much power to achieve any response inside the car. By the time you're at 40Hz, you're going to struggle to actually achieve the note at all, as the wavelength of the note is longer than the cars interior! So all you're going to hear is phase cancelling: each time you try and make the low bass louder, the phase cancelling actually makes it quieter!!

Martin: from the sound of things, you've been out with the wrong engineers, though don't forget that if you're playing on stage it is going to sound completely different to how it does for the audience. I've done stage tech, and was shocked at how "dry" the monitor mix was the first time I went out.
But it's all in an effort to keep control of the sound for the audience. If we ran loads of midbass, and some decent subs on the stage, the deep bass would hit the back, turn 180degrees and fly out over the audience, now cancelling the aazingly powerful bass speakers used to entertain the audience.

If you're playing with a large setup, you'll hear the kick drum booming on stage, as drummers usually have a fairly hefty drumfill, which is complete with it's own sub. It's unlikely the bass guitar has been routed to this much (depends on what the drummer likes to hear) but if you're only listening to the front-of-house subs, your bass guitar notes are running about a quarter second behind what you're playing by the time you get to hear them. Which means the notes from your bass amp are likely to be phase cancelling them out...at least to a degree.

That said, a good engineer should be able to accomodate you to some extent...though they will argue that as long as you can hear enough to do your job (i.e play properly) then they've done their job. Which is why monitor mixers get paid less than Front of House LOL.

[martin_y]

:-) That all makes sense.

I admit I havent done that many gigs with an engineer. Part of my problem is my amp, I think. I think it has a long throw due to the ported cabinet ( 2 x 15s). And when its not loud enough for me to hear on stage, its plenty bassy in the audience.

[Turbo_Steve]

I'd suggest turning it round to face the back wall, and see how it sounds.
Throw sounds about right: part of what you may be experiencing is the length of the wavelength is such that you won't neccesarily hear really low bass unless you move away from the speaker. It's a known issue in recording studios (and dance floors!) when if you are too close to the speaker, the bass pressure change doesn't start happening until a specific distance away. The lower the frequency, the further the distance. And, of course, there tend to be dead spots at specific distances away from the speaker: either where reflect bass meets it's original wave front coming the other way and cancels out, or where fundamentals interact to induce phase cancellation.

The most obvious example is when you go to a night club or similar playing drum and bass, and you can stand next to the loudspeaker stack and only get punchy kickdrum thumping away, but a total absence of any "bone rattling drops". Yet those in the middle of the dancefloor come away complaining that they were having trouble breathing.

A recent gig at "the cresset" specified that an extra 10Kw of bass was fitted.
So duly the relevant extra subwoofers were installed (as that is what they said we had to provide, against our reccomendation).
Running the standard, balanced, rig together, we managed to achieve 115dB at the mix position, which means anyone on the dancefloor was getting a lot more: recorded was 132dB (which is painfully loud).
With the additional subs, the sound pressure level at the mix position rose to 129dB, however remained at 132dB on the dancefloor.
The extra subs (under the stage, rather than on it) were so close to the audience that they were having no effect.
However, they were working hard enough to drag the stage forward 6 inches during the performance (by pressing aganst the legs) and to require the engineers to wear earplugs, and mentally rule out the sub bass. If Mid-Bass drivers had be provided, onstage, as suggested, the audience would have been pummelled into submission at those kind of damaging sound pressure levels.

Fortunately, the engineer on the day had the good sense to back off for the most part, and keep things "on the threshold of pain" rather than "lasting hearing damage".

[matt85]

i got 4 kenwood subs laying about that i might put in a false floor in the boot

[Kitten]

I wanted my 2 x subs installed, one on either side preferably but not too fussed, to make more room for the doggies since the huge box I've got in there at the moment nearly takes up the whole boot.

Quoted about $800 with one subs/amp etc, only got one quote tho so far.

Sound about right?

[wintertidenz]

This is the boot install I did in 10 hours...

Install in my old car:
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/wintertide/Car%20Project/IMG_0024Large.jpg

Now in the Legnum:
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/wintertide/Legnum/IMG_0098small.jpg


If you already have the gear, cables and time/know-how, then it's easy :)

[VR4WGN]

Kitty,i do sound installs if you dont wanan spend 800,i know how the sound shops can be extravagant with prices.. but unfortunatly its how they is lol...

[VR4WGN]

Steve what bout active subs??those vibrating things lol,iv heard good things bout those,and i see the recaro interior has a place the active sub can actually bolt to under the seat.

[Kitten]

Approx how much would it be? I've really got to get my cambelt sorted first, but it was my next port of call...

[Oggie]

This is the boot install I did in 10 hours...

Install in my old car:
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/wintertide/Car%20Project/IMG_0024Large.jpg

Now in the Legnum:
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/wintertide/Legnum/IMG_0098small.jpg


If you already have the gear, cables and time/know-how, then it's easy :)

I my self have two re audio 12" subs lined up with a 1500watt d calss amp and a smaller 4 cha for the fronts. ( yes fronts ).. one of the lads from nzicemag will help me install it...

Looking forward to some seriously deep bass..

back in 2003.. my old inspire used to have about 3 car lengths infront and behind clear of me in rush hour crawl along the hiway time...

amazing what two 600 watt subs will do when properly powered and tuned.

I will just install teh subs and mono amp first with all the rca's ready for the 4ch later on.

[pu-11-me]

I had a fairly custom install in my last car (It was actually a ute) but at this stage i'm kinda looking for inspiration for the VR4's....

I couldn't deal with no stereo though so i had to put SOMETHING in my daily :)

There are Alpine Type - X's in the front running off that amp and just that little sub as a temp till i get the rest of my gear back. Eventually it will end up with a Rockford Fosgate monoblock and 2 Alpine Type - S 12" subs as well... Most likely a stealth install

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll278/pu-11-me/Picture099.jpg

So is someone over here gonna give me some inspiration!

[Oggie]

I had a fairly custom install in my last car (It was actually a ute) but at this stage i'm kinda looking for inspiration for the VR4's....

I couldn't deal with no stereo though so i had to put SOMETHING in my daily :)

There are Alpine Type - X's in the front running off that amp and just that little sub as a temp till i get the rest of my gear back. Eventually it will end up with a Rockford Fosgate monoblock and 2 Alpine Type - S 12" subs as well... Most likely a stealth install

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll278/pu-11-me/Picture099.jpg

So is someone over here gonna give me some inspiration!

come to http://forums.nzicemag.co.nz/index.php.. they might inspire you...

looks like my tyre well is gonna house my battery.... and at least one of my amps. I know one of the amps will be mounted infront of the subs and behind the other amp.

[wintertidenz]

There are some nice installs on that site, but just be careful of some of the guys on there - they can be complete dicks...

[Oggie]

I had a fairly custom install in my last car (It was actually a ute) but at this stage i'm kinda looking for inspiration for the VR4's....

I couldn't deal with no stereo though so i had to put SOMETHING in my daily :)

There are Alpine Type - X's in the front running off that amp and just that little sub as a temp till i get the rest of my gear back. Eventually it will end up with a Rockford Fosgate monoblock and 2 Alpine Type - S 12" subs as well... Most likely a stealth install

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll278/pu-11-me/Picture099.jpg

So is someone over here gonna give me some inspiration!

have you seen the skyline ute over here? it had a really nice sound setup ... r33ute.

[pu-11-me]

come to http://forums.nzicemag.co.nz/index.php.. they might inspire you...

looks like my tyre well is gonna house my battery.... and at least one of my amps. I know one of the amps will be mounted infront of the subs and behind the other amp.


have you seen the skyline ute over here? it had a really nice sound setup ... r33ute.

Hmmmm...... I might just have a browse through, cheers bro

My amps are going to go under the rear floor in the cargo areas but subs install is the inspiration required.... I might just go with something basic, being in a wagon and all :)

I have seen the Skyline, I HAVEN'T seent the install but.... I'll track it down down!


There are some nice installs on that site, but just be careful of some of the guys on there - they can be complete dicks...

Thanks mate... I think i'll just look around and keep my mouth shut hehe (Like i do on here ;))

[Oggie]

you could do something very different with youre ute...

for example.... 2x re 8 inch subs. they can put out 140+db.... have them mounted between the seats facing forwards... sorta like the subs in a dodge viper does...

or i spose you could go with 4 of the suckers... two behind each seat... damn sure that would be plenty of power and bass.

[VR4WGN]

um i dont want to poach or cause any nonsense but i am in the middle of discussions withSSS in PN on a standard fitment system fibreglass sub install tyre well kkit we will try support fitment in most cars but may differ,as for the fibreglass box,it works a dream,mums car has bass from Naam...in the lil vitz,leme know if theres a bitta interest and i mite invest in a kit for the vr4's complete with top cover etc...

[wintertidenz]

you could do something very different with youre ute...

for example.... 2x re 8 inch subs. they can put out 140+db.... have them mounted between the seats facing forwards... sorta like the subs in a dodge viper does...

or i spose you could go with 4 of the suckers... two behind each seat... damn sure that would be plenty of power and bass.


That's if you can get 2 or even 4 of the RE8's over here now :( I don't think they are imported anymore... another option might be to make a small box with a Pioneer flat piston sub, or if you have a bit more room, an IDMAX 10".

[Oggie]

That's if you can get 2 or even 4 of the RE8's over here now :( I don't think they are imported anymore... another option might be to make a small box with a Pioneer flat piston sub, or if you have a bit more room, an IDMAX 10".

Rockford Fosgate make 8 inch subs namely P2D28 200watts nominal and 400 watts max... that will be dead easy to power up..one large mono block should do the trick. of around... ummm 1000 watts like a eaudio1000 or similar..

tied to look at sony but they dont do 8 inch drivers no more...

[Turbo_Steve]

VR4WAGN.......any chance of you making up a fibreglassbox that fits the space around the rear wheel arch? Apparently there is a factory fit option for an 8" sub there, and I would dearly like to locate a 10" sub in that space...it should fit!

[VR4WGN]

VR4WAGN.......any chance of you making up a fibreglassbox that fits the space around the rear wheel arch? Apparently there is a factory fit option for an 8" sub there, and I would dearly like to locate a 10" sub in that space...it should fit!
stop stealing my ideas lol,Steve, yup you read my mind man..
im also going to be doing this as it seems a more logical idea for space saving to me,i have skinned rear quarters off a wreck and i will split in half and fabricat a mold that sits perfectly between the walls of the shell and then work on the appearance face too. um im also going to be considering a mounting area for the amp in there aswell but will be coushioned to disperse the vibrations,but again,ill be using 1 of 3 manufacturers for this 1 Rockford, 2-Pioneer, and 3 Sony or Fusion

[pu-11-me]

In my ute i had before the Leggy's, i had 2 12" subs in a full custom box UNDER the tray next to the fuel tank.

I ported the box into the cab and tuned it. I also reversed the polarity so the subs made pressure in the cab (ie, fired into the box and out the port into the cab).... Had 1000WRMS driving them and it was a very tight sound as the box was pretty small. Was good for 140dB :)

Don't do sealed behind the seats or between the seats, they sound ilke ass (Sorry guys, but they do haha)

[Oggie]

Don't do sealed behind the seats or between the seats, they sound ilke ass (Sorry guys, but they do haha)

Aww poo ow!

Dood thats a 5hitty pun , can ya think of a even more stink one !? :P

[Turbo_Steve]

Define "sounds like ass"...a sealed box is inherently more "lossy" but generally with a flatter frequency response....more more musical.
Porting a box requires detailed knowledge of the thele small parameters for the driver fitted, as well as it's frequency response in the cabin of the car, as this will influence the state of tune.

[W4dey]

lol i now know why i shoulda saved up for a VR4, 1 word estate lol, having got a saloon fitting my stereo from last car turned into a nightmare - will post pics of the semi finished set up soon as camera is working, but space is limited my dual 12 inch box, which will be custom built eventually due to boot shape. also cant find places for my other speakers due to the worlds smallest parcel shelf lol. and once again door speakers are a diff size 2 mine, so will have work round that lol.

like said will put up pics soon as of my work in progress :)