KKR 280 turbo upgrade on the 6A13TT

[Madhav]

I posted this thread on ozvr4, but I thought it would be nice to share it.

If you're like me, once you get to the 15psi or so limit of our standard turbos, you may want to upgrade. /rally The standards are tiny and will get you max 180-220kw atw, depending on tuning, transmission type and a few other things.


http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll300/fairytickles/P1000633.jpg
Here's (http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll300/fairytickles/P1000633.jpg) a photo of one of the standard turbos



http://www.driftgarage.com.au/images/KKR280front.gif
A pair of these (http://www.otomoto.com.au/kkr/KKR280.html) should get you to 300kw atw (we will find out soon). They can flow 280hp each according to their website. They have 360 degree thrust bearing, so not quite as good as garretts, but they come with a warranty (that includes drift applications) and are a lot lot cheaper.


Cost is from US$200 each on ebay, AU$500-700 each in Australia. Come with a 1 year warranty. Popular with Aussie drift boys.



They are not suited for our manifolds (4 bolt), but with an adapter plate fit fine. No need to change manifold. here's (http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll300/fairytickles/P1000634.jpg) one fitted to the front.


And here's (http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll300/fairytickles/P1000629.jpg) the rear, not much room as you can see.




Mods needed to fit KKR 280s are as follows:
Manifold adapter plates
Oil filter relocated
Front engine mount modified (see photo above)
Thermo fan slightly modified, needs a little trimming.
Rear firewall massaged a little
Custom dump pipes
Custom oil and water lines

Mods recommended before doing the turbos:
Brakes upgraded (either new pads and rotors or brembos)
Trans cooler or better clutch if manual
Custom 3" exhaust and front pipe
New plugs and leads
Better BOV
Decent panel filter and battery in the boot for more space
Decent fuel pump (walbro)
Custom intercooler piping and new core (at least 600 X 210 X 76, you could do this at the same time as fitting the turbos to save a few bucks)
Bigger injectors (at least 450cc, I'm using nipondenso, fit straight in)
A new ECU to handle the upcoming injector control
Oh and a boost controller.

(did I miss anything?)

Now as you can see they definitely fit, but how much power they can actually make on our engines is yet to be discovered. As is when they hit full boost, whether the auto can take the power. Ohh and the other thing is whether the engine internals can safely handle 300kw atw....

Stay tuned.

EDIT: Can't get any of my pics showing on here? Dunno what has changed? Gonna have to post links instead... if anyone can edit it and fix it feel free? got the attached thumbnails working.

[Turbo_Steve]

And it comes with Gym membership?


This is really interesting! Are you fabbing your own manifolds, then?

[Madhav]

Lol... no it's just to give u an idea of size mate.

No like I said it fits with a adaptor plate, u can keep the standard manifolds.

Should be good for 550hp at the flywheel, or around 400hp atw.

[Caveman]

Hi Mad,

This is very interesting. I have been looking at these turbos too, but wasn't sure of their actual dimensions as they're very rare in the UK - looks like they fit then!

I am the same as you, I have made all the supporting mods including the intercooler, uprated ECU to Autronic and fuel pump etc - I am just deciding on the turbo route.

Would you be interested in selling an additional pair of adapter plates and turbo elbows? Did you get a pattern made when they were fabricated? Anything you can share to enable others to do the same would be great.

Many thanks,

Mart. :)

[Madhav]

Hi Mad,

This is very interesting. I have been looking at these turbos too, but wasn't sure of their actual dimensions as they're very rare in the UK - looks like they fit then!

I am the same as you, I have made all the supporting mods including the intercooler, uprated ECU to Autronic and fuel pump etc - I am just deciding on the turbo route.

Would you be interested in selling an additional pair of adapter plates and turbo elbows? Did you get a pattern made when they were fabricated? Anything you can share to enable others to do the same would be great.

Many thanks,

Mart. :)

Yeah they fit, it took the engineer in Australia a bit of thought.... but he managed it, hats off to him, without him I'd be nowhere.

I would recommend waiting until I get them up and running first, i.e. see at what RPM they spool up and how much power they actually make etc, and we can all see the dyno charts. Also I'd let u know a total cost of all the hidden extras... If from there u still like what u see, then of course I'd be more than happy to offer it to everyone, but yeah.... first let me be the guinea pig, and also see if my engine and transmission survives.

[Caveman]

Good man! :D

When do you realistically expect to have it finished?

Mart.

[Madhav]

I reckon I'll be driving it in no less than a week, hopefully by Friday afternoon.. by then we'll be able to see the spool up time.

On the 19th I'm booked in for the ECU and injector installation, from there Dave at RPW will turn up the boost and go nuts with the tuning.

[Caveman]

This is VERY exciting, I wait with baited breath!

Please keep us posted on progress.

Good luck

Mart.

[ritch_w]

first let me be the guinea pig, and also see if my engine and transmission survives.

get amsoil ATF in there and a transmission cooler for starters! (thats if you haven't already ;) )

[Oblivion]

:D I'll be keeping an eye on this for sure!

[scott.mohekey]

VERY interesting! I wonder if there is an importer of these in NZ?

[CANDEE]

VERY interesting! I wonder if there is an importer of these in NZ?

Here you go..

http://www.jdmperformance.co.nz/catlink-catalog-223-223.html

[scott.mohekey]

Cool! I actually know the guy that owns/runs JDM Performance.

[CANDEE]

Cool! I actually know the guy that owns/runs JDM Performance.
Discounts?? :P

[scott.mohekey]

Lol, I could ask him next time I see him. He's given me discounts on some things in the past. I don't see him often though, and I don't think I have his number at the moment.

[Goku]

Hmmm..... I was told about these turbo's about a year ago, but didn't have the cash to look too much into it....

If smohekey here can get us some sort of discount... might be an option :P

[Madhav]

get amsoil ATF in there and a transmission cooler for starters! (thats if you haven't already ;) )

Yeah mate have done 2 x ATF flushes, last one was with amsoil. Cooler is installed already also, from here there's not much more I can do.

[Madhav]

That price is pretty high? I got mine for AU$500 each from a licensed distributor, so I know for sure the warranty is good and the turbos are genuine...

[scott.mohekey]

Does it make a difference that that price is for the 330 rather than the 280?

[Madhav]

Well turbo wise, the 330 flows more hp, but has a slower spool up time, so I'd go for the 280 personally unless you're looking for crazy hp... price wise I think they are pretty similar for all the 'kompact' series, i.e. the 280, 300, 330 or 280.

[scott.mohekey]

So the prices from JDMPerformance are over the top?

[CANDEE]

So the prices from JDMPerformance are over the top?
Just a tad.. lol

[Madhav]

Size comparison of two turbos.

Well you guys from NZ might be better off getting it shipped from Australia, either that or checking ebay? I'm not sure whether those ones on there are genuine though? Do ur research first.

[Fully]

JDMPerformance are very expensive.
He siad he will give me a good price on slicks, when he told me the price I shat myself.

[Goku]

Hmmm.... looking at the KKR main website (in china btw) they only come with a 6month warranty and it looks like a lengthy process.

[Madhav]

Found the main website here

http://www.otomoto.com.au/kkr/turbos/index.html

You're right about the warranty being 6 months, someone told me 1 year, but yeah, I read it also... but from what I hear they are used by drift racers, and they still honor the warranties for those guys.

[Goku]

Hmmmm.....

They must also be made in China too, though they do link to the aussie website.

They have the specs up on the KKR 300, it's a lil less powerful by the looks of things.

http://www.kkrpower.com/admin/KKR.asp

[CANDEE]

I had a talk to the guys @ Otomoto and a pair of 280's shipped to nz is 1500. :)

[Madhav]

How much was shipping? I'll find out where the dude who bought mine got them from. He paid around NZ$1200 for two.

[CANDEE]

How much was shipping? I'll find out where the dude who bought mine got them from. He paid around NZ$1200 for two.
That was 1500 aud including shipping to nz...

That would be cool if you could find that out. :)

[macbaileyjr]

i sent them a price request for 2 shipped to florida and this is what they sent me.
don't think this price includes shipping though




HI Marcus,
thank you for your enquiry.
The cost for 2 x KKR280 turbochargers will be AU$1398.00.
We do not offer any form of adaptor plate to suit the Mitsubishi 6A13engine. Regards,

Grant Warne
Manager


Otomoto Pty Ltd3/8 York Rd
Ingleburn NSW 2565
ph: (02) 87981469
fax: (02) 87981485
Web: www.otomoto.com.au

[Caveman]

Hi Madhav,

Any updates? You got it runniing yet? :D

Mart.

[Madhav]

Hey Mart,

On monday morning he had the Dump pipes in, from here it was just plumbing up the water and oil lines. Will go in this afternoon (as I type this it is 8am on Wed) and check it out. Should be very close.

Oh and Candee I will try to remember to ask where he got those turbos.. sorry I totally forgot.

Yo Mac, I can source adapter plates for you and probably those turbos at AU$1000 for two, just gimmi a few days to find out details.

The engineer said he may be able to do a complete "Bolt on" kit, which could comprise of:

Manifold adapter plates
2 x custom dump pipes ( the reddish iron looking bit which comes directly off the turbo (see photos) which will bolt directly onto RPW's shiny 3" front pipes)
Oil filter relocation kit
Custom front engine mount
Maybe even custom oil and water lines

But lets see how this all goes, if it actually spools up quick and makes good power, then we can look at doing a kit. Be patient.

EDIT: Went in this morning and he was mega busy on some new silvia drift car (thing had a huge TD06 in it) Didn't want to bother him, so it looks like the waiting continues....

[Caveman]

Cheers for the update. I would definitely want the upgrade kit so count me in on that mate. How long til you get the car running?
Mart.

[Madhav]

Impossible to know? I thought it would be done by now, seems that the last little bits are taking ages. Hopefully soon.....

[Turbo_Steve]

Isn't that always the way? You get all the really hard stuff done (fabrication, pipework, mounting etc) and get hung up getting a couple of oil-lines made, or wiring the MAP sensor or something equally stupid.

[Madhav]

So here's the update:

That bloody motor-vation car show in Perth on this weekend has held everything up. Wayne sponsors some of the cars entering, and a few of them came running in demanding him to drop everything and work on their cars immediately.

Only update is that the oil and water lines will be fitted this afternoon, and then on Monday the Turbo Y pipe and the last few bits of plumbing. ETA is wed next week. The cost....hmmm... this I'm afraid of.

Good news is that it has all actually fitted and worked out, and if the turbo spools up well and makes decent power, then the goal has been achieved of a turbo upgrade. From all this come a genuine opportunity of an almost bolt-on turbo upgrade kit for the 6A13TT.


No need to change the radiator either check the pic below, just shave an inch off the plastic casing.


But lets see the dyno print out first.

[Turbo_Steve]

PLEASE post your dyno readings: am very very curious to see spool charecteristics etc.

Also, what ECU arrangement are you running to control all this?
Piggyback? Standalone?

[Madhav]

Initially I will use haltech miniceptor, will see how i go as it doesn't support bigger injectors, after a few weeks I go for the E11 full ECU replacement.

[Turbo_Steve]

Interesting Choice.
I take it yours is a manual?

[Caveman]

Mad's car is an auto mate.

Mart.

[Madhav]

Yep it is auto, am gonna test once and for all the strength of the autos.. Have done a recent amsoil flush, and oil cooler has been installed. If auto fails I will rebuild and strengthen it up.

[Turbo_Steve]

Is there any chance you would mind fitting an oil pressure gauge to the box somewhere? I'd be interested to know what sort of pressures you see.

[Madhav]

Sure, but I got no idea how to do it? I used the 'how to install a boost gauge', is there something similar?

[Turbo_Steve]

Just need to "Tee" a pressure gauge into one of the lines going to the transmission cooler: that should be sufficient, as the whole system will be running at a constant pressure.

[Caveman]

Any news?? :D

Mart.

[Madhav]

Almost done, manifold goes on today, top cooler pipes and then start her up and a quick tune and dyno run.

Pics are:

1- rear turbo, basically done.

2- Front turbo, waiting re-locate oil filter, very fiddly job.

3- Custom front engine mount pic also

[Ryan]

I'd get rid of that pod filter sharpish if I were you.

Apart from that it looks tip-top!

[Turbo_Steve]

I'm not sure I would: the standard airbox is going to start being a limitation with turbos this size, as is the inlet pipework, and possibly the MAF.

As it'll need a complete remap to run these properly, the MAF isn't much of an issue, as it can either run with a bypass pipe, or simply be fitted into a larger diameter pipe and rescaled. I would be keen to locate the huge pod filter into the wing somewhere, or into a cold-air box, but that can come AFTER it's up and running :)

[bradc]

Madhav still has the maf at this stage, but with a full ecu and tuning having a pod filter doesn't matter, you can tune around it

[Turbo_Steve]

well, that's not strictly true: The main drawbacks with pod filters seem to be MAF innacuracy and heatsoak.

You can't map around heatsoak, but then with the amount these will flow, it's less of an issue.

MAF innacuracy can be a problem regardless of ECU, however. If they airflow distortion pattern is linear, then, yes, just correct the MAF scaling and the problem is solved. However, typically, the innacuracy is down to inlet side turbulence, which can mean varying different air-speeds at different rates of flow, in some instances causing the MAF to underread. The best fix for this is generally to move the MAF away from the filter: a 25cm piece of pipework should be more than sufficient to achieve this.

Also beware of locating the MAF too close to the turbo inletts....not a problem on VR-4s as the y-shaped split for the twins breaks down any vortex created by the impeller, however on a single turbo system it's benficial to have a stable airspace between the turbo and the MAF, either a bend with pipe either side, or an insert in the duct.

[Madhav]

I got a cold air intake, flows from the front, to the right of the grill, up through a pipe, and ends up right under where the battery used to sit, i.e. where the pod is. Will also put a bonnet vent just on top of this, and notice there is a piece of steel there acting as a kind of heat shield... all these combined should provide ample cool air. :scholar:

[Caveman]

hi Mad,

Any updates, you got her running yet? As I said before, I'd like to order the upgrade kit or as much as possible from your guy. Could you find out how much it would be and parts it will include?

Cheers,

Mart

[Mr.Salas]

Hey dude, what are the specs on the turbo ?? what's the turbin side and whats the compressor side specs

[Madhav]

Hi mart. It's done, as far as i know wayne was just checking for leaks, will check tomorrow. It was quite a process, a lot of trial and error. Will get a tune etc and if all is good will let u know about what exactly is needed for the upgrade and what Wayne can make up and what it will cost etc..

Mr Salas, check the start of the thread, each turbo is good for about 280hp.

[Madhav]

KKR 280 spool up time, 3rd gear going up a steep hill applying very light throttle.



Youtube video Link (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4hHDtwc2To)



Overall I can say I am very impressed with the spool up time, although I still haven't opened it up at all and have to drive like a granny till it's tuned on Monday.

[Caveman]

Wicked - congrats mate and big respect for taking the trouble to do it right.

I will be first in line to do this next if all works out! :D

Keep us updated on tuning.

Mart.

[Turbo_Steve]

Engine bay looking very nice.....Y pipe is a bit of a bodge, but it still looks cool: your mechanic obviously likes attention to detail on a budget.

Can't view video from work, but very interested in costs if the spool is okay.
Not sure how these stack up against TD04's though - suspect they're cheaper and not that big a compromise on spool.......ohh very exciting!

[Madhav]

Spool is good considering how much power these turbos can make. I mean I can't give it much throttle at all cause it's not tuned and obviously detonation could destroy all the effort, so I'm gonna have to wait till Monday for a tune, but in it's current state at 1/4 throttle, it hits 5psi by just under 3000rpm, and 10psi by 3600rpm.... so not bad in comparison to the standard turbos. Will see when it's tuned with the dyno readout how it looks on Monday.

[bradc]

Looks and sounds good, now start cranking it up :)

[Madhav]

Should be tuned by tomorrow morning, getting the oil changed and put on the dyno this afternoon at RPW. I'll try to get the dyno tune on video so you can all see the spool up and power info.

I went to see Baileys automatics, this guy stuart really knows his stuff, he has rebuilt and strengthened up nissans, subis, toyotas, evos, fords, holdens, basically everything. I showed him my car and told him my plan of 250-300kw atw and he reckons that the main problem in these autos failing is the oil heating up. Rather than a full rebuild etc, he said to chuck one of these thermo oil cooler fans on by B & M.

http://www.atlanticspeed.com/productcart/pc/catalog/b&m_70298_free_257_detail.jpg Cost about $400 plus installation. (comes with a free t shirt?)

The other thing he recommended that really spun me out was to add a shift kit. (I didn't even know they were available?) He says he can get one installed for only $350!! And it can be turned on and off from within the cabin!!

Will get all that done next week before RPW puts the 650cc injectors in and boosts it up.

[Turbo_Steve]

Wow...people on here have generally just found that fitting a small cooler-rad helped: not sure the fan is really neccesary, though it probably gets warmer where you are than it does over here!

And yes, the general consensus on here is that the boxes are pretty good once they're adequately cooled.

What is a shift kit? Paddles?

[Madhav]

The temp over here at the moment is 34 degrees, over on the east coast, it was like 45 degrees, no kidding either... The average temp is above 35 for feb. Don't know much about the shift kit, just know the car will shift a lot faster and harder when desired.

Got the car tuned, was only a very quick tune, boost controller turned off completely... will go all out after injectors, ecu and auto trans work is done. So basically it makes 10-12psi at 3600rpm atm, these turbos hold power all the way to redline, big top end potential, however low end torque was reduced, so a bit of a trade off.

[Throbbe]

Cool. I know it's not there yet, but any chance of seeing some plots?

[Louis]

A shift kit would be good!!!. You can do it yourself but you have to strip the box and drill holes or enlarge holes in the ATF fluid plate so the fluid flows faster through certain passages. It makes the gearchanges quicker and more aggressive.
I did it on a Buick auto box by following a diagram of where to drill the holes. A kit would be more like a replacement plate, but would still mean dismantling part of the box,
Or perhaps he means a type of quickshift kit? (for the auto??)
looking forward to your results, good luck

[Madhav]

Dyno printouts, the darker print is current KKR 280 tune, the faint looking lines are the previous tune with standard turbos. The readings are KW at the hubs.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll300/fairytickles/sc0044eb6a.jpg
Power and Torque. Loss of torque as you see, but huge potential for top end power all the way to redline, especially when we start to turn the boost up.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll300/fairytickles/sc0045114e.jpg
MAP and AFR. Remember this is boost controller turned off and very minimal tuning... 9psi at just over 2500rpm aint so bad, can't wait to see what happens with 15-17psi!! Although this will have to wait a week or two.

[Goku]

That's a huge drop in torque, but the power seems to have a nicer flow.

[Kenneth]

less boost = less torque. Once you wind the boost up to 15psi+ then the torque graph will look nice.

Can you get the ATW figures? "Flywheel" figures are not really very useful when comparing to others.

[Mitsiman]

All figures are at the wheels. The correction factor is set to 1 so flywheel and wheel figures are identical

[Kenneth]

All figures are at the wheels. The correction factor is set to 1 so flywheel and wheel figures are identical
:thumbsup:

I did wonder, thanks for the clarification :) Good work, looks very nice.
Can't wait to see it with some boost added in there :)

[Goku]

Oh right, I forgot about that part.... it should look sweet when it's pumping a bit more boost :D

[thfelipeth]

sooooo how are the turbos??? whats the final power figure??? are you going to post anymore videos? cheers

[Madhav]

Delays, delays... the auto trans dude who was supposed to call me back to book in a time to do the thermo cooler and shift kit never called me back, so I'm physically going in there tomorrow and gonna find out what the deal is.

After all that is done and installed, only then will I tune it and boost it.

[peter thomson]

Is the shift kit similar to what this site has for Ford/holdens

http://www.shiftkits.com.au/ShiftKitsFord.aspx

[Madhav]

Yep, from the FAQ it explains it well, thats basically what I was told.

What does it do ?
The shift module connects to the vehicle's engine or transmission control unit, and alters the way that the transmission shifts from one gear to the next.
The single stage modules provide a firmer shift that is selectable by the flick of a switch, whereas the Two Stage modules have two independantly selectable stages of shift firmness which can also be selected by a switch. Adjustable modules are supplied with a variable control giving you total control over shift firmness.
These modules are also able to be completely overriden by switching them off, therefore your car will behave exacltly as it did without the module installed.

How does it work ?

The module alters the signal the engine / transmission control unit provides to the transmission to control the line pressure. By slightly increasing the line pressure, the transmission changes harder from one gear to the next. This not only reduces heat generated within the clutches and bands in the transmission, but also will increase transmission lift and reduce wear.

Will it damage my transmission ?

The shift modules will in fact reduce wear and friction within the transmission, therefore your transmission will last longer.

Shift kits for various transmissions have been around for years, but now with the new range of electronically controlled transmissions, these are the only option.

How do I install it?

The shiftkits.com.au shift moule comes with complete step by step installation instructions, Installation generally takes 30 minutes. The tools / items required for installation are wire cutters, soldering iron with solder, electrical insulation tape and cable ties. To mount the switch or control on an interior panel, you will require a drill and relavent drill bits.

So what do I get?

Installation instructions and diagrams
Shift Kit Module with pre-wired switches / controls
Delivery generally takes 3-5 working days from when payment is received.

[Louis]

Excellent!

[peter thomson]

Is that the one they plan to install or have they one that is aimed more at our cars and thanks for confirming that


Yep, from the FAQ it explains it well, thats basically what I was told.

What does it do ?
The shift module connects to the vehicle's engine or transmission control unit, and alters the way that the transmission shifts from one gear to the next.
The single stage modules provide a firmer shift that is selectable by the flick of a switch, whereas the Two Stage modules have two independantly selectable stages of shift firmness which can also be selected by a switch. Adjustable modules are supplied with a variable control giving you total control over shift firmness.
These modules are also able to be completely overriden by switching them off, therefore your car will behave exacltly as it did without the module installed.

How does it work ?

The module alters the signal the engine / transmission control unit provides to the transmission to control the line pressure. By slightly increasing the line pressure, the transmission changes harder from one gear to the next. This not only reduces heat generated within the clutches and bands in the transmission, but also will increase transmission lift and reduce wear.

Will it damage my transmission ?

The shift modules will in fact reduce wear and friction within the transmission, therefore your transmission will last longer.

Shift kits for various transmissions have been around for years, but now with the new range of electronically controlled transmissions, these are the only option.

How do I install it?

The shiftkits.com.au shift moule comes with complete step by step installation instructions, Installation generally takes 30 minutes. The tools / items required for installation are wire cutters, soldering iron with solder, electrical insulation tape and cable ties. To mount the switch or control on an interior panel, you will require a drill and relavent drill bits.

So what do I get?

Installation instructions and diagrams
Shift Kit Module with pre-wired switches / controls
Delivery generally takes 3-5 working days from when payment is received.

[bradc]

So then how come it isn't setup like that from factory?

[Wodjno]

So then how come it isn't setup like that from factory?

Cos it isn't :inquisiti

[phosty]

So then how come it isn't setup like that from factory?

from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shift_kit

An automatic transmission's main focus is smooth shifting between gears. To accomplish this it often goes into two gears at once while shifting up, which is known as a shift overlap. In these cars, it is a kit that can reduce or eliminate the shift overlap. It will also reduce wear because the transmission won't be trying to drive in two gears at once.

Typically, adjusting the shift 'pattern' in an automatic gearbox involves interrupting the signal from the ECU to the transmission (usually with a switch, though the adjustment can be made permanent). The resultant shift pattern is usually very aggressive (it will 'bang in' to gear) thus making a car a handful in the wet as well as opening the possibility of damage to already weakened transmission internals. It is advised that you service your transmission more thoroughly than usual if you undertake this adjustment.

[Madhav]

From what I was told the kits are made by someone else, he is supposed to be able to make them up specifically for our transmissions, however like I said he hasn't gotton back to me. I don t know whether it's a polite way of him saying he's not interested in doing the job, or whether he was genuinely busy or forgot or something...

[Madhav]

I was told just that, it is a very forceful shift, but it is adjustable from within the cabin...

[Madhav]

Ok so I went in there and the dude wasn't there, no contact for 1 week, so I left it at that, am getting my thermo oil cooler and injectors fitted next week at RPW. From there hopefully will get it all tuned up and boosted also at the same time, either via this new ECU reflash or via something else.

The shift kit will have to do a little more research on...

[thfelipeth]

Ok so I went in there and the dude wasn't there, no contact for 1 week, so I left it at that, am getting my thermo oil cooler and injectors fitted next week at RPW. From there hopefully will get it all tuned up and boosted also at the same time, either via this new ECU reflash or via something else.

The shift kit will have to do a little more research on... all sounds very interesting and quite fascinating. please keep us posted... specially about what you do about the transmission.. cause if we can make the auto transmission a lil quicker would be awesome and might make the manual boys jealous lol!!! cheers...

[Caveman]

hi Mad,

You've gone very quiet, do you have an update on this mate? Keen to know the results!

Cheers,

Mart.

[Madhav]

Don't worry mate, I'm still here and am as keen as mustard to know the results also.

The car is at RPW now and everything is in; the 650cc injectors, the thermo oil cooler etc... and the tuning (aka maximum boost) will be done within the next 15 hours and all will be revealed...

I will post up the dyno readouts and if I can be there even post a video.

[Madhav]

Went into RPW today and Dave was there on the dyno with my car revving the hell out of it...

For the last few days he experimented with a Greedy piggyback system, but with all the compensations and tuning and adjustments and counter compensations etc it turned out to be a little challenging with anything over 13 psi.... I'll let him explain, but in the end we agreed to go for a Haltech E8 ECU. For now it will all have to wait till next week for the installation and tuning though...

So far the car has managed over 220kw at all 4 hubs with only 13psi, so this is great power and it means there is still plenty of boost left to play with!! I briefly heard it hit 18psi at one point... my God, you should hear these turbos spool, the amount of airflow is very very loud!!!

[Mitsiman]

Just the combination of very large injectors, larger turbo's is resulting in very large afr swings everwhere. It woudl come down to a good tune at 100% throttle or a good tune at low throttle, but not a good tune for both.

If the vehicle had stock turbo's with slightly larger injectors then the greddy would have worked perfectly.

But with the injectors so large, there are just too many factors competing with each other. I could probably make it work but it is not somethign I would feel comfortable doing.

At least by going full EMS I know we can tune it 100% properly without any compromises on low or high boost. Looking forward to getting stuck into it next week as Madhav said, its already making more power now than previously, and the boost curve is much more stable compared to other VR4's I have worked on.

[Louis]

Just out of interest, was the greddy piggy back the blue one or the ultimate one?, I thought the Ultimate may have been ok?

[valmes]

Just the combination of very large injectors, larger turbo's is resulting in very large afr swings everwhere. It woudl come down to a good tune at 100% throttle or a good tune at low throttle, but not a good tune for both.

If the vehicle had stock turbo's with slightly larger injectors then the greddy would have worked perfectly.

But with the injectors so large, there are just too many factors competing with each other. I could probably make it work but it is not somethign I would feel comfortable doing.

At least by going full EMS I know we can tune it 100% properly without any compromises on low or high boost. Looking forward to getting stuck into it next week as Madhav said, its already making more power now than previously, and the boost curve is much more stable compared to other VR4's I have worked on.

I wonder if you are in a "holy war" or something, against Greddy... :D

I have two "almost stock TD05s" and six "almost stock" 800cc injectors... sh!t I am able to drive it to the supermarket, like a DD, go to other town 800 kms away twice a week and it's still capable of 0-100 sprints in 4 sec flat... yeah and the teperature swings from +35 to -35 C over here... am I doing something wrong with my Greddy Ultimate?

If you don't like something that much, it won't work for you. Period.

PS: I think we did have a discussion about this in here: http://ozvr4.com/forums/showthread.php?t=296&highlight=ultimate

[Soltek2002]

Hey for the guys in NZ who might be interested in this upgrade found this which appears to be rebranded KKR turbos

http://www.driftsideracing.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=62&Itemid=87

Could be something to consider even for the guys back in oz with the exchange rate and all

[Mitsiman]

It was the older emanage blue which the ultimate uses the same tuning principles.

And I personally love the emanage units - have been using them for years and they are a favourite computer of mine. The were always one of my first choices in some applications.

As I showed Madhav, whilst it was possible to tune the vehicle, I would not be able to tune it to the same level that I normally like to. The result would have been large rich spots in the tune where we run out of adjustment. There was simply too much fiddling required to make it work.

[valmes]

I wonder how much of a difference would make a different set of cams in there... any plans to upgrade?

[Madhav]

Yeah Dave, from a business point of view I think you should at least research and document the results of a cam upgrade in the 6A13TT. I would happily offer my engine as a tester!!

[valmes]

Also sorry to go offtopic, but it seems like AU and NZ guys preffer to measure in Kw at the wheels, rather than awhp like in US or bhp like in UK... although it's not hard to convert things... What (% or number) do you use to convert from Whp to Bhp?

75 awkw = 100 awhp ~ 160-190 bhp

220 kw at the wheels would be ... bhp?

[bradc]

kw to hp is 0.746, the 'standard' loss that was agreed upon some time ago was 24% for manuals and an extra 7% for autos.

[valmes]

where did you agree on that? can you give a link to the topic? since it sounds a bit odd... but going off topic here is not a good idea.

[Subaru ETA]

when you guys start talking in old money i just use this website :

http://locost7.info/converter.php

:D

[valmes]

kw to hp is 0.746, the 'standard' loss that was agreed upon some time ago was 24% for manuals and an extra 7% for autos.

Alright... 220awKw = 293 awhp (31% loss..) = 383bhp?

[Madhav]

I did it like this:

Assuming the power was 425hp at the flywheel to start with, and then you minus 31% of drivetrain losses from that figure (around 131hp), you end up with around 293hp at the hubs.

4.25 = 1% of 425

Then times that by 31

You get the 131 number,

Then minus that from 425

and you should end up with the atw hp figure

425-31%=293

Make sense?

[valmes]

Hmmm... so you think 131 hp is lost while it gets down to the wheels?
Now following this logic at 550bhp you will have 170 hp of loses?
At 1000 bhp (in theory) your loses will be at 310 hp?

Am I the only one who sees problem with that?

[bradc]

Most stock VR-4's in NZ get between 155 and 165kw at the wheels. The 24% conversion would make it 156.6kw assuming the cars indeed have 206kw at the flywheel.

The truth is probably something more like (206kw - 20kw) * 0.84 = 156.

My car recorded 228kw at a dyno. If I took it to 10 dynos I would probably get runs between 220 and 235. Based on the first way, I make 300kw. On the way I've just suggested above it would be 291.4kw, which is probably a bit more accurate.

What we can all agree upon is that an Auto making 220kw at the wheels is a heck of a lot more than stock and is going to be somewhere in the 290 to 320kw at the fly range.

[Madhav]

The 31% drivetrain loss I got from here on this forum, there is a thread somewhere here and yeah now that I think about it the 31% 'across the board' figure seems a little high...

I have no idea what it makes at the flywheel? To be honest I don't really care that much, am more interested in power at the wheels, torque and 1/4 mile times... So yeah like Brad said, it probably looses 40-60kw or something around there...

Wait a few days and you'll see what these cars are capable of at the wheels with two kkr's 280's boosted to 18psi

[valmes]

I guess we will just have to go by the wheel hp/kw numbers...

Waiting for results! ;)

[bradc]

Any Valmes, have you had your car on a Dyno yet?

[valmes]

Any Valmes, have you had your car on a Dyno yet?

I am waiting for installation of the first 4wd Dyno in Siberia ;) ...
They said it would be ready in March ...
Thats why I was asking questions regarding power losses ;)

[Madhav]

Look forward to seeing your results mate, first one to make 300kw atw without blowing anything up wins!! /boxing

On another note, how is it even possible to measure power at the engine???

[valmes]

Feeling competitive? :D Well, good luck with your run! ;) I am still a month away from getting any dyno proven results, but at least I will know what to aim for! ;)

There are engine dynos... they measure power right from flywheel.

[Caveman]

Hi Mad,

What's the ETA on this then? Do you have a price or a contact for the kit yet? PM me if you like.

Cheers and best of luck,

Mart.

[Madhav]

ETA.... hmmm... well I guess it depends on RPW at this stage? Friday possibly?

Last I heard the options were reduced to only two:

1: Use the ECU re-flash software to re-program and adjust injector size, and from there use the emanage.

2: Install a Haltech E8 and tune from there.

Like I said mate, I have asked about the kit, and it will most likely be possible. I have asked and Wayne hasn't given me a price yet.

Give these guys a call, they are the ones that did all the fabrications and plumbing: Embleton Engineering: +61 8 93302808

[Gowf]

Hmmm... so you think 131 hp is lost while it gets down to the wheels?
Now following this logic at 550bhp you will have 170 hp of loses?
At 1000 bhp (in theory) your loses will be at 310 hp?

Am I the only one who sees problem with that?

I fully agree.

No 2 cars are neceserely the same. Due to tolerancing and wear, the transmission losses will be different from car to car. Even down to wear in CV joints will effect the power lost to the wheels.
As for a power loss percentage, well again its no true science and the dyno measures the loss on the rundown and calculates from there.
If it was a blanket figure that remains unchanged then yes losing 310bhp would be the case....But in my case when the car was standard (with a lightend flywheel) it made 273bhp at the fly and 211 at the wheels giving a 29% loss.
When it made 397bhp on the same dyno it was 320 at the wheels a 24% loss. So ok, there may only be 5% difference in losses between the two, but once you get up to the big power lke you said valmes 1000bhp, 5% is quite substantial.
Surely also, if power/torque figures are to be compared, then they should be from the same dyno? I know this has geographical and logistical issues, but could at least use the same make of dyno say dyno dynamics? Otherwise there are far too many variables making comparison a nightmare. I suppose though the true test is that of the 1/4.
Sorry to go off topic, this sould have its own thread started somewhere else.

[bradc]

As long as we are all realistic, sensible and mature about it, we will be smart enough to realise that (for example) my car at 228kw and Gareth's car at 235kw at the wheels, either car could be 10kw different, my car on that same dyno could very well produce 220kw, or 230kw, I wouldn't be suprised either way. What we both know however is that our cars produce a crap load more than stock :D

[Turbo_Steve]

And let's not forget that the operator makes a huge difference, not just the dyno itself: stuff like resistance settings, temperature compensation tables (some dynos are temperature sensitive) and goodness knows what else.

Generally speaking, the shape of the curve against AFRs, Knock, EGTs, boost and ignition & injector timings are more useful for diagnostics than the eventual peak figure.

So as long as we all keep a realistic perspective these are just a good guide: unless we're all going to pop our engines out and get them bench dyno'd, this remains a bit of fun.

[Madhav]

Update, and not such a good one.

Dave at RPW had it on the dyno and tried tuning it, but unfortunately smoke started once again pouring out of the car, so it's back to the engineer to try and figure out what the deal is...

Hypothesis is either it's getting too much oil into the turbo and needs a restrictor on the line, or the seal is stuffed and if thats the case I'm asking for a full refund on both the turbos and going for garretts, as this is the second problem we have had with them so far.

[Ryan]

Update, and not such a good one.

Dave tried tuning it, but unfortunately smoke started once again pouring out of the car, so it's back to the engineer to try and figure out what the deal is...

Hypothesis is either it's getting too much oil into the turbo and needs a restrictor on the line, or the seal is stuffed and if thats the case I'm asking for a full refund on both the turbos and going for garretts, as this is the second problem we have had with them so far.

Sounds time consuming either way. Hope all it works out one way or another :2thumbsup

[Madhav]

Time consuming is an understatement... if it needs new turbos, we are talking like another month at least.

I've been forced to rent a 1000cc ford festiva for the last week, supremely underpowered piece of turd!!! Great on fuel though.

[Madhav]

UPDATE: Fixed the oil pressure problem and finally had the car tuned.

It made max 260kw atw, which is around 350hp atw at 19psi.

Had a huge increase in torque, like 40%, and also got better spool up, now hits 12psi at 3100rpm.

Haven't driven it yet, will get it back in like 36 hours. It's actually still got more in it, but will need to go twin fuel rail setup to gain an extra 10-20kw.

The fainter looking lines are from the previous tune at low boost.

EDIT: If ur like me and don't know what KPA and lbft is?

12psi is about 80kpa, 15psi is about 100, 120kpa is about 18psi...

That torque figure below in lbft works out at around 450nm

[elnevio]

That is looking good - shedloads of good boost, and a veritable mountain of torque! Happy days! :D :thumbsup:

[foxdie]

Oooh :D

[Louis]

Well done, looking good, was there a fault with the other turbo?.
Am I right in saying that that is on standard VR4 injectors, at 90% duty cycle?

[Madhav]

Ohh yeah forgot that... First tune was with a miniceptor and stock injectors. 650cc sards with a haltech e-11 were fitted on the second tune. 260kw atw was with the new injectors nearly maxed out at 90%, however with a twin fuel rail setup this will improve.

There was an initial problem measuring the correct oil intake pressure. Glad we fixed it as it made a difference.

[Turbo_Steve]

Looks like you've sacrificed around 250rpms of spool for a massive increase in power. Nice :)
Very jealous, here :D

[Madhav]

Hopefully you're correct, haven't driven it yet, but looks good on paper....

Unfortunately the gearbox has started to play around a bit since the new Haltech E-11 installation. Slips out of gear while in Drive, as in you're driving along and all seems fine, the revs are rising the... vrooom...neutral??? then ease off the throttle and it changes to the next gear...

In tiptronic it holds fine but still revs and hesitates/lags between gear changes 1-2, 2-3, and sometimes 4-5... We don't quite yet know why, i.e. whether it is the clutches dying or it's something electronic? It's only been driven a few KM since the ECU change and seems to have improved in those few KW, am kinda hoping it will 're-learn' and fix itself like it has previously....

[Ryan]

That is some MONSTER power there... that's awesome Madhav - well done :D

[Turbo_Steve]

Mad, have you retained the factory ECU and piggybacked the HalTech, or replaced it entirely?

Generally the best results are to be had by keeping the factory ECU in and aware of the nightmare that's going on (from it's point of view) but having the standalone actually look after the engine.

The factory ECU looks after the climate control switching, powersteering solenoid, Gearbox, etc etc etc and the piggyback does the engine. NOt sure if this applies to the VR4, but it's definitely true of several other models.

[Madhav]

Replaced the ecu entirely, will see how it goes over the next week or so.

[peter thomson]

Did Dave discover what info the gearbox and engine ecu's exchange between each other

[Mitsiman]

The factory ECU is still running in the vehicle and providiing all data to Auto ECU. We cut the injection and ignition wires and controlled them directly. Eveything els is still hooked up to factory ECU

[Turbo_Steve]

Ah, the "frankenstein" piggyback arrangement: one of my favourites.
Have you disposed of the MAF, then? Are you feeding a slave output from the Haltech to tell fibs to the factory ECU to prevent Check Engine lights?
It's definitely a good way of avoiding having to setup ancillaries like Idle, Climate control, Powersteering (not sure if VR4s have a Steering Solenoid) alternator disconnect etc etc etc

[Mitsiman]

MAF has been removed and the haltech now uses the CEL light for its own internal checking and reporting of faults. Have done this many times and it always works a treat on vehicles. I have three other VR4 auto models now running this same setup.

[Turbo_Steve]

I've done similar with Motec & PowerFC and seen it used with Autronic: definitely allows you to hand over from the factory ECU gradually one function at a time if you're eventually going the whole hog later, or just "cherry pick" the functions you want otherwise. Neat. :)

[Madhav]

Had this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axo5lgM4qvQ)video on Ozvr4 for a while, shows acceleration from 70km/h to 150km/h in third gear, take a look, it's great.

Also got another (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3BUd4B8tKQ)one showing spool up time vs RPM in 3rd gear going up a steep hill.

Look forward to getting the gearbox sorted out soon so I can do a 0-200km/h and a 1/4 mile run.... Found a place (http://www.cobratransmission.com/)in the states that can supply a full rebuild kit (clutches, steel parts, the whole lot) for the W5A51 auto for only 300 pounds, and that includes delivery.

[Ryan]

70-150 is just boss! Very impressive and I'm quite jealous too... ;) GBP300 is very good value for money if it includes delivery. You sure they deliver to Aus though? Forgive me I sound skeptical but quite often there's the size 8 font saying "excluding international customers"... I wonder how much it would cost to send over?

[Madhav]

Dude the cost of postage was like us$70, and that was factored into the price I listed above sent usps to australia, check the link, they ship overseas.

[Madhav]

Well it turns out the old auto gearbox is officially stuffed. Mechanic finally pulled it apart and found bits of metal everywhere. So rebuild it is, however thanks to that place in the USA, the cost of parts isn't so bad.

[Kieran]

Well it turns out the old auto gearbox is officially stuffed. Mechanic finally pulled it apart and found bits of metal everywhere. So rebuild it is, however thanks to that place in the USA, the cost of parts isn't so bad.

What place in the USA Madhav?

[Louis]

Ludite lol!, click on the underlined word "place" link in the post above (132), it's a link to the "place", lol!

[Kieran]

Ludite lol!, click on the underlined word "place" link in the post above (132), it's a link to the "place", lol!

/duh /duh

Can't see for looking!! /pan Thanks Louis!

/Clicks cunningly linked website.... :smart:

Ooooh... This is good news though. If you can get kits to rebuild them, that possibly means we (as in CVR4 and OZVR4) have another option rather than just slinging gearboxes on the scrapheap when they go. It won't be that long before they get scarce so it's good to see that someone's making progress in this area. :thumbsup:

[Madhav]

Yeah that mysterious 'place' is actually very helpful. Answers emails very quick, accepts paypal and ships at very reasonable prices. I ordered a 'master kit with steel' which includes all seals, clutch packs and basic steel requirements. Also picked up 5 solenoids. From here mechanic will do the rest and hopefully the problem will be fixed.

[Louis]

Did you get the 5 solenoids from the place also?

[Madhav]

Yep scored the solenoids from there also. US$43 each.

[peter thomson]

There are 6 solenoids in our box though. Did you order 6 Madhav

[Madhav]

6 solenoids in a 5 speed? Arhhh crap, these cars seem very confusing some times....

I actually ordered 10, 5 for me and 5 for someone else at the request of the mechanic, so one of us will miss out, and it ain't gonna be me.

[peter thomson]

I assumed it would be 5 as well until I looked on ASA

[macbaileyjr]

Madhav have you put together a kit yet with the adapter plates and what other bits are needed to go this route minus the turbos

[thfelipeth]

is the car going alredy? any more updates?

[Madhav]

Arhh sorry guys been overseas again, missed this.

No the car is not going, just had the 100k service done and transmission rebuilt and strengthened, along with a few other things to make it all indestructible on the driveline side. Mechanic said it will be all done next week, he is just testing a few more things.

To answer the first question. I dunno if the engineer who did my car wants to see or have anything to do with another VR4 ever again... It was a lot of screwing around. So to make up a kit that bolts on... well... honestly from what I witnessed there would still be a lot of custom everything. Saying that I will at least try to get a quote on the bits and pieces and from there let you know.

[MarkSanne]

Which/how was the transmission strengthened?

[Ryan]

Which/how was the transmission strengthened?

Mark, I think if you read back a little on the thread Madhav obtained some stronger AT bits from the USA :)

[Madhav]

From what I know my mechanic was getting information from the auto trans specialists in Australia who was consigned to build the uprated auto gearbox for a racing version of the ralliart magna (http://autospeed.com/cms/title_New-Car-Test-Mitsubishi-Magna-Ralliart-Automatic/A_1532/article.html) (shares the same internals of the legnums gearbox)

I will find out hopefully in a few day exactly what they did. All I know is it has been done before and mitsubishi were happy with the result.

[Madhav]

Seriously overdue update:

The car is now running a manual transmission with an ACT HD street clutch.

Gone is the torque sucking heavy auto transmission, and after driving it for the last month I am very happy with the result. I'm still getting used to the explosive power increase from 3000rpm onwards. There is still a little more tuning to be done and once this is done I will post up another dyno chart and a few more videos.

[thfelipeth]

glad to hear that you didn't throw away this project! looking forward to the dyno results and specially videos of this project :)

[mpau009]

Good to hear its all up and running :chugchug:

Hopefully you can settle into some good power thats reliable-ish :P

[Madhav]

Thanks guys, seems pretty reliable so far. The guy that does the tuning has gone on holidays so I gotto put up with a bit of a rough (but safe according to him) tune.

Have to get used to driving hit with a manual, the revs go from 4-7k so damn quick in first and second it's ridiculous.

[phosty]

So at what power level did the autobox let go then?

[Adie]

I believe it was around 260kw at the wheels

[GoldenDragoon]

Thanks guys, seems pretty reliable so far. The guy that does the tuning has gone on holidays so I gotto put up with a bit of a rough (but safe according to him) tune.

Have to get used to driving hit with a manual, the revs go from 4-7k so damn quick in first and second it's ridiculous.

Yes but its soooooooo much more fun though!

Post a vid of the 3rd gear run in the manual, or better still a dyno run. Would be interesting to see the difference a manual makes.

[Madhav]

The auto didn't actually let go due to too much power, it was running fine right up to the day the new Haltech ECU was installed, unfortunately it was wired up incorrectly, from then on it went into limp mode, which lead to a lack of gearbox oil pressure, and therefore oil starvation.

Final tuning isn't done, so therefore no dyno run. I could do a video in 3rd gear, but it really needs more tuning, and the tuner isn't back till early march, so I have to wait.

[Madhav]

Got the car back from Allstar garage. Allstar have a rock solid reputation, the sultan of brunei's son pays to fly this tuner to Brunei to tune all his cars.

Interesting to note was the dyno print out compared to RPW. The power is actually down 5 or so KW and this is AFTER the manual conversion?

Anyway putting power figures aside they fixed the misfiring problem completely. Power comes on smooth as silk now and is a lot more steady and predictable.

It really is a different car to drive, the torque output has definitely changed, you can see the difference when you check the old dyno readouts from when I had the stock turbos. Max torque by 2500 along with full boost.

So there it is, finally complete. Am I happy with it? When the revs are above 3000 to 3500, yes, it absolutely rockets to redline, and now with the manual you can hold the revs high on take off, but a part of me misses that ballsy low down torque. In a sense it is a trade off, you get a lot more power higher up in the rev range but you loose your low end insta-boost turbo and torque...

I actually caught myself thinking, "I wonder how gt25r's would compare?" Reason being it would be a relatively easy swap... and I have started seeing a bit of grey smoke lately and the allstar garage said it is either the turbos going or valve stems seals or something... They said keep an eye on it and let them know.. I thought, "mmmm...garretts...hmmm..."

[--hoff]

the second graph is much better than the first one....well done job... =)

[Turbo_Steve]

You know what - I reckon those turbos are verging on too big!
I also reckon the Garretts will am absolutely amazing - close to the old spool time, but with the same peak power.

I bet your fuel usage is way better............................if you can resist putting your foot down.

[bradc]

The power still drops off a bit though above 6000rpm with a steady boost, if anything the boost is going up a bit around 6600rpm. I wonder if it is due to cam duration or timing?

Having a look at your old dyno's, with the auto you were running at 1.25 bar across the entire range with a small peak to 1.276 bar at the end. Your max power was with around 1.23 bar. On your new dyno your max power was with about 1.18 bar.

You need to get the boost back up to around 1.25 or 1.3 bar across the whole range :D

[MarkSanne]

You know what - I reckon those turbos are verging on too big!
I also reckon the Garretts will am absolutely amazing - close to the old spool time, but with the same peak power.


Which Garretts might that be Steve? (I've searched this topic but can't find a model number, I do know there is no easy upgrade way, but, who knows... I might be next doing something 'stupid' ;) )

[Anderz]

It is probably the GT2554R or GT2560R ball bearing turbos. Both uses the same T25 inlet flange as the KKR 280. Have not checked the physical size of the 2554R compared to KKR 280 but maybe it is even smaller. That means it will bolt on to the standard manifolds with adapter plates :)

2554R:s is what I am planning to install some day:bananadan

[Turbo_Steve]

That's the fellas :)

[Nutter_John]

Yeah I did loads of research and ended up working out that the 2554's would be awesome on the vr4 , they are the smallest BB turbos but are supposed to flow enough for 270 bhp each

[Madhav]

Yeah I think the boost could be upped from 17psi to 21psi and this could potentially give more power, maybe 10-15kw? I don't know, at the end of the day 250kw atw is pretty damn good.

If the kkr's are failing, as in this is the cause of the gray smoke, then I will ask about replacing them with gt25rs as they would be physically smaller and should be a relatively easy swap considering kkr turbos are desingned to be a bolt on upgrade for nissans. All the ground work is done. Will take it to embleton and ask him. There is a mechanic next door to him, I'll get him to diagnose it, I hope it is the turbos and not the valve stem seals now.

The turbo size is comparable with a lot of 'big single' turbo setups, as in when the boost and torque comes on, just not with what us vr4 drivers are used to, we are all spoilt. But yeah I will enquire.

[wintertidenz]

Aren't these turbos relatively new? I would be pretty surprised if they were failing already!

[Madhav]

Pics of the new tune vs old one. Top two are with the manual transmission, just tuned yesterday, bottom two are with the auto transmission, a few months back.

[scott.mohekey]

Aren't these turbos relatively new? I would be pretty surprised if they were failing already!

I seem to recall they were either starved of oil or oil pressure was too high at one point.

[Madhav]

Aren't these turbos relatively new? I would be pretty surprised if they were failing already!

Yeah I would be too, will find out soon what the problem is... and yeah the first time they failed was because one of them wasn't primed properly and had an incorrect oil pressure restrictor.

[thfelipeth]

was that 255 kw at the flywheel??? am i reading that wrong?

[Madhav]

255kw atw, even though the chart says flywheel.

[phosty]

Nice! The peak figures and boost figures look very similar but then I noted that you now hit 224kW ATW @ 4500rpm whereas the RPW tune only hit 210kW by 4500rpm.

Since the boost curves are very similar it seems to show the value of a good tune!

The boost curves are both very good and seem very flat once peak boost is hit....compared to the stock tubs which generally seem to show a drop off at higher revs. Which suggests you may be able to get more out them?

[Madhav]

Had it diagnosed, definitely valve stem seals... will still enquire about the turbo swap while I'm at it though.

[Madhav]

To update: a week before going in to drop off my car to get the v s seals changed, the timing belt tensioner bolt randomly snapped on me. The car was still running after it snapped, but it sounded like a tractor with the timing belt cover rattling on the cooler pipes, after i switched the engine off, it refused to kick over... I dropped the car off early to the mechanic, and he said I now had to change the engine.

Called up the mechanic who did the 100k service, explained the situation, he said he's done many vr-4s and the timing belt is done all the same, and it would have snapped due to either stress or old age but not over tensioning. I don't know what to think? But either way he said he'd change the engine for only $200 in labour.

So i scored another engine with similar km from an aussie forum member and this one looks to have been looked after (plastic vr4 engine cover in good cond) and am now like the auto to manual conversion days, playing the waiting game.

I will be taking the engine back to stock turbos though and selling the car. So if anyone is seriously interested in a bolt on turbo kit proven to make good power you day has come. Just don't know how long it will take to get the mechanic to finish the job! But it will happen eventually.

[Colin Wiltshire]

just read through this and still interested in the kit. I have a pair of kkr280 turbos waiting to go on. If you still have it, how much would you be interested in? also post to uk

[Madhav]

just read through this and still interested in the kit. I have a pair of kkr280 turbos waiting to go on. If you still have it, how much would you be interested in? also post to uk

I actually sold the kit a long time back to a guy from south Australia, so I cant help you, however if you log onto ozvr4 and search for a member called ,"bogan bob" he has the kit and maybe able to help you out sourcing all the other bits and pieces.