ECU Flash for VR4

[kc427]

Hi all,

Yesterday, I tried the OpenFlash V1.40.2178 and connected with OpenPort 1.3 cable, and I could successfully download the ROM file from my 98 facelift Galant VR4 M/T. Since I didn't check the ECU number, so, I assume it is MD340288(I checked from the CAPS with my chassis number). If I have chance, I will try to look at the ECU in my car.

By comparing the ROM file that posted by AderC and Valmes, the MD340288(M/T) and MD340289(Auto) I found there are only 2 differeces:

MD340288
&h00000209 01

&h0001FEFA 45 4D 32 30 30 34



MD340289
&h00000209 02

&h0001FEFA 45 4D 32 30 30 35

which means, "EM2004" and "EM2005"


Other than that, both ROM files are the same.

Now, I looked at the xml definition file posted by Valmes(Sorry Valmes, I didn't ask for permission, hope you don't mind), which is for ECU Edit. I searched around from internet and couldn't find any xml definition file for ECU Flash, so finally, I modified it from ECU Edit, and I can use it for the ECUFlash. But I met a problem, from Valmes's definition file, there are many unknown maps with zero address, so, I don't know what the map it is for. But anyway, I can see the ignition and fuel maps by the ECU Flash.

If anyone of you know more about the addresses of the maps from the ROM, please let me know, so that I can add into the definition file for the ECUFlash, and let's share the maps :)

Attached is the ROM, xml definition file for ECU Flash, and some screen shot of the ignition and fuel maps.

It may be the very first xml for ECU Flash, so just read the data from ECU Flash for references only.


/thankyou

[miller]

WOW, thats good going! even as a novice i can read how the ecu has to increase its load with the low octane fuel from 4.5k rpm in low loads onwards!

Does this mean you can successfull alter the map to your requirements and 'swap' it for the standard one?

Have some Rep by the way!

Mike

[Kieran]

Excellent - Thanks for sharing your work with us! :thumbsup: Have some rep!

[kc427]

WOW, thats good going! even as a novice i can read how the ecu has to increase its load with the low octane fuel from 4.5k rpm in low loads onwards!

Does this mean you can successfull alter the map to your requirements and 'swap' it for the standard one?

Have some Rep by the way!

Mike

No, as far as I know, with the ECU Flash, we still cannot flash the ROM yet. But with this fuel/ignition map, we can have a rough idea how to tune with piggy back stuffs, like E-Manager. ;)

[Louis]

Well done!

[Turbo_Steve]

Are you sure the low-octane and high-octane maps are the right way round?
The high octane one actually appears to run richer than the low octane one, which runs contrary to accepted wisdom, though if ignition map 2 is knock corrected, then I suppose it would run leaner with less advance and rely on the driver using more throttle!

[Beastlee]

So can I bang them into my E-Manage blue as a default map? Currently it's been wired in for 6 months and not had a single map in it. Keep meanign to spend time fititng the de-cat and wideband sensor but as it's between -14 and -5 degrees here at the moment I don't fancy rolling around on the floor.

[Wodjno]

So can I bang them into my E-Manage blue as a default map? Currently it's been wired in for 6 months and not had a single map in it. Keep meanign to spend time fititng the de-cat and wideband sensor but as it's between -14 and -5 degrees here at the moment I don't fancy rolling around on the floor.

The E-manage maps show all 0.0.. These are the defaults !

If you change the values to what are in the maps above :inquisiti Something will go bang very very quickly :speechles

Because were it shows + and - values in the MAPS from our ECU! Put those into the EMB and you will be adding or subtracting those figures from the ECU default values /pan

If you were running a Standalone then you could use the above values.. But not for a Piggy as you already have them....

[Turbo_Steve]

Yah, Lee: as Wodj says, just need to get your lambda in, and then add a touch of fuel to the EMB wherever it looks a bit lean. Simple as.

[Wodjno]

Yah, Lee: as Wodj says, just need to get your lambda in, and then add a touch of fuel to the EMB wherever it looks a bit lean. Simple as.

I think you mean take quite a bit of fuel out where it looks ALOT rich :scholar:

[GT40-Steven]

Excellent !

I have a few questions to the experts
1. The fuel map number is oxygen/fule mix right? So the higher number the leaner mix

2. How can the load be above 100%?

3. What's the difference between ignition map 1 and 2?

[mpau009]

This is fantastic! i am looking at going to a stand alone aftermarket computer in the next month, and having a start up map was the big issue for me. This type of info will hopefully save some serious $$ at the tuner

[Turbo_Steve]

I think you mean take quite a bit of fuel out where it looks ALOT rich

Depends how much boost he's planning to run....but yes, you're probably rather accurate there, Wodj.


GT40-Steven:-

1) Yes it is. Yes it does. It'll be a target AFR based on the closed loop compensation tables: i.e. what it learns about duty cycle and knock on closed loop are used to modify open loop mode.

2) 100% load would be the engine at atmospheric pressure, i.e sucking in as much air as it can. However we have turbochargers, which take the engine beyond this level. 200%, however isn't always 1Bar above atmospheric, as the scale isn't always that linear.

3) Not sure, though usually one is a "safe" map (so not much advance anywhere, resorted to when knock count starts looking high for a given period of time) and one is a more efficient map. Most factory ECUs will have an interpolation algorithm to pick a number between the same cell in the two maps, usually based on another variable like (knock count/time) which is often quoted as "assumed octane" or engine temps or all sorts, really, and sometimes a mixture of those!

[Turbo_Steve]

Just noticed the interesting "400%" load point on the ignition maps....wonder why?

[bradc]

Not sure, it is the same as 200% though. Maybe it is just so that the ecu can interpolate all figures between 200 and 400% as the same, just incase you somehow get above 200% load the ecu still knows what to do.

[Nutter_John]

well if Vr4's are normally running at 0.6 bar then maybe the 200% is 1 bar and anything above 1bar is just using that interpolated result as Bradc is suggesting

[Turbo_Steve]

What boost does fuel cut occur at? That'll be 201% :D

As for the 400%..it probably is just for safety...but it seems unusual.

[bradc]

Heh, most likely at 200.1%, but good idea Steve, I guess you are on the right track and that is probably worth investigating.

[kc427]

Guys,

I updated the XML definition file, because I mixed up the fuel map naming. So, I updated:

High Octane Fuel Map --> Fuel Map Rich
Low Octane Fuel Map --> Fuel Map Low


Anyway, forget the old one, and use this new one. Thanks. :D

[kc427]

Are you sure the low-octane and high-octane maps are the right way round?
The high octane one actually appears to run richer than the low octane one, which runs contrary to accepted wisdom, though if ignition map 2 is knock corrected, then I suppose it would run leaner with less advance and rely on the driver using more throttle!

I updated the XML, and the "high octane fuel map" naming has been changed. so, it may make more sense. You can use the new one and have a look :)

[kc427]

Not sure about 200% and 400%, but, does it mean WOT situation? Just curious....haha

[Eurospec]

Thats great work!

The load scaling works in conjunction with the air flow meter, but you pretty much can consider 100% is atmospheric as has been mentioned and 200% is one bar. Beyond 1 bar the ecu will use the 200% collum for load.

There is a separate map that controls the fuel cut which is scaled by load and rpm. I wish i knew how to dissassemble, but i dont and i'm affraid i cant help you with the address for it. It will be prolly an 15 x 2 map if that helps. Thats the one that will let you turn the fuel cut to a higher value. There is also one for target boost too.

The high and low octane fuel maps are how the ecu 'pulls' timing when it sees knock. Knock enough and it will pull timing all the way back to the load map. (it can interpolate the two maps)

If we could find a way to re load the flash (it may be something to do with the ecu coms line in the odb2 plug) then you could do all kinds of sexy stuff. Obviously the basics of editing the fuel and ignition maps, but also move the fuel cut up, move the boost up without a b/c (although with the single bleed solenoid set up this may not be that effective), rescale for a larger airflow meter, rescale the maps to allow mapping beyond 200% load by for example blowing away the 20% and 30% collums and then using those 2 at the end of the map for a 220 and 240 (or more) load.

Well done mate, fantastic work.

Cheers,

Ben.

[Turbo_Steve]

Ben, is the GTO AFM Frequency or Voltage based?

[Eurospec]

GTO, VR4, EVO, and FTO GR are all Karmen vortex mafs, so yep, you could rescale that.

Cheers,

Ben.

[Catalan]

mivec use MAP

[Eurospec]

mivec use MAP

Indeed they do. FTO GPX's that is.

Cheers,

Ben.

[Catalan]

galant ea with mivec from singapore too

:D

[evonut270]

by the looks of it the xml file is incomplete with regards to the fuel table.as stated already 200 load is approx 1bar.most of the current evo load maps go between 260 -300 tops unless you rescale.there is a possibility that they can be remapped as the same processors are used as the evo 5 + 6.ecuflash is now capable of reflashing the 5 and 6 with the new OP2 cable the 1.3u will not be able to reflash.

[Ryan]

I found this interesting PDF on MAF / VAF's

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h34.pdf

[AderC]

Version 1.41 of ecuflash now supports reflash of our processors!

BUT

only works with the Openport 2.0 cable (and I've got 1.3 /Grrr )

http://openecu.org/index.php?title=EcuFlash

aDe

[GT40-Steven]

How do I know if the cable is Openport 1.3 or 2.0? Check the drivers?

Any volunteers that is prepared to start working on a fuel economy map? ;)

Edit: Just checked at the EvoScan store and mine is 1.3 as well/Grrr :end:

[Davezj]

are you having a laugh or are you saying our standard ECU can be modified.

we can change our fuel maps and the like.

can you confirm this if so i will look out for a openport 2.0 cable happy days.

how did you find this info out.

Is this what is required:-

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Tactrix-OpenPort-2-0-w-adaptors-for-Subaru-Mitsubishi_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33597QQihZ00 2QQitemZ120347761770QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[Eurospec]

Looks like it!

I'm gonna get the cable on order from tactrix (in nz) and then i just need a volenteer!

It will be a reflash process like on an evo, but if this works and the xml definition is okay for all ecus then it should be fine.

Remember you need the xml definition for every different type of ecu- meaning every different part number. I have no idea how to generate the xml definitions!

Cheers,

Ben.

[miller]

Ben, how long do you need the donor/volunteer car for?

[GT40-Steven]

/Banana /Banana /Banana /Banana /Banana /Banana /Banana /Banana /Banana /Banana
This thread is starting to get really exciting

[kc427]

That's very good to hear that our ECU can be flashed. Unfortunately, I only have the OpenPort 1.3 cable.... >.<

Any volunteer can do the flash with the ECU? So that whoever thinking to buy the a cable, 2.0 is a must.

The xml definition file I created was just converted from ECUEdit definition file posted by Valmes. However, there are a lot of parameters not yet be found out.

[kinkyafro]

This is excellent news but before i get too excited and order a cable I want to check my understanding...

This applies to ECU's with H8 cores only (all VR4's from Mid 96 onward)? If you have an older car with the MR16 core you're out of luck?

If my understanding is correct a compatible ECU part number list might help?

Cheers,

Rich.

[Nutter_John]

there is a big list that was compiled a while ago by one of the guys from down under , can't remember his name but it listed all the part numbers for nearly every 8th gen vr4 and also it's processor core

[kinkyafro]

This one? http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34551

It only identifies one definite MR16 ECU part number presumably theres at least one more for the M/T of the same time period?

"1996 pre-facelift auto MD340289 and that has the MH7201 processor"

[AderC]

How do I know if the cable is Openport 1.3 or 2.0? Check the drivers?

When I plug the cable in and it installs the drivers, mine comes up as "openport 1.3 mitsubishi".

Openport 2.0 looks like the pic below:

uploaded/1988/1233955287.jpg

Openport 1.3 looks like this:

uploaded/1988/1233955385.jpg


aDe

[Davezj]

so are you saying you have an openport 2.0 cable aDe.

and when it installs the drives for it, the computer thinks it is a 1.3 cable.

[mpau009]

Im very keen to give this a go.. Is it something i can realistically do by myself? I have just spent ages cutting out my MAP2, and am saving to buy a Link G4 standalone ecu. But for $2400nzd if this can get the same type of result i'll give it a go. Am i fooling myself, or are there some places to start learning how to go about it.

[Eurospec]

I'd prolly only need it for a day Mike to play with it a bit.

The biggest issue is the rom deffinition. (the xml file) I cant dissasemble or anything, so i cant create new xmls. The xml will be unique to each individual part number ecu. Manual and auto will be different, as will uk vs jdm.

The xml rom definition will define what can or cant be seen or changed. If it cant be seen it cant be changed even if it is there if you see what i mean.

Assuming the rom definition is for a particular ecu, then any car with that ecu can have its ecu edited by using that rom definition. If valmes has done it, i'm sure he would have had a damn good go at getting as much in there as he could.

Ref the ease of tuning vs piggybacks/standalones. Its certainly harder when doing things you have to flash, because there is no live mapping possibility. You have to observe what happens, turn off the car, make the change and load it, turn the car back on and retest. You rinse an repeat till its done. That could be extremely time consuming. Something like a link G4 Storm (which is excellent by the way) or a Haltech, or even piggybacks like a map2 etc are much much easier to do since you make the change and you see an instant response.

Piggy back is harder to achieve consistancy with than standalone, but they are much more complex in their initial set up.

Bottom line, as with all these things, start with small changes and get into the complexities as you gain confidence.

Also bear in mind that the stock chip will have been set for a certain number of write cycles. i dont really understand how this works, something to do with how the memory works. With a stock ecu chip in an evo they recon you get about 100 writes, but saying that last time i saw this discussed, one guy was saying he'd done thousands on his. Eventually the write corrupts and thats it game over chip. Standalones/piggybacks will take tens of thousand of writes before they start to tire- but then thats what they are designed for.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,

Ben.

[Eurospec]

Sorry one last thing:-

Yes there are places where you can learn to do this. EFI University being one. They do courses around the world, but dont be surprised if you have to travel. I did mine in California.

Or wait till the summer when we start doing courses here and pop on over!

Cheers,

Ben.

[Gly]

this is currently being spoken about on ozvr4

http://www.ozvr4.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4510

8g vr4 ecu flashing has been done by a guy in russia, (to all 8g ecu's)



I was right!
Called Dmitry 5 mins ago, he told me that he plans to release to public the module for EcuEdit that'll be able to reflash our ECUs in the middle February.
So what we need: OpenPort cable, VR-4 ECU, and a little patience while Dmitry makes this module.

[Paul C]

BenH,
I have a Vr4 Tip-Tronic 1996 ECU that I know longer requirer if you need one to play with. I'm back in 4 weeks so give me a shout if you want it.

[kinkyafro]

So reading around we're talking about two methods

The openport 2.0 ecuflash method which looks like it requires a facelift ECU (also OZVR4 attempts to flash the mh7203 chip introduced in 2001 have so far been unsuccesful even though it is H8 based).

The Dimitry method which uses ecuedit and is otherwise an unknown quantity (may involve desoldering chips or other nasties) and is reported to work on mid-1996 onwards ECU's (although i thought the VR4 was introduced in July '96).

It's also worth noting that the Dimitry method is not yet in the public domain but reportedly imminent while the openport one is available now.

EDIT:
Some stuff here doesn't make sense having taken a look at the CAPS database and read through some of the Russian threads using google translate... I suspect that Dimitry's method is basically the same as the openport method but utilising a homebrew cable..

The main reason I think this is that the ECU part numbers (A/T MD340289 M/T MD340288) don't start transitioning to newer ones until February 2008 and I don't see how the ECU could undergo a processor change without having a new part number. There's also a few mentions on the russian forums of the ecu needing to be in a plastic case - speaking personally my November 96 MD340289 ECU has the metal casing.

[Davezj]

EDIT:-
picture of metal and plastic ECU. not my original pic's i think they came from Kenneth. first 3 pics 97 ECU and last 3 pics are 2002 ECU don't know if they are manual or auto engine ECU's

25958

25959

25960

25961

25962

25963

[Turbo_Steve]

Well, we definitely know that some ECUs (notably it seems to be the facelifts) are in plastic cases whilst the PFLs generally seem to be in metal, but then there seem to be exceptions to that rule: probably around the "crossover" time, they were just taking what was available at the time, i.e. Late spec PFLs may have the newer ECU.

[Hotwire]

Dmitry's information of the MH7201 only being till mid 96 is incorrect. From my research, ALL steel cased (Pre-facelift) ECU's have had the MH7201FS chip. I believe Dmitry is correct though that the MH7201 is the M16 core, as I have tried numerous methods to read the MH7201 in my car and I can't.

So to get the MH7202 it seems it is only in the 98-00 facelift ECUs (01+ seems to be MH7203 which its unclear if that has a H8 core or not)

[Davezj]

so are you saying the M16 core (read metal cased pre Facelift ECU, manual or auto engine ecu) is unreadable and unwritable by any method tried.

[GT40-Steven]

Any news around this yet?

[dublee]

I was in cw performance in wexford a couple of weeks ago, Barry there took a copy of my rom and guarenteed me my(2000 manual vr4) ecu can be reflashed, he then went on to reflash my ecu with the original one he took off it.
He is going to look into creating a map, or whatever it is he has to do(i'm a newbie, dont know about the tecnical details at all), i'll keep you guys updated on the progress.

[Davezj]

i am not sure that proves anything.

what you would need to get him to do is read you ecu, change 1 perameter, write it back to ecu switch car off disconnect battery. reconnect battery and read ecu to see if the changed perameter is still changed.

if it has changed then that is a flashed ECU.

what i would expect to happen is when the ECU is read after battery reconnect then the original Factory Map will be back.

But i hope you are right and he can do it for you.

If you have an AUTO, just remember if you do disconnect the battery the A/T ecu will have to learn your gear shift points again and the auto box will feel like crap

[evonut270]

bit of an update there has been quite a bit of work on the current definition file for various tables and the file is now resembling something we can work with.however there is a problem with flashing the H8 processor at this point to which a solution has been found and is under testing.the updated files are available to look at on geekmapped.com

[evonut270]

i am not sure that proves anything.

what you would need to get him to do is read you ecu, change 1 perameter, write it back to ecu switch car off disconnect battery. reconnect battery and read ecu to see if the changed perameter is still changed.

if it has changed then that is a flashed ECU.

what i would expect to happen is when the ECU is read after battery reconnect then the original Factory Map will be back.

But i hope you are right and he can do it for you.

If you have an AUTO, just remember if you do disconnect the battery the A/T ecu will have to learn your gear shift points again and the auto box will feel like crapyou do not need to disconnect the battery after a reflash and even if you did the flashed map you put on it will still be there.

[AlanDITD]

i am not sure that proves anything.

what you would need to get him to do is read you ecu, change 1 perameter, write it back to ecu switch car off disconnect battery. reconnect battery and read ecu to see if the changed perameter is still changed.

if it has changed then that is a flashed ECU.

what i would expect to happen is when the ECU is read after battery reconnect then the original Factory Map will be back.

But i hope you are right and he can do it for you.

If you have an AUTO, just remember if you do disconnect the battery the A/T ecu will have to learn your gear shift points again and the auto box will feel like crap

This is all a bit new to me, but is that not impossible? are the VR4 ECU chips writeable or are all chips writeable? Im just going off what i know about honda tunning where the original Chip from the ECU i.e P72 has to be replaced in order to write to this anyway? The Original File from the P28/P72 can then be loaded to the Chip to act as a basemap before tunning?

Are there any ECU's that can be directly written to with no modification at all to the ECU, even if its just soldering a new chip in.

Sorry if this has very obvious answers

Cheers

[Turbo_Steve]

Alan...in Short, yes it's easily possible: if you know the magic words.
Honda insist on using old technology in their ECUs: fairly basic processors and extremely basic ROM packages. Nothing wrong with it, as it appears to work very well. Honda are generally quite traditional electrically and sometimes mechanically - why change something that works?


Most modern ECUs are more like modern mobile phones: the firmware is held in EEPROMS or "Electronically Erasable/Programmable Read Only Memories". These will allow themselves to be completely overwritten (usually only in a single sequential pass, so you HAVE to overwrite it's entire contents) with anything you like.....as long as you know the right commands to send to the processor to tell it to unlock it's memory.

Dependant on what you atually change, this may or may not require an ECU restart. Generally if you just change the data in the maps, and none of the program addresses or registers are affected, then the ECU will just pick up where it left off. If you start getting clever and changing the software, then it can be neccesary to disconnect and reconnect the battery: Car ECUs are never fully switched off, holding all sorts of parameters in volatile memory, as well as (in many cases) last known engine position etc. and in our case even gearbox behaviour (the gearbox is a feedback system, so it doesn't know how to change gear accurately until it's done it a few times! This masks any mechanical creepage in the box).

The issue seems to be that the older, M16 processor core either doesn't support (or isn't known to support) any of these commands, either by design or due to cost, or simply because we don't know enough about it yet. The H8 core (used in later Evos, Eclipses etc) has been beaten, so it's more a case of working out the kinks for our specifc ECU.

Unfortunately, most of us have metal boxed, old M16 cored ECUs, which means we might see plastic cased ECUs start commanding a premium soon!

[AlanDITD]

Ahh ok well that helps alot, Everything i have ever leanred about cars, has been based around hondas as thats all i have owned and modified pretty much.

Thanks and have some rep mate :D

[Turbo_Steve]

Thanks dude! I love Hondas..they're brilliant to drive...just wish they made them a bit more....serious?

[AlanDITD]

I agree completely, which is why i decided not to have another Im talking older hondas BTW. Although my "Fetish" the prelude i still think was about the most serious of them all. Great all round car, and suited to all ages and still holds up well compared to looks and performance of modern cars. Stick a private plate on a good nick lude and no one can pick it out as a 15 year old car.

But of late i wish they could go back a few years and remember the lack of seriousness so to speak, and produce some more fun rev happy cars, they seem to have moved away from that alot to attract a bigger market. But who can blame them at the end of the day there in buisness, and you need customers, and as many as possible to make money.

However, If i ever manage to get a promotion at work, damn im due one lol, then it will be buy buy legnum and hello NSX.

[scientist]

Doesn't work with 2001 ECUs

[Dom B]

I have a prefacelift 97 VR4 but i have the plastic ECU case. Do we know what number should be on the outside of the case to identify the flashable version?

[scientist]

Can you download the rom image? I wasn't able to get it to download the rom image from a 97 Preface lift manual