Young man in search of love...

[JayPee]

Hello one and all.

Not actually a Legnum owner as of yet, but it's on my list.

It all started last summer, when coming home from work, and pulling up at a roundabout. Just as I pulled up to a stop, I heard this sweet rumble over my stereo. I turned my head to see a dark coloured estate approaching from behind; so to speak...

It looked mean as funk, and it pulled into the lane next to me. I was so overwhelmed by it's prescence, I didn't notice that it was free for me to make a move, and was promptly notified by the driver behind.

I watched the car pull away, and took note of the name. I drooled over pictures of the car, but nothing more came about due to me thinking it was out of my price range, and insurance range!

After logging on to a car forum the other night, I saw a post which re-kindled my lost love for the legnum, and for the past 3 days I've thought of nothing, but "legnum."

I think the love bug has bitten, and I'm going to make it my 2009 plan, to save up as much as possible to see if I can finally afford a legnum and it's running costs at the tender age of 25.

So, After my long-winded introduction to my first taste of the Legnum, let me introduce myself. My name's Johnathan, I'm 25, and live just outside the town of Banbury, in Oxfordshire.

I currently drive a 1997 Vauxhall Vectra 2.5 V6, which I've owned since November 2006. It's covered 23000 miles in that time, and the only major problem it has had is the alternator dying. Otherwise, it's been standard running costs - Cambelt and full services, oil and filter changes, rose bushes, track rod ends, ARB bushes, brake discs & pads, tyres, etc, etc...

Between servicing costs, runnings costs, and the few minor upgrades it's had, I've spent about £2500 on it in that time.

So, I come as a bright-eyed, naive young man, to be led astray in the world of ClubVR4. Yes, I do like it "duuuurrrtttyyyy!" :pimp2:

So, I hope you won't mind my waffling on, whilst I fire questions left, right and centre, and possibly send you to the brink of a nervous breakdown, with my inquisitive nature.

[Nick Mann]

Feel free! If you fancy a good old look, then february 7th at Eurospec in Guildford would be an interesting day out for you.....

25 would not be the youngest on here by a long way. And phone Lifesure and Sky insurance for a quote - it may be better than you think. VR4s seem to be cheap to insure for what they are.

Reference your last but one paragraph - please don't look at my avatar! /pan

[aboo]

Welcome to the club

[bradc]

Are you after anything in particular? Colour, transmission, leather, etc?

[JayPee]

Thanks for the welcome guys.

Well, the Vectra is currently insured through Adrian Flux for the sum of £444.
That was with 3yrs NCB (4yrs this April), and 1 claim to my name, but that was over 3yrs ago now (3/1/05)
Parked on private driveway, in a class "A" postcode (lowest risk).

Could always add my sister to the policy to bring the price down (as I did in my first couple of yrs of insuring my cars).

Nick: Cheers, will note that date in the diary. Be nice to see some of the cars up close.

One question. Having only been driving for for a smidge under 5 years now, I'm used to driving manuals only.
So, are most of the Legnums the Tiptronic gearbox? What's it like to drive, and are the manuals uber rare?

Brad: Prefer the darker colours mostly, but silver or white quite take my fancy too!
Manual would be preferred, but I'm biased to manuals, so would gladly test drive an auto. Would prob prefer a cloth interior, as find the leather seats a bit slippy when getting a spurt on. ;)

[bradc]

Manuals are fairly rare. The tiptronics are good but they do tend to die a bit more than manuals. If you're concerned about money a manual will most likely cost more to buy, but have lower servicing costs as you don't need to change the oil as much and a full oil change for the oil is very expensive, plus if it dies you're looking at 1000 pounds or thereabouts to fix it.

You are right about the leather, in a VR-4 it is bloody annoying! At least you aren't too picky about the colours :)

[JayPee]

No - Think Red would be the only colour I wouldn't really want.

What's a good budget to set myself. I worked out that as long as nothing blows up in the Vectra, then I "could" have about £3000 by the end of the year tucked away, plus whatever I can get for my Vectra (Hopefully about £1000).

It'll take a while, but hopefully the wait will be worth it. Seen a few examples go for quite low money (£1500 to £1700), which seemed cheap, but obviously you sometimes get what you pay for, so I don't want to blow a load of wedge on a ****ter! :D

[elnevio]

Manuals are fairly rare. The tiptronics are good but they do tend to die a bit more than manuals.
That's because there're more autos around! /pan


If you're concerned about money a manual will most likely cost more to buy, but have lower servicing costs as you don't need to change the oil as much and a full oil change for the oil is very expensive, plus if it dies you're looking at 1000 pounds or thereabouts to fix it.
The auto will still go for ages though, properly maintained. And the ATF needs changing (according to the service schedule) only every 45,000 miles.

And /Welcome2! Nice to see a well-constructed first post! :thumbsup:

[JayPee]

Just need to find a tidy example then.

Had a quick look earlier and can't find it now, but found a link someone posted to a Japcar specialist with servicing costs/ periods on the legnum.

Might give Sky insurance a buzz tomorrow and find out what the insurance cost would likely be, as that'll be THE major deciding factor with being able to purchase the car.

Anyone around my age who can give examples of what they currently pay?

[miller]

The tiptronics are good but they do tend to die a bit more than manuals.

im getting tired of this comment from you Brad time and time again when a newbie pops up.

Yes we know you have a manual, or is the sound of your own trumpet just too good not to keep blowing :inquisiti :inquisiti :inquisiti :inquisiti

As explained again...tip's seem to make up 90% of the VR4's on the market. Obviously when one goes theres more of a chance we will hear about it on here


Welcome to CVR4 :speechles


Mike

[JayPee]

Cheers Miller.

Not very clued up on the Tiptronics gearbox. From readin up on it, it's basically an auto, but with an override feature?
So that means you can almost use it like a manual too?
Does the driver still use a clutch pedal like in a manual then?

[bradc]

It is like an auto with an override feature yes. You don't have a clutch pedal at all, you just get the option to push up or down on the transmission lever when you move it across to the manual gate.

As for the reliability, miller you can't seriously be saying that the tiptronic's are more reliable than the manuals? The manuals are used in EVO's up to 500/600hp and simply never ever break. When was the last time you heard of anyone with teeth stripping on a manual gearbox?

With auto's the gear selection solenoids pack up, the internal clutches wear away and burn out, the torque converter stops working, the torque converter seal always starts leaking and every so often the gears break too. Any of those problems result in a minimum of a 1000 pound repair bill.

I will accept that yes there are a lot more auto's in the club, but the manuals are virtually bullet proof, and the auto's simply aren't. JayPee mentions he may not have a huge amount of expendable money, so I think it is important to inform him of how likely they are to die. I would infact say that if you keep an auto VR-4 for 5 years or 50,000 miles you have about a 50/50 shot of the gearbox playing up at least once.

You also can't forget that the Manual gearbox needs 4 litres of oil every 45,000miles or so at 40 pounds whereas the Auto really does need changing every 15-20,000 miles and that change costs 120-150 pounds, plus you need to fit a trans cooler to it which is another 100-150 pounds.


HOWEVER, after saying all that, my history has been that I've bought 2 auto VR-4's, and I am looking at buying another one at the moment and will probably buy another auto VR-4 in a few weeks. I would hasten to add though that one of the VR-4's I bought did have a dead gearbox when I bought it. In New Zealand however there are millions of VR-4's about and it is always possible to buy another Auto gearbox from a wreck for about 100-200 pounds and just pop it in (and wait until it dies)

[Atik]

Welcome to CVR4.

A trip to the RR day in Feb would be really good if its the VR4 you are after. Should be plenty of different examples to drool over.

I bought my Legnum just after i turned 27, and am paying just over £700 for insurance with Sky. Location isnt very good though, so I'm well chuffed with my policy.

Tiptronic mode doesnt require the use of a clutch pedal. The tip cars are regular 5 speed auto cars, but you just slide the gear lever an inch to the left to engage manual tip mode. No clutch, just foot down and change gears when you hit the redline in each gear, the car does the rest. Manual mode is very fun too when you are at traffic lights ;)

Presonally, I'd have a tip over a proper manual, cos you get to tootle around all day with 260 horses under your right foot, without even moving your left!

[OnBoost!]

Welcome to the club..what's up with miller?

[justjon]

Welcome to the forum, i, like you have just signed up having just bought my very first vr4, and it puts a smile on my face everytime i drive it, the only car since my old RS1600i to do that, hope you find the car you are looking for and i wouldn't worry about the gearbox too much, it's just one of those things, if it dies, it dies, just have to take a deep breath and try to find the money from somewhere!
My box may be on it's last legs, will know more later!

[JayPee]

Thanks guys!

Spotted a White manual estate on Pistonheads this morning. Oh why don't I have the funds now?!?! Lol...

The potential gearbox problems are slightly worrying, especially considering the price of the bill!
However, the Vectra I own is not without it's fair share of possible problems, although like it sounds with the legnum's in NZ, there's thousands of vectras about over here, and parts are relatively cheap for those.
Seen the odd Legnum being broken on eBay and the like though, so it's something I'll have to mull over, and just keep the "Emergency car fund" topped up... :)

[ritch_w]

autos only give problems after years of neglect and abuse - usually from previous owners.
proper flushing of the ATF and quality oil such as AMSOIL and the autos, should be one of the 1st things you do after purchasing, if there is no evidence that is already been done!

try a Tip/auto 1st before dismissing it, I'd never had an auto before i drove a v6 sport, after 5 mins i was converted and have since owned 2 V6 autos and 2 VR4 autos.

whats your budget and have you checked out Kierans Legnum for sale? its minter than mint on a minty day during a peak mintyness season!

[nelly101]

autos only give problems after years of neglect and abuse - usually from previous owners.
proper flushing of the ATF and quality oil such as AMSOIL and the autos, should be one of the 1st things you do after purchasing, if there is no evidence that is already been done!

try a Tip/auto 1st before dismissing it, I'd never had an auto before i drove a v6 sport, after 5 mins i was converted and have since owned 2 V6 autos and 2 VR4 autos.

whats your budget and have you checked out Kierans Legnum for sale? its minter than mint on a minty day during a peak mintyness season!
i agree if you buy a car from one of the guys on the forum you know it has been looked after and serviced!!!

[JayPee]

autos only give problems after years of neglect and abuse - usually from previous owners.
proper flushing of the ATF and quality oil such as AMSOIL and the autos, should be one of the 1st things you do after purchasing, if there is no evidence that is already been done!

try a Tip/auto 1st before dismissing it, I'd never had an auto before i drove a v6 sport, after 5 mins i was converted and have since owned 2 V6 autos and 2 VR4 autos.

whats your budget and have you checked out Kierans Legnum for sale? its minter than mint on a minty day during a peak mintyness season!

Cheers Ritch. It's prob going to be a while before I own one, but I'd be hoping to have about £4k lined up ready for one.

Seen Keiran's car. Looks very nice, but no doubt will be long gone by the time I come to purchase one!

What's the suspension like on the legnums? On the Vectra, certains parts need replacing at a fairly rapid rate! Hopefully the legnum's not so bad?!

[Nick Mann]

TO be fair, I think Brads arguments are a little one sided.

I have had a couple of auto gearboxes break on me and I now have a manual. So in a short statement I am backing up Brads facts! However, when you look at it more closely:

The first breakage was an output shaft snapping. The same output shaft is used in the auto and manual and Evo gearboxes, so a little unfair to stick it into the auto gearbox failure category.
The second breakage was a cheap gearbox with issues that I never really expected to last long anyway. It lasted over two years.
I now have a manual gearbox that has never let me down. But, again, that's not the whole story. The input shaft bearing is noisy, si it will need work at some point. And the standard clutch can't cope with the torque my modified car is putting out. I'd get a fair few fluid changes on an auto box for the cost of a clutch that can cope with 370 lbft.

So basically, I agree with Brad - the manual box is probably a more reliable unit and sometimes cheaper to run. BUT a good, well maintained auto will be easier to drive, nearly as involving as the full manaul, gives reliable 0-60 times in almost every driving condition and if you launch regularly then replacing the clutch in the manual box could give you higher running costs that the auto.

There isn't much in it. I would certainly recommend taking an auto for a drive before setting your heart on a manual.

[pitslayer]

I personally find the problem with the tip boxes, is that they are quite boring to drive, personally rarely bother putting mine in tip anymore, if i want to go quicker, ill wait for the kickdown, they dont really like you changing down gears at speed either...I still long for a manual one, just want the feel that iam fully connected to the car.
most who love tip will now argue how good it is, and how some of the quickest VR4s are tip, mainly because there is so many of them.

insurance, last year when i had not long turned 20, was 1100 quid, 21 now, and waiting for my renewal, and thats in a cat a/b postcode, with 2 years ncd at the time

[Minter]

Hi & welcome to the forum.

I had a T-plate Vectra V6 facelift for a while. It was ok, a much better drive than the 2.0 SRI models but, I have to say the Mitsubishi V6 is a MUCH nicer engine!

[elnevio]

Well said Nick! Spot on!:thumbsup:

Brad - don't you have to go fettle a goat or something?! :P

[JayPee]

insurance, last year when i had not long turned 20, was 1100 quid, 21 now, and waiting for my renewal, and thats in a cat a/b postcode, with 2 years ncd at the time

Ouchies! That's a fair amount of wedge for insurance.

Have to wait till Monday now to get a quote from Sky.
Unfortunately they rang back whilst I was busy, and They're now closed! Nevermind.

[ANTHONY]

wellcome to the club, and as i'm also a manual box owner i tend to agree with some of what brad says. but then saying that i'v never driven a auto box in a vr4

[Axeboy]

Welcome.

Ive owned cars with both boxes.... i feel the tiptronic is better all round...

In my opinion... :)

[JayPee]

Feel free! If you fancy a good old look, then february 7th at Eurospec in Guildford would be an interesting day out for you.....


So am I ok just to turn up on this day, or do I need to pre-register or anything?
Obviously just coming down to say hello and drool over some motors (not literally!). :afro:

[elnevio]

So am I ok just to turn up on this day, or do I need to pre-register or anything?
Obviously just coming down to say hello and drool over some motors (not literally!). :afro:
You'd be fine to turn up, AFAIK. The only booking required is for rolling road time. Certainly useful to know if you are coming though! :thumbsup:

[pitslayer]

Ouchies! That's a fair amount of wedge for insurance.

Have to wait till Monday now to get a quote from Sky.
Unfortunately they rang back whilst I was busy, and They're now closed! Nevermind.
not really, group 20 car, 20 years old, 2 years ncd comapred to mate who pays 950 on a little polo

[JayPee]

Ouch. Don't think I even paid that much on my old Micra at that age, with 0NCB then too.

[justjon]

Insurance on mine is about £650, but that is parked on a driveway with (whats classed as) 9 years ncd as i had an accident just before xmas (god bless transits) up untill that point i had never had an accident in all my years and many, many miles of driving. quote before the crash on my car was only £380 but thats with 15 years ncd!

[JayPee]

Take it you're a tad older than me then Jon... :D

[justjon]

Take it you're a tad older than me then Jon... :D

I'm older than the ground you walk on my dear boy! :afro:

[JayPee]

That makes you at least 35 then... :D

[JayPee]

Well - £600 from Admiral is the best quote at present, although that was the cheapest quote from "comparethemarket.com"

So it looks like insurance wouldn't be so much of a problem now....

Just have to save the pennies! :D

[JayPee]

Quite liking the look of this one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2001-Y-MITSUBISHI-LEGNUM-GALANT-VR4-ESTATE_W0QQitemZ120344174575QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAut omobiles_UK?hash=item120344174575&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1301|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18

Or even this one:

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/778023.htm

[shaun1978]

well i'm paying 320 with sky , aged 30 and only a couple of years NCD left

[bradc]

Ooooh that facelift one is nice. Got the recaro seats too :D A very rare option.

[OnBoost!]

I only pay 284 pounds a year for full insurance..:D

[Nick Mann]

I agree with Brad - the first one looks like the one! (My garage gives away the reason for my opinion even better than my avatar!)

[justjon]

Quite liking the look of this one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2001-Y-MITSUBISHI-LEGNUM-GALANT-VR4-ESTATE_W0QQitemZ120344174575QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAut omobiles_UK?hash=item120344174575&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1301|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18

Or even this one:

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/778023.htm

The one at pistonheads is the one i was going to look at, untill mine cropped up, a little closer to home and a lot cheaper, looks like a gorgeous car, i would go for that one as it has a few less miles on it, but thats only my opinion.

[elnevio]

Liking the facelift one!

Price seems quite good, but I think you need to be seeing all the history - cambelt changes, oil changes (what has been used - especially in the transmission, where seeing the volume of atf used will tell you if the atf was fully flushed and changed) - because of the mileage. If the history is in order, then the mileage shouldn't be anything to worry about.

[justjon]

Nev..are you ever offline? or have the powers that be chained you to your computer desk to do their bidding? lol

[elnevio]

I AM an addict - although not likely to see me much today...

[HMG1K]

Yep, the eBay one is great! Been ther a few weeks now. I'm sure you could haggle down a tad on price if you are buying now - plus it says 'Galant' on the back, so one of the 200 'oficial' UK imports Mitsubishi brought into the country.

A good price for what was a £30k + car new!

Welcome along to the club!

[JayPee]

Looks tidy. Just wish I had the cash now! :(

Just a thought though. What's the tax like on these? Pre Feb 2001 cars are in the old bracket I know, but does this one fall in to the new bracket being a "Y" reg?

If so, what sort of cost is it?

[elnevio]

No tax worries, even for the Mar 2001-on cars - still taxed on engine size :thumbsup:

[JayPee]

No tax worries, even for the Mar 2001-on cars - still taxed on engine size :thumbsup:

How does that work then? Is it because they're imports?

[elnevio]

Mainly - and that they have no model report and no official CO2 figure. So yes, taxed at 1450cc+ rate!

[JayPee]

Wowo - same as the Vectra then, at £185 (Or £190 from April this year)!

[bradc]

Just don't question it too much, you DO NOT want the government finding out how much CO2 they actually make :)

The V6 is rated at 210 or something, I reckon a VR-4 would be close to 300!

[Nick Mann]

Yep. No official figures, so no ability to put them in the new system.

I guess that cars that do have an official figure are taxed in the new system, even if they are not UK from new. So an Evo from say 2003 will be expensive even if it spent a couple of years in Japan first?

[elnevio]

Yep. No official figures, so no ability to put them in the new system.

I guess that cars that do have an official figure are taxed in the new system, even if they are not UK from new. So an Evo from say 2003 will be expensive even if it spent a couple of years in Japan first?
I think you're right Nick, due to the availability of a model report, unlike the VR-4.

[bradc]

The guys on www.8er.org seem to be happy with their tax situation, they don't pay any more than VR-4 owners, even though an 850CSi is rated at 330 CO2's :)

[elnevio]

But they're all pre-March 2001, so still on the 1,450cc+ tax band. So yes, of course they're happy!

[vrfto]

/waffleOn

Auto boxes, love them or hate them, they always create a lot of conflict in car forums :D

I was always into manual transmissions, always swore I would never own a slush box.

Then along came my first FTO, brilliant is all I could say, parasitic loss was very similar to a manual FTO, a little less torque though.

Then along came my second FTO, 1997 Legnum twin turbo engine through a mostly standard GR FTO box, I was told the box would last about 6 months, 18 months later it is only the Diff that has died (almost), the box still shifts perfectly.

The FTO tip box was apparently designed by Porsche in 1994, and I would bet money on some of the same technology being in the Legnum/Galant box.

Most Mitsi tip boxes will fail because people abuse them, loading up the torque converter on a Legnum then launching hard with ~300 hp at the flywheel is a sure fire way to limit automatic gearbox life.

I have had my car on the drag strip, spins (or spun) the wheels from idle so no need to load it up, with no problems.

I did install a very cheap trans cooler not long after purchasing, which only cost me $45 and one hour labour to fit it in series with the standard cooler (about 35 pounds).

I tend to waffle too, but my point is this, there is nothing wrong with the Mitsubishi tiptronic boxes if well looked after. If you accept the fact that you can't drive them super hard and launch them as aggressively, there is no reason you can't have one last a long time and be enjoyable to boot (I found that backing off slightly when changing gear helped immensely, like in a manual).

Oh, and they are very forgiving for novice drivers, my first day ever on the drag strip netted me 4 13.8 second runs (standard exhaust/IC/intake).

I also like to be able to amble to/from work in rush hour traffic with a coffee in hand without having to worry about shifting/clutching/spilling coffee.

All in all, if you are going to be seeing some track time, you shouldn't really be getting a Legnum anyways, get a Galant (or Evo). If you will be doing what most people do, having a nice quick cruiser, I say get the slushie.

Oh, and before anyone says that auto's aren't quick (yes street cars with auto's are always a little slower, and it is at the lights that most people have a squirt of their cars), just remember that there is a reason that most of the quickest drag racers use auto boxes (I am talking about the big V8's and rotaries now).

/waffleOff

[bradc]

Yep, if you keep good oil in them and cool them well then they tend to be ok.

[Nick Mann]

All in all, if you are going to be seeing some track time, you shouldn't really be getting a Legnum anyways, get a Galant (or Evo).

I disagree with only this small part of your otherwise enjoyable waffle!

I like and sometimes need the load space of an estate. I can justify one silly all-rounder, I'm not sure I could justify an estate car AND a track day car.

So you'll find my Leggie on track occaisonally! :D

[HMG1K]

Just don't question it too much, you DO NOT want the government finding out how much CO2 they actually make :)

The V6 is rated at 210 or something, I reckon a VR-4 would be close to 300!

My V6 is rated at 226 or 229 - whatever one, it's a point or two ABOVE the lower tax threshold, so it gets clobbered under the new tax rules. /pan

Thankfully the higher tax brackets on Co2 have been put on hold by the government, and won't now show their face again until after the next election.

[justjon]

My V6 is rated at 226 or 229 - whatever one, it's a point or two ABOVE the lower tax threshold, so it gets clobbered under the new tax rules. /pan

Thankfully the higher tax brackets on Co2 have been put on hold by the government, and won't now show their face again until after the next election.

And when the new taxation laws come into place...if they ever do, i will be buying a daewoo matiz. My friend with his 330ci bmw will now be paying £400 per year as it's a 53 plate.
God bless 1997 as it seems like it was a very good year! :afro: