Manual Boost control on Fleabay

[ian_gelder]

Hi guys,

I am look to buy and fit a manual boost controller and was wondering if this would work:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/R-Spec-BOOST-CONTROLLER-PSI-GAUGE-KIT-ANY-TURBO-CAR_W0QQitemZ370139962749QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Car sParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item370139962749&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1299%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318

Do I need anything else or will this do the job? :thinking:

Thanks

[elnevio]

Yep, that'll do it!

It's a ball & spring controller, rather than just a dodgy bleed valve, which is good!

Get it in, wind up the boost, and get ready to smile a lot!! :D

[ian_gelder]

Excellent stuff, just bought it! Any advice on fitting it or just is it straight forward? I have seen this guide (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19501) by spirit which seems to cover everything.

Thanks for the help.

[elnevio]

You'll need this one for the boost controller itself:

Correct link (without T-piece): http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13967

Original link (with T-piece): http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19617

[MPBVr4]

i bought one a couple of weeks ago. Not fitted yet/pan . Seems to be reasonable quality and have done some bench test and seemsto control quite well with good repeatable settings

[Roberto]

Bought one and fitted a few months ago.

No installation issues.

Does what it says and you do notice the difference, just do the set-up in stages.
Don't go mad to fast.

[ian_gelder]

Cool, I should receive it tomorrow so need to find a nice empty road to test it on. I've heard 11 PSI is about right?

[CANDEE]

That depends on what your std boost is atm, mine is 11psi.. Most people up it to about 13-14psi as 15 psi can cause boost cut on some cars...

[Roberto]

I'm set to around 12, spiking to 14.

But I would fit the boost gauge first and note what your running at first.
For even as long as a week, just to sure, before fitting the manual gauge.

[ianturbo]

You'll need this one for the boost controller itself:

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19617
So ,is this why i get fuel cut at only 10/11 psi ??:thinking: better blank the T piece off then /pan
ian

[Roberto]

Well I fitted mine direct to the Red ringed rubber hose.

And have not had any fuel cut at all, fitted now for 3 months. Including JapFest Finale Drag racing, not been an issue.
And I cna feel the difference.
Asked the question at the time and the answer never mentioned a t-piece to be changed.

Do we have a difinitive answer.



Oh and I do hate when we get different answers to the same questions.



Or is the Dawes Device different to the Manual Boost contoller, if so can that link be removed to save any/more confusion.
Cause the type I have is a ball and spring.

[Turbo_Steve]

Right, few things to sort out here.
An MBC is a Mechanical boost controller, not a manual one. Manual boost control would be pinching a pipe or pressing a button everytime you got to target boost.
It's also the throttle pedal :)

So:
Yes, different types of MBCs work in different ways and have different profiles, and can be fitted differently.

For example, most are simply bleed valves, and as such alter the reaction time against any (factory) electronically controlled bleed. They are usually harder to tune, as spool slows as the actuators near their target boost, irrespective of bleed. They are also more prone to spiking, as the bleed profile varies with input pressure and temperature. This is because a bleed will reduce the 'quality' of the pressure signal reaching the wastegate, as opposed to changing it.

A ball and spring valve works differently, remaining resoloutely closed below a specific threshold, and bleeding above it. Should the signal pressure drop below target, it simply closes the wastegate. This means extremely responsive wastegate control, leading to very rapid spool and minimal creep as long as your wastegate is big enough, and the bleed rate (which is usually fixed) is rapid enough (but not too rapid).

There is also the issue of restrictors to consider: most factory setups have a pipe with a restrictor in it. This 'smooths' boost control on electronic systems, helping faster spool and stopping 'hunting' at target boost (where the electronics react so quickly that they actually continually reign in and let out the boost).

Finally, if you fit a device, it needs to be plumbed correctly. So a dawes device should go an a pressure send as close to the turbo outlet as possible, and be tee'd to both wastegates. A bleed valve, however, is usually better sited close to the throttle body and routed to the wastegates. It can also be used in conjunction with the factory boost solenoid to improve spool times.

Electronic systems are best if they feature a 3 port solenoid that can bleed back to a vacuum, though this is by no means neccesary on a normal integrated wastegate.

[Roberto]

Great write up and explanation Steve, thanks.


But where should the type ordered in the opening post be fitted?
If there is a difinitive answer that is.

[elnevio]

The Dawes Device is a ball and spring one, as is that one you've bought, so fitting should be the same.

[ianturbo]

The Dawes Device is a ball and spring one, as is that one you've bought, so fitting should be the same.
Thats the one i have just bought also ,do i need to block the T piece off then ?:inquisiti
ian

[elnevio]

Thats the one i have just bought also ,do i need to block the T piece off then ?:inquisiti
ian
Which T are you on about?

That controller just goes inline in the indicated pipe - a simple process of a) cut pipe; b) insert boost controller (right way round of course), and that's it. You have boost control!

The only T you'll need is to T into the boost source pipe for the boost gauge! Sorted! :thumbsup:

[shaun1978]

same as roberto says, first off I would fit a gauge as otherwise your just peeing in the wind if you want to set it to a specific boost, also helps set it up so much faster.

[ianturbo]

You'll need this one for the boost controller itself:

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19617
This T piece , i have tried two differant boost controlers and get bad fuel cut at 80/85 mph thought it was the boost controler so got a dawes one and fit it on saturday turned it up to 10/ psi and 80 in 3rd fuel cut so turned it right down to standard about 8 psi not a hint of fuel cut !!
ian

[elnevio]

This T piece , i have tried two differant boost controlers and get bad fuel cut at 80/85 mph thought it was the boost controler so got a dawes one and fit it on saturday turned it up to 10/ psi and 80 in 3rd fuel cut so turned it right down to standard about 8 psi not a hint of fuel cut !!
ian
Ah, ok. My bad! /dunce

This is the right link! http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13967

And is exactly how I installed mine...

[Roberto]

Cheers Lads,

Just making sure there is no confusion.:afro:

[CJay]

I've fitted the R-spec MBC and it works fine, you don't need any other piece of kit apart from the MBC itself (and 2 cable ties).

I originally has it set at 12psi but have recently turned it down to 10psi due to fuel cut (problem solved).

As per the other responses, fit a boost gauge first and foremost and get used to the stock boost pattern. Fit the MBC fully closed and find a clear section of road where you can pull in and out of. Gradually (2 turns at a time) turn it up until you reach the desired boost level (12psi is a good mark to aim for). A half an hour of spirited driving should see you good in terms of getting the boost level right.

CJ

[aboo]

I've fitted the R-spec MBC and it works fine, you don't need any other piece of kit apart from the MBC itself (and 2 cable ties).

I originally has it set at 12psi but have recently turned it down to 10psi due to fuel cut (problem solved).

As per the other responses, fit a boost gauge first and foremost and get used to the stock boost pattern. Fit the MBC fully open and find a clear section of road where you can pull in and out of. Gradually (2 turns at a time) turn it down until you reach the desired boost level (12psi is a good mark to aim for). A half an hour of spirited driving should see you good in terms of getting the boost level right.

CJ
Should'nt it be fully closed then open it?

[CJay]

Should'nt it be fully closed then open it?

Actually, I think you're right - post amended.

CJ

[Roberto]

Again confusion reigns....

I would have said that it was installed Fully Open and then turned down 1/4 turn at a time and slowely set up that way, checking the boost each time.

Gone to find paperwork that came with MBC.

Found it!!!

I Quote: " To adjust the "R-Spec" valve, slcken the lock nut, then turn the knurled adjustment screw clockwise to increase boost and anti-clockwise to decrease boost. This should be done in small increments (1/4 turn) until the desired boost is achieved" End Quote!


Clockwise is tightening it, Righty Tighty Lefty Loosy!
This for the R-Spec boost Controller, that I have fitted.

[Roberto]

It is very important to install and set-up any mods correctly.

If you are not sure, ask the wuestions untill you are sure.
If still unsure get someone who is to do it!

[Kenneth]

If you are getting fuel cut below 14psi of boost

a) Check you don't have a pod filter
b) Check your plugs, you could be getting misfire rather than fuel cut.

[Subaru ETA]

at the dyno day i reached 15.7 psi using a turbosmart MBC and didnt get boost cut. I have seen my gauge get around the 17psi mark on a cold night.

as ken said, if you have a pod filter its going to act retarded. we saw on our recent dyno day one member had a Pod filter, custom pipe work etc and i think he only got in the 160kw ball park. my car with std intake system (bar a k&n panel filter) plus 3inch exhaust headers back got in the 180kw's

[ianturbo]

If you are getting fuel cut below 14psi of boost

a) Check you don't have a pod filter
b) Check your plugs, you could be getting misfire rather than fuel cut.
no pod filter and new ish plugs ....... better have a look at the gap !!!below 10 its ok anything above . not good
ian

[Kenneth]

What brand plugs you got in the car? Am working on a theory that Denso are crap in the VR-4s :P

[ianturbo]

they werent denso ???
iridium things spring to mind ! back ones were flat at a witches tit but front ones were new !! lazy tw#@ts !:thinking:
aint sure what i gapt them at though !:thinking:
ian

[Kenneth]

What is your fuel economy like?

Could be a boost leak that only shows up above 10psi.

[ianturbo]

It ain't good but it never has been , i just fill up when empty :happy: ,
all clips on the pipes seem to be tight ,could the bov be a bit knackered ? its the plastic one , i have never bothered with it since i got car 18 months or so ago ??:thinking: :thinking:
ian

[elnevio]

Could be.

Have a hunt around on MLR for an EVO VIII plastic one. They're always swapping theirs off for better (well, noisier!) items. They're a direct swap for our BOVs and should be able to get one for about a tenner. I did, although my original was apparently working perfectly.

[Wodjno]

So ,is this why i get fuel cut at only 10/11 psi ??:thinking: better blank the T piece off then /pan
ian
10/11psi but at what RPM ?

Is that at low revs, Hi Load ? Upto 4500-4750rpm at WOT ?

If so.. Thats fairly normal.. I used to get the same on Manual Controller.. I got round it by only giving upto 70% throttle until past 4750 RPM..

Also these damp cold conditions will see fuel cut more apparent /yes

[ianturbo]

around 3500/4500 , usually in 3rd , and only if i am givin it a bit /rally ,if i am gentle on the throttle it don't seem to do it ,
I'll have a look for anothe bov , don't want a woosh thing so standard one or evo 8 one .
thanx
ian

[aboo]

Fitted my boost gauge on Tuesday & its been sitting at 9psi on full throttle & 30 vacum since so going to fit mbc this weekend looking forward to noticing some diffrence

[ian_gelder]

Hi guys,

Glad the sites back up and running because I've been trying to fit the MBC and the gauge. I've got the tube running to the dash and to the engine bay, it's just that I'm not quite sure where to fit the T-Piece. Also could you make sure I've put the MBC in the right place? /help

I've uploaded a picture for you to mock :happy:

http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mbcra8.jpg

Is this the right way round and where should I put the T-Piece?

Thanks for your help

[MPBVr4]

Installation looks OK. Pressure source to bottom of the controller.
Take your gauge tapping from the back of the inlet plenum.
Pic courtesy of Brenmc's excellent article. (Yours will go to the gauge not a pressure transducer)

[aboo]

I just fitted my mbc & its fully open hitting 20psi so its of again. No more threads on the screw.

Doing 3rd gear runs full throttle hits 20psi then fuel cut. jumps in to 4th & drops to 18psi.

Anyone had this prob?

[miller]

I just fitted my mbc & its fully open hitting 20psi so its of again. No more threads on the screw.

Doing 3rd gear runs full throttle hits 20psi then fuel cut. jumps in to 4th & drops to 18psi.

Anyone had this prob?

Yeah my MBC has run out of threads, cannot reduce anymore. sitting now at 12psi but spiking to 15psi which is producing CUT or wasted spark at 4.5k rpm.

[MPBVr4]

Tis' a bit strange I've bench tested the R spec one and the "release" pressure can be varied down to about 4 psig with threads to go. When I unscrewed to the limit the ball just floated about and didn't hold any pressure at all.:inquisiti

[aboo]

The mbc I installed is the one off ebay & looks the same as the one at the start of this thread.
Could it be a faulty mbc?

[MPBVr4]

Wouldn't think so. There is nothing to go wrong. There is only a spring with ball inside. Just make sure you've connected the pressure source from the inlet to the connector opposite and in line with the adjuster screw. The right angle connection goes to the wastegates.

You can check the ball isn't stuck by unscrewing the adjuster the ball and spring will fall out if it's OK. Don't lose them!

[aboo]

so the right angle should be pointing to the bottom of the engine?

If it was on the wrong way round would'nt I not get a reading

[aboo]

Got it.
It was on the wrong way round (dafty) but still a bit high sitting at 16psi & cant reduse it any more. still getting fuel cut but not as bad.

Dont know if I'll leave it on cause I dont want to do any damage.

[tolcol]

Got it.
It was on the wrong way round (dafty) but still a bit high sitting at 16psi & cant reduse it any more. still getting fuel cut but not as bad.

Dont know if I'll leave it on cause I dont want to do any damage.

I had the same problem when i installed my MBC, there weren't enough threads on the thing!
I was hitting 15psi and fuel cut immediately with the screw on the last thread.
I just took out the spring and cut one rung off, flattened the cut piece to try to maintain the straightness and to stop it from catching in the threads, then started again with my adjustments.
10 minutes later i was running 12.5psi with spikes to about 14 or 15psi.
No fuel cut just lots of fun! :)
I don't know if this is an accepted fix but it worked for me.

[madmac]

I was thinking about fitting a Dawes device to my recently purchased Legnum. It already has a boost guage showing 0.7bar at full boost. What's the general consensus with increasing the boost? Will the standard map be able to cope with going up to 0.9bar? What boost would I expect fuel cut at?

Any info appreciated

[MPBVr4]

Yep 0.9 Bar is the accepted max safe boost on a VR4 without incurring the wrath
of fuel cut.

[bigoxo]

What's the general consensus on disconnecting the battery for a few mins to let the car start 'learning' again after this mod?

Also, i presume the 'red clip' is the boost source end and the wastegate actuator is at the other end.