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pitslayer
13-02-2009, 08:15 PM
Yes I know its been covered several times, use AMsoil ATF or mitsis own SPIII. But I will be booking my car into local Jap specialist for a good once over before mot next month, bushses etc and a good check over the engine. So I might aswell get the gearbox oil and diff changed there,

Now has anyone had any experience with Millers motorsport oils, cant say I have heard or read much about them before, and dont want to be putting it in if its known to be cack, otherwise ill supply the oil and get them to use that. Just its convinient might be cheaper than the other 2, and might work

Kieran
13-02-2009, 08:20 PM
Millers oil is fine IMHO. Generally well regarded and certainly I read enough 'Good' that before I discovered Amsoil I used it in my V6 and my VR4 (XSS and XFS respectively) and I'm thinking that I'll use Millers again in my Honda unless I find another decent 'Mid range' oil.

Only snag as far as you're concerned Kyle is that they don't do an SP-III compatible ATF.

pitslayer
13-02-2009, 08:24 PM
Here is what I have found on them, which shows as you said, they dont do an SPIII ATF, so I am guessing that is a no for using it in the autobox, but what about the rear diff?

Millermatic UN ATF

DESCRIPTION:
An automatic transmission and power steering fluid.

APPLICATION:
For use in automatic transmission and power steering systems as recommended by the vehicle manufacturer.

USER BENEFITS:
• Will provide a high performance in accordance with vehicle manufacturer requirements.
• Very high resistance to oxidation and degradation in use and so suitable for use where very long service intervals are required.
• Ensures a smooth transmission of power.

PERFORMANCE PROFILE:
Suitable for use where the following specifications are called for by the vehicle manufacturer:-

• GM Dexron IID
• Ford M2C 138CJ, M2C 166H
• Mercedes Benz 236.2 (Except for GL76, 30-5 & GL275E gearboxes)
• Mercedes Benz 236.4, 236.6, 236.7

SAE Viscosity Grade ... n/a
Specific Gravity @ 15°C ... 0.866
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C ... 7.5cSt
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C ... 38.9cSt
Viscosity Index ... 164
Pour Point °C ... -42
Flashpoint °C ... 210
Cold Crank Viscosity ... n/a
Brookfield Viscosity @ -40°C ... 34,000cP
Colour ... Red

bradc
13-02-2009, 10:15 PM
Why ohh why do people feel that it is their duty at least once a month to suggest a different brand of ATF that does not work with our cars, or mention conforming to the SP3 standard when we already have two perfectly fine options available to us in Amsoil ATF and Mitsi SP3.

pitslayer
13-02-2009, 10:27 PM
I dont remember suggesting it.....nope, cant see where I said "hey everybody lets use miller motorsport oils" merely asked wether it can be used, as I had not heard much about them. Either way I probably wont be putting Amsoil in, it will be mitsi`s SP3

elnevio
13-02-2009, 10:34 PM
Amsoil is better!

Lots more detergents, and a higher operating temperature range.

All IMHO, of course... (when I'm not mis-quoting Amsoil Don anyway!! :P)

pitslayer
13-02-2009, 11:11 PM
I just cant warrant the extra price for it being a bit better. Not only that, I could wait at home to get the oil delivered or I could have a blast down an awesome country lane flat out to the nearest mitsi dealership /lol

TAR
13-02-2009, 11:17 PM
Just ban me....ban me now!

:happy:

Subaru ETA
17-02-2009, 11:06 PM
Why ohh why do people feel that it is their duty at least once a month to suggest a different brand of ATF that does not work with our cars, or mention conforming to the SP3 standard when we already have two perfectly fine options available to us in Amsoil ATF and Mitsi SP3.

because every body doesnt have a money tree growing in there back yard... :thinking:

if there was a cheaper alternative that worked just as fine as amsoil supposedly does id say alot of people would use it! i mean, i cannot justify using an engine oil that costs 3 times what i can get castrol oil for and when i did use the oil reccomended by everbody else it was the first time my car ever started making tappet noise!

Pits - so is millers the only oil this shop uses? I would have to agree and get the SPIII stuff for the trans but surely they would have something suitable for the diff?

pitslayer
17-02-2009, 11:56 PM
I would rather run what is recomended for the car in the boxes, engine oil im not to fussed about

CARMEL120
18-02-2009, 08:49 AM
what about this one
http://www.lucasoil.co.uk/products.php?page=products&subpage=product&product=20

elnevio
18-02-2009, 09:02 AM
The clue with that one, is that it is a semi-synthetic, not fully-synthetic. Plus doesn't state that it meets or exceeds Mitsi's SP-III specifications. If you're in the UK, use Mitsi's own SP-III, which is good, or Amsoil's ATF, which is better.

Kieran
18-02-2009, 09:11 AM
what about this one
http://www.lucasoil.co.uk/products.php?page=products&subpage=product&product=20

Looking at the Data sheet on the parent site, it's a Dexron III oil only.

http://www.lucasoil.com/images/medialibrary/semi_synthetic_atf.pdf

Have to say I agree with SubaruETA's comments - There's nothing wrong with looking for an alternative to Mitsy or Amsoil ATF, as long as it meets the SP-II specification.

CARMEL120
18-02-2009, 09:39 AM
can we use lubegard hfm a long with the lucas then

Kieran
18-02-2009, 06:51 PM
can we use lubegard hfm a long with the lucas then

Well you could I suppose, however having attempted that the 1st time I changed my ATF I still found the shift quality unsatisfactory. In all honesty it was a bottle of HFM plus 10 litres of Dex-III down the bog as I soon changed to Amsoil. BernMC also tried it in his car - I think he 'overdosed' the fluid with the additive and it made his gearbox slip. So be careful.

miller
18-02-2009, 07:21 PM
As Tim has reminded me, Nev can you ban me for ten days before i reply to this post

alendil
18-02-2009, 08:30 PM
writh that oil is made in usa i bet You can get that in uk
and i think this is spIII ( look on pictures)
http://aukcja.onet.pl/show_item.php?item=559607775
sorry web is in polish
what you think any good


just found this one its veary expensive oil in poland i think its good
and they do spIII mitsi

look for qakerstate Multi Vehicle ATF D III

below its descripition i found on polish webside


Multi Vehicle ATF D III: Wysokiej jakości uniwersalny olej do automatycznych skrzyń biegów Typ A lub Typ A A, Dexron, Dexron II, Dexron IIE, Dexron III(H), Mercon, Mercon V, Caterpillar TO-2, Allison C4, Chrysler ATF +3, ATF +4, Toyota T, T-III, T-IV, Nissan Matic-D i Matic-J, Honda ATF-Z1, Mitsubishi Diamond SP-II/SP-III

pitslayer
18-02-2009, 09:23 PM
Well, I will have to check, but there seems to be little point putting any oil in...as there is a little puddle of oil on my drive, hoping its not from mine, but my car is always parked so that is

alendil
18-02-2009, 10:12 PM
hmmm TC seal

miller
18-02-2009, 11:03 PM
or turbo's

Nutter_John
19-02-2009, 12:07 AM
could be the internal filter in the anti sludge thing leaking

pitslayer
19-02-2009, 01:59 AM
well I parked it, where the isnt any oil, see in the morning I suppose case doesnt seem to have much on oil on it, so im hoping it is the van...

So I have read on here, that Dexron is bad, and it is SP3 or Amsoil ATF, Kieran mentions that you can use anything aslong as it meets mitsi SP2 qaulity standards, does SP2 harm the box, or is the shifting less smooth

Well its a trip out to get some SP3 on a nice road anyways

Kieran
19-02-2009, 09:27 AM
So I have read on here, that Dexron is bad, and it is SP3 or Amsoil ATF, Kieran mentions that you can use anything aslong as it meets mitsi SP2 qaulity standards, does SP2 harm the box, or is the shifting less smooth

SP-II was the original specification for the ATF in our cars. It's just that it was superceded a few years back by SP-III.

Beastlee
19-02-2009, 12:19 PM
Just to add to the boiling pot, I can get Dexron VI for peanuts ($7/litre) here, is it suitable at all? Not that I need to change mine yet but handy to know for emergencies.
I found that Don is selling the Amsoil ATF at less than I would pay for Mitsi SPIII stuff here so that is a no brainer but the Dexron VI is Castrol and half the price again which, if it's compatible, means I don't need to ship it out from the UK either.

On the Miller's side I always found it very good and used the Fully Synthetic version in our 405 Mi-16, Golf Gti 16V MkII and the SAAB 9000 Aero. I also found out that the Quantum stuff mande by VW but also sold by German and Swedish is a fabulous quality oil. The fully synthetic version is very good value for money and is OEM for VW/Audi/Skoda engines.

miller
19-02-2009, 12:33 PM
Over on the delica forums they state that Chrysler use Mitsi boxes and specify Mopar ATF4

Also as Hyundai took over many of mitsi plans i believe you can get their equivalent of SPIII for £5.50 a litre



http://www.mdocuk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21299&start=0&sid=ffe765da638a00052eb74269f0bd5a2a

pitslayer
19-02-2009, 01:38 PM
Over on the delica forums they state that Chrysler use Mitsi boxes and specify Mopar ATF4

Also as Hyundai took over many of mitsi plans i believe you can get their equivalent of SPIII for £5.50 a litre



http://www.mdocuk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21299&start=0&sid=ffe765da638a00052eb74269f0bd5a2a
Thats quite interesting, might try that hyundai stuff, it is an SP3, and if it is diaqueen just relabelled then might be worth a shot.

Beastlee
19-02-2009, 02:49 PM
Good spot Mike, perhaps a bargain in the making!

pitslayer
19-02-2009, 04:04 PM
Well I found the local hyundai dealer, and Im down that way on saturday, so will pop in and get some, worth a try

alendil
20-02-2009, 04:27 PM
hi i call hyundai service and yes spIII atf is awalible 21,50 gbp per 2,5l pack

its working on abaut 8,40 per liter its good price
i am going to call chraysler service and check price there

alendil
22-02-2009, 01:17 AM
there is exelent news hyundai is seling sp III for 4,50 gbp per liter
i just bough 5 liters and i am going to instal it tommorow

pitslayer
22-02-2009, 12:03 PM
let us know how it goes, need to get the amsoil out of mine asap, changes are doing my head in.

Problem I have found with amsoil,, whilst it last a long time, it doesnt detoriate, it just dies instantly with no warning, so you go for nice changes oneday, next day, its clunking into gear or not even changing gear, or the dash has shown its gone into 5th gear, then you feel it jolt into 5th gear

Kieran
22-02-2009, 01:46 PM
let us know how it goes, need to get the amsoil out of mine asap, changes are doing my head in.

Problem I have found with amsoil,, whilst it last a long time, it doesnt detoriate, it just dies instantly with no warning, so you go for nice changes oneday, next day, its clunking into gear or not even changing gear, or the dash has shown its gone into 5th gear, then you feel it jolt into 5th gear

I see you're back to your usual habit of moving the goalposts halfway along the thread and not letting fact get in the way of your opinion... /wall

elnevio
22-02-2009, 02:07 PM
Problem I have found with amsoil,, whilst it last a long time, it doesnt detoriate, it just dies instantly with no warning
:huh2: Are you being serious?

Hopefully not, but if you are, perhaps you have some empirical evidence to share with us, such as some oil analysis, maybe? If the oil can turn bad that quickly (i.e. 'instantly'), then we need to know, because this could be a safety issue!

Nutter_John
22-02-2009, 02:19 PM
good point Nev , I bet everyone on the forum would like to see the evidence as well .

Can I suggest that you lock this thread Nev so that if no evidence can be provided it can then be used in court by AMSoil for the libelous statement that Kyle made

miller
22-02-2009, 02:19 PM
because this could be a safety issue!

there will be another safety issue in a minute if you dont ban me immediatley Nev :inquisiti

Beastlee
22-02-2009, 03:03 PM
Mike.....wooosah woosah

bradc
22-02-2009, 07:19 PM
lol, PMSL at Nev. You should know by now to not take Kyle seriously, even if he appears to be posting seriously. He just likes the attention.

alendil
22-02-2009, 09:13 PM
Whats wrong with him ??????
Any way i hawe put in 6 liters of hyundai ATF SP III today and new atf filter ( bas....d to change ) ecu reset car is changing gears more smmoth and trans its like bit quieter every think works just beter on fresh oil

Beastlee
22-02-2009, 09:18 PM
Will hunt down a Hyundai garage here and compare the price...Mitsi charged me 18.95€ + 19% tax for a litre

pitslayer
22-02-2009, 10:36 PM
The amsoil is good stuff and has lasted really long and worked really well, and hasnt had any bad shifting. However in the past week its gone from changing really nicely to clunking through the gears.

Its been really good in the box, and over the few thousand miles hasnt detoriated in its changes what so ever, infact its been silky smooth, not noticed as its gone through the thousands of miles of the gearbox changes getting sluggish, or jolting through the gears.

But now it seems to have, had it as its the gearchanges are horrible. its done like 13k miles or so its done pretty good, but past week, it has been hanging in gears, or not changing gears, its just not smooth anymore

:)

peter thomson
22-02-2009, 10:42 PM
There are a lot more things Kyle that can cause a box to do what you describe. You just hav to think about the amount of electronics and hydraulic components there are in our boxes.
The oil is only one part remember any of these will cause your issues

pitslayer
22-02-2009, 10:50 PM
yes, but I know how long that oil has been in there, and when it was last changed it is well over due a service :)

Kieran
22-02-2009, 10:55 PM
yes, but I know how long that oil has been in there, and when it was last changed it is well over due a service :)

How long has the fluid been in, and how many miles has the car done since it was changed?

What is the condition of the fluid?

peter thomson
22-02-2009, 10:56 PM
The point is Kyle that you can't assume it's the oil

Nutter_John
22-02-2009, 11:07 PM
Sorry but Kyle can assume anything and everything




Just like if we could assume that Kyle was a complete idiot beyond redemption

alendil
22-02-2009, 11:21 PM
hi again just back from longer trip araund 40 miles ang gearbox is smooth and nice i think it was good idea to go to hyundai and save me circa 40 gbp
i will keap you updatet if anythink will change

elnevio
22-02-2009, 11:46 PM
hi again just back from longer trip araund 40 miles ang gearbox is smooth and nice i think it was good idea to go to hyundai and save me circa 40 gbp
i will keap you updatet if anythink will change
Did you only drain and refill the ATF? Sounds like it if you only used 5 or 6 litres.

You need to do the full flush and change (about 10-12 litres) to get all the old fluid out of the gearbox (which needs you to disconnect the ATF pipes and run the engine), so what you will now have is a mix of old and new fluid.

Having said that, you should be alright for a while. :)

bradc
23-02-2009, 05:15 AM
But Kyle, have you actually changed the oil yet? It may not be the amsoils fault at all, your oil might be fine, but the gearbox might be fuxxed, or you might have lost half of your oil through a torque converter seal or a hole in the piping or something.


Alendil - as said above you need to use about 12 litres to do it properly.

alendil
23-02-2009, 09:17 AM
i am going to do full change but money are schort ( must print more)
it was just to start and check this hyundai stuff

pitslayer
23-02-2009, 12:56 PM
Don had the oil changed 2k miles IIRC before I bought I have since done about 13-14kmiles in it. So its done about 16k miles,
T/C seal isnt leaking its been parked in garage with clean floor, and still have clean floor.
Not saying its Amsoils, fault or infact I havnt even blamed the oil for f*ck all, you have all assumed that I have go on an anti amsoil amsoil ruined my gearbox for some reason or other.

All I am saying is the oil has been in there for 16k miles odd, its done very well, but it has got to the point where I know its probably buggered, its had alot of hard use and abuse, its done very well, I just think I have worn it out

ritch_w
23-02-2009, 01:48 PM
amsoil should last longer than 16K so doubt thats your prob.

Mitsi schedule is every 36K IIRC and thats just a sump dump

elnevio
23-02-2009, 02:05 PM
Let's have a look at some facts:

- The ATF is scheduled for change every 45,000 miles.

- Amsoil should last longer than SPIII (on which the service schedule is based) under harsh conditions due to its higher operating temperature range.

If, and only if, the ATF *IS* fubared, then that must almost certainly be pointing towards a more serious problem, such as massively prolonged overheating of the ATF, caused by something else.


Not saying its Amsoils, fault or infact I havnt even blamed the oil for f*ck all
Really? Then perhaps you can explain the alternative meaning to this element of your post at #31, which I have missed:


need to get the amsoil out of mine asap, changes are doing my head in.

Problem I have found with amsoil,, whilst it last a long time, it doesnt detoriate, it just dies instantly with no warning
Further, have you even bothered to:

a) check the ATF level;
b) check the condition of the ATF;
c) check the colour of the ATF?

The above is good advice given to you by knowledgeable members.

Please please listen to advice given, or give reasons why you've ignored it. Alternatively don't ask for it in the first place, and stick to taking to your own opinion as fact.

amsoil
23-02-2009, 02:23 PM
Given that there is no better ATF available, that you are unlikely to have the power from a VR4 (as in ever no matter what you do) to even slightly worry this fluid. That you havent done anything even approaching the mileage to have worried the fluid etc etc. May I respectfully suggest that the problem may be something else in the auto box department. I have never had anyone in the UK who has managed to 'break' this ATF in any way shape or form. If the ATF is still red then its fine.

pitslayer
23-02-2009, 02:47 PM
Break the ATF...sounds like a challenge /lol

Don the oil is great stuff, Im not saying its bad, just from most symptoms the autoboxes I have driven go from great changes to getting worse and worse as the cheap sh*t oil wears out, Where as the Amsoil has been great through 16k odd miles of changes without any signs of wear. Just this past week it has been showing signs of what I believe to be oil wear in the box, if its nowhere near its life expectency then i wont bother changing it

Ill check to see if its red later

TAR
23-02-2009, 03:04 PM
Break the ATF...sounds like a challenge /lol

Don the oil is great stuff, Im not saying its bad, just from most symptoms the autoboxes I have driven go from great changes to getting worse and worse as the cheap sh*t oil wears out, Where as the Amsoil has been great through 16k odd miles of changes without any signs of wear. Just this past week it has been showing signs of what I believe to be oil wear in the box, if its nowhere near its life expectency then i wont bother changing it

Ill check to see if its red later

There is just nothing more that anyone could add to this post :speechles

:happy:

miller
23-02-2009, 03:30 PM
Just this past week it has been showing signs of what I believe to be oil wear in the box,

Have you changed your beliefs recently then? you always used to believe your Turbos were shot /pan /pan so now are we gonna suffer mutliple threads of i think my gear box is fubarred

Get on with it and get some hands on diagnosis, not heads on diagnosis /pan

Kieran
23-02-2009, 10:03 PM
The wall is still standing, but I believe my head hurts slightly less........ /wall :rolleyes3

bradc
24-02-2009, 07:22 AM
Stretches out, folds arms and waits for:

Pitslayer: I changed my oil in my stupid gearbox and now the car isn't any better, this amsoil has killed my gearbox and I need to fix it now

alendil
24-02-2009, 08:44 AM
hy hy hy hy

GalantOnly
13-05-2009, 07:05 PM
Just bought 20L SP-III from Mitsis... Got a BP oil, marked with Hyuindai, Mitsubishi and Subaru... So Subaru could apparently also be ATF supplier for our cars as hyundai...

AlanDITD
13-05-2009, 07:17 PM
Guys quick tip i found out.

If you buy hyundai SP3 as i do and a few others, buy it in Litre bottles rather than 4L bottles.

I bought a 4L bottle at 18.43 inc vat thats 4.60 per liter

Then i bought 10L in 1L bottes for 31.80inc vat, thats 3.18 per litre

:D

vr4-fan
21-05-2009, 05:44 PM
I put AMSOIL in me gearbox , and now I feel the car more fast , and the mileage its better , :) :) :)


I RECOMEND AMSOIL ATF

elnevio
21-05-2009, 08:04 PM
I put AMSOIL in me gearbox , and now I feel the car more fast , and the mileage its better , :) :) :)


I RECOMEND AMSOIL ATF
Hooray!! :thumbsup: :bananadan

vr4-fan
23-05-2009, 10:52 PM
Given that there is no better ATF available, that you are unlikely to have the power from a VR4 (as in ever no matter what you do) to even slightly worry this fluid. That you havent done anything even approaching the mileage to have worried the fluid etc etc. May I respectfully suggest that the problem may be something else in the auto box department. I have never had anyone in the UK who has managed to 'break' this ATF in any way shape or form. If the ATF is still red then its fine.


my AFT fluid was BROWN , when I decided to change , and now I put 6 quarts of amsoil , and its perfect , and I feel the car with more power , and give me more MPG

bradc
23-05-2009, 11:41 PM
facepalm

vr4-fan
24-05-2009, 04:46 AM
facepalm



???? what it that???

Subaru ETA
24-05-2009, 05:32 AM
facepalm

LOL!

elnevio
24-05-2009, 08:40 AM
my AFT fluid was BROWN , when I decided to change , and now I put 6 quarts of amsoil , and its perfect , and I feel the car with more power , and give me more MPG
This will have definitely helped, but six quarts seems like you have only changed about half of the ATF (i.e. only the ATF in the gearbox sump). There will still have been another 5/6 quarts in the gearbox itself, which is why the whole gearbox needs flushing when you change the ATF.

It certainly sounds like the ATF was completely destroyed though, as it was brown, so you'll just have a mix of new and old ATF now.

Well, an improvement is better than no improvement, I guess, but I would now be flushing it all out and putting in a complete new batch of Amsoil.