Paddle-shift gear change

[haydar]

After rewiring the tiptronic gear lever so that it changes down when pushed forward and changes up when pulled back, it got me thinking that it must be possible to create an F1 paddle-shift type system for the VR4.

Anyway, armed with soldering iron and various tools, I got to work and now have a working proto-type. It looks a bit crude at the moment but it works perfectly.

I have been using it for about a day and it's not just a gimmick, it really is good fun. Changing gears can be done with a finger tip and it's especially fast when one wants to change down 2 or 3 gears in one go.

Aesthetically it needs improvement, but now that I know the principle works and is fun I can invest more time in this. I'll take a brief video of it tomorrow in action and post it to the forum but for now I attached a couple of pictures.

Give me your feedback.

Also, if anyone knows where I can get authentic paddle shift levers, I can work these into the final product.

[haydar]

Another...

[BraindG]

cool ! :D

like the idea.. cant wait to see it in action :)

[Spirit]

Sounds like fun to me !

[-LegnumVR4-]

Are the paddles connected to the steering wheel or the column? By the look of it it's on the column. I feel it would be better to mount the switches to the steering wheel like the Playstaion wheels so your hands don't leave the wheel.

When i was playing around with the auto shifter i was also designing a way to hook up switches to the steering wheel to allow for steering wheel gear shifting. One way of doing it was by cable but it's a bit tricky INSERT INTO post VALUES (and u have to take the steering wheel off play around with the airbag); another was with a 2 channel remote and reciver INSERT INTO post VALUES (remote the size of a car alarm remote). Open up the small remote and wire to switches to it then mount the switches to the steering wheel. You could then place the reciver under the dash then run wires from that to the mirco switches to trigger them. A couple of problems i see is how quick would the response be sending from remote to reciver and 2, maybe your gagage door is going up and down everytime u press the buttons:) I was thinking u could pick up a DIY remote kit from a electronic store:Ponder:

As for paddels, i was looking at using some handles/knobs for cupboard doors or draws. There are many designs out there which could be made to fit and they come in chrome, satin chrome which would suit the interiors of cars.

[haydar]

Originally posted by -LegnumVR4-
Are the paddles connected to the steering wheel or the column? By the look of it it's on the column. I feel it would be better to mount the switches to the steering wheel like the Playstaion wheels so your hands don't leave the wheel.

When i was playing around with the auto shifter i was also designing a way to hook up switches to the steering wheel to allow for steering wheel gear shifting. One way of doing it was by cable but it's a bit tricky INSERT INTO post VALUES (and u have to take the steering wheel off play around with the airbag); another was with a 2 channel remote and reciver INSERT INTO post VALUES (remote the size of a car alarm remote). Open up the small remote and wire to switches to it then mount the switches to the steering wheel. You could then place the reciver under the dash then run wires from that to the mirco switches to trigger them. A couple of problems i see is how quick would the response be sending from remote to reciver and 2, maybe your gagage door is going up and down everytime u press the buttons:) I was thinking u could pick up a DIY remote kit from a electronic store:Ponder:

As for paddels, i was looking at using some handles/knobs for cupboard doors or draws. There are many designs out there which could be made to fit and they come in chrome, satin chrome which would suit the interiors of cars.

The paddles are connected to the column and not the steering wheel. Originally I was going to connect them to the steering wheel itself but didn't for two reasons.
Number 1: Wiring into the steering wheel is not the problem as I see it, it's the constant turning of the steering wheel that I think will eventually weaken and hence break any wire going through it. If there is a way of feeding the wires through without this risk, that would be useful information to know.
Number 2: Although attaching paddles to the steering may seem like a good idea in that you can change gear no matter what the angle of the steering, in practise it doesn't seem to work that way. In a race car, with very little turning circle it's fine, but in a road car, the steering is often at more than a 1/4 turn and hence attaching the paddles to the steering becomes pointless. In fact it's better to have them on the column because you KNOW where the paddles are at all times and can still you them when turning.

I also though about the remote control idea but also felt that the risk of using it are probably high in terms of speed and also due to battery life.

If you look carefully at the pictures, you'll see the ends of the paddles are from the playstation.:D :D

As I see it we have a few options with this.

i. The BMW M3 SMG steering wheel has all the necessary paddles and airbag etc.. It would be interesting to see if we could attach this to the VR4.
ii. Privately get some custom made paddes.

[Roadrunner]

What about the steering wheel from the Evo VII GTA? It's got the paddle shifters there already.

Brian

[haydar]

Originally posted by H.7
What about the steering wheel from the Evo VII GTA? It's got the paddle shifters there already.

Brian

Now that's interesting :Ponder: .

Does anyone have any pictures of it? I'll have a scout around the internet to see if I can find anything on it. One would think that since it's a mitsubishi wheel it would fit. :nono:

[haydar]

Here is a picture I've found of the EVO VII GTA. As you can see it uses buttons to change gears and not paddles. Take it from me, paddles are more fun.:D

[-LegnumVR4-]

I know the steering from the Lancers before the 7's fits straight to the steering column, no mods needed. If mitsubishi didn't change too much then it may work. I know the buttons on the steering wheel don't work that great. Their position isn't the best as your thumbs have to reach down to hit the buttons, bit uncomfortable too.

I can see what you mean about the paddles being mounted to the column Hayder, if you use the driving style of keeping your hands parallel to the floor and let one hand slide over the wheel the design would work well as your hands are only a small distance away. But i still found after having a drive on some tight hilly roads i didn't have to turn the wheel very much. I would perfer to have the paddles on the wheel so they are right where i need them as my hands would need to come off the steering wheel to select the gears if they are on the column. But then, it's really up the person who is driving the car, everyone has there own driving style. I'm just sharing my ideas.

I know you can slide a cable down the shaft of the steering column but it's a bit tight. The cable i was thinking of using was the cable that goes from the hand set of a phone to the phone it's self. The cable is spring loaded so as the cable is pulled when the wheel is turning it would just tighten up INSERT INTO post VALUES (you would make sure you give the cable enough slack so there isn't to much pressure) then it would release and spring back when you turn the opposite way? Samething in the wheel it's self, bit of slack in there to allow it to tighten up a bit.

Also the other problem to be careful of the airbag, don't want that to be hindered by the paddles/switches getting in the way.

[Ailsa]

:D :D :D :D :D

Totally mad!!!, I love this place :D

Can't offer any advice at the moment, but my brain has activated "Cowboy mode" so you never know ;)

D.

[-LegnumVR4-]

Heres a photo of the BMW SMG wheel.

I also found this review of BMW's SMG system, Haydr this backs ups what u where saying about having the paddles on the column:

When getting back on the throttle, the driver finds he/she is still in the higher gear--which quickly leads to the other issue: column- versus wheel-mounted shift paddles. In a very tight, autocross-type turn, the wheel may be upside down, switching which side to pull to shift up or down. So when intending to shift from third to second, it becomes easy to inadvertently shift to fourth instead. With column-mounted paddles, they would be exactly where they always are.

[haydar]

Never thought of the telephone cable??? Is the steering shaft hollow? Does the shaft itself turn or is there a steering rod inside it? Is there space to remove the cable from the shaft from behind the steering wheel?

I checked the sides of the steering wheel itself and it seems to have holes exactly where one would want to fit paddles!

I take your point about the paddles being on the steering wheel itself and I think it's a preference thing. The only way to know for sure is to try both options and see which one works out better in real world driving.

The only thing we need now are some pukka paddles.

[haydar]

Originally posted by -LegnumVR4-
Heres a photo of the BMW SMG wheel.

I also found this review of BMW's SMG system, Haydr this backs ups what u where saying about having the paddles on the column:



I wonder if BMW would sell the paddles by themselves??

[-LegnumVR4-]

Yeah the shaft is hollow, when i was playing around with the cable and it took me about an hour to get the cable down the shaft. I had the steering shaft/column out of the car when i was rebuilding it. There is a hole at the end of the shaft where u bolt the steering wheel on, this hole ends up at the end of the pivot point where the shaft turns to go through the fire wall.

The holes in the side of the steering wheel holds the airbag in place, it would be ok to use them but u would need to remove the paddels first to undo the airbag.

[-LegnumVR4-]

Originally posted by haydar
I wonder if BMW would sell the paddles by themselves??

I would just get a sheet metal worker to cut some out for you once u have played around with some cardboard cut outs :)

Note to Barry: Should setup a chat room for the VR-4Club on here so we can chat :D

[Spirit]

LegnumVR4 - I have posted your suggestion in the site ideas forum for Barry to see it in case he doesn't read this. It may all come down to cost though.

Pete

[-LegnumVR4-]

Ok thanks:)

[zentac]

One of the FTO Owners INSERT INTO post VALUES (here I go again about FTO`s but they are very similar cars!) designed some button shifters and paddle shifters for the Tip box, but after a few weeks of use the wires became too tangled down the stearing column. Last I heard he was looking into using some form of infra red or wireless to do it.
I believe there is a company that already does a wireless kit for disabled drivers.

[haydar]

Hi all

Barry is going to attach 3 AVI's I took of my paddle shift system. For 2 two of them I had to squeeze the digital camera between the head-rest and seat of the passenge side. For one that's looking directly at the steering wheel I had to balance the camera between my chin and chest INSERT INTO post VALUES (not the easiest way to drive :Eyecrazy: )

I used the video facility in my digital camera so could only take 30 seconds of footage.

Give me your feed-back. :gram:

[BraindG]

{edit removed to save disk space - email me for copy - Barry 28/07/03}

Video One

Video Two

Video Three

:D

pity theres no sound though :INSERT INTO post VALUES (

[haydar]

I'm trying to get hold of a proper digital camcorder. I'll then try to get a proper video made.:cool1:

[-LegnumVR4-]

The video footage is fine Hayder. It looks like the paddle system works good. How much closer do u think u could bring the paddles to the steering wheel, bend the metal brackets closer? Looks like u have stretch a bit to reach the paddle? Also do u think the levers could be a bit lower, maybe about 30mm parallel with the other levers?

When wiring up the switches, do just have to run one wire to the one we swap over to reverse the gear levers throws?

Anyway great work

:thumb:

[BraindG]

aye, i recon the pads should be a wee bit wider.. they look a wee bit to small... but hey.. ive said it before, and ill say it again.. if you need an automatic, i know a great place to buy some Zimmer frames :D

just kidding, im proud of what youve done, dont get me wrong.. good job mate..

once your happy, ill be glad to put it up in the articles section!!!

[-LegnumVR4-]

I had a though about mounting the brackets. It u get a sheet of metal and put in between the steering wheel and steering column u could screw it to the plastic steering column then have the arms coming off this to hold the switches. The ars could be bent forward to suit. The metal piece would have to be cut to shape to suit, anything is possible.

Maybe make up a rubber cap/boot to cover the switch. I'm sure u can get some smaller switches, just a matter of connecting a paddle to the switches lever.

[haydar]

Thanks for the feedback. Like I said the system is very much a prototype, and the paddles from the playstation :D .

The metal brackets could be bent anyway required and I do like the way they are positioned in the picture of the Ferrari. The two restrictions of where I currently have the paddles is that you need to be able to use the indicator stalk and I didn't want them to interfer with it's actions and also the back of the steering wheel needs a minimum gap to be cleared as it rotates.

I've bought some switches that should be better than the ones I'm currently using and I'm looking into where I can make a custom bracket to attach it closer to and to the side of the steering wheel, as per the Ferarri.

As for the wiring, I took a lead from both the up and down action of the tiptronic system but only one power lead. INSERT INTO post VALUES (3 wires in total). The reason for this is I have a cut of switch so that if you are using one lever, the power is cut to the second. This is to stop someone pulling both levers at the same time and the tiptronic gearbox blowing UP!

[haydar]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BraindG
[B]aye, i recon the pads should be a wee bit wider.. they look a wee bit to small... but hey.. ive said it before, and ill say it again.. if you need an automatic, i know a great place to buy some Zimmer frames :D

:D :D :D
Sure but it's so much fun using the paddles.:D :D I was playing games with a guy in a Focus RS the other day and just being able to keep both hands on the steering wheel and changing gears just at the right times as we went though a series of bends meant I was right up his bumper and left him wondering if he'd wisely spent £20k.

The system is especially brillant if you want to rapidly change down several gears at the same time. So you are in 5 gear at about 35mph and you want to go down to 2nd. Using your finger tips you just pull the lever 3 times and the system goes down 3 gears in one go! AND BAM, you're gone!...
:devil3:

[-LegnumVR4-]

Yeah i can see how the this design is a prototype, u have to make something up first for everyone to see then refine it from there. I think what u have done is great specially when u take into account about the wiring, not alowing the 2 paddles been pulled at the sametime:)

I know what u mean about the steering wheel hitting the bracket/paddles but like i said about having that bracket mounted between the steering wheel the plastic column cover, the bracket can be out of sight and the arms can be bent up the line of the steering wheels shape which would still allow the wheel to turn without hitting.

I think the paddles could be shorter, about to the point on the indicator when the turn bit finishes. U only need to be able to get to the end of the stalk to use it. By having the paddles closer u have more room for them as well.

Did a rough draw of what i mean INSERT INTO post VALUES (did this 2:30am so it's not that bad):)

[haydar]

Your diagram is an excellent idea! :hurrah: :hurrah:

I'll start work on these brackets and it should work really well.

Could you tell me how to remove the steering wheel? I was thinking that all we really need is to custom make leather cover for the brackets, like leather manual gear lever covers, only leaving the paddles uncovered. This'll hide all the wires and the switches and make it look like a professional conversion. :cool1:

[-LegnumVR4-]

To remove the steering wheel u need to disconnect the battery for 10 minutes or more, u then have to have the correct bit to undo the bolts that hold the airbag.

I would just undo the columns top bit of plastic INSERT INTO post VALUES (3 screws under the column); the bracket would screw to this, there is plenty of room to connect to. I didn't do a diagarm showing from the front, the bracket doesn't wrap around the whole column, just to the upper plastic column.

Also check when u turn the steering wheel that there isn't a part of the airbags clock spring that will hit the bracket when the wheel is turned.

I'll be playing around with another idea for a shifter. Keep working on your idea, want to know how it turns out. I'll keep u noted if i find anything that may cause a problem.

Rhys

[-LegnumVR4-]

There is a part of the clock spring that can hit the bracket if you are not careful enough. Rotate the wheel so the bottom is at the top and u will see the little box sitting there when u look between the steering wheel and the column.

Also on my steering wheel INSERT INTO post VALUES (Momo) i found the point that sticks out the most is the bottom of the wheel so i'm working to this to mould the brackets shape too. Maybe different on yours.

[haydar]

LegnumVR4 INSERT INTO post VALUES (what is your real name?)

Keep me upto date on how you're getting along. I'm struggling to find a switch that is small enough to fit, but strong enough to be provide suitable resistance when the paddles are pulled.

I have a sinking feeling that I'm going to have to make a custom switch.:Cry1:

Also, I'm busy at work for the next couple of weeks INSERT INTO post VALUES (no rest for the wicked :devil2: :) ) so if you get to create a template for the bracket before me, please post a picture of the template to the forum.


Good luck.

[-LegnumVR4-]

Names Rhys :D

I'm making up a design which is different from yours. It's one of these designs that u just try and see if it will work. Parts of the design have worked, just have to refine a couple of things before i show it. I would like to see how your design will turn out so i'm leaving it up to u to. Don't want to take away any of your hard work bud:)

I'm sure an electronic shop has a good selection of switches, sometimes u just have to work with what your've got and you build around it.:shrug:

When testing my design it's nice being able to change gears without taking your hands off the wheel.

[haydar]

LegnumVR4, if you check out the Galant cruise control lever, it is located just behind the steering wheel to the right and protrudes from the air-bag screw holes. One of the actions of the lever is to be pulled forward INSERT INTO post VALUES (just like a paddle shift lever) which on the cruise control lever is a CANCEL function!

I'll take some digit pictures of it and post them on the web site but I think we've found our steering wheel based paddle shift switch! Since it is meant to be in the steering wheel, it is bound to already have a mounting point. The only issue to overcome is that it is only on one side of the steering wheel so we might have to modify it to fit on the left hand side. I wonder if LHD cars have the cruise control lever on the left hand side of the steering wheel or would it still be on the right????

[-LegnumVR4-]

Interesting, i don't have cruise control on my Legnum. Sounds like it could be good idea. I wouldn't mine knowing what the part number of the cruise control is so i could hook it up on my car.

[haydar]

Why do you think cruise control did not come as standard on the VR4??? It's not like it wasn't top of the range??? It's also not like they were saving on the weight, the VR4 isn't exactly a light car is it??? This also applies to things like electric seats. In the UK, the normal V6 galant comes with electric seats, but again the VR4 doesn't???

I'll see if I can find the part number for the cruise control switch...

[Brind]

Cruise control over here is a little pointless though, since when was the last time you could actually cruise over here? you're either stuck in traffic stuck at lights or stuck behind an idiot driver doing 20 around no overtaking country roads, and when you do have a clear road... the last thing you want to do is CRUISE! :devil2:

[-LegnumVR4-]

Paddles are out, peddels are in INSERT INTO post VALUES (for me anyway:D )

I've mounted some foot peddels on to the foot rest. One peddel goes up the gears, one goes down. Leaves both hands on the steering wheel at the sametime too. Gives the left foot something to do:)

I find it great but only really use it in the twisty tight stuff. Other times it's the gear lever or just leave it in 'D' if cruzing.

[TBuTcher]

Im doing this on my Magna/Diamante....
I have some other ideas and pics and I will post them in a few hours.

Haydn
## EDIT ## Ok So What I did on mine is I got the clock spring from a Lancer... INSERT INTO post VALUES (it is the same as the one in the pic almost... the one in pictures are from my Legnum wagon that I bought for the motor)
I opened the ring and inside is a 6 pin flat ribbon cable... it winds around the center about 7 times INSERT INTO post VALUES (3.5 in each direction from the middle position)
I tried tpo find another one but I could not... I ended up finding another 5 pin flat cabel in a ford of some sort....
So I simply opened up the clock spring and removed the origional 6 pin cable... then I wound both flat ribbon cables back into the clock spring.
Meaning I now had 2 parallel flat ribbon cables giving me a total of 11 pins inside the steering wheel.
SO WHAT?

Well I then soldered onto the ends of the new cable some shorter wires and attached them to a push button.... you need 1 for Up+ and Down+ and 1 for Up-/Down- So a total of 3 wires only.
I have put a button on the right and left of the front of my steering wheel ... in the corner of the Horn pad.. I find that I dont have to push it hard to change the gears... ie the horn does not sound every time I change gears :D
You could put two buttons either side one front and one on the back... for Up/Down... this way it doesnt matter the orientation of the wheel ... the back of the wheel is Down and the front is Up.

Oh BTW the clock spring now only does a total of 5 turns .... 2.5 each way from centre... however a full lock of the steering wheel is only 1.5 turns so it is all ok.

I have attached a pic of the Legnum clock spring... it has 3 free pins since it does not have Cruise Control... 1 is for the horn and the other 2 are for the SRS airBag.

I hope this makes sense and it helps you out...

One last thing... you are still required to push the gear selector to the left to engage the SemiAuto mode...... or if you are REALLY GAME you can creat a toggle switch for that as well... and that way you can leave it in Drive and then flick a switch instead of physically moving it from D to SA mode.

Haydn


Part inside Steering Wheel
http://pronto.customer.netspace.net.au/ClockSpring1.jpg

Part attached to Steering Column
http://pronto.customer.netspace.net.au/ClockSpring2.jpg

Horn wire and SRS Airbag wires... 3 free to be connected to.
http://pronto.customer.netspace.net.au/ClockSpring3.jpg

[haydar]

Haydn

Could you give me details on how to remove the steering wheel. I have an idea about creating some proper paddles attached to the back of the steering wheel. I would need to remove the steering wheel I guess or at least the airbag part of it.

Could you destribe the proceedure and some pictures would really help.


Regards

[zedy1]

could you also post a pic of the steering wheel with the switches

[TBuTcher]

My front cut did not have a steering wheel attached...
But on My Diamante it does so I can take some pics of that one..
I have to wait a couple of days to get access to my good car as Im driving around a spare Diamante atm ...
Ill take pics of everything over the next two days..

PS I have not finished making up the stering wheel but I shall show you what I have got so far.

Haydn

[zedy1]

thatll be cool

[miller]

did these ever work successfully?


Mike

[Roadrunner]

did these ever work successfully?


Mike

I'll let you know in about a week ... ;)