Bi-xenon and legal requirements, please help

[swinks]

Hi there!

I'm just building new headlights. Stuff from China supplier arrived and ready to run new project.
Well, I have 4 projectors already made for bi-xenons, and here we go, I have a question:

Are there any limitations in highway code (or any other traffic law, i.e. dvla, vosa) of hi-beam and low-beam spots?
Picture to easier understand what I've ment:
26365
Spots numbers 1 2 3 4.

Now, I'm stuck in a middle of work.
If there's no such limitation, then easy way I'll have 4 spots of low-beam and 4 of hi-beam (nos 1 2 3 4). /rally
If there is something... it means more work for me /Grrr , more wiring and more HID ballasts, and finally 2 low-beam (nos 1 4) and 2 hi-beam (nos 2 3)

[Turbo_Steve]

I believe there is no limitation for High Beams, however there are certain restrictions on low-beams. That being said, given how close your lights will be (i.e. behind the same "lens") you could argue they are a single unit: this seems to be how volvo get around it :D

Why not fit a switch to the seconday low beams, negating the whole issue?

Not wishing to impact on your project, but if these are "Bi-Xenon" fittings, they are probably H4 fitment. These work by refocussing internally, and are notoriously difficult to achieve the correct light pattern with.

They also generally give less light level than a dedicated envelope: Why did you go for the dual Bi-Xenon setup instead of H7s or H3s or similar?

[swinks]

Well, thanks for make it more clear.
I did go for bi-xenons 'cos I found some interesting projectors easy to fit into clusters. My projectors are separate units which you easily can fit directly into H7 (low) or H1 (hi) sockets in mirrors. Easy job plug&play.
Just like that:
26369
and mounting:
26370
Light bulbs are not H4.
Hi and low beam is made by switching diaphragm (two plates with different pattern) inside projector. It's made by electromagnet and outside control unit. Sounds complicated, but it's not.
Hope to finish within next two weeks (depends on my off-work time). So far seems that it's gonna be easiest DIY HID xenons work. Just need to end project and write guideline.

Still don't know should I stick to idea of "one" unit and two lights (low-beam)...:pimp2: I like the idea.
Otherwise, I have to find room for two ballasts, one switch, and one control unit for each headlight /Grrr .

[Turbo_Steve]

Wow! Now they ARE interesting!

I have to confess, I'd be inclined to keep the two beams seperate: if you start relying on the moving diaphragm, you can have all sorts of issues: the H4 units have a "sleeve" that moves, with an external controller, and they are notorious for losing their calibration: it's not a big deal, just re-adjust and do the MOT again, but it can be a pain.

I think I would be tempted to go with a single "bi-xenon" doing low-beam and high-beam and use the inner lenses for high beam only. Doing it this way means you retain the "flash" function (the diaphragms tend to move a little too slowly for a proper "flash") but you don't end up waiting for your high-beam HIDs to "heat up" when you flip them on down a country road.

Will you be removing the existing reflectors?

[Turbo_Steve]

PS.....where did you find this kit? e-bay?

[Louis]

Looking good!, having 4 low beam and 4 hi beam will be bright!!. The only thing I would say to check is:
Do the units have DOT (Department Of Transport) approval for use, or are the units "E" marked ( should have an E in a circle stamped on them for EU (European Union) approval). You can find these marks on your original headlight glass.
Basically you are using your original headlight glass as a cover and not part of the light, (like a box for holding your new projectors).
If they have DOT and E marks then they are legal for use, if in doubt ask at an MOT station.
Looking forward to seeing finished photos, all the info I have is here:

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28603&highlight=projector

[Roadrunner]

If there's no such limitation, then easy way I'll have 4 spots of low-beam and 4 of hi-beam (nos 1 2 3 4). /rally


I can't think of any regulation that prevents a setup like this, as long as the beam patterns meet MOT standards. The only caution I would mention, though, is that EVERYONE will think you're on high beam when you're not (because they can see four lights) so you'll get flashed a lot. I had that setup on a Mk II Capri (albeit with halogens rather than HIDs obviously) and did get a bit fed up with folk flashing for no reason. Mind, melting their eyeballs when I did flash them with four high beams made up for it :D /pan

[Turbo_Steve]

My Evo doesn't have DoT or E markings on the factory fit JDM headlights? Still passes.... Interesting.

I've had an Orion with a spot bar connected to the main beam, which used to pass.
The Zed used to fail for having the main beam reflectors partially illuminated (used to run the bulbs at 6v as people couldn't see the projectors from some angles).

I think the whole thing is ridiculously subjective.

[swinks]

PS.....where did you find this kit? e-bay?

Yep!
There is one auction:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PROJECTOR-LEN-KIT-Angel-Eye-E46-M3-TSX-H4-D2S-HID-XENON_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em63Q2el117 7QQhashZitem270352691120QQitemZ270352691120QQptZMo torsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Chinese stuff, so first I ordered 1 set for trial. They are very lazy with dispatch/delivery, got mine after 5 weeks :speechles .
And my surprise... really good quality, I mean REALLY, with all electrics. Easy to set it up. What you need is ballast only.

Only one issue. Originally there is LHD shape diaphragm inside projectors, but projectors can be dismounted easily into pieces (4 tiny torx screws), and diaphragm re-done.

Recently I've ordered another set, so within next 3 weeks I should have finish.

[Nevman]

Swinks - that is really interesting.
Looks like we are going to have a lot to talk about on the next Japfest.
You are coming I hope, aren't you?

[pitslayer]

BI xenons? HIDS? if they are one and the same, rather grey area on the old law, yes you can retrofit them and use them, but you need headlight washers and self adjusting height level on the lights

[Anderz]

That sure makes retrofitting easy. I retrofitted four 3" Bi-xenon projectors and audi style led strips into the original headlights. Was a really tight fit and had to make custom shrouds out of plexiglas. I am only using 2 projectors as low beam.

For HIDs you need to have headlight washers and automatic leveling (if car i 98-> otherwise manual leveling if enough)

[GT40-Steven]

Anderz I guess the regs in most of Europe is the same and specially between Sweden and Finland.
I was informed by Mitsu Sweden that LEGALLY you are not allowed to change the headlights at all since my car falls under the WVTA EU regs being a 1999 model.
Now I'm starting to question that since the car is not sold new inside EU.
What did they say in Finland when you registered the car?

[MikeKey]

I wonder what it would look like if you got a set of these with orange angel eyes, then wired those into the indicators? :)

[Anderz]

Anderz I guess the regs in most of Europe is the same and specially between Sweden and Finland.
I was informed by Mitsu Sweden that LEGALLY you are not allowed to change the headlights at all since my car falls under the WVTA EU regs being a 1999 model.
Now I'm starting to question that since the car is not sold new inside EU.
What did they say in Finland when you registered the car?

Guess so too. Registered my car with the headlight from my former V6 galant, so was no issues with that. Guess you are not allowed to retrofit xenon projectors unless the headlight casing is approved for HID. The JDM Galant headlight has no E approval on the lens and it is marked HC/R, that means it is halogen dipped and driving. Bi-xenon headlights have to have DR/C marking and E approval.

Hopefully the MOT engineer wont examine the approval markings so carefully, normally they do that only when registering the car. Otherwise I have to get other headlights for MOT

[GT40-Steven]

Guess so too. Registered my car with the headlight from my former V6 galant, so was no issues with that. Guess you are not allowed to retrofit xenon projectors unless the headlight casing is approved for HID. The JDM Galant headlight has no E approval on the lens and it is marked HC/R, that means it is halogen dipped and driving. Bi-xenon headlights have to have DR/C marking and E approval.

Hopefully the MOT engineer wont examine the approval markings so carefully, normally they do that only when registering the car. Otherwise I have to get other headlights for MOT
swinks sorry for stealing the topic a bit...

I just came off the phone with a techie at the dep of transport here. One must as Pitslayer say retrofit headlight washers (high pressure spray) and self adjusting leveling. What's good in my case is that the car is imported "for personal use" and that means that it's not falling under the WVTA/CoG rules :happy:
Question is how hard is it to find and fit the sensors and control system for self adjustment.
swinks do that kit come with height adjustment posibilities?

[swinks]

What is making that project so interesting... you can dismount lights for MOT within 30 min and be back again (well, twice glueing clusters), or just like me, have a spare set :scholar:

BTW, I have headlight washers in bumper (taken from V6), easy to do as well. All you need is washers, pipe, and washer-tank with two pumps. Some wiring and switch, or connect to windscreen system.
Self leveling - I'm thinking about that. Need headlights (may be smashed :happy: ) from V6 or other EAxx and take from clusters mechanism, swap, wire, and level switch. But IMHO that requirement is b&^^%ks, somebody "smart" figured out that if xenons are such strong that you "have to" blind oncoming traffic on every occasion you are overload in rear, and you'll need to do it from driver seat. You see, b***cks. Why you can't adjust level manually openning bonnet.../Grrr Lazy b***rds.

[GT40-Steven]

Sure yeah I agree with you regarding the self leveling but I don't write the traffic laws so....
As you said grabbing motors and stuff from a V6 or GDI would be the easy part. The question is what self leveling sensor to use and how to hook it up correctly. I guess positioning of the sensor id crucial and you would also need some way to trim it to make it work correctly. Otherwise it would be worse then just having the manual leveling.
Well maybe it's easier to just have a second set of headlights for MOT and hope the traffic cops don't have a bad day :)

[swinks]

Re: level adjustment...
Projector are stiff screwed into mirror sockets. All adjustments remained the same as in regular lights (screws in mirror corners level rihgt/left and height hi/low). Basically, you are using the same adjustment system as in regular lights without modifying. Just I'm curiuos how i'd be to swap whole mirrors and stepper motor (screw-like system) from regular Galant EAxx. Well, not exactly self-levelling, but...
To be honest, according to ECE act 48, ours VR4 are not legal if they not equipped with level system inside cabin (light cluster with stepper motor).
And another point, all those requirements (self-cleaning and self-levelling) are about new build cars due to homologation for use in particular country. There is nothing saying about old cars modified for personal use (only correct shadow/light pattern, reasonable clear glass, etc.).

[Turbo_Steve]

Agreed: as Pits says, it's definitely aimed at new cars, and a total grey area on retro fit.

My experience has been that you can put the same car through the same MOT twice with nothing changed and get a different result, so I guess it's just how much hassle you're prepared to deal with. I think I'll keep an eye out for a spare set of headlights just in case, and then I can't really lose.

[GT40-Steven]

Yeah I guess it's a matter of luck, time of day if there is a full moon or not in case you pass. I dunno if the law i EU common or if it's an interpretation they do here in Sweden but what they told me is
Yes it's OK to retrofit projectors and xenon on a not homologized (sp?) import car regged for personal use
Yes it's required for ALL vehicles with xenon driving lights to have a a working self leveling system. If the system is not working properly it will fail MOT

[swinks]

That's why I'm gonna keep spare regular lamps in case...

[swinks]

Job done!
Finished few minutes ago. There are dirty fingerprints on pictures still:
26471

26472

Finally, have 4 low and 4 hi beam lights :happy:
Diaphragms converted to RHD traffic so legal, and 4 HID ballasts and 2 control units. Now there's really no room for any more mod :scholar:

[Turbo_Steve]

Question is....do you fancy making similar for other people? :D

[swinks]

No problem....:pimp2:

But if someone is familiar with disassembling light clusters I can make some of guideline.

Overall cost was 2x 98 GBP for bi-xenon projector set, and 65 GBP for 2x pair of HID ballasts

[Nevman]

That looks really good Swinks!
Well done,

Looks like I will be interested in it.

[timmae2009]

Yes me too.....shame im in Australia thoguh =[

[Kryton]

As this post was started over a year ago, I assume you have been through an MOT since. Did it go through ok with the lights in or did you swap them with a spare set?

[swinks]

Mark4 did MOT with that set. Passed smoothly. /lol
For any details PM him.