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AndyD
06-04-2009, 09:33 AM
Prologue:
I'm merely day-dreaming and researching the possibilities of carputer-ism. There are other mods I want to do first, but it's something I can think about and quantify whilst I wait for my new glasses after losing my old ones at the beach /pan.

What I want to get out of this system is a desktop style computer that is usable in a car, that can run music straight from it's internal HDD with the capability of including later on, perhaps a GPS device, EVO Scan, DVD Player or w/e without having to resort to a laptop or the need of a mouse/keyboard to be stored in the car (though with the ability to do so if required)


Chapter 1, What I've Found so Far:
Whilst at work last week, I noticed our large digital signboard is run with an Asus Eee Box (http://www.asus.co.nz/products.aspx?l1=24&l2=165&l3=0&l4=0&model=2728&modelmenu=2). It's powerful enough to do what I need it to, has seperate graphics so I can run WMP full-screen with some cool visualisations I found on the net and wireless access to easily transfer new music from my desktop computer. More importantly though, I noticed the size of the case was approximately the same size as the little compartment in the left hand side of the Legnum Boot which is where I'd considered hiding such a device. I did a little research and found that the dimensions for the computer are 222 × 178 × 26.9 mm whilst my measurements of said compartment were approximately 260 x 190 x 100mm. A comfy fit.

Leading on from this I found a single DIN Xenarc 7" T/Screen (http://www.xenarc.com/product/MDT-X7000.html) which should work well with the computer, providing touch screen operation of the computer (and itself) whilst still retaining the functionality of a standard H/U.


Chapter 2, Inverters... WTF?!:
I am however, a little stumped when it comes to powering the computer. The rated power usage for the Eee Box is 12Vdc, 3A, 36W through a power adapter. I'm assuming the computer was designed to be plugged into mains. To run this off a car battery though, I guessing an Inverter is needed. I found two examples, a 12V 150W (http://www.dse.co.nz/dse.shop/49d9b22a011353e22740c0a87f3b06c3/Product/View/M5150) and a 12V 400W (http://www.dse.co.nz/dse.shop/49d9b22a011353e22740c0a87f3b06c3/Product/View/M5342) one. My question is, as the Eee Box only receives 36W through it's adapter... Does it matter what Wattage the adapter receives? Will the cheaper 150W inverter suffice or is the more powerful 400W inverter required to simulate something along the lines of mains power?


Chapter 3, The Other Bits:
Venting will be a necessity for the computer, obviously. I have freeware that should hopefully work on the Eee Box and track the internal temperatures of the computer. I am considering something along the lines of ducting into and out of the compartment and using 80mm PC Case fans or the like somewhere to force air in and out, but not to have them mounted on the panel that closes off the compartment (Considering MDF Speakers on the sides of the boot.)

I am aware of the specifically designed Car PC's with remote power ups (like amps) but I feel that I need a 'real' computer that runs an OS I'm familiar with, ease of expandability and doesn't have ugly as sin programs that I've seen on some of those specifically designed affairs.


Chapter 4, A Cry for Help:
Are there any pro's or con's you can think of? Any issues I should be aware of or things I should consider. I'm thinking it should be a fairly easy task, basic wiring and what not (Computer stuff is easy having built PC's myself. Nerd Alert! :scholar: :P) I'm imagining it's along much the same lines as installing a headunit/amp/subs etc. Unless I'm far off course!!


Epilogue:
Hope you enjoyed my novel. Couldn't think of a better placement for describing what I wanted from the system, so I came up with the prologue idea and structured the post around that to increase fun and ..... yeah, me shuts up now :P.

--Andy the Westie :D

scott.mohekey
06-04-2009, 09:50 AM
You don't need an inverter to run most computer equipment, you just need something to smooth the 12volt supply from the battery, and filter any spikes from the alternator etc. I've done a lot of research on this stuff, so can answer most questions. You can get a power supplies designed to run from the battery, and they're not too expensive. http://www.mini-box.com/ has a good deal of stuff.

wantavr4
06-04-2009, 11:06 AM
When you do try it will you post up pictures, i would like to try this myself. see how you get on first do. good luck.

orionn2o
06-04-2009, 11:27 AM
I have done all this stuff so can probably help you, but unfortunately I'm at work so I'll try and post up something useful later :)

Fully
06-04-2009, 11:36 AM
I was thinking about running a mini mac http://www.apple.com/macmini/specs.html
with windows xp lite. Touch screen and run a programe called FreeICE as my front end.
Height: 2 inches (5.08 cm)
Width: 6.5 inches (16.51 cm)

Small cheap little unit. Best bang for your buck.
I wish I brought one of these instead of my dvd headunit.

Turbo_Steve
06-04-2009, 11:37 AM
Whilst the EEEBox PC is neat, you might be better to consider using an ITX or similar Motherboard and dedicated power-supply. It's likely to work out cheaper, and the special car power units read the ignition and permanent lives, and will power the PC up and down in a controlled manner from the ignition switch and/or screen.

You'll need to run a remote reset and remote power button to the front of the car somewhere...if it crashes you will need to be able to quickly and easily restart it.

Cooling wise: rather than put it inside the little cubby, you could mount it behind the trim: fans can pull air from places like the spare wheel well, and duct it accross the PC and out of the vents at the back of the car....there is airflow behind the trim anyway,when the car is moving, so forced cooling becomes less of an issue.

Best bet is probably to mount the PC on a board, cut away the reverse of the cubby. That way, if you open the cubby, you have direct access to the PC motherboard. With the sides of the cubby cut away, air can flow across the board from forward in the cabin, and out of the rear vents. A single 120mm fan should suffice to assist this.

I came to the conclusion that using an external USB soundcard was the best way to manage the audio: it would allow a long USB run to the amplifier / head unit, and short audio runs.
A USB DVD drive can be fitted in the dash, and a USB touchscreen.

All that would then be required is a USB socket for a keyboard / mouse somewhere in the front. You could use one of those integrated ones with the laptop touchpanel on it, and hide it under the passenger seat. You WILL need to keep a keyboard and mouse in the car for when the PC misbehaves LOL.

Lastly: wireless. Mine had a WiFi card built in, but would only connect to my home network. It was scheduled to power up at 0200 every morning, log into my file server at home and synchronise with the "InCar" share.
This meant that I could come home, Rip CDs, DVDs etc to the movie / music library. Music would automatically be copied to the InCar Music folder, movies would be re-encoded at lower resolution (1080p playback in the car is expensive - better screens, CPU and graphics cards required, as well as monster hard drive space) and it all sync'd whilst I slept.

I was also experimenting with booting from a USB key. It seemed faster and simpler, and as it was write protected it was unlikely to get corrupted.

foxdie
06-04-2009, 11:47 AM
Use this for your power supply; http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=10754

It will regulate the automotive power input to a steady 12V @ 7.5 Amps peak (plenty of power to run the EEE Box, head unit, accessories etc) and survives engine cranks.

apeman69
06-04-2009, 12:22 PM
The Xenarc screen appears to be the dog's bo!!ox. I was looking at this a while ago but availability and reliability was a problem. However, if I was looking to buy a VGA screen for a carPC setup and the Xenarc was available I would get it irrespective of any reliability issues. I don't know why there are not any other companies manufacturing such a complete piece of kit. It was expensive when I was looking at it.

You may have done a search on here but, if not, here's a link to an article with many members' views during the planning and implementation of my carPC:-
http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33812

Here's a link to the PDF file detailing the project if you don't want to read the whole thread. There may be something useful in here.
http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=24258&d=1225112350

I hope you do this because I think it's one of the best totally personalised mods you can do to your car.

wintertidenz
07-04-2009, 02:41 AM
I'm in the process of installing one of these in my car at the moment. I've used an Atom motherboard with a laptop HDD and DVD drive. Easiest way to go is skip the inverter, they can introduce noise into the system and apparently aren't great for long term use. You have to turn them off as well otherwise they drain the battery :(

I found a local supplier that can supply the Mini-ITX case with a car PSU, from memory it was around $200... http://www.procase.co.nz/
Their car PC PSU is very similar to the M2-ATX, it will survive cranking the engine and has an ignition/accessory relay so that it will turn on after a certain time of the ignition being left on, then send a power-off signal to the PC and shut down after the ignition has been turned off.

As for motherboard, I would recommend the Gigabyte one, you can overclock it if needed and is a pretty good price. Gigabyte is a very good brand too :)

As for front end and software, there are a few out there... Centrafuse and MediaPortal are the better ones out of the lot.
I would also suggest that you use a Creative sound card with the KXProject drivers, these drivers allow you to do up to 91-band EQ and time alignment. There are only certain cards that work with the drivers, so check the list carefully :)

http://kxproject.lugosoft.com/index.php?language=en

As for the touch screen, I have found a supplier that have a screen for $350... not sure about the quality though, will find out when I buy and test it.

HDD - I have gone for a normal laptop 80GB one as I am using an iPod for the audio storage, however you may want to spend a couple of hundred and get a solid state drive. I tried running Windows XP from a USB key, it was so slow it took about 3 hours to install Windows and 5 or so minutes to boot up.

Turbo_Steve
07-04-2009, 04:07 AM
It's best to ensure that the USB key is written "interleaved", this speeds it up no end! You can't do it with all of them, though, and need to use a proper disk manager to build the partition interleaved with the correct block size for the memory array inside the USB stick. IT wasn't bad when I tried it, but a royal pain in the next everytime you wanted to rebuild it. Write speed was utter utter pants, no matter what I did to it.

scott.mohekey
07-04-2009, 04:22 AM
An alternative to a USB flash disk is a compact flash disk with an IDE/SATA adapter. These read and write MUCH faster than USB flash disks.

If you put windows/linux on one of these and mate it with an 80gig 2.5" drive for music etc, you get a pretty good setup.

scott.mohekey
07-04-2009, 04:23 AM
Another thing worth mentioning is that if you go with windows, you can install it in a read only mode on the flash disk, greatly prolonging the life of the disk AND speeding it up somewhat (windows by default writes a lot to the WINDOWS folder when it doesn't really need to).

Lots more information related to this on the mp3 car forum (www.mp3car.com).

matchtheclown
07-04-2009, 11:06 AM
http://ozvr4.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3871

Not sure if you are all members but I have a mini-itx board running off a smart PSU in my glove box with a 10" touch screen built into the center console. Runs centrafuse as a front end on windows xp for GPS and music / vid.

Also i'll be able to have my haltech tuning page up too once my miniceptor is installed.

It's a bit of a long winded thread but plenty of pics and info which I hope will help anyone willing to give it a go.

You will love it if you are willing to go for it btw.

I also have a ps2 installed in the boot which runs through the screen as well.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r63/matchtheclown/carpc001-1.jpg

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r63/matchtheclown/carpc.jpg

AndyD
12-04-2009, 11:31 AM
Based off the info I've gotten so far - The Eeebox + Xenarc setup whilst simple to plug together, is not very cost effective and probably won't please the audiophiles.

Many great points have been brought up so far. I was unaware until now of PSU's designed specifically for car batteries and they seem perfect for the job (somewhat unsuprisingly :P). More and more research leads me to agree that buying a dedicated PSU and Micro-ITX type mobo will indeed be cheaper and achieve more of what I want in the way that I want.


Matchtheclown (Hugh?):
That install is sensational! Little more conspicuous than what I'll idealy be going for, but it's a bloody good guide line :) Was it difficult to get the LCD out of it's casing? Did you have any problem keeping the rest of it's innards from causing trouble?

Steve:
Are you able to give a photo of what you mean regarding venting? I sortof get what you mean, but a rough photo/diagram of what you'd put and where would help me greatly :) As for running USB Ports to the front, I personally won't bother. I can see that it would be useful if things go pear-shaped, but I intend setting it up in my desktop before installing it. Though with expandability in mind (GPS, BT, Wifi, Diagnostics later down the track) I will be able to run a hub or what not to the front if needed. I like how you have the sync setup and will probably get it to link to my router, but as I don't have a dedicated server or computer I leave on here, I would probably have to update it manually.. which is fine.

I've had a look in my usual spots for the USB Audio Cards, they're like 1/10th the price of a PCI-E Card but they only have 1 or 2 audio outputs. As I probably won't be using a H/U.. I think it's fairly important that output is of good quality and easily controlable via the CarPC ergo: PCI-E > USB?

For the Front End I just can't help but thinking of using WMP11. I just love how it looks and I have a wicked "WhiteCap" visualisation that makes me 10 grams lighter every time I see it :inquisiti


I will look into quick boot systems, because the one's I've seen take forever to load lol :'( And can anyone briefly explain what the CarPSU does when the ignition is turned of in terms of the computer. Does it initiate a shutdown, does it just kill it or wait for the computer to sleep? The last not being good if you leave WMP running :P

I'll be looking at ITX boards on my day off tomorrow and try to get a rough idea of what can be done fitting cards and PSU's into a draft system.


So the new plan:

Mini-ITX Mobo
CarPuter PSU
Mid-Range Audio Card
Shock-Proof SATA HDD (eg. 80GB Seagate Momentus) or Flash HDD (Depends what I can find)
Dismantled LCD w/TouchScreen

1.8GHz CPU
2GB RAM
Win XP w/SP3 (Read Only, Sans Non-essentials... not including minesweeper!)
WMP11



I like the idea now that this can be done on a budget and is actually obtainable.

One other thing I was thinking about.. Does anyone know of any software/switch combinations that can be used to control Neons (just to keep it basic). I'd definatly have a killswitch in the circuit in case the computer dies, but just more whimsical ideas to entertain I guess.


tl;dr? Bit of a eyeful I know.. but I love typing!

AlanDITD
12-04-2009, 12:03 PM
I have also been looking into this lately, and will be going for the mini-ITX route.

www.scan.com are doing the atom board and integrated dual core chip for 77quid delivered.

Alan

apeman69
12-04-2009, 12:32 PM
The car PSU can be configured to act how you want it to really. In conjunction with Windows' shut down options (hibernate, sleep etc) you can make your shutdown perform however you want.
The car PSU will have a time delay that is set by jumpers on the PCB. e.g. 5 seconds, 2 minutes, 5 minutes, always on etc. When you turn the ignition off the PC will power down (according to how you have Windows power options set) after the specified time you have chosen by the jumper.
I have my PSU set to power down the PC two minutes after the ignition is switched off and Windows power options configured to hibernate. This way the PC is not on for too long after I have left the car and when I return, the hibernate feature means that the PC is powered up to it's previous state (whatever song was playing resumes at the same place) within 15-20 seconds.
If I return to the car within 2 minutes of switching off the ignition then the PC is still running via the PSU's link to the battery, thus bypassing the ignition switch off.

If you're hell-bent on using WMP11 then I'd have a go at using it on a small touch screen beforehand if possible.
The dedicated carPC front ends are designed with ease of use in mind when driving the vehicle and I wouldn't personally want to try to select songs from, for example. a WMP playlist as I find the text is too small. When using a touch screen whilst moving you really do need to hit the right selection first time else you're in danger of hitting something in front or to the side of you instead!
I have found that using any application apart from my front end software is quite difficult when driving, simply because things are not very big.

I designed my system with 2 USB ports mounted within the ash tray and have found these invaluable for copying music or whatever to the PC and even for previewing music before deciding to add it onto the PC. I use a USB pen drive in the ash tray USB mounts and this is much easier and cleaner that burning a CD or DVD and having to shove it in the DVD drive which is in the boot, or having to mount a DVD drive somewhere in the front of the car.

AndyD
12-04-2009, 11:28 PM
Last night as I lay in bed waiting to go to sleep (~5mins :P) I was thinking over the things I learnt that day, comparing numbers and what not. I came to the realisation that a Mini-ITX board is 170mm x 170mm... And that a DIN unit is typically 7" or 177.8mm... That's a decent 7.8mm gap. I can't remember the depths of our DIN Trays and I'm not about to rip it out as I finally got my gearknob on tight, but I'm fairly certain they're longer than they are long.. enabling you to mount a Mini Board back there (Keeping in mind to not let the board contact the tray anywhere). This would work well for splicing the wires that are already there for the speakers.... Just gotta figure out how to send RCA's to the Sub Amp :S

scott.mohekey
13-04-2009, 12:07 AM
My car pc plan actually involves making a case for the mini itx board from the factory stereo mounts, just as you've described. I have the case mostly constructed, I'm just stuck on getting a suitable lcd touch screen (I want a 12", and I already have a touch screen panel for the lcd when I find it).

RCAs to the sub amp is quite easy. My plan is to run USB cable right to where the amp is and plug a sound blaster usb sound card between the two there. Reduces the length of the audio signal carrying cables.

Turbo_Steve
13-04-2009, 10:30 PM
Last night as I lay in bed waiting to go to sleep (~5mins ) I was thinking over the things I learnt that day, comparing numbers and what not. I came to the realisation that a Mini-ITX board is 170mm x 170mm... And that a DIN unit is typically 7" or 177.8mm... That's a decent 7.8mm gap. I can't remember the depths of our DIN Trays and I'm not about to rip it out as I finally got my gearknob on tight, but I'm fairly certain they're longer than they are long.. enabling you to mount a Mini Board back there (Keeping in mind to not let the board contact the tray anywhere). This would work well for splicing the wires that are already there for the speakers.... Just gotta figure out how to send RCA's to the Sub Amp :S

Don't forget you'll need an amp to drive the speakers if you're not using a dedicated headunit touchscreen thingy.
And don't forget you will also need somewhere to hide the ITX powersupply: they're not teeny.

Finally, make sure you have sufficient cooling for both the ITX mobo and the PSU behind the dash: I would suggest a big fan (120mm) is a good idea, as I have seen headunits overheat in this space, and a CPU can get a lot warmer, especially when you start decompressing movies!

Perhaps a fan up behind the glovebox pushing air into the space, and another pulling it out and blowing it down onto the drivers feet....all using flexible plastic ducting?

scott.mohekey
13-04-2009, 11:18 PM
I have one of the tiny 4x50W Tripath amps from http://www.41hz.com/ (the Amp9-basic).

The ITX power supply I have is only slightly larger than the ITX power connector itself (the M3-ATX from http://www.mini-box.com/M3-ATX-DC-DC-ATX-Automotive-Computer-car-PC-Power-Supply?sc=8&category=981)

As for cooling, I was going to run some small diameter ducting to the glovebox area.

Turbo_Steve
14-04-2009, 11:30 AM
I've never seen that Pico-Plug-PSU before: That's stupendously cool!

The Truepath Amps look good too, although they don't look like they feature a whole lot of built in protection in native form: Soft start and shutdown are a must in automotive applications due to the way the ignition and starter ciruits can do all sorts of nasties. That aside, it looks brilliant, and the Tripaths on which they are based have some brilliant reviews. Should sound nice :D

scott.mohekey
14-04-2009, 08:43 PM
They do have soft start and shutdown, and you could power them from a regulator of some sort instead of direct from the battery.

I'm yet to actually power all of this up and test it. I've got a bit stuck on the lcd side of things.

wintertidenz
15-04-2009, 01:23 AM
smohekey - I'm getting my LCD from here, I don't know what the quality is like, but the price is excellent compared to the Lilliput screens:
http://www.cyberdome.co.nz/afawcs0130032/CATID=31/SUBID=208/ID=7127/SID=655855893/productdetails.html

scott.mohekey
15-04-2009, 01:34 AM
I've already got a Xenarc 7" flip out touchscreen.. its just way too small! So I'm after a 12" lcd with a vga adapter built into it. I have a couple from laptops,and an LDVS driver for the ITX motherboard (lets you drive certain LCDS direct from the motherboard), but neither of the lcds I have has the right pinout and making cables is as fiddly as a very fiddly thing.

wintertidenz
15-04-2009, 02:23 AM
The place I mentioned do also sell a 10.4" touch screen. Look on TradeMe as well - from memory there were a few 12" or 15" touch screen LCDs on there a couple of weeks ago :)

wintertidenz
15-04-2009, 02:29 AM
Btw, if you want to sell the flip-out screen, PM me with a price :P

scott.mohekey
15-04-2009, 02:35 AM
I'd have to put the flip out screen back together before I could sell it. /pan

It's had a few holes drilled in the chassis. Also, its not motorized.

AndyD
15-04-2009, 08:13 AM
Don't forget you'll need an amp to drive the speakers if you're not using a dedicated headunit touchscreen thingy.


I was planning on using 3.5mm Stereo Plugs (http://www.dse.co.nz/dse.shop/49e5783f00c59dbe273fc0a87f3b0723/Product/View/P1140), plugging them into an Audio Card, and wiring them to the front and rear components. A Stereo to RCA Cable (http://www.dse.co.nz/dse.shop/49e5783f00c59dbe273fc0a87f3b0723/Product/View/C1240) and an Female - Female RCA Adapter or somesort could then run out to the Sub Amp.

That being said, I guess I run the risk of ending up with a better quality system if I get say a 2 output USB Audio Card and a 4 Channel Amp (Front and Rear Components wired together, No Fade I know.. but it's basic atm)

I reckon I can make a sheet metal enclosure with inlets and outlets for ventilation. Where does one get 120mm bendy pipe from though???

Turbo_Steve
15-04-2009, 11:22 AM
I was planning on using 3.5mm Stereo Plugs, plugging them into an Audio Card, and wiring them to the front and rear components. A Stereo to RCA Cable and an Female - Female RCA Adapter or somesort could then run out to the Sub Amp.

Nothing wrong with doing this at all.

However, I would err on the side of caution, and look to have a multichannel, physical pre-amp between the PC and the car amplifier.
Why?

I just don't trust PC volume controls: I've done a fair bit of live work, and they can be changed by software without your knowledge, or resume from standby much louder than they were...etc etc etc.

It's entirely a personal preference, but I would prefer a physcial volume knob that you can SEE what the output level is.
So when you're doing some difficult navigating, or whatever, and try and turn it down, or passenger starts talking, you don't suddenly have a PC that has "gone slow" and won't let you mute it / turn it down and a 500w subwoofer in the boot. IYSWIM?

Maybe it's just me. Plenty of guys have done in car PCs without this, but maybe they're more tolerant of failure? :D

scott.mohekey
15-04-2009, 09:26 PM
I was planning on using 3.5mm Stereo Plugs (http://www.dse.co.nz/dse.shop/49e5783f00c59dbe273fc0a87f3b0723/Product/View/P1140), plugging them into an Audio Card, and wiring them to the front and rear components. A Stereo to RCA Cable (http://www.dse.co.nz/dse.shop/49e5783f00c59dbe273fc0a87f3b0723/Product/View/C1240) and an Female - Female RCA Adapter or somesort could then run out to the Sub Amp.


I've done something similar to this before, and it was noisy and prone to vibration issues. The connectors would come lose due to vibration occasionally.

Fully
19-04-2009, 02:17 AM
You can getting locking tabs in 3.5mm and rca plugs to stop them coming out.
Use a noise reducer cable protector.

sightless
19-04-2009, 10:11 AM
Im sold on this that i have just stumbled upon

then i saw the 7" model

edit :2
links don't work.
http://www.silverstonetek.com -> Grandia -> GD02
http://www.silverstonetek.com -> Crown -> CW03

wintertidenz
28-04-2009, 03:22 AM
For those of us in NZ, Jaycar is selling some 7" LCD touchscreens :) end of line however, so they are $400 instead of $600 or so.

They aren't on their site, but if you go into the stores they should have a couple - went and got one from the Manukau store today and they had two or three left. Code is QM3749 from memory.

Installed the drivers on my car PC and had a go, touchscreen is quite responsive... USB interface for the screen, and in addition to the VGA connection it has S-Video and composite video in.

matchtheclown
30-04-2009, 12:26 AM
This is the PSU I am using. M2-ATX, 160w output, Intelligent PS

http://www.vastute.com/index.cgi?exact_match=yes&product=Power%20Supplies&cart_id=8034.11792

That's an aussie site.

It's perfect it waits for 5 seconds for iginition on to boot the PC, it doesn't get upset by the engine cranking. It will stay on for 45 seconds after the car is truend off or until the PC has hibernated. It controls the soft power on / off button on the mobo to turn everything on / off.

And I got mine off ebay from china, its obviously a direct copy of the M2-ATX which I think comes from the US.

n13l pm
30-04-2009, 09:37 AM
Thats the PSU im using. It works a treat, no problems at all.


This is the PSU I am using. M2-ATX, 160w output, Intelligent PS

http://www.vastute.com/index.cgi?exact_match=yes&product=Power%20Supplies&cart_id=8034.11792

That's an aussie site.

It's perfect it waits for 5 seconds for iginition on to boot the PC, it doesn't get upset by the engine cranking. It will stay on for 45 seconds after the car is truend off or until the PC has hibernated. It controls the soft power on / off button on the mobo to turn everything on / off.

And I got mine off ebay from china, its obviously a direct copy of the M2-ATX which I think comes from the US.

Stevo
09-05-2009, 02:41 AM
iv gotta noob question but if it will work how i imagine it to in my head it would be quite good.... please please please point out any flaws in my idea i would hate for it to all go in and then destroy mi cars electronics or the pc.

so.........
my idea is to buy a 2nd hand laptop pc reasonable spec remove the screen and use a 10" touch screen thru the vga output running win xp lite for speed. now the real idea behind the laptop is that they have a battery, so for power i would fuse and apply resistors to a ignition controlled power outlet that match the power supply that came with the laptop, so that the power supply would be running only off the ignition.

the advantage that i can see from doing this would be that if i pulled over for a feed or somthing the pc would still be running but not drawing from the cars battery and draining it, so when i got back from my feed or what ever and hop in the car its immedatly running and ready to go, also with o/s's like xp you can set them to auo shut down after a certain period of time when on battery power and when on mains power just be constantly on, this would mean the laptop battery wouldnt go completely flat.

its just an idea i have come up with, as most laptops are designed to run from 12 - 14 volts which is what cars electronice are withen, but then again im talking outside of my knowledge zone lol

Turbo_Steve
09-05-2009, 01:31 PM
You would think that idea made sense, because it seems sensible. Unfortunately, it's not: sorry.

Laptops power management becomes a PITA inside the car: it shuts down things like USB devices when you don't want it to. Also most laptops have very noise audio stages, and generally aren't actually very good at multimedia stuff (with the exception of stuff like recent VAIOs etc, which have improved a lot).

The worst part of the idea, however, is the powersupply - Laptop power bricks cost £75 for a reason: they're very sophisticated. Most laptops need an exceptionally smooth and clean powersupply, as they have almost no filtering or protection internally. As such, if you go connecting a laptops power jack to a cars ultra noisy electrics, you will start having problems almost immediately. Stuff like battery life, noisy outputs, screen corruption. If you're unlucky you'll get data loss. The other problem is voltage: Lappys generally like an ultra-stable, single voltage at their input (and most these days are rated at 18v, not 14v). If it starts to deviate, then you get intermittant switching to the battery (which shortens battery life, and isn't suggested for a stable machine) and your regulators inside the laptop are going to overheat, either due to drawing too much current (undervoltage) or having to shed voltage as heat.

sightless
09-05-2009, 03:40 PM
You can controll how the laptop works in relation to power managment with a few adjustments

Get a usb sound card for the sound quality issue and for the power issue, i used to run mine through a little inverter all day long. (quite literally) in my last techie job

I was going to mount one of these mini inverters under the glove box so that I have a powerpoint for spur of the moment requirement

Turbo_Steve
09-05-2009, 09:27 PM
Yah, but the mini inverter retains the mains powersupply, which is different from running the power socket direct from the cars supply, which is what he was suggesting.

Also: it's really hard to wire in a remote reset and power switches on a laptop wthout opening it up and soldering. On a PC mobo it's really easy.

Stevo
10-05-2009, 12:38 AM
ahhhh ok lol thanx mate for that, i guess it was one of those good in theory bad in pratice things,

sightless
10-05-2009, 11:27 AM
i wouldnt say it would be bad in practise, just up a level on the technical side, depends what your comfortable doing

Turbo_Steve
11-05-2009, 10:38 AM
Agree there: the idea of running it from the car supply is essentially sound....it's just more complicated than you initially appreciated....which is pretty much like everything in life. If somoene didn't suggest the simple idea to start with, much of our technology wouldn't exist, so it's not a poor reflection on you at all.

Stevo
11-05-2009, 10:59 AM
awk lol thanx mate, so with that info under my belt, would it work like this??


instead of running it without the laptop power block, have it with that running off a power inverter that has a ingition switch like an amp, so that when the car is on its charging the battery and when its off its running on the battery with a shutdown timer ect same as before,

im not worried about soildering and modifying the laptop M/B iv had plenty of experience working on them and desktops, im just tending towards a laptop because of the battery options and the cheapness of them, and could setup a hibernate switch using the laptops screen switch or a auto shutdown option ect

for sound i would run a usb sound card plugging into the aux input on a normal car sterio which would give me radio and quick playing of cd's if i cant be bothored with the carpc, again im trying to cover all my bases lol

Confused
11-05-2009, 11:11 AM
Don't use an inverter - they're rubbish - why convert 12v DC to 240v AC then back down to XXv DC again - it's very wasteful!

You'll want something like one of the Carnetix power regulators (http://linitx.com/viewcategory.php?catid=153&pp=149,152,153) - which will provide you with a stable DC voltage, and also includes an automated start-up and shut-down controller - believe me 2-3 days of having to start it up manually will make you wish you'd done it right in the first place!


Check out Digital-Car forums (www.digital-car.co.uk) for loads of CarPC information and advice!


Garry

Turbo_Steve
11-05-2009, 01:12 PM
If you're happy to open up the laptop and sort the power out with one of those, then you're laughing dude :D Should solve the power control and supply problems in one go. I've not seen a laptop that ran on 12v for some years now, though.... usually it's at least 14v, and nearer 18v.

Mine right now is 19.5v and needs a whopping 3Amps.
As long as you can get sufficient wattage on a single rail, you should be fine.

Stevo
13-05-2009, 06:53 AM
mmmm this is turning out to be far more complicated than i would have thought lol, its going to be cheaper and easier just so scratch build a pc for the car rather than customise a pc to suit. which i guess has been covered over and over again sorry evry1 lol