Gearbox trouble now :S

[Piers1989]

Okay well the garage has jsut finished replacing the Torque converter seal on my cars gearbox.

No more leaks :)

However the gearbox isnt working properly at all. Ive left it with them for them to try and diagnose.

The symptoms are:

Place car in drive and it engages 1st gear quickly and harshly
It revs to about 4-5000 revs before changing straight to third, and does it hard again.
Will change to 4th in normal time, however changes hard again.
When it should hit 5th it changes back to thrid and engages limp home mode.
Turn the car off and on and the cycle repeats.

If you try and use the tiptronic it will not change gears up but will change down if you place the car in automatic and change down from third/4th (providing you havent hit 5th gear and consequently limp home mode).

Before I had the car towed to the garage the gearbox was working fine, jsut low on ATF, hence i had it towed. The only thing i ever noticed changed was jsut before i noticed the leak i found that when the car tried to engage overdrive in 5th gear it would pause for a few seconds before changing.

Also, when dismantling the gearbox the garage inspected it and said it all looked okay and none was overly worn etc.

My speedo converter chip died a while back but i never bothered replacing it, though i learned that the gearbox didnt like me messing with the wiring on the output sensor too much or it would immediatley engage limp home mode.

Is it possible that this is just a sensor issue, and if so which is most likley.

If its not a sensor issue what should the garage be looking for?

If you need any more information ask.

[elnevio]

What fluid have they put in?

[bradc]

What ATF did they use and are you sure it is at the right level?

[bradc]

ohh you cow Nev! Beating me by seconds!

[AlanDITD]

How did they tow it?

But yeah fluids to low or wrong sounds like, in which case go mad.

[Piers1989]

Im not sure but it wasnt expensive so i no it wasnt amsoil. I no it is a dextron 3 variant.

Surely it cant make that much difference instantly when setting off from scratch with brand new fluid?

[Wodjno]

Has the Battery been disconnected ? If so, the ECU will have lost it's settings and may just need time to settle back in..
Drive it very easy in drive for a coupla hundred miles and it should rectify itself..

[peter thomson]

Ask them to check the gearbox fault code. When you say towed it was on a flatbed?

[Piers1989]

How did they tow it?

But yeah fluids to low or wrong sounds like, in which case go mad.

The RAC guy disconnected the propshaft to the rear wheels and then lifted the front and towed it.

I gave them the articles on here to get the correct fluids. I no its easy to blame them but they have a VERY good reputation around here, even the RAC guy said they were very good and he said he was from lancaster which is like 70 miles away.

[elnevio]

Mitsi specify a SP-III compliant ATF. Dexron III doesn't count!

[Piers1989]

Has the Battery been disconnected ? If so, the ECU will have lost it's settings and may just need time to settle back in..
Drive it very easy in drive for a coupla hundred miles and it should rectify itself..

I thought that but surely the tiptronic would at least work and ti wouldnt go into limp home mode, i checked and they did remove the battery to do it.

[Piers1989]

Mitsi specify a SP-III compliant ATF. Dexron III doesn't count!

Even if its not quite correct (which i wouldnt be happy about anyway), surely its still a heat absorbing lubricant and its not going to make literally the world of difference when setting off slowly from standstill when the cars cold??

[Wodjno]

I thought that but surely the tiptronic would at least work and ti wouldnt go into limp home mode, i checked and they did remove the battery to do it.

Depends on what state the internals were like before the reset ? How did it drive before the seal issue ?
Was it that slick that the gear changes were hardly noticeble.

[AlanDITD]

Well i cant see it being a coincdence, the gearbox comes to bits and now it doesnt work.

If they are good then they will find the problem.

[Piers1989]

Depends on what state the internals were like before the reset ? How did it drive before the seal issue ?
Was it that slick that the gear changes were hardly noticeble.

Gear changes (appart from standing to 1st) were always perfect (sometimes if it changed to 5th and you were going for it and stopped as soon as it changed ti would jolt a bit but they were fine otehrwise, and the same remained true even when i drove it home slowly with low fluid.

[Piers1989]

Well i cant see it being a coincdence, the gearbox comes to bits and now it doesnt work.

If they are good then they will find the problem.

I aggree with you there i very much doubt its a coincidence but they inspected the box and couldnt see any damage to the internals, which is making me think it may be a sensor issue.

(I didnt say in my first post - it doesnt make any more noise than usual)

[Wodjno]

Gear changes (appart from standing to 1st) were always perfect (sometimes if it changed to 5th and you were going for it and stopped as soon as it changed ti would jolt a bit but they were fine otehrwise, and the same remained true even when i drove it home slowly with low fluid.


Place car in drive and it engages 1st gear quickly and harshly
It revs to about 4-5000 revs before changing straight to third, and does it hard again.
Will change to 4th in normal time, however changes hard again.
When it should hit 5th it changes back to thrid and engages limp home mode.

From your above postings it sounds like 1st was a little out of sorts already, as was maybe 5th.. The ECU seems to deal with the Gearbox issues whilst there happening with no reset.. But as i have found in the past, a reset can feck it up totally.. Mine used to take 7-800 miles to sort itself.. So thats why i never disconnected the battery whatever i was doing on the car..

[Piers1989]

Simply disconnecting the battery and loosing you "way of driving" info cant feck it up enoguh to completely break the tiptronic mode and made it always go into limp home mode rather than 5th though???

How would they have ever sold the car new if it took hundreds of miles before the car became drivable?

Also my statement about first previously makes it sound alot worse than it was. It wasnt like slamming into gear or anything, jsut made a very slighly noticable jerk if you wernt braking.

[bradc]

I'd replace the oil and make sure it is filled to the correct level, then reset the ecu again.

[Wodjno]

Simply disconnecting the battery and loosing you "way of driving" info cant feck it up enoguh to completely break the tiptronic mode and made it always go into limp home mode rather than 5th though???

How would they have ever sold the car new if it took hundreds of miles before the car became drivable?

It doesn't take Hundreds of Miles if the internals are New and Minty Fresh..
The more worn the internals the more the settling in period seems to be. And if there really worn, it may never settle :(

but as above.. I'd make sure the oil is the correct spec and the correct level /yes

[Piers1989]

I'd replace the oil and make sure it is filled to the correct level, then reset the ecu again.

Do we really think this can be just down to the oil? It was running fine when after i put 2 litres of castrol dextron III in and it still wasnt even touching my dipstick. I only did about 3 miles like this but for the whole time it was as smooth as ever.

Ill ask them exactly what oil they put in tomorrow but i really doubt they could have put in a fluid bad enough to result in this happening.

[peter thomson]

The speed sensor on Keith's car failed and the car drove in a similar way to yours but if they check the codes that will confirm if it is a sensor

[elnevio]

Well, in short, it worked before they had it, but it leaked.

They have fixed the leak, but it now doesn't work.

Don't do anything to it yourself. Get them to investigate/fix.

I know this is probably stating the obvious, but that's what I'd do.

You're right, it shouldn't go into limp home mode after a reset. At the other end of the scale, I have reset mine on a number of occasions, and noted no difference in the changes at all. The worst I've heard from others are lumpy changes.

[Piers1989]

The speed sensor on Keith's car failed and the car drove in a similar way to yours but if they check the codes that will confirm if it is a sensor

Speed input/output/the other1?

Im sure theyll already know this but what do they need to do to get the fault codes? they have all the computer equipment but i believe its specifically for audi.

If their computer wont communitcate with the ecu what do they have to do to read error manually?

[elnevio]

Earth pin 1 on the diagnostic connector with a bit of wire and a crocodile clip. The flashes on the dashboard will tell you the fault number - have a search for diagnostic codes.

[Piers1989]

Earth pin 1 on the diagnostic connector with a bit of wire and a crocodile clip. The flashes on the dashboard will tell you the fault number - have a search for diagnostic codes.

Okay, this hte connector under the steering wheel, and pin 1 is the top left when connector is held facing me with the "catchy locky bit" facing upwards, correct?

[elnevio]

This eBay guide points you in the right direction!

http://reviews.ebay.co.uk/Mitsubishi-fault-code-reading-amp-clearing-guide_W0QQugidZ10000000002365819

[Piers1989]

This eBay guide points you in the right direction!

http://reviews.ebay.co.uk/Mitsubishi-fault-code-reading-amp-clearing-guide_W0QQugidZ10000000002365819

Thanks thats most helpful. Im goin to go to my car now and ill have a look. I dont have the key to the ignition, but my alarms capable of a remote start. if i do this and DO start the engine, does it stop the diagnostic code being read out?

[AlanDITD]

It may turn the lights off but it shouldnt clear the code from memory.

You dont need to start it though.

[Piers1989]

It may turn the lights off but it shouldnt clear the code from memory.

You dont need to start it though.

I know but as i dont have the key the only option i have is use my alarm to remote start the car to get it to think the cars in the on position. (that or hotwire it), I can do either xD

[Beastlee]

It will continue to flash with the ignition running. the only time it turns the light off is when you start driving, then when you come to a set of lights or a junction they all flash again, quite well thought out I think.

[Piers1989]

It will continue to flash with the ignition running. the only time it turns the light off is when you start driving, then when you come to a set of lights or a junction they all flash again, quite well thought out I think.

Thanks for the info. Ill be back in a little while ill try and get a code now.

[AlanDITD]

It will continue to flash with the ignition running. the only time it turns the light off is when you start driving, then when you come to a set of lights or a junction they all flash again, quite well thought out I think.


Sorry mate, i meant the ECU light might go off when you Start the car looking as if there were no more fault codes, in case he was moving it then turning it off again.

[Nick Mann]

The speed sensor for the speedo doesn't affect the gearbox operation. So if it is a sensor, I'd say input or output shaft speed sensor.

I'm dubious about that much hassle with a gearbox being solely down to oil.

Also check out the resource library - auto gearbox manual - there is a section explaining oil pressures required for correct operation. There may be other stuff in the fault diagnosis that is relevant, but I haven't looked for your issue before. The manual is for a FWD galant, but I have found that much of the info on electrical connections/solenoids/oil pressures is spot on for the VR4.

[bradc]

The oil that is in there won't be helping things. I doubt it will fix all of the problems magically, but coupled with the fact it could be at the wrong level as well might mean the putting in some amsoil will fix it. Even if it doesn't, well the oil was the best thing for it if it did fix it :)

As for the sensor issue, it could be that there is some water in the connector or that it isn't contacting correctly. There are a few sensors that plug straight into the gearbox, including a hard to spot one towards the back.

[Piers1989]

Okay jsut come back from the car now. I think there were 2 codes but im not certain as to what they were. i think 21 and 22, but maybe 10 and 22 or even 10 and 12.

Just to be sure i took a video of it and im uploading to youtube now.....

[Piers1989]

Okay heres the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDA9ynqI9RE

just after 1 min i restart the car to confirm the readings.

[richy rich]

I read the N flashes as only 22.

[AlanDITD]

Hard to make out gearbox is code 22. Looks like you have traction control codes and also AYC, most likely from towing the car. They will hopefully clear with an ECU reset.

Not sure what code 22 is for the gearbox though. Ill have a look

[elnevio]

22 input axis speed sensor systematic short circuit/broken wire 23- 15

[peter thomson]

Input speed sensor

[Piers1989]

Input speed sensor

Ok well thats great news :)

(I hope)

As if this is causing the problem it definatley wasnt tehre before so ill get the garage to sort it asap at their own cost.

What did you think about the AYC and TCL codes?

[peter thomson]

Probably related to the gearbox and should clear when the wiring is checked or the sensor replaced. I'm sure they were flashing as well when Keith's failed

[Piers1989]

Are they going to have to remove it again to check/sort this?

My concern isnt the cost as im not going to be paying it, but the time. If the garage puts this back as it wasnt booked in / expected i wont have the car back soon and im meant to be going to london in it on tuesday/wednesday.

[peter thomson]

No you can get to the sensors without removing the box but you have to remove some of the intake pipes and a few other bits and pieces

[Beastlee]

I did the same job last year and it's not too bad. Get the part from Camskill and fit it yourself in about an hour. You need to remove the air-box and a few things below it to get to the single screw that holds it in. I'd recommend getting a vacuum cleaner down there to snork any crud sat in the well the sensor sits in. You don't want it dropping in your gearbox.
Make sure you get to the input sensor nearer the front, not the output sensor which is further back. It's below the plastic air pipe that runs next to the engine to the front turbo.

Part here : http://www.camskill.co.uk/products.php?plid=m22b0s1401p6030