Brakes Upgrade

[Spirit]

Need some help here !

Looking to possibly upgrade my front discs and pads but having trouble locating exact makes/part numbers and costs.

So far I have been told by Extreme to stick to the Mitsy originals, many of you on the MLR said this was crap. Many of you have also said to avoid EBC Greenstuff and Redstuff INSERT INTO post VALUES (and Extreme said this too); and Doc says he has Tarox discs as they are the same as an Evo 4.

Please can anyone tie down the BEST course of action - what make of discs and pads INSERT INTO post VALUES (part numbers an added bonus); and where to get them from ?

Thanks in advance.

Pete

[BraindG]

Once we have all this information, ill be putting it up in the main site, so that everyone knows..

its all important information to know, and it seems that very fwew know it, even us, the owners :confused:

ive got some info on brakes coming up..

[chris g]

I am still interested in a Brembo or AP brake upgrade

Will need to go to 17 or 18 wheels for I think it is 320 or 350 discs

But it will be ridiculous money! £3-4k - plus wheels

So an alternative which should be as good is Hi-Tec Motorsports based in London unfortunately

Have a website but do not address to hand.

Good service and support I understand - worth checking out as an MR2 turbo friend upgraded to Hi-Tec brakes and they were really good at a decent price - will something over £1k for biggest kit available

Of course weight and power different but he was only on 16 wheels so discs/calipers/braking power would not be same as for VR-4 on 17 or 18 wheels

If I see sense and do not go for AP/Brembo then Hi-Tec will be my choice

Chris

[Il Dottore]

Now, I live but 10 miles from HiSpec and they do seem to be a good outfit, but they are not that big. They do all their own machining on site.

Had a long chat with the guy and he advised not to go for 360mm discs which would need 18" wheels. He is familiar with the VR4 setup and said that 296 is "not man enough for the job". He suggested grooved and drilled 330s and Ferodo pads. I am getting some 17" Ozs soon, and will more than likely go for this option. Should only be about 2k for front an rear.

Altough, I am wary of drilled discs as they crack under high temps.

[chris g]

Just hadsome HKS springs fitted by WMS- Wincanton motor Services

I can recommend WMS - a Mitsubishi specialist - particularly if you live closer than I do - only 233 miles - not that it was so hard to decide - I was in the area to fight my GATSO case

Courtesy car - a turbo Starion pick up actually - provided by John at WMS - decent labour costs and friendly atmosphere for customers with coffee and videos to watch whilst waiting

They do routine servicing I believe and mods/tuning etc

Worth trying if you are reasonably close to them - John will be at JapFest with a stand so you can see him there about you needs

Chris



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[Spirit]

Following Chris' advice, I have sent an email to Wincanton Motor Services to get their advice and if possible an idea of costs.

I will post their reply as soon as I get one.

Pete

[chris g]

Re John at WMS

I forgot to mention that he can be rather brief with his replies

I asked him willing and able to work on VR-4, availability/cost of springs and cost of labour and suitability of a day/date/time and having courtesy car

His reply was yes!

Eventually I got more details - total cost of job inc springs but never cost only of springs

And after another e-mail, lile the f'in man from Del Monte he said yes, again, to the rest of the questions!

What a guy!

However, he did the work on time, under cost AND waited until about 645pm for me to get to Wincanton from my Court case at Devizes

WMS are worth trying for your VR-4 work - routine and the rest

At least you have to try places to decide where YOU feel comfortable AND have enough confidence in their work

Chris

[chris g]

Why did Hi-Spec say avoid 18 wheels and bigger discs and to go for 17 wheels and 330 discs?

Chris

[Il Dottore]

Only bec I was reticent to pay the 5k plus that Extreme were quoting. Obivously the bigger the disc, the greater the stopping power !!

[Spirit]

WOW - some big figures being banded around here ! I don't want to make mine up to race spec - just make sure it's safe on the road.....hoping to come up around £500 max - is this gonna be possible ?? :INSERT INTO post VALUES (

Pete INSERT INTO post VALUES (with fingers and wallet crossed)

[chris g]

I am not convinced, despite comments by various people that the brakes are that bad that they need changing for safe road use

If you are going to charge at every junction/corner/roundabout/lights etc and then need to jam the brakes hard I guess that you may wear the brakes outget brake fade and show them up to be unsuitable, for YOUR style of driving

For everyday driving, at least in Japan the brakes should be OK

We probavly use VR-4 harder here than Jap owners probably would but brakes should be up to it

How do you drive?

For enthusiastic road use using more of the VR-4 potential then a brake upgrade is a good idea I think - so more abrasive discs or pads or slightly larger disc with better pads - better still go for the best upgrade that you can afford as driving a car with the performance of the VR-4 usually means using much that power -

But for FAST road use or trackdays then I believe that you go for the biggest discs that you can afford

Hence the big money wanted by Xtreme and somewhatlees by Hi-Spec

Chris

[Roadrunner]

I've bought a set of Evo7 FQ300 Brembos INSERT INTO post VALUES (front discs, 4-pot calipers, pads, hoses + rear 2-pot calipers, pads and hoses) for £500. Just waiting to get a pattern taken so I can get support brackets made up for the calipers, but hopeful that it will all work OK. It may take a couple of weeks yet before I can get things going but I'll post updates here as things progress.

Brian

[BraindG]

where you getting that done? might be handy for them to hang on the the template :D if all goes well for you

[Roadrunner]

Local engineer will be making the brackets from the pattern. Certainly, if it's possible and he manages it, I'll be introducing him to the forum .... :)

Brian

[BraindG]

excellent :D /crosses fingers all goes well

[Spirit]

Chris was not wrong when he said Wincanton are brief with their replies....here it is :

"dear sir
i can only offer the pads at £120 +vat
regards
john"

So there you have it !

Pete

[BraindG]

lol :)

[chris g]

I mentioned brakes when I had my HKS springs fitted and if I was to pursue it with him he would check into it

You have to cultivate him I guess ansd lead him with various details about what you want so that he has some specific things to check and price

The less you give him the less is his response but with detail and specific questions as I put to him he can still end up just saying yes

He is worth perservering to get work done as long as you are ready to tolerate his minimal responses

Chris

[Gssplaya]

Dunno if this could help guys but i posted some info regarding a possible big brake setup idea in the pictures forum. This was regarding a big brake mod i did to my 7g galant..dunno if it could be done on an 8g but it might be worth a look

since on my 7g the brakes make it look like i could eat EVO's for breakfast and Porsches for lunch :)

[Ailsa]

We have std discs and calipers on the car and recently fitted Pagid Fast Road Pads. They are excellent and work exceptionally well on road and track.

To the extend one passenger on track use said that he had bruises from the seatbelt!! :devil1:

[Spirit]

Ailsa,

As they are fast road, do they work well under all conditions - .e.g. even when cold ? I need to do discs and pads soon so any advice will help - and I dont suppose you have the part numbers and a supplier do you ?

Thanks
Pete

[Ailsa]

Hi Pete,

Haven't had any problems braking when cold. Only thing we can't comment on is how long they will last - cause we've only had them about a month.... no noticeable wear so far though. INSERT INTO post VALUES (and they certainly get used...! :thumb: )

We got ours supplied and fitted by Marc at the Garage.

Web: The Garage (http://www.the-garage.co.uk/index.html)
E-mail: Marc (marc@the-garage.co.uk)

He'd probably be able to get you a price just to supply and send them out to you. He's got quite a bit of performance car experiance now and could probably recommend discs as well. Tell him Ailsa sent you! :cool1:

Good Luck improving your stopping power!
Ails:

[Spirit]

Thanks Ailsa, will look into it when I get the car back - hopefully this week :Ponder:

Pete

[Roadrunner]

Replaced the front discs and calipers today with the Brembos I got from an Evo 7 FQ300 - much easier than expected! :hurrah: I had expected to have to get new caliper support brackets fabricated but didn't need to. The 330mm discs fit on the hubs, the Brembo calipers fit perfectly on the standard brackets, and I kept the standard flexi hoses for the moment. The disc back plates had to be removed but I don't think this will cause any problem - the track rod ends are about 40mm away from the discs and it's usually these that need to be protected from the heat of the discs but, on other cars, these are much closer to the discs so need protecting. If anything, I expect removing the back plates will aid cooling :). I have 8x17 wheels from an Evo 7 and I'd guess these are needed as a minimum for this brake upgrade. There's very little room INSERT INTO post VALUES (<5mm) between the caliper and the wheel. But they do look good :cool:

Couldn't fit the rear calipers to the standard discs - on the Evo 7, the caliper sits to the rear of the disc; on the VR-4, the caliper sits to the front. The contact area of the discs seems to be different. The Evo 7 pads look like they need bigger discs so we're now looking at an Evo to determine whether the Evo rear discs can be used on the VR-4. I'll let you know .... :)

Brian

[BraindG]

as a matter of interest, how much were they?

i was speaking to AP today.. £3500 for full kit, front back, and about half that for fronts :Cry1:

[Roadrunner]

.... bought a set of Evo7 FQ300 Brembos INSERT INTO post VALUES (front discs, 4-pot calipers, pads, hoses + rear 2-pot calipers, pads and hoses) for £500.
:D

[BraindG]

thanks for the bold, couldnt see with out my glasses :nervous: /exits through back door

[Roadrunner]

You and me both :p ;)

[jaysback]

seen the pics of your brakes brian:cool1:
they look tops.
if the performance is a good as the looks then you should never worry about them again:D
jay

[pjjohnson]

The front brakes are the same as the EVO IV. Demon Tweaks do drilled and grooved front disks and numerous types of pads, total cost about £250, with next day delivery. The best pads I've used have been Ferodo DS3000 - they stop you really well, didn't get any fade at all on tracks days, and work OK from cold but are so aggressive on disks. Much, much better than standard pads and disks. I'm now using DS2500 which are said to be just as good but kinder to disks.

[Roadrunner]

I've heard the DS3000 pads are really hard on the wheels too :eek: because the brake dust eats into the alloy and essentially welds itself to the wheel - very difficult to clean. No problems reported with DS2500 though, which seemed to offer the best acceptable compromise.

Brian

[haydar]

Originally posted by H.7
Replaced the front discs and calipers today with the Brembos I got from an Evo 7 FQ300 - much easier than expected! :hurrah: I had expected to have to get new caliper support brackets fabricated but didn't need to. The 330mm discs fit on the hubs, the Brembo calipers fit perfectly on the standard brackets, and I kept the standard flexi hoses for the moment. The disc back plates had to be removed but I don't think this will cause any problem - the track rod ends are about 40mm away from the discs and it's usually these that need to be protected from the heat of the discs but, on other cars, these are much closer to the discs so need protecting. If anything, I expect removing the back plates will aid cooling :). I have 8x17 wheels from an Evo 7 and I'd guess these are needed as a minimum for this brake upgrade. There's very little room INSERT INTO post VALUES (<5mm) between the caliper and the wheel. But they do look good :cool:

Brian



Brian, how do the new disk and calipers perform? Please give everyone the low down.

[Roadrunner]

No complaints :D . Noticeably better stopping power than the standard brakes, although I haven't really given them a hard time yet ;)

[Darren]

To offer another point of view re the Pagid fast road pads, I've recently fitted some and after a tank of fuel to run them in I gave them some stress yesterday. I've just came from a set of DS2500 and thought I'd give them a go. They are similar in bite to the ds's at about 40 60 mph above that i think they start fading. I'm really not happy at all with them. Since they are half the price of the ferodo pads i'm sado say they half as good. I'll update if they improve over the next couple of hundred miles but at the moment i'm thinking of binning them as they scare me, compared to the abilty of the ferodo to cope with the vast changes in disc temps they simply don't cut it. Basically when they're very hot, they fade like mad, medium temp they are good cold, they are ok. but i think out cars might be a bit heavy for them.

[Rally205]

How did you bed the pads in Darren? Pagids glaze very easily if you don't bed them in properly but if you do it properly you shouldn't have any fade at all.