My car just died..... :(

[Piers1989]

Today while leaving halfords car park with a firend we reversed at idling speed back, slowed slightly and put the car in drive, ratehr than the normal smooth change to drive it slammed drive, anti-stalled, and repeated twice. The car seemed fine after this untill i pulled away at a junction at full throttle, and when revoving my foot from the accelerator the car changed gear but the revs didnt cahnge and there was a LOT of crunching noise. This quickly subsided (at first glance) and we continued, but found there was a slight grinding noise similar to that of a wheel bearing. We continued to our destination, which was just down the road.

After leaving the car for a few minutes to have a look under and around the car to diagnose any possible problems we found nothing- no dents or any signs of fluid leak. After starting the car again, putting it into drive resulted in a violent judder, and would idle, stop idling and slam into gear repeatedly.

I began driving home (only 10 minutes from where I was) and all seemed fine for the most part of the journey. After nearly arriving home, the car changed into 3rd, made a lot of loud crunching coming from the front, which was varified by my friend driving behind. Nothing fell out of the car and there are still no leaks, but it would appear that the gearbox has died.

Where it is parked now I tried turnign off the car and restarting (just in case), however the car jolts when it tries to engage, and makes a light crunching noise, but doesnt move and doesnt react to appempting to accelerate. This is the same in first and second gear.

When the drive was lost I was traveling at about 20 miles per hour down hill, I tried as many gears as i could access in tiptronic but none would engage.

Any thoughts as to what this might be if not gearbox, and was repair/replacing would entail?

[elnevio]

Fear not - brad will be along shortly with some helpful words! :P


Anyway, this doesn't sound great. What's the fluid level like?

It does sound like a replacement job though... :( but hopefully some of the others will have some ideas to try first.

[Davezj]

Hi there i had a similar issue, but mine was a drive shaft stripping its splines on the inner joint to the gear box. sounded really bad grinding and jurking but it was a relativly simple drive shaft change.

jack up the front of the car and see if the front wheel will spin without the internal end driveshaft end spinning. you will see what i mean when you jack it up. it is worth checking before you splash out on a gearbox.

[bradc]

I'd check the fluid level first (and colour)

If that is ok I would check every electrical connection and run a fault code test on it.

If that is all ok, I'd drop the sump and be prepared for a few big pieces of metal to come out.

[PaddyB]

Check fluid, fault codes & what ^they^ said.

Hopde it's a cheap n easy fix

[Piers1989]

Checked for fault codes, there were none on any system for the car.

As for the fluid............

My ATF dipstick (that i requested a new one on here and NOBODY REPLIED :@) snapped off when i tried to check it so now in the pipe there is a snapped off ATK distick end which will be hell to remove for the garage i assume, however the fluid was only changed when the T/C seal was changed and ive checked it once since then and was okay and hasnt been leaking at all.

We towed the car with the engine running to keep fluid pumping around the gears to the garage (3 miles) in nuetral, and there was no crunching or bad sounds of any kind, and the speedo also worked, meaning i assume that at least part of the gearbox and drivesystem is working corectly.

[Turbo_Steve]

Dipstick will be in the bottom of the Sump, dude.
Nobody probably replied because nobody has one? Did you entitle your thread "WTB: ATF dipstick"?

It SOUNDS like it may have stripped the teeth off the input shaft. This, unfortunately, will be expensive. It depends how bad the grinding was, really.

Firstly, you need to get a gander of that gearbox fluid, so perhaps draining a little out to examine it would be a good idea.....or possibly draining all of it to check for metal. It can go straight back in if it's in good nick. If it's full of metal or brown it will need a change anyway.

Possibly sticking a fresh load of fluid in will work.

[Piers1989]

Dipstick will be in the bottom of the Sump, dude.
Nobody probably replied because nobody has one? Did you entitle your thread "WTB: ATF dipstick"?

It SOUNDS like it may have stripped the teeth off the input shaft. This, unfortunately, will be expensive. It depends how bad the grinding was, really.

Firstly, you need to get a gander of that gearbox fluid, so perhaps draining a little out to examine it would be a good idea.....or possibly draining all of it to check for metal. It can go straight back in if it's in good nick. If it's full of metal or brown it will need a change anyway.

Possibly sticking a fresh load of fluid in will work.

Lol, about the WTB: ATF dipstick, i did make a thread with that or a very similar title, im not really angry about that as it wouldnt have changed this, I know there is plenty of fluid in there and it was changed less than a month and less than 1000 miles ago.

After the noise and semi engaging of gears i really dont think replacing the fluid is going to fix this. The cars at the garage now and booked in for monday.

The Crunching was very loud and not a good sound at all.

If I have stripped teeth off the input shaft (i assume this is where the drive is transfered from the engine into the gearbox) what is required to fix?

A complete new gearbox or jsut an input shaft + whatever the teeth lock with?

[PaddyB]

Got to ask - how have you cared for your VR4 ?? Maintenance, racing, dragging, etc. Just wondering what can make these cars fail, not suggesting any neglect.

Hope it's a cheap fix - get em to check for your boost leak also ;-)

[Piers1989]

Got to ask - how have you cared for your VR4 ?? Maintenance, racing, dragging, etc. Just wondering what can make these cars fail, not suggesting any neglect.

Hope it's a cheap fix - get em to check for your boost leak also ;-)

Since i got it 2 months ago ive had it fully services, engine + atf changed twice, new cambelt and full AYC/diff flush and new Torque converter seal. Have done some hard driving around with 1 of my friends but nothing bad for the car, I always leave it in drive so i dont over rev etc. Its never been on a track or drag raced etc.

The only non-standard thing I really do with it is powerslide occasionally on grass / in the wet. =/

Overall I take very good car of my cars, my celica I had for 1 year and put 40k miles on it, it left me with a total of around 210k miles on it and id had it serviced 6 times and never had a problem apart form new disks and 1 new caliper on it.

About teh boost leak, thats what its booked in for checking, it jsut happoened to break today while i was driving. As teh warranty cover should pay for it im kinda hoping it is the gearbox/something expensive that has a tendancy to fail so resale value is increased.

EDIT: Also, i havent got round to installing the boost controller, and as such the car is unmodified.

[pitslayer]

What fluid did you put in the gearbox?

[Piers1989]

What fluid did you put in the gearbox?

I didnt, the garage did everything, but i gave them the guides form our article section so they know it needs sp III.

[PaddyB]

Since i got it 2 months ago ive had it fully services, engine + atf changed twice, new cambelt and full AYC/diff flush and new Torque converter seal. Have done some hard driving around with 1 of my friends but nothing bad for the car, I always leave it in drive so i dont over rev etc. Its never been on a track or drag raced etc.

Twice, in 2 months..... why ??? What are you servicing it with ?? It sounds well cared for by you (any history with it when you bought it??).

I can understand the '1 of my friends bit' - by myself I'm fairly chill but can't help myself when a passenger says "so is it fast??"


The only non-standard thing I really do with it is powerslide occasionally on grass / in the wet. =/
I just understeer :sad3:


Overall I take very good car of my cars, my celica I had for 1 year and put 40k miles on it, it left me with a total of around 210k miles on it and id had it serviced 6 times and never had a problem apart form new disks and 1 new caliper on it.

About teh boost leak, thats what its booked in for checking, it jsut happoened to break today while i was driving. As teh warranty cover should pay for it im kinda hoping it is the gearbox/something expensive that has a tendancy to fail so resale value is increased.

EDIT: Also, i havent got round to installing the boost controller, and as such the car is unmodified.

Hope the warranty thing coughs up. Who does yours ?? Some firms have rung me up this last couple of weeks (as I've been online & on phone getting insurance quotes) offering me warranty only to say "oh it's over 10 yrs old - we can;t do it". They should do their research grrrrr.

Fingers crossed for you

[Piers1989]

Twice, in 2 months..... why ??? What are you servicing it with ?? It sounds well cared for by you (any history with it when you bought it??).

I can understand the '1 of my friends bit' - by myself I'm fairly chill but can't help myself when a passenger says "so is it fast??"


I just understeer :sad3:



Hope the warranty thing coughs up. Who does yours ?? Some firms have rung me up this last couple of weeks (as I've been online & on phone getting insurance quotes) offering me warranty only to say "oh it's over 10 yrs old - we can;t do it". They should do their research grrrrr.

Fingers crossed for you


My warranty is from www.warrantydirect.co.uk They take cars up to 13 years old and 130k miles.

Its been serviced twice in 2 months as it was serviced and then had the T/C seal done which required reflushing the ATF and i had teh engine done at the same time, and a new cambelt and the plugs and diff / ayc fluids were all done with the TC seal. Also in that time ive probably done more than a total of more than 4.5k miles (i drive a LOT), and tend to be quite right footted :P

My friend isnt always a passanger, he drives a audi S3 and we rag around alot together.

If you steer and plant your foot in the wet or on grass/ gravel you car shifts power to the back and you get alot of 4 wheel driftage with slight oversteer ;)

Also full service history but all in japaneese as it was imported 3 months before i bought it. Wasnt sure if the cambelt had been done and decided to change it jsut incase.

[bradc]

What fluid did they actually put in? Just because you gave them some docs saying something doesn't mean they followed you.

[PaddyB]

Tried that there website - won't do mine as it's over 10 y.o.

[Piers1989]

I dont no what they actually put in, but i wouldn't expect them to jsut go ahread and put some crap in after being told it needs something else.

If you ring them, or look on the securecare or majorcare plans they take upto 13 years.

[Turbo_Steve]

Piers, I'd definitely check what they ACTUALLY put in.....I doubt a jobbing mechanic is likely to read info from a car club about which highly expensive fluid they think he needs to go and buy when he's been putting his favourite ATF into other gearboxes for years without any issues and has a 10 gallon tub of it with a pump hose on the end of it ready to use.

I may be doing them a disservice, but I believe there are certain, immutable parts of human nature that take a significant degree of knowledge or expense to change, and laziness in the face of zero profit is one of them!

[pitslayer]

£100+ plus waiting for good oil to come in Vs 50 litre drum of dexron III out the back with a pump on it. If I was a lazy mechanic I know what I would be doing, probably filled your gearbox with dexron..

Even then I would be suprised if they did a full flush or wether they just dropped the sump let the oil out and refill, so you would have perhaps good ATF fluid mixing with bad Dexron


Could be new gearbox time

[Piers1989]

£100+ plus waiting for good oil to come in Vs 50 litre drum of dexron III out the back with a pump on it. If I was a lazy mechanic I know what I would be doing, probably filled your gearbox with dexron..

Even then I would be suprised if they did a full flush or wether they just dropped the sump let the oil out and refill, so you would have perhaps good ATF fluid mixing with bad Dexron


Could be new gearbox time

They had to disassemble the gearbox for the torque converter so it ws completely flushed before they replaced it. they had the car several days so would have had time to order the oil. i showed them what was required to be done from the article on here and we agreed a set unit price before the work began.

The garage is an audi performance and tuning specialist, and i know from my friend having an s3 and the owner owning rs6 and s4 and a 800bhp quattro he uses for hill climbs, that theyre used to using specialist lubricants in engines and gearboxes. I would be very suprised if after i gave them the article and specifically circled the fluids required they didnt put it in. I even showed it to the tuning guy who works at reception who looked at the list and said yes we have all of those so we shouldnt have to wait for any to be delivered.

If the warranty pays out it doesnt matter, and if they did put dextron 3 in it would invalidate the warranty. Its the same garage whos dealing with the warranty anyway, but i wont bring fluids up unless they reject the claim. If they do and i find they used dextron 3 then they are responsible for the box eating itself (providing it is something that could feasibly have been damaged as a fesult of lack of lubrication/temperature).

[Davezj]

I wish you luck with all this work you are having done.

just make sure you establish who is paying for what before you get started with the work, as this sounds expensive.

you don't want to get part way through and then find out the warrenty is not covering it, and the garage takes now responsibility for the damage either, and it is you that is left massively out of pocket and still with a broken car.

Call me untrusting or paranoid, but before all the ATF gets drained out of the box. take 2 sample of the Oil so it can be sent away for analysis at a later date . Get the garage to sign a certificate to say it is a representative sample of what was in the box at the time of the damage and seal it up, on efor you and one for the garage. i am sure Don (Amsoil) can get it analysed for you, at a cost.

[Piers1989]

Saw the garage today on my way to IMAX to see transformers, They have drained the sump and out came alot of metal ground up shards, the remainders of teeth and internals.

They're going to talk to the warranty comany on monday but have diagnosed it as needing a replacement box.

[HPRULZ]

They had to disassemble the gearbox for the torque converter
Hmm perhaps now we are getting somewhere

[Piers1989]

Hmm perhaps now we are getting somewhere

When they did this they simply removed the box, split down the middle, changed seal and replaced, and its been fine for a good month or so since.

They didnt "dissasemble" the box as i put it that time, they didnt even remove and gearbox components other than the seal.