4th and 5th gear shudder

[oldgit9]

unfortunately my vr-4 has developed the dreaded 4th and 5th gear shudder. and after reading some threads on here, i decided to get the oil changed.

personally i would have like to have done it myself, but due to lack of tools and facilities, i decided to get it professionally done in my local jap tuning garage which was recommended to me by a member. it's called "AP Motors" in plyomuth. after a quick chat to AP Motors, they said that they would do it for me and it would cost £150 odd + vat. but as soon as i mentioned that i was a member of Club vr-4, the price went down to £130 + vat. thanks to the club discount :)

any road....got the car back a few hours later and all was well...it felt a lot smoother than before...but when i was driving back up to portsmouth on sunday, the shudder was still there in 4th and 5th gears around the 40-50mph mark. and what is concerning me even more, the shudder has now migrated to 60mph in 5th...im not exactly sure what oil was used, but they did say that they would only use the same oil as the manufacturer. now im not blaming AP Motors for this...but could the new oil be to blame??? if so, where can i get hold of some amsoil in the portsmouth or plymouth area??? and i will have to do it myself somehow :(

[Nutter_John]

Oldfart :D

that price is far too chaep , to do a full flush with AMSOIL ATF it uses around 12-13 litres at a price of around £10 per litre

Give AP a ring and let them know the issue is still there and ask if they did the full flush or not

If they did do the full flush then the only other thing i can think of is that maybe you TC seal is going :D

[Spirit]

They wouldn't have used Amsoil though John.

[Nutter_John]

They wouldn't have used Amsoil though John.

bunch of cowboys then :P


If they have not used AMSOIL then that price would have been a full flush

Oldgit you can order direct from AMSOIL on here go to his website performance oils limited is there trading name

[oldgit9]

thanks for the info guys.

i've just had a closer look at the invoice that i had from AP Motors. i've not had a chance to have a good old look at it until now...been really busy over the weekend :(

this is what i had done

1. carry out intrim service
2. carry out ayc fluid change
3. gear box oil check and top up
4. diff fluids
5. break inspetion

parts
oil filter
engine oil valvoline (what is a valvoline when it's at home???)
ayc fluids
gearbox oil
diff oils
cleaner


so yeah...just a quick flush through by the looks of it. i will have to wait until next month before i can even think of changing the oil to amsoil. don't get pait that much :( lol...but luckily, i've only got one big trip ahead of me until pay day. and thats just going down to plymouth and back to portsmouth (170ish each way)

i had a look on "Opie Oils" to see how much the amsoil oil is...and thanks to member rates, 2x5 litres only comes to £111. expect an order from me "oilman" ;)

[eyeballprawn]

From the invoice it doesn't look like they've done any flush. Doesn't even look like they drained the sump (which still leaves a heap of dirty oil in the system).

If that's all it the invoice says then they've probably not really done anything to the box, perhaps they may have slightly topped it up. But unless you had a leak or the level was incorrect before, then it wouldn't have needed topping up anyway.

It's all just a typical minor service. I've been caught with this before, if you have a specific problem you really need to make it clear that the car is there for one thing only, and to concentrate on getting that issue sorted as a priority. Otherwise they tend to overlook things and you end up having to take the car back again.

If your budget doesn't run to the Amsoil then you can use Mitsubishi SPIII and you shouldn't have any problems.

[elnevio]

This isn't a boggo local garage though. AP Motors should know what they're doing.

[eyeballprawn]

OK, well in that case it sounds like they would have done a thorough general service but you'd need to go back with your choice of ATF in hand and specify that you'd like the full flush done.

[vr4-fan]

I do a full flush , AND only need 6 quarts of amsoil atf , I dont understand why all you give 15 quartss???

and other question is , When I turn in an a bit closed corner , the diff sounds Rare , only in close corner , what you thinks its this¿¿??

[Ryan]

I do a full flush , AND only need 6 quarts of amsoil atf , I dont understand why all you give 15 quartss???

and other question is , When I turn in an a bit closed corner , the diff sounds Rare , only in close corner , what you thinks its this¿¿??

It sounds like you're not doing the flush properly and only replacing the oil from the AT.

There is still a lot of ATF in the torque converter and in all the feed pipes of the system that you need to get rid of.

[vr4-fan]

It sounds like you're not doing the flush properly and only replacing the oil from the AT.

There is still a lot of ATF in the torque converter and in all the feed pipes of the system that you need to get rid of.

:( :( :( how I CHANGE the oil to the torque converter :( I need how many quarts more??

[bradc]

You need 15 quarts and the article is in the members area

[vr4-fan]

wow!! that its increible , 15 quarts only for the torque converter :( :( , and 6 more for the gearbox , its too expensive 15 quarts :(

[Kitty's VR4]

No where near as expensive as a transmission rebuild because the car hasn't been maintained properly - VR4-fan.

[Ryan]

wow!! that its increible , 15 quarts only for the torque converter :( :( , and 6 more for the gearbox , its too expensive 15 quarts :(

No - it's 15 quarts total. As Kitty says, rebuilding is very expensive - I know, I've done it!

[AlanDITD]

Someone please shoot me

[Kitty's VR4]

:rifle: :rifle: :rifle:

[AlanDITD]

:rifle: :rifle: :rifle:

Thankyou

[Beastlee]

Gearbox shudder at 40-60mph could also be engine roll-stoppers. I just replaced mine and the worst of it has gone.

[vr4-fan]

wish aditive its good , for this gearbox??? To give maintenance to the stamps

[VR4WGN]

wish aditive its good , for this gearbox??? To give maintenance to the stamps

:stop: MEMBERS AREA!!!!!

[amsoil]

i had a look on "Opie Oils" to see how much the amsoil oil is...and thanks to member rates, 2x5 litres only comes to £111. expect an order from me "oilman" ;)

Our price is just under that when you work it out; We will always beat anyones price on our products. :smug:

[Nick Mann]

Heh! I was just going to post up that you're cheaper with our members discount, Don!

:D

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=174

[vr4-fan]

It sounds like you're not doing the flush properly and only replacing the oil from the AT.

There is still a lot of ATF in the torque converter and in all the feed pipes of the system that you need to get rid of.


that was my problem , I only change the gearbox oil , 6 quarts , and still shudder , less , but still shudder , the mecanic told me that for change the torque converter oil , I need change the gearbox too again , its thats true??? because the gearbox oil , They join , or only I need 6 more amsoil new , for the torque converter? thanks

[peter thomson]

Yes you need to do it all again

[Nutter_John]

Sorry VR-fan but you are asking for the same information over and over again

join the club to get access to the data
or
Stop fecking asking for the information on every post you make



£20 is not that much at all , infact it is around 1.5 litres of atf

[vr4-fan]

Sorry VR-fan but you are asking for the same information over and over again

join the club to get access to the data
or
Stop fecking asking for the information on every post you make



£20 is not that much at all , infact it is around 1.5 litres of atf


if you read slowly , you can see that its not the same questions dude :) :) thanks friend

[amsoil]

Without rubbing it in too much....... In the members area is a full step by step article by Keiran of the hows and whys of changing the ATF in full.
Unfortunately what has now happened is that the good new ATF has mixed with the burned old ATF to make a mix of wacked out mineral or semi and top line synthetic ATF. If you drain 1/2 again you will be removing effectively 1/2 the new ATF and 1/2 of the remaining burned ATF. You will still have ATF that is 1/4 burned / contaminated. Better than what you have at present but still not good. The juddering is symptomatic of the ECU getting confused and the clutches will be suffering as a result. This will give accelerated wear, additional heat which will make matters worse and a worsening gear change.
You need to do what the club experts say and change the lot again. Its quite straight forward if you follow K's article in the members section. To reiterate, the most cost effective thing any owner can do is to join the club.

[Davezj]

very nicely put Don, i would have been happy with that answer to the question. it contains all the information that is needed to progress in the correct direction from here.

[vr4-fan]

for the people have problem with shudder , this can help

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120390737459&_trksid=p2759.l1259

[elnevio]

I wouldn't recommend the use of friction modifiers in the INVECS-II gearbox, as the learning technology requires a certain amount of slip for the box to operate correctly. SP-III and Amsoil ATF meet this requirement perfectly, and adding such friction modifiers is potentially likely to cause MORE shudder, as the fuzzy logic is not encountering the friction it is expecting from the various plates, etc.

Amsoil's post above has already said it all, really. :)

[bradc]

That isn't the fix. Bad rep given

[vr4-fan]

I wouldn't recommend the use of friction modifiers in the INVECS-II gearbox, as the learning technology requires a certain amount of slip for the box to operate correctly. SP-III and Amsoil ATF meet this requirement perfectly, and adding such friction modifiers is potentially likely to cause MORE shudder, as the fuzzy logic is not encountering the friction it is expecting from the various plates, etc.

Amsoil's post above has already said it all, really. :)


I didnt know that :( :( I bought one for me car , !! firt I buy was this

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RED-LUBEGARD-TRANSMISSION-PARTS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZalgoQ3dSIQ26itsQ 3dIQ252BCQ26ituQ3dUCIQ252BUAQ252BFICSQ26otnQ3d15Q2 6poQ3dLVIQ26psQ3d54QQ_trksidZp3907Q2em263QQcategor yZ33727QQitemZ280371773974


And know the shudder fix , :( :(

[bradc]

Well If You Had Fvcking Checked Out The Members Area You Would Bloody Well Know That

[vr4-fan]

jajajjaja brad take it easy friends , my problem was , I only change de gearbox oil , and not the torque converter , for that the shudder still there , and how you know , I bought 6 quart of AMSOIL ATF , and buy again 14 QUARTS its too expensive, when I change that oil 2 week ago , you understand me? , I need recover , soo.... be patite , and help me

[vr4-fan]

and 4 more for the complete AYC flush , that broke me

[bradc]

Yes, you only changed that because you didn't pay for membership. There is an article that tells you EXACTLY WHAT TO DO IN THERE. It is your own fault. If you had listened to us in the first place you would have only needed about 10-11 quarts, and had a perfectly functioning gearbox with no shudder at all, and 100% brand new oil.

[vr4-fan]

I know brad its my fault , buat if you help me a lliitter I dont neeedd to buy 11 quarts know , for do again a full flush :( :( :( , with that money I can pay the memember ship, but know I cant :(

[amsoil]

Well I was 100% with Brad there and had never seen anyone with 2 'red dots'
Thought I would make it 3 but by the tme I have come back its down to 1 whats going on? Gave bad rep (a 1st for me) and its still at 1.

But back to the point is that the man still doesn't get the point; does he; do you?

[elnevio]

had never seen anyone with 2 'red dots'
Try this guy: http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37081 !

[amsoil]

LOL now that was worth the read!

[vr4-fan]

well , Already I m do not go to fill that shudder fix , but I am fill the lubegard protetanc already , this its ok , dont give me any problem right??? 2 daays and the car feel good


i am waiting know some money

1 , buy 12 quarts more of amsoil atf

2, membership on the club

3. pressure switch

[Subaru ETA]

if i was you, id put the poor car out of its misery and sell the bloody thing...buy a toyota corolla.

you cant aford to maintain the thing, you cant aford to join the club, and now you are complaining that you balls up the trans flush and is going to cost you even more....

ill give you some advise that you dont need to join the club for - stop driving it, save your pocket money, pay for the bloody membership and stop screwing up everything you touch on the poor car!!

[vr4-fan]

if i was you, id put the poor car out of its misery and sell the bloody thing...buy a toyota corolla.

you cant aford to maintain the thing, you cant aford to join the club, and now you are complaining that you balls up the trans flush and is going to cost you even more....

ill give you some advise that you dont need to join the club for - stop driving it, save your pocket money, pay for the bloody membership and stop screwing up everything you touch on the poor car!!


I look in all me post you **** me , please stop offend me , I dont offend you , please , if you going to give me a advise send me to me in PM , the 80% here they are nice , with me , but you always have a bad comentari , please ,ignore me dude , thanks , I dont live in a RICH contry that UK , ok , thanks

[vr4-fan]

I do all the maintain, only Only lacking me , the AYC , and again the gearbox , thanks,

[Subaru ETA]

im not giving you **** because you dont live in a rich country. you just need a wake up call! these cars are NOT CHEAP TO OWN! you obviously cant afford to own one, alot of people cant. if i wasnt a mechanic i probably couldnt justify the running expenses to the other half.
the difference is that the people who cant realise this and sell them! they dont hang around bludging for free info.

the sad truth is, if you dont pay the membership you are going to contine screwing things up and that my friend is going to cost you alot more then the membership fee!

[vr4-fan]

im not giving you **** because you dont live in a rich country. you just need a wake up call! these cars are NOT CHEAP TO OWN! you obviously cant afford to own one, alot of people cant. if i wasnt a mechanic i probably couldnt justify the running expenses to the other half.
the difference is that the people who cant realise this and sell them! they dont hang around bludging for free info.

the sad truth is, if you dont pay the membership you are going to contine screwing things up and that my friend is going to cost you alot more then the membership fee!


ok , know I respect your post , but I like me car , and I can afford the cost of maitenance , its just , I cannot pay for the membership 60 dollars, if with this money I can buy 7 quarts , of AMSOIL , you understand me dude??? repair it is a worse

Everything to his time , bro


just take it easy , and dont offend me , thanks

[Turbo_Steve]

But you could have saved the $60 buy buying amsoil through the club and by having NOT serviced your car incorrectly.

You KNOW you're breaking the rules, which is why several members have had 10-20 or even 30 PMs from you.

We're P1ssed at you because not ONCE have you said thank you, and even when we HAVE given out good advice, you seem keen not to listen or to argue or to try and find a cheaper solution.

It's not the money we're all worried about. It's your attitude: yuo insist on buying a bad VR4 cheaply, and then trying to fix it cheaply. That's not how these cars work: it's not some american V8 that can be abused.

If you bought a Ferrari and treated it this way, it would have caught fire by now.

[vr4-fan]

But you could have saved the $60 buy buying amsoil through the club and by having NOT serviced your car incorrectly.

You KNOW you're breaking the rules, which is why several members have had 10-20 or even 30 PMs from you.

We're P1ssed at you because not ONCE have you said thank you, and even when we HAVE given out good advice, you seem keen not to listen or to argue or to try and find a cheaper solution.

It's not the money we're all worried about. It's your attitude: yuo insist on buying a bad VR4 cheaply, and then trying to fix it cheaply. That's not how these cars work: it's not some american V8 that can be abused.

If you bought a Ferrari and treated it this way, it would have caught fire by now.


:( I was tinks you are my friend steve :( . and you know I always said thanks :(

[AlanDITD]

:( I was tinks you are my friend steve :( . and you know I always said thanks :(

Dude, my biggest qualm other than all the questions is the fact you dont even contribute anything to the club.

Not even links to funny jokes that make me think hell your annoying as fcuk but at least he makes me laugh.

Instead you remind me a small child with 20p in his pocket. Hmmm where do i spend it, sweets or comics.

Unfortunatey it seems you dont even have 20p

[vr4-fan]

Dude, my biggest qualm other than all the questions is the fact you dont even contribute anything to the club.

Not even links to funny jokes that make me think hell your annoying as fcuk but at least he makes me laugh.

Instead you remind me a small child with 20p in his pocket. Hmmm where do i spend it, sweets or comics.

Unfortunatey it seems you dont even have 20p


20 p , = 60 dolars here

[Turbo_Steve]

I was tinks you are my friend steve . and you know I always said thanks

In a total of 30 PMs you said Thanks 5 times. That's not a brilliant ratio....but TBH that's okay.

And you're confusing "Friendly" with "Friend". I'm friendly. I'm helpful.
At no point have I stopped being helpful, friendly, and reading your posts.
I am aware of at least 5 people who have you set on ignore, but I am sympathetic. You've got an expensive car that needs looking after, and I, like several other club members, are happy to help you.


Unfortunately, you have your priorities wrong. The information in this club has COST PEOPLE MONEY. You're paying a mechanic money. If he doesn't know something, perhaps you should try finding a mechanic who does! And see how much he costs.....I'm damn sure it's more than club membership costs in ANY country.

We're angry because you are trying to steal from us VR4 Fan. People have spent a lot of time and effort building up a repository of knowledge, and as such we all contribute towards the running costs of that knowledge: Internet hosting costs a lot of money, as does some of the translations etc. We're all doing this for free, all we're asking is that you put a small amount of money towards the cost of keeping that information online.

Or perhaps you'd like us to ban you?

No more Free info then! Believe me, there are members here who feel you are stealing, irritating and would gladly kick you off....permanently.

If you HADN'T had any help, your car would now need a new gearbox. Try getting one of those for 60 dollars.

Here's an analogy for what you're doing.

You're in a Bar, called "vr4".
Upstairs is "members only". To become a member, you pay a small fee.
Upstairs there are complimentary cigarettes and beer.
You are the man waiting at the bottom of the stairs saying "Can I have a free cigarette?"
"Can I have a free Cigarette?"
"Can I have a free Cigarette?"

How long before the doormen ask you to leave?
They are already looking at you and frowning.

[vr4-fan]

steve , what **** you talking about , you get member recently , jajajaajja and when you pay the membership , had 2000 post alredy ,please , dont get mad , but you are least indicated to protest ,


why ban me?¿?

I do not bother anybody, do not offend anybody, only I am quarrelling to do the things well

please , I I demand more respect , thanks friends , I am be very grateful with all, and many more with those who have helped me without asking for the membership

[peter thomson]

I avoid these kind of posts but I'm afraid respect is earned and not demanded and I will no longer reply to any posts from you.

[bradc]

Here's an analogy for what you're doing.

You're in a Bar, called "vr4".
Upstairs is "members only". To become a member, you pay a small fee.
Upstairs there are complimentary cigarettes and beer.
You are the man waiting at the bottom of the stairs saying "Can I have a free cigarette?"
"Can I have a free Cigarette?"
"Can I have a free Cigarette?"

How long before the doormen ask you to leave?
They are already looking at you and frowning.




vr4-fan - do you understand what Steve is saying here?

[vr4-fan]

vr4-fan - do you understand what Steve is saying here?


not :(


I send you a PM check

[Davezj]

where can i get 7 quart of AMSoil ATF for $60 i want some of that it's dirt cheap.

[vr4-fan]

www.amsoil.com

[Davezj]

That is cheap!

i would have to find out what the shipping cost would be, but it is $9.75 per quart.

i am not sure the ATF you have linked to is the correct type, that is the low viscosity type (blue top) and i think we need the universal atf type RED top as it specifies it is campatable with the SPIII requirement. the low viscosity stuff does not say this. but Don will put my right on this.

question for Don can we use the torque drive fluid in the VR4 box or not. would it make the shifts very rough and snappy rather than the silky smooth shift we all know and love (when they are working right). would it possibly sort out some slippage if we had that.

[elnevio]

I have PMed vr4-fan summarising what he needs to do. I believe the members have made their feelings very well known now. To continue to do so is now going to benefit no-one, and could even be detrimental to the club forums instead, if it continues.

Some members are already ignoring posts they find antagonising, and this is their prerogative.

What I do think is a positive reflection on the Club is that there have been no abusive comments, although they have been becoming more and more exasperated. There are numerous car forums where this would have been a nasty flame-war a long time ago. It shows us that CVR4 members are usually a mature lot. I also think that when vr4-fan does join up as a full member, he will be warmly welcomed as one. :iloveyou:


PS: Apologies to the OP of this thread, but it'll now be closed.