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VR4WGN
07-07-2009, 07:49 AM
:bulb: hey Guys well this is the ECU out of the Beast that gave me my awsum exhaust.
but i want to know if it is better than my PFL one i have now and if its worth installing.

i dont know what to look for so heres some pics i hope someone would like to let me know please
~Q~

Ryan
07-07-2009, 07:54 AM
If the car that it's going into is:

* stock*
* a PFL auto

Then yes, it will make a difference as it did in my experience:

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30754&highlight=2002+1996

It's also flashable.

elnevio
07-07-2009, 07:55 AM
It's the flashable ECU! :thumbsup:

Davezj
07-07-2009, 07:56 AM
that is a that part number ECU was fitted in prefaclift manual (not sure if they were plastic case ones thought bbut part number is the same) and facelift autos and manuals up to about 2001. and yes it has the MH7202 processor so is potentially flasable.

hope this helps.

VR4WGN
07-07-2009, 07:57 AM
wow alot of info,thanx,the car was a manual black 2001 vr4 sedan(plastic case tho),um im wanting to upgrade my ecu sysatem and so on so is it in my best interest to keep this or not? i have a few others too and is pointless if theyr the same

Davezj
07-07-2009, 07:59 AM
true, i am sure there is someone out there that wants to play with one of these.

shame you are in new zealand i would have bought it off you to have a play.

Ryan
07-07-2009, 08:01 AM
Q in my experience with swapping ECU's, the post 7201 series learn quicker and offer better performance and fuel economy than the 7201.

VR4WGN
07-07-2009, 08:06 AM
true, i am sure there is someone out there that wants to play with one of these.

shame you are in new zealand i would have bought it off you to have a play.
shipping will be cheap mate,i dont mind shipping lol,..hint hint!!!!

orionn2o
07-07-2009, 08:06 AM
Yes if you had been in the UK and had it for sale I would have bought it straight away"!

Oh wait, hold on its a manual one isn't it... :(

peter thomson
07-07-2009, 08:10 AM
The manual one we have worked fine in my auto so I don't think there will be a problem fitting that ecu

Ryan
07-07-2009, 08:18 AM
^ Agreed - manual and auto ECUs worked fine in my car.

Turbo_Steve
07-07-2009, 08:33 AM
Q - what are you fitting instead? Piggyback? Standalone?

orionn2o
07-07-2009, 09:12 AM
The manual one we have worked fine in my auto so I don't think there will be a problem fitting that ecu

Do you still have that Peter?

Sorry I didn't realise that they were interchangeable!

VR4WGN
07-07-2009, 09:35 AM
dont know,looking for help on that subject ay,um also guys i have n auto facelift 1 aswell if your interested too,and the tranny ecu too

AderC
07-07-2009, 12:48 PM
Any metal-case ECU's are unlikely to be flashable. If you open up any plastic-cased ones you're looking for the MH7202F chip as in the bottom 2 pics. Have you checked what ECU you've actually got in your car? If you've a 98 prefacelift there's a chance you have the flashable 7202 processor already. The 7203 in the later facelifts isn't flashable yet (it's supposed to be but there appears to be a software glitch at the mo).

Not really much point spending a fortune on a piggyback or standalone ECU when you can tune the 7202 with a laptop, Openport 2.0 cable and ECUFlash software.

Turbo_Steve
07-07-2009, 04:02 PM
Not really much point spending a fortune on a piggyback or standalone ECU when you can tune the 7202 with a laptop, Openport 2.0 cable and ECUFlash software.

Agree with that: if you're just going to build the car to a specific level and stop, then a flashable Factory ECU (like the one above) is perfect for you. For now you have to keep the factory MAF, which is a potential power limitation, but other than that: Why pay more?


However:
If you're going to KEEP changing the car, bolting on different bits to show them off, changing this, changing that, then continually mapping the factory ECU will become tiresome. If this is the route you plan to take, then there is no substitute for a standalone. It's the most expensive to fit, and takes the longest to get working the first time. However, after that, even big changes can be made quickly and easily. It's the easiest to get "Big power" out of too, but trust me, you're gonna pay big money for it. Just ask Brad how much his autronic cost. If you car is an auto, you will probably need to retain a factory ECU to talk to the Gearbox computer (TCU). Standlones let you completely ditch the MAF, and change any sensor, injector, idle control to anything you like. They also allow features like additional injectors, NOS control, Antilag, water injection control, automatic knock correction, and fuel selection based on a dash switch (so you can simply fill up with race fuel and switch to the faster map. Or you can have a 2nd fuel tank full of race fuel and switch over all at the push of a button)

The cheaper alternative to this is the piggyback. These are a perfectly workable solution, and can be tuned to any power output you like: the more you pay, the easier they are to tune. The problem with them is that they generally take longer to map, as to some extent you're compensating for things the factory ECU is doing. If you have an intimate knowledge of the factory Maps, it's generally not too much of an obstacle, but things like changing injectors can make a big difference, and end up with a fair bit of tweaking to get the full benefit.

Final word on the topic is driveability. To some extent, this is dependant on who does the mapping. But broadly speaking, the easiest setup to keep driveable is the factory ECU: once it's fully understood, the results are usually as good as factory or better, and the car is lovely to drive.

The standalone can take a bit of "finessing" for things like idle, cold start, aircon compensation and fan compensation, as well as configuring fan start/stop times, injector timings etc to get it just perfect. A good mapper will make a standalone drive just as well, if not better, than standard.

Piggybacks seem to suffer slightly here: if your engine is extensively modified, it can take quite a bit of time to get a piggyback to drive as nicely. Something expensive like an EMU is virtually a standalone, so with a lot of patience and a decent mapper you will still get comprarable results. With a cheap piggyback, and more extensive modification, the lack of adjustability can result in difficulties keeping things refined.

peter thomson
07-07-2009, 06:29 PM
Yes :whistle:


Do you still have that Peter?

Sorry I didn't realise that they were interchangeable!

starky
07-07-2009, 09:01 PM
also don't the PFL autos run 260bhp and the Fl autos run 280bhp?
so upgrading would give an instant bhp gain.

peter thomson
07-07-2009, 09:13 PM
That's not exactly true as the auto box ecu also has an effect on the boost level


also don't the PFL autos run 260bhp and the Fl autos run 280bhp?
so upgrading would give an instant bhp gain.

starky
07-07-2009, 10:14 PM
Ah right just something I read somewhere :)


That's not exactly true as the auto box ecu also has an effect on the boost level

VR4WGN
08-07-2009, 01:45 AM
wow alot to swallow,well then i take it its best for me to just keep a flashable ECU and then upgrade things like injectors,coilpacks?,etc...
but im left with a problem still.. boost cut!! i want to be able to drive the car if the boost is cranked up and not have it starve/cough or evry 2-3 seconds in acceleration at any range

VR4WGN
08-07-2009, 01:46 AM
and also is it maby worth my while hanging onto the 7203 as im a while away from wanting to tweak with ecus?

VR4WGN
08-07-2009, 01:48 AM
i have 7201fs 7202,7203,7203f,and the steel case 1 in my manual leggy wich will prob be a 7201 as you say

bradc
08-07-2009, 01:49 AM
I'd keep the 7202's

VR4WGN
08-07-2009, 01:51 AM
but i only need 1 correct?,if i swapped my current 1 for a 7202 now would i really notice any difference?

bradc
08-07-2009, 02:06 AM
from a metal to a plastic case you possibly would notice a bit better fuel economy

VR4WGN
08-07-2009, 02:23 AM
ok im swapping then this week then lol

AderC
08-07-2009, 07:56 PM
wow alot to swallow,well then i take it its best for me to just keep a flashable ECU and then upgrade things like injectors,coilpacks?,etc...
but im left with a problem still.. boost cut!! i want to be able to drive the car if the boost is cranked up and not have it starve/cough or evry 2-3 seconds in acceleration at any range

Boost cut limit is one of the maps that can be tweaked if you have the 7202. It's not recommended to remove it completely but the limits can be tweaked up a touch.

Turbo_Steve
08-07-2009, 08:20 PM
Would suggest that if a complete map is being developed, then it may as well be raised to just below the maximum load point? Presumably this is the max flow the MAF can measure?

VR4WGN
08-07-2009, 09:14 PM
ohh im excited now lol,who wil flash the ecu for me lol??

Kenneth
08-07-2009, 10:16 PM
No, it is merely the maximum load point mapped in the ECU.

The MAF has plenty more in it.



Would suggest that if a complete map is being developed, then it may as well be raised to just below the maximum load point? Presumably this is the max flow the MAF can measure?

Turbo_Steve
08-07-2009, 10:24 PM
Are you sure Kenneth? Normally the maximum load point mapped is the highest point on the MAF scale? Unless the MAF scale has been unlocked, anyway.....
Admittedly, the MAF scale usually has a fair bit of space on it as they get less accurate towards the extreme, but generally the load tables themselves have some "headroom"....though there wasn't much in the downloaded ROM images, it's true.

Kenneth
08-07-2009, 11:08 PM
Yes, I am sure. I believe the MAF reaches its limit around the 3200Hz mark.

A moderately modified VR-4 with standard intake system (but panel filter) gets around 1400Hz. (Ryans car, as per their recent logging)

Don't forget that the Karman Vortex air flow meter is essentially mechanical in that it uses pressure fluctuations to flutter a mirror or similar to generate light pulses.
That frequency is proportional to the air speed past the sensor, which in turn is a function of the flow area. As such, the only way to "tune" it is to use a different sized chamber. Hence the adjustment screw at the bottom.

Much easier and cheaper to make one sensor which can be used on all vehicles.

bradc
09-07-2009, 12:33 AM
I was going to ask that but forgot, what is the max Hz that anyone has seen in evoscan? On Ryan's it peaked above 1400 a few times but there were about a hundred readings between 1350 and 1400

Turbo_Steve
09-07-2009, 09:00 AM
Yes, I am sure. I believe the MAF reaches its limit around the 3200Hz mark.

A moderately modified VR-4 with standard intake system (but panel filter) gets around 1400Hz. (Ryans car, as per their recent logging)

Don't forget that the Karman Vortex air flow meter is essentially mechanical in that it uses pressure fluctuations to flutter a mirror or similar to generate light pulses.
That frequency is proportional to the air speed past the sensor, which in turn is a function of the flow area. As such, the only way to "tune" it is to use a different sized chamber. Hence the adjustment screw at the bottom.

Much easier and cheaper to make one sensor which can be used on all vehicles.

Very true: I was rather thinking in "hot wire" terms.
The issue would still be the scaling table, presumably...and the resolution of the frequency counter on the ECU input, though I doubt this is a constraint at this stage.

If the max frequency we've seen is under 1500Hz, presumably the max load row is set around here somewhere...... but at least that's just software :D

The only physical problem will be that presumably at a specific flow rate the accuracy of the sensor itself comes into question...but as you say if we're only seeing 1500Hz or so we'll need at least a pair of GT40Rs to get there :D :D