Should have come here first... ST-R shudder

[birdy]

yeah yeah - I know. But my full membership expired and I'm too busy too remember to do lots of things.

Anyway - just after some advise, I've got the dreaded shudder in my ST-R seems to be in 4th around 3000rpm on acceleration. Button off and it dissappears. The kids in the back keep telling me that "the car is shakin dad"..

I'm allergic to all things car mechanical, so I rang my mechanic and asked him to do a flush (which he couldn't/wouldn't do) and he suggested I go down to Integrity Automatics here in Dunedin. They listened to what I said was the problem and then said that it would need a flush, and that they would put a product in called shudder fixx that should sort it out. Then I was to drive it for about 100km's and 95% of the time the problem will be sorted, and if it wasn't - then I'd have a $1300 repair on my hands for the Torque Converter.

So they did it the other day - and this is the report from invoice:

Connect cooler lines to flush machine, carry out flush procedure until fluid comes clean, reconnect cooler lines, replace filter is needed. Check trans fuild and top up if needed, test drive, ok.
Parts:
Filter external @ 14.32
Shudder Fixx @ 22.32
Trans Fluid 9.5 ltr @ 12.95 ltr
labour @ $65

So - I've driven about 150kms, and it shifts great, but the shudder is still there (wife thinks it seems better - but I don't) my teeth are rattling, and I don't need a chiropractor now the car has done the adjustments for me ;)

Appreciate your advice on a couple things.


Once the flush is done - should it fix the shudder immediately, or does it take a while for the locking to stop.
How much is SP3 fluid worth in NZ? Did they just do it on the cheap, should it have cost me more than $250 incl gst to have this done?
Have I just been ripped off? If they just put crap fluid's through - then they get a nice big job to "rebuild" (their words not mine) the torque converter.
Is it still OK to drive with the shudder, we have a snowboard/ski trip coming up in a week (about 500km round trip) is it tempting fate to drive the leggy?


hey - appreciate the advise, gotta ring them on Monday and try and sound like I know what I am talking about...

thanks
birdy

[birdy]

hmmmm - I just saw this thread http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41082 and it's kind of the same issue - shudder under load. I wonder if I'm barking up the wrong tree here - and all it needs is a wheel balancing or alignment.

heh - and here I was thinking that I was just sexually frustrated!

[AlanDITD]

I don think your meant to add any addatives to the Gearbox tbh. Its very fussy. As for price someone from NZ would need to confirm that.

[bradc]

What fluid did they use? Was it dexron III? If so then they are muppets and you should demand your money back, or get them to use SP3 and to do the work for free.

[birdy]

Wife dropped off the car and picked it up, so I didn't get to talk to them. The way they talked on the phone it seemed like they were on to it... but 13 bucks a litre seems too cheap to me. What would SP3 cost up in AKL Brad?

I should have stayed in Auckland - at least there, my mechanic was someone that I could trust... here in Dunedin I know no-one!

[bradc]

I would simply check and find out from them what fluid they used. I don't know how much sp3 costs off the top of my head sorry!

[Ryan]

From memory with Matt, SP3 is not expensive, less than $100 for 5L (this was last year though).

[VR4WGN]

um if its from a mitsi delaer you should get bout $13-15 per litre i think,i pay $11 but bulk tho..um the flush id think would cost $200 on its own as they use alot of fluid to do these flushes man,but ida thort the shudder might be clutch packs due to poor oil or dirty oil thats lost its properties?? correct me if im wrong please Brad...

[bradc]

It could be that the clutch packs in the box are on their way out, but I'm guessing they put the wrong oil into the car if they thought they needed to use an additive.

[Subaru ETA]

the str trans isnt as fussy as the vr4 one - its not INVECS and is 4 speed. it could be drive shat UJ's?

[crazydriver81]

You are wrong, the 25 ST-R has an Invecs II gearbox with tip, although it is 4gear.

Sounds that you will have to get your gearbox flushed again. Be sure, that they have used Mitsi Diaqueen SP3 oil (or compatible). Anything else WILL KILL your gearbox. Have done that last year, before becoming a member here...

Oil: SP3 or compatible (I have Amsoil ATF in there and no shudder anymore)
qty: around 9 litres for a full flush

cheers
Stefan

[VR4WGN]

are you sure? as i know they dont run their own ECU like the 5speed tiptronics do,just a straight ecu for engine managment

[birdy]

Thanks guys - I spent most of last night stewing about it (didn't get much sleep, although the Warriors didn't help either) - I'll give them a call Monday and check what fluid was put in.

Should I be driving it with the shudder? I have an old Mitsi L200 d/c ute that might be getting a drive to the ski-fields this weekend, that'll be sure to impress the locals..

thanks
birdy

[Ryan]

I reckon the Warriors should change their name to Worriers :p

[VR4WGN]

/bananaroc
I reckon the Warriors should change their name to Worriers :p

[birdy]

Just been across town at 60km/hr and starting to feel a slight shudder there too

not happy.

[Stevo]

did you say you were in dunedin???

my ST-R destroyed its planetry gears in it a few weeks ago and i took it to KG McLeod's in waverly dunedin

they did a very good job and quoted me $900 for a torque converter replacement as well, that is what i thought i had blown in the first place ;)

tell them Stephen with the multi coloured legnum and the rim swap issue sent ya and you should looked after well

they replaced my ATF with a fully synthetic penrite product i cant nam,e which sorry but he garunteed me that it met sp-III when i checked with him

[crazydriver81]

regarding the autobox in an ST-R -> it is definitively an invecs II gearbox

The switch circuit is integrated in the engine ecu on an ST-R. A VR-4 has two separate ecu's for A/T and engine...

[VR4WGN]

sweet thanx for that info Crazy....

[birdy]

Well - they used dexron III, and swear by it. Didn't want to listen when I told them that they have used the wrong stuff - basically said that they do this job all the time etc etc etc...

Wife is taking the car down there so that they can test drive it on the open road.

Dunno what to do - they claim expertise, I tell them they should have used something else, they claim expertise.

It's like being on a rollercoaster, and the guy at the bottom has stopped it when you are at the top - and demands money to get you down, but there is a ladder that you can use - but you aren't allowed to.......

[bradc]

I'd get them to drive it and confirm the shudder is there. I would then get them to use SP3 and see if it fixes the shudder. If it does, don't pay for it. If it doesn't fix it, well there is something else wrong with your box and it would be fair if you pay for the SP3. Tell them that and see if they are reasonable about it.

[amsoil]

The shudde is there as the Dex 3 dioes not have the correct co efficient of friction throughout the temperature range. When it slips it burns and breaks (which is why it doesn't last so very long)The burned fluid further exaperates the problem + it leaves localised deposites on the plates. Which of course further exaperates causing more slipage, juddering and localised burning. and so on getting worse until you or the box gives up. Sounds like this box has not had the best of fluids for some time.
Put in Amsoil. I know I'm a dealer but I cannot sell to you being on the other side of the planet. The Amsoil ATF is a detergent based fluid which not only is or to be correct exceeds the SPII/III spec but wiull clean up the crap you now have on the plates and make you believe in your car again ; and the ECU believe it can control the tranny too. Very simple solution which cure all the cars ills and the excesses of funds you have in your bank account.

[VR4WGN]

i think wht brad said is a Very fair deal and WILL (if fluid is the prob)prove their expertise level lol,well worth the shame if it is

[birdy]

Thanks team - for all your advice...

Car fixed - drives like a dream.. again. They took it for a drive and came to the conclusion that it was either CV joints or axles - or something down there.

They kept it for the day - replacing bits - ended up replacing both axles, problem fixed.

I think my definition of a shudder is different to other definitions - maybe my shudder was really a "shaken like a giant ripple strip" ;)

He thought that because it is all connected - that is why it "felt" gearboxy - it certainly felt that way for me...

So - lesson learnt, get them to actually take it for a bloody big drive before you blow hundreds of dollars on something that might not have needed blown on.

cheers
birdy

[scott.mohekey]

Interesting. I have a similar shudder which I'm having trouble locating. Axles/CVs are about the only thing I haven't tried yet.

Good to hear its all fixed though!

[VR4WGN]

i bet they DID change the fluid tho...

[crazydriver81]

...me too! :D

[John TheAntique]

Just as a matter of interest did they give you back the worn/broken axles ??

[birdy]

lol - nope :) Why do mechanics "always" dispose of the faulty parts?? It just makes it look really dodgy.. I don't get home till dark - so haven't been able to lift the car to check what they have done, but I might do it this weekend whilst on holiday.

Small plug here - bookabach.co.nz got a house in Cromwell for $65 a night, Cardrona Saturday and Remark's Sunday - woohoo! And - The Winter Games are on!!!

:)

[Subaru ETA]

yeah used that site before - bloody brilliant!