That old chestnut

[lorriman]

Sorry to fill the forum up with problems and especially one that I've had feedback on before, but the might of Mitsubishi hasn't solved it and I'm at my wit's end. It's a simple problem and I can't believe it's so difficult to solve.

At 60 and above I get a fierce pulsing vibration mainly from the front (felt through the steering and in my legs). The faster you go the worse it gets.

The pulse is at about a 3-4 second interval and it makes the airbag rattle. It makes the whole driving experience extremely uncomfortable for me and my passengers.

I've had new wheels and tyres, a new offside driveshaft, donor wheels, then new tyres separately, had the locking wheelnuts removed, tyre pressures tweaked. Have knocked it out of drive and coasted, tracking checked and adjusted. None of which makes an iota of difference.

No one has taken the suspension apart or attended to the lower balljoint recall yet, so I suppose something could be loose somewhere (it feels like it), but everyone dismisses this without even looking. It seems as if holding the wheel and trying to move it is a good enough check.

Any ideas at all would be gratefully received.

[Kieran]

One thing not listed is wheel bearings. Perhaps there's a bit of 'play' in one of them?

[lorriman]

Thanks Kieran

I'll add it to the list.

[Roadrunner]

Outside shot, but also have a look at the propshaft. If your car has been undersealed, for example, you could have a large lump of underseal on the shaft that puts it out of balance.

[lorriman]

Interesting suggestion. Thanks. That's one I could see for myself. Cheers

[ritch_w]

has your car been for the ball joint recall?? (mines going in on the 12th)

[The Vee]

On Kieran's theme of wheel bearing, worth checking out as it could have been damaged in the "pot hole" incident. Did the rear wheel go through it as well?

[Roadrunner]

fierce pulsing vibration
Thinking about this a bit more :headsc: ... it may be harmonic resonance. Everything has a resonant frequency and, occasionally, when the resonant frequencies of two or more noises (e.g. the sound from your exhaust coupled with the road noise from your tyres) combine, the resultant effect is very similar to what you describe. The regular four-second pulsating is the combined resonance of the other noise inputs.

So, a couple of questions: is your exhaust standard OEM fitment, or an after-market one? Same question for the tyres. These are the most obvious things that a) generate noise, and b) are often changed.

Brian

[lorriman]

has your car been for the ball joint recall?? (mines going in on the 12th)

Not yet! Still trying to get the above problem solved. Mitsi garages can only think about one problem at a time. Deflecting them off at this stage after months of hassle would be disastrous.

Why, do you think it could be the cause?

[lorriman]

On Kieran's theme of wheel bearing, worth checking out as it could have been damaged in the "pot hole" incident. Did the rear wheel go through it as well?

Good shout! Don't think the rear went through it though.

Interesting thing though, when they swapped the fronts for the rears the steering wheel now isn't level when straight ahead. Must be more buckles!!

[lorriman]

Thinking about this a bit more :headsc: ... it may be harmonic resonance. Everything has a resonant frequency and, occasionally, when the resonant frequencies of two or more noises (e.g. the sound from your exhaust coupled with the road noise from your tyres) combine, the resultant effect is very similar to what you describe. The regular four-second pulsating is the combined resonance of the other noise inputs.

So, a couple of questions: is your exhaust standard OEM fitment, or an after-market one? Same question for the tyres. These are the most obvious things that a) generate noise, and b) are often changed.

Brian

Thanks a lot Brian. Useful input.

The car's absolutely a bog standard V6 24V. The problem isn't down to wheels or tyres as we've tried every combination. Even tried 15" donor wheels from a previous generation model.

[The Vee]

I see you had the off side drive shaft changed - was this the side that hit the pot hole? I assume the wheel/tyre combinations were all correctly balanced.
Are your hub nuts tight on the front? As i mentioned earlier the pot hole could have damaged the wheel bearing, or if severe enough could even damage the flange/stub axle. Would have to been very severe but it did alter your wheel alignment.. I should check the suspension bushes as well. And the trackrod ends.

[RED]

Thinking about this a bit more :headsc: ... it may be harmonic resonance. Everything has a resonant frequency and, occasionally, when the resonant frequencies of two or more noises (e.g. the sound from your exhaust coupled with the road noise from your tyres) combine, the resultant effect is very similar to what you describe. The regular four-second pulsating is the combined resonance of the other noise inputs.

So, a couple of questions: is your exhaust standard OEM fitment, or an after-market one? Same question for the tyres. These are the most obvious things that a) generate noise, and b) are often changed.

Brian


Hi Brian

This sounds like my VR4 the other night. I think Marcus thought I was just being a "woman". It's been in the workshop for 2 months and whilst in there I had the BDA decat pipe fitted to finish the exhaust system off and the front tyres could do with a squirt of extra air in them. I only noticed it when I opened the back window for Emily but it was definately a pulsating warbley sound that got worse (obviously thinking along your lines) with more speed-thought something was loose like a wheel or nuts. Thought I was going mad when Marcus drove it and couldn't hear anything but I know every sound that comes from that car and this was definately something new

Cheers :-D

[lorriman]

I see you had the off side drive shaft changed - was this the side that hit the pot hole? I assume the wheel/tyre combinations were all correctly balanced.
Are your hub nuts tight on the front? As i mentioned earlier the pot hole could have damaged the wheel bearing, or if severe enough could even damage the flange/stub axle. Would have to been very severe but it did alter your wheel alignment.. I should check the suspension bushes as well. And the trackrod ends.

Thanks Vee for all those suggestions.

The driveshaft was changed last year, well before the pothole event this spring.

Why is it you can come up with lots of things to check when the garage dismisses everything I mention? They haven't even looked for half of these potential problems.

I appreciate your help.

[The Vee]

Was a mechanic/technician for many years (in answer to your question!!!)
But unfortunately I do feel a lot of "pride and professionalism" has gone from a lot of the main dealerships. It seems to be all quick turnarounds and costs without getting too involved. sounds familiar that? the way of the world now - sadly. Your car would be an interesting job. To diagnose the prob and cure it properly - thats what they used to call "customer satisfaction". What could happen now is you'll get so fed up with it that you'll sell, swearing never to have another Mitsi. (I hope not tho)

[lorriman]

Was a mechanic/technician for many years (in answer to your question!!!)
But unfortunately I do feel a lot of "pride and professionalism" has gone from a lot of the main dealerships. It seems to be all quick turnarounds and costs without getting too involved. sounds familiar that? the way of the world now - sadly. Your car would be an interesting job. To diagnose the prob and cure it properly - thats what they used to call "customer satisfaction". What could happen now is you'll get so fed up with it that you'll sell, swearing never to have another Mitsi. (I hope not tho)

If the car was worth more than the outstanding finance I'd be sorely tempted. Funny that. When I owned the Carisma, I had my fair share of problems, but nothing like with this one and it was built in Holland! They said at the time that the Galant was built better and had none of the problems associated with the other cars in the range. They were right, it has problems all of its own and most of them are down to the crap dealers.

The Lexus IS200 may be overpriced, but their customer service comes up tops in all the polls.

God knows what customers will think when they start buying the leurvly, cuddly new Colt by the shedload. Mitsi just won't be able to cope!

[The Vee]

yep. Stick with it. I've had a lot of niggles with mine but somehow I just couldn't bear to part with it. It's one of those strange "love/hate" relationships.
Keep me posted on how you get on with the probs and if I can help any more then please shout or even PM me if you're frustrated with typing about "the old chestnut" !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mel]

Sounds like a nightmare!
Does it happen every time you go above 60?
You say that it is a fierce pulsing at about 4 second intervals- does that mean a surge every 4 seconds, or a 'burst' of vibrations every 4 sec?

If it is the first, it is really strange, much too slow for an out of balance wheel/shaft. Something much more in the transmission/engine management line (causing a surge/chop in power). Only problem is that you mention that is still happens when you go into N and coast, although there is still a good chunk of the transmission running when it is in N.

Its amazing that Mitsu can't spot it , if it is so repeatable- any other dealers nearby? (Hope its all under warranty)

[The Vee]

fUNILY ENOUGH MEL THAT CROSSED MY MIND TOO. i'VE KNOWN A BROKEN ALTERNATOR MOUNTING CAUSE SIMILAR BUT AS YOU SAY, HE STILL GETS IT WHEN COASTING. fINAL DRIVE? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ! wHY AM I IN CAPS LOCK - sorry
Trouble is without seeing or feeling the car you really are stabbing in the dark.
It'l probably turn out to be something quite straightforward I hope so anyway
Lorriman, Have you tried when stationary holding the engine at 2500 - 3000 revs in neutral to see if it is coming from the engine? An outside chance but it is a process of ellimination.

[lorriman]

Sounds like a nightmare!
Does it happen every time you go above 60?
You say that it is a fierce pulsing at about 4 second intervals- does that mean a surge every 4 seconds, or a 'burst' of vibrations every 4 sec?

If it is the first, it is really strange, much too slow for an out of balance wheel/shaft. Something much more in the transmission/engine management line (causing a surge/chop in power). Only problem is that you mention that is still happens when you go into N and coast, although there is still a good chunk of the transmission running when it is in N.

Its amazing that Mitsu can't spot it , if it is so repeatable- any other dealers nearby? (Hope its all under warranty)

Cheers for that. The vibration gets worse every 4 seconds. It's as if a wheel is loose or the wheels are very much out of balance, but it will happen with a brand new set of wheels and tyres and also a donor set from another car. When my wheels are put on the other car it doesn't experience the problems. It's also getting worse. The airbag rattles now and that's something that went away the last time this problem was 'solved' last autumn.

The problem is repeatable and the dealers agree with me that it is unacceptable. It's just that they don't appear to be able to sort it out! I've been to three now. The latest will be looking at it in about 10 days time. Say they will check the suspension mountings as they have only visually inspected them up until now.

[lorriman]

fUNILY ENOUGH MEL THAT CROSSED MY MIND TOO. i'VE KNOWN A BROKEN ALTERNATOR MOUNTING CAUSE SIMILAR BUT AS YOU SAY, HE STILL GETS IT WHEN COASTING. fINAL DRIVE? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ! wHY AM I IN CAPS LOCK - sorry
Trouble is without seeing or feeling the car you really are stabbing in the dark.
It'l probably turn out to be something quite straightforward I hope so anyway
Lorriman, Have you tried when stationary holding the engine at 2500 - 3000 revs in neutral to see if it is coming from the engine? An outside chance but it is a process of ellimination.

Thanks for that 'TheVee' I have done as you asked and the problem is definitely only when the car is running at 60 or above.

I had a long drive from Hull to Gloucester yesterday afternoon and while I couldn't take her up very far I reached 90 and the vivration got worse up to about 83 and then flattened off straight up to 90. The steering wheel vibrates as if the wheels are out of balance, the airbag rattles loudly and my legs get a dose of the old 'vibration white finger syndrome' (AKA coal miners working with drills). It's just got to be something loose.

[lorriman]

If anyone knows of an auto specialist in the area between Bristol, Birmingham, Swindon and Oxford who you think might be able to talk sense and spend a couple of hours (at my expense) looking at the various potential causes of this I'd be most grateful. The dealers don't allow their technicians a free hand on these matters. I had to pay for 1 1/2 hrs of their time just to drive the car with me in it just to agree that there was a problem. And the car's under warranty!!!!

[The Vee]

That's dreadful - they agree there's a problem - you're under warranty - and you paid for their time? Time to write to mitsubishi uk,direct at Cirencester.

[Roadrunner]

I experienced the same when I had a leak from the gearbox. Local dealer explained to me that the investigative work (i.e. until they actually locate the problem) is not covered under warranty but, once they've identified the problem precisely, the warranty kicks in. I agreed to that, so I had no grounds to complain, even if I'd wanted to.

Brian

[lorriman]

I experienced the same when I had a leak from the gearbox. Local dealer explained to me that the investigative work (i.e. until they actually locate the problem) is not covered under warranty but, once they've identified the problem precisely, the warranty kicks in. I agreed to that, so I had no grounds to complain, even if I'd wanted to.

Brian

In many respects you can't really blame them. They must spend a lot of time chasing problems that don't exist. I didn't mind paying for 1 1/2 hrs of their time, but they never followed it up to let me know what they were doing about it.

After 3 weeks I called for the nth time to be told that their computer system was down and that I should call them back in a week when they would be able to book me in for the following week. Now that's what I call crap customer service, but I haven't found any dealer who actually understands the meaning of the phrase. They're going to do the lower ball joint check and then go over the rest of the suspension to try and identify the cause of the vibration.

Meanwhile I'm travelling hundreds of miles on the motorways of Britain and having to put up with this problem. Let's hope that Mitsi don't ever try entering F1. Imagine how long a pitstop would take.

Schumacher signs a $100m deal to race for the new Mitsubishi F1 team in 2006. In his first race in Malaysia he comes into the pits for a scheduled tyre and fuel stop, but is waved through by the pit crew because they weren't expecting him. He calls them on the radio only to be told that they couldn't see him at the moment because they were waiting for a delivery of new tyres and the fuel they had in stock was for a Shogun Sport and wouldn't work in an F1 car.
2 laps later he calls in again, this time desperate to be refuelled and tyred and the pit crew agree he can drop in when he's next passing.
In he comes and sits in the pit box, but there's no crew around. He waves angrily until the team manager comes out and asks him for his name and car registration.
Manager "Have you booked it in sir?"
Schu "Yes! I called a few moments ago."
Manager "Let me see what I can do. Are you willing to wait?"
Schu "Yes, I'll wait"
A few minutes pass
Manager "Do you have your keys sir?"
Manager drives the car into the garage.
An hour later, Schumacher is getting restless and asks what's happening to his car
Manager "We've been very busy today. Your car will be ready soon. Please help yourself to a coffee."
30 minutes later and the race leader, Jenson Button is within 10 laps of a momentous victory.
Manager "I'm sorry you've had to wait sir. We've put some fuel into your car and it appears to run okay, but we didn't find anything wrong with the tyres. Have you had them on there long?"
Schu "Just give me the car back!"
Manager "That'll be £150+VAT for the 2 hours labour and £350 for the 80 litres of special Mitsubishi 'go-faster' branded fuel"
Off Schumacher goes, less than impressed, but because he's the best driver in the championship he wins the race anyway!!