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miller
09-10-2009, 03:59 PM
Thought it time for a new thread! Im relatively green to this so have gone and done a bit of online research along with head scratching in my engine bay/yes

Okay based on this concept in pic 1 of a Skyline installation on a straight 6 i need to replicate the flow.

Pic 2 is my rough idea of how it goes ? please please feel free to draw over it and correct me, its my first guess and an assumption at best!

1: Pipe coloured yellow is the breather between the two 'V's ?
2: Pipe i have marked Green is the outlet breather going to goodness knows where ???
3: Pink circle and pipe is breather out towards proposed catch tank. (location TBC)
4: Blue pipe is breather return once oily air has been cleansed :huh2: now where does this go and to what attachement?

Gowf
09-10-2009, 04:02 PM
Ok.

Basically, you want to fit the inlet of your can to the hose that is connected to your inlet (i.e from the rear bank) and the outlet from the can back to the inlet.

That make sense?

miller
09-10-2009, 04:10 PM
Like this?

Red is entry to Catch can from rear bank breather

Yellow is return from Catch can back to rear ban breather to continue in its intended direction?

In otherwords tapping into current breather in two 'L' connections?

Gowf
09-10-2009, 04:15 PM
thats the boy

miller
09-10-2009, 04:17 PM
and lesson over for today!

Cheers Gareth!!

John TheAntique
09-10-2009, 08:12 PM
I take it you've seen this but others might not have http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13805

gallvr4
09-10-2009, 08:15 PM
time for a stupid question,but what advantage do we get for fitting an "oil catch can"....????

brendan

miller
09-10-2009, 08:32 PM
I take it you've seen this but others might not have http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13805
yes i did see that John, but i was after the installation process and the understanding behind the concept!

miller
09-10-2009, 08:34 PM
time for a stupid question,but what advantage do we get for fitting an "oil catch can"....????

brendan

Im getting quite a bit of oil in my IC pipes, this is to catch blown oil from crankcase. if im still getting oil in the IC pipes after fitment then it means the Turbo seals are done for.

gallvr4
09-10-2009, 08:38 PM
cheers mike.....sounds simple....feeling stupid now....!!!!:stupid: :stupid:

miller
09-10-2009, 08:59 PM
hey Brendam....ive only learnt this today too! from my 'Turbo Seals' thread earlier

gallvr4
09-10-2009, 09:52 PM
hey Brendam....ive only learnt this today too! from my 'Turbo Seals' thread earlier

just read it mike...hope you don't mind but i am going to copy ya aswell....i have a small bit of oil too....

miller
13-10-2009, 10:12 AM
Okay peeps my catch can arrived today! been out and my god its gonna be tight wherever it goes. Where has everyone else installed theirs?

Mike

Turbo_Steve
13-10-2009, 11:35 AM
I haven't looked, but that looks like the cam-case ventilation to me: isn't there a seperate crank-case vent which will also need a catch can?

These are usually mounted up at the top of the engine bay, but I am not sure if that is because they're shiny, or because there is a good reason.

From my point of view, the best place for this would be inside the front bumper in that big empty empty space! It would have the added benefit that draining the catch can out isn't a lengthy proposition involving hoses and spanners and stuff....you could just put a bowl underneath and open the drain plug.

miller
13-10-2009, 11:50 AM
arent they both in the same chamber Steve?

Yes its a shiny catch can! well if needs must to route it south under the bumper behind the fog light then yes.

It is only air recirculating back so no pressure drop interference for me to worry about?


Mike

Turbo_Steve
13-10-2009, 12:35 PM
I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work just fine here....the only real issue is that in a collision it's going to get destroyed, either spraying oil everywhere, becoming a ballistic weapon or if it's a small crunch, leaving a nice inlet hose unblocked to suck crud into the engine.

I don't see any of these as being especially likely. The only bit to be careful of is the hose routing....the oil can really needs to be the lowest point in all the plumbing, so it might be easiest to go accross into the wing, and then down, rather than under-and-up as it were.

Isn't there a grommet behind the strut-tower...could run along the back of the engine to there and into the wing........


With regard to crank case ventilation.......no idea. I'm not in a position to have a sneakypeaky at the moment, and my legendarily cruddy memory isn't providing me with an image of crankcase vent for either the VR4 or the Evo...so maybe there isn't one? From memory, there is one on the skyrine, and definitely one on the Scoobs.

peter thomson
13-10-2009, 01:26 PM
We don't have a crankcase vent to air .The pipe goes from the rear rocker cover to the inlet pipe. I fitted my catch tank next to the radiator expansion tank

miller
13-10-2009, 01:36 PM
We don't have a crankcase vent to air .The pipe goes from the rear rocker cover to the inlet pipe. I fitted my catch tank next to the radiator expansion tank

Mine fits there lovely, ive tried it, but how did you fasten it? or what did you fasten it too? Have you a pic of your installation Peter?

Cheers


Mike

peter thomson
13-10-2009, 01:43 PM
At the moment I have a huge cable tie holding it in place until I make up a bracket. My one may be a different shape to yours though

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/vbpicgallery.php?do=big&p=3339

miller
13-10-2009, 01:48 PM
ahhh i see! im good with cable ties! Mines pretty much the same shape and has the option to mount it vertically or horizontally.
I think i need to source a few more metres of hose though. Do you have a close up of the connecting two pipes to the breather?
Im thinking 2x90deg hose couplers, cut the breather about 2inch from its connection to the block and tap them there?

Mike

peter thomson
13-10-2009, 02:00 PM
I just removed the pipe between the rear rocker and inlet pipe as in another thread. I can take a pic tonight.

Turbo_Steve
13-10-2009, 02:01 PM
Thanks Peter....Guess I'd better go and check Skylines, then :(


Just out of interest, what do you do when it's time to empty the catch can?
They're actually not very capacious (because of the baffles and everything designed to cause the oil to drop out of suspension, they're "full" at around halfway) so I used to have to empty mine fairly regularly. Certainly, it would need doing every time I topped the oil up!

peter thomson
13-10-2009, 02:02 PM
It's only been on a short time Steve and there isn't any oil at the lowest level window yet

miller
13-10-2009, 02:04 PM
I can take a pic tonight.

Cheers Peter, im 99% sure I am on the right pipe, buts it's nice to see another one to confirm. Confidence is what i lack with stuff like this but im getting there.

Mike

swinks
13-10-2009, 03:30 PM
Yes Peter, can you do more pics, please?

I have the same can and right now I'm struggling to find right place to fit one. Yours seems be perfect, so can I steal your idea? :D

peter thomson
13-10-2009, 10:20 PM
Pics
First one is the catch tank
Second outlet from rocker.
Third inlet of the inlet pipe behind MAF

swinks
16-10-2009, 12:49 PM
Thanks Peter!

Another question.
I have few spare "y" shape connectors 10mm ID.
What's about to join both breather hoses from front and rear bank using "Y" connector, then one hose to catch can inlet and blank inlet on rear bank (those which is connecting front and rear)?
Or there's just forced circulation and it won't work, only rear bank breather outlet with can in-line.

peter thomson
16-10-2009, 01:03 PM
The advice in the other threads is to take it from the vent to inlet but I don't see why it wouldn't work as long as the system is kept closed

miller
07-12-2009, 04:27 PM
Peter, thanks for your imput, i finally got round to installing mine today. Was simple as i had the plenum off anyways, made life very easy on connecting it all up! Rep on its way!

Cheers

Mike

chris g
07-12-2009, 05:11 PM
How do you close the bonnet with all that pipe hanging out...?

Just push it under the bonnet as you close it , like packing a suitcase...?

miller
07-12-2009, 05:27 PM
:) :) the last picture should be second! That was just the way i judged how much pipe i would need for each run. ie i obtained a 2m lenght of hose, connected either end to the block breather and return pipe. So when the can got installed all i had to do was cut to length etc!

peter thomson
07-12-2009, 06:10 PM
Nice job Mike

Dom B
09-01-2010, 05:54 PM
Do these engines have a PCV system or can we just vent to air? Possibly with a 1 way valve. I have just cleaned all the pre turbo pipework of oil and want it to atay that way. the last thing i need is a glob of octane reducing oil shooting through the engine on full chat.

dublee
09-01-2010, 07:38 PM
i have one of these on my firewall, was there when i bought the car.
i've never emptied it or anything, does it not empty itself back into the engine oil?
i'll take a few pics tomorrow.

Davezj
09-01-2010, 10:08 PM
yes there is a pcv in the front rocker cover it is the black pipe coming out of the back of it and going down to the bottom of the inlet manifold.
this will suck oil vapour from the rocker covers and send it to one of the middle cylinders.

the other oil vapour route is when the inlet manifold is pressureised, the oil vapour then get blown out through the front rocker cover to the rear cover and then out to the pre turbo inlet piping. this will drain down to the turbo inlets and then down to the standard bov/recirc valve and collect. then when recirc valve dumps pressure the oil gets blown back up the turbo inlet pipe work. makes a right mess.

2 oil catch cans are needed to completly stop the oil vapour getting into the egine. one on the PCV side and one in the breather pipe between the rear rocker and the inlet piping.

hope this helps.

Dom B
10-01-2010, 05:36 PM
Cheers Davezj, going to investigate. Finishing off my bottom arms off now then looking into the routing. I've seen the front to rear rocher cover pipe next tot eh airbox thet then comes back out to the pre turbo pipe mainly to the back turbo.

I looked at the recirculating valve pipe and thought that would end up collecting the oil to the front.

I just cleaned out all the pre turbo pipes yesterday when i did the thermostat and i don't want it getting oily again. Might make up some catch tanks for our system.

miller
28-01-2010, 01:41 PM
Just an update on this, to date no oil has reached the indicator level in my catch tank so im taking it that its all good and working!

Davezj
28-01-2010, 02:18 PM
i have made some oil catch tubs from a couple of glass coffee jars and some fitting through the lid. i filled the jar with stainless steel pad pan cleaners (so they will not rust) and these will act as the condensing material as the vapour flows from one pipe to the other.
glass jar will be ideal to see the oil and you just need to unscrew the jar from the lid to empty the oil out.
i still have to make the bracket to hold them, but that will be easy now i have a job lot of cheap old metal maccaro.
i was going to mount one on the bulk head above rear turbo (it will be a bit warm bit shouldn't cause any problems) and the other strapped to the expantion tank as mike has done, this one will be the PCV valve catch jar.

WildCards
28-01-2010, 02:32 PM
I've just replaced the PCV system on the Saab which has an oil trap as standard. At the bottom of the trap it has an extra hose which drops down and connects to the sump,which obviously takes care of any oil build up. Does the VR4 have a sump breather which could be connected to?

Colin Wiltshire
04-04-2011, 04:58 PM
Can anybody tell me what size pipes to get? thought might be 10mm but not sure, thanks

apeman69
04-04-2011, 06:12 PM
10mm inside diameter piping to fit to the nipples on the car. Get a catch can with 10mm connectors for the simple life!

Colin Wiltshire
06-04-2011, 04:51 PM
10mm inside diameter piping to fit to the nipples on the car. Get a catch can with 10mm connectors for the simple life!

Thanks, thats a bit of luck as have catch can with 10mm on there

thfelipeth
07-02-2012, 01:23 PM
what size catch can should i be looking for? is there a math to this? i see some from 0.5 litres to 3 litres lol.. thanks!

jayp
07-02-2012, 01:28 PM
It all depends how often you want to empty it, I have a half liter in mine and still have not emptied it in a year, but it doesn't seem to fill up with oil, get some nasty water in there tho, i assume condensation from the crankcase. It's down to space restrictions as well

Sent from my HTC Desire S

thfelipeth
07-02-2012, 02:15 PM
seet! thanks alot julian. good start for my hunt

BraindG
02-04-2012, 02:07 PM
Are there any recommendations on type/make/model of catch can to get?

What have others got?

I like

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CUSCO-OIL-CATCH-TANK-CAN-9MM-Universal-Fit-/120735786696?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1c1c69e6c8

thfelipeth
03-04-2012, 04:45 AM
i ended up installing a Greddy 0.5 liter Catch can

swinks
04-04-2012, 04:40 PM
Barry, I got that sort of thingy:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Oil-Catch-Can-15mm-Fittings-Universal-Breather-Tank-Crank-Case-Breather-Square-/330674802885?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4cfdc110c5
It's fitted as in picture (blue one, next to coolant overflow tank):
52535

BraindG
09-05-2012, 11:30 AM
Are there any recommendations on type/make/model of catch can to get?

What have others got?

I like

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CUSCO-OIL-CATCH-TANK-CAN-9MM-Universal-Fit-/120735786696?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1c1c69e6c8



Postie came today :lipseal

miller
09-05-2012, 11:34 AM
nice shiny new stuff!!!

Dom B
09-05-2012, 01:16 PM
Nice installation, I can't help noticing that you are still venting the front rocker cover into the front 3 cylinders via the PCV one way valve. Its the small hose in the back centre of the front rocker cover. You won't pull oil vapour under load with boost but you can add some oil build up to the intake which can pick up again when you accelerate as it has already passed the PCV valve. The oil vapour could cause octance problems on the front cylinders. Block off the mainfold pipe and vent the PCV valve to the catch can too.

Wodjno
09-05-2012, 07:25 PM
Nice 1 Barry /yes
I found mine in a box in box in a box today, while sorting out garage. Must get round to fitting it /yes Only had a "Few" years /help

fassi1
01-09-2012, 06:09 PM
Some photos from fitting oil catch can.
I bought this one
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170856991984?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2648
but they are quite big and it is hard to find room for it without running long pipes,
so decided to make it slightly smaller with added pad for better oil absorption.

Oblivion
03-09-2013, 12:31 PM
Might put a catch can in soon but do I go with 9mm, 15mm or 19mm hose fittings?

wintertidenz
04-09-2013, 08:13 AM
9mm fittings. I used some 10mm fuel injection hosing for mine and found it was slightly too big, so 9mm should be about right.

Oblivion
04-09-2013, 10:15 AM
Ok 9mm sounds like a plan then, cheers!

Davezj
09-02-2014, 01:54 PM
jjust thought i would add to this thread.
as fassi1 pointed out above most oil catch cans come with nothing inside, just an empty box.
this makes tham about as useful as a chocolate tea pot. the oil vapour goes in to them and get sucked or pushed straight out. you might as well not have one fitted.

you need to put something inside the can for the oil to condence on to when it enters the can. i use stainless steel pan scrubs, ( you can get 10 for £1 in pound shops).

but you have to ensure the oil mist vapour goes through the condensation media (read Pan scrubs) so you need to add a pipe from the inlet port on the top of the can to near the bottom of the can so the oil mist vapour has to go through the condensation media before it exit the can back up at the top of can. if you just add the condensation media there is nothing to stop the oil mist from entering the can at one port at the top of the can and going straight out the other port at the top of the can.

i hate to think how many people are rumming with just empty catch cans thinking, i never have to empty this can my engine must not produce any oil vapour, the when they look at the post turbo inlet pipe work it is covered in oil mist vapour and they think there turbos seals are leaking.because they have a catch can fitted and that would catch any oil mist from the engine, DOOM and GLOOM new turbos required.

please please please check you catch cans and make sure you ad the pipe and the condensation media. It will take 10 mins to chack just undo the 4 screws on the top of catch can and pull the lid off to check.

exevoowner
09-02-2014, 03:00 PM
Very good point dave i know the one i had fitted on my evo had wirewool inside and had a removable top so it could be changed have looked at a few as i need one for the vr4 but as yet its on the todo list

Humpty's Revenge
09-02-2014, 04:30 PM
i know the one i had fitted on my evo had wirewool

:shocked:

Condensation = moisture = Wire wool rusts.....

Put stainless steal kitchen scourers in the catch can, then it will work spot on...

Oblivion
20-02-2014, 11:13 AM
Just wondering if it is fine to vent the return pipe that comes out of the catch can to atmosphere or does it have to go into the pipe after the maf?

Also I dont supppose someone could elaborate on this perhaps with a pic/diagram? I cant get my head around how this part supposed to go together!

Nice installation, I can't help noticing that you are still venting the front rocker cover into the front 3 cylinders via the PCV one way valve. Its the small hose in the back centre of the front rocker cover. You won't pull oil vapour under load with boost but you can add some oil build up to the intake which can pick up again when you accelerate as it has already passed the PCV valve. The oil vapour could cause octance problems on the front cylinders. Block off the mainfold pipe and vent the PCV valve to the catch can too.

Davezj
20-02-2014, 12:10 PM
Just wondering if it is fine to vent the return pipe that comes out of the catch can to atmosphere or does it have to go into the pipe after the maf?

Also I dont supppose someone could elaborate on this perhaps with a pic/diagram? I cant get my head around how this part supposed to go together!

Dom has this slightly wrong as the PCV valve is attached to all cylinder inlets, not just the front 3 cylinders.
the PCV valve allows oil vapour to suckked into the engine only when the inlet manifold is under vacuum, e.g. at idle, at cruise, at low load on the engine.
it is perfectly acceptable to do this.
Is also acceptable to vent the crank case pressure and oil vapour directly through a filter into the engine bay, not through a catch can.
but it is more environmentally friendly and cleaner to burn the oil vapour in the engine via the PCV valve system and to collect the remaining oil vapour in a catch can and if an oil drain/return pipe is fitted then the condesnsed oil in the catch can will flow directly back to the sump so you do not loose any of it from the engine.
the pipe from the inlet pipework to the oil catch can, just aids in the collection of the oil vapour, as a small vacuum is created in the inlet pipe work and helps to suck the vapour into the catch can. but the crank case pressure is pushing the vapour into the catch can anyway, so venting the catch can with a filter if perfect OK as the oil vapour has been caught in the can anyway.

Humpty's Revenge
20-02-2014, 12:17 PM
Putting an air filtered oil catch can will suck in un-metered air

Davezj
20-02-2014, 12:26 PM
you maen through the PCV valve system through all the baffles in the rocker cover and the pipework and the condensation media in the catch can.
yes you could get some air in there, not much but it would be possible.
if that is an issue then you can fit a PCV valve (or any other one way valve) on the catch can so it only vents out.
or just connect the pipe to the inlet pipe work.

swinks
20-02-2014, 01:05 PM
Oil catch can supposed to be fitted in-line into head breather pipe, not a pcv valve.

swinks
20-02-2014, 01:10 PM
Dom has this slightly wrong as the PCV valve is attached to all cylinder inlets, not just the front 3 cylinders.
Yhmmm... pcv valve sits in-line between front head and intake plenum lower chamber. Can't see anything to do with rear head.
Correct statement should be that pcv valve regulates pressure between intake plenum (after throttle body) and cylinder heads (directly front head and partialy through a brearther pipe rear one).

Davezj
20-02-2014, 02:05 PM
Yhmmm... pcv valve sits in-line between front head and intake plenum lower chamber. Can't see anything to do with rear head.
Correct statement should be that pcv valve regulates pressure between intake plenum (after throttle body) and cylinder heads (directly front head and partialy through a brearther pipe rear one).

i thought i would make this a little clearer as you expanation although correct was a little vauge and general.

my point in saying dom was slightly wrong in his assumption that the pcv valve only connected to the front 3 cylinders, is because the PCV valve connects into the tube that runs under the inlet manifold (which is part of the inlet manifold casting) and this tube is connected to all of the cylinder inlets, not just the front 3.

Yon can put it this way that blowby gasses (past piston rings) that pressurises cranck case and head area under the rocker cover on both front and back banks are disapated through the PCV valve system when the inlet manold is under vacuum and the rocker cover vent pipe to inlet pipework when the inlet manifold is under positive pressure.
the oil vapour is in the same area as the blowby gasses and gets carried along with them.

babasvr4
23-07-2014, 07:58 AM
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/23/9a8aja5u.jpg

I built mine using 2" copper pipe, caps top and bottom and two 3/8 copper lengths on top, one in about 4 inches long and the return about 2 inches long. Used coarse s/s scourer to trap oily vapours
Some spare silicone to secure it to battery cowl and away we go!

FLPGACITUA
22-05-2015, 10:27 AM
So, i know this is an old thread.. But, would it be a good idea to Tap into the hose that runs between the Front and Rear bank, Block the outlet that feeds into turbo inlet and have a filtered catch can for it to not pressurise and keep the air flow coming from the valve covers?

What about the PCV pipe that feeds into the manifold?
Would it be a good idea to have a second Solid catch can that simply taps into that Link? So, run a short as possible hose into a solid can catch-can that feeds back into the position it's meant to go?
OR, running the the PCV side into a Filter Catch can and Block the inlet? Or possibly just add a Filter to the inlet into the manifold side?
Am i just talking crap? I'll try to make a diagram.
Let's keep it simple. With diagrams if possible please