manual conversion time?

[crazydriver81]

while playing around with ASA and the previous CAPS I've found some interesting things to consider, when converting a Legnum/Galant auto into manual. I might be wrong, but what I've learned from the part number system from Mitsi let me to my conclusion...

As I know that a manual conversion is a popular mod, I asked myself which cars from Mitsi have a manual gearbox (similar to Legnum) and 4WD. I found JDM RVR, EDM Outlander, EDM SpaceWagon.

Chassis codes are: N73WG / CU2W / N94W

The gearbox codes are either W5M51 or W5M42 (W=4WD / 5=5 gear / M=manual / 51=bell housing for 240mm clutch / 42=bell housing for 225mm clutch) -> W5M51 and W5M42 have the same mounting holes, although the bell housing is slightly different -> boxes are interchargeable


A manual Legnum VR-4 has a 240mm clutch and is running on a W5M51 gearbox.
A manual Legnum ST-R has a 225mm clutch and is running on a W5M42 box.
A standard EDM Galant estate is running a 225mm clutch on a F5M42 gearbox.


WHich Mitsis are running what box?
a) N94W EDM SpaceWagon 2.4L GDI 4WD gearbox W5M42 t/f case W4A4 (VCU)
b) N73WG JDM RVR Sport-GEar X3 4WD gearbox W5M51 t/f case W5A5 or W5M5 (VCU)
c) CU2W EDM Outlander Comfort/SPort 4WD gearbox W5M42 t/f case W4A4 or W5M4 (VCU)
d) CU2W EDM Outlander Turbo 4WD gearbox W5M51 t/f case W5M5 (VCU)
e) CU5W EDM Outlander 2.4L Mivec 4WD gearbox W5M42 t/f case W4A4 or W5M4 (VCU)
f) CN9A JDM Evo4 GSR and RS 4WD gearbox W5M51-1 t/f case W5A5 or W5M5 (VCU)
g) CP9A JDM Evo5/6 GSR and RS 4WD gearbox W5M51-2 t/f case W5M5 or W5M51 (VCU & LSD)
h) CT9A JDM Evo 7/8/9 MR & RS gearbox W5M51-2 t/f case W5M5 or W5M51 or W6MAA

By the way, the other parts like clutch master cylinder, fluid line etc can be found in EDM Galant Estate V6 2WD models (EA5x). Flywheel and clutch from the 2WD Galant estate will fit a Legnum ST-R as well.

It's a bit more difficult for VR-4 owners, as they need to switch to the Evo clutch kit (NickMann is offering a fitting kit for the Evo clutch). Unfortunately no other Mitsi model is running the clutch/flywheel combo from a manual VR-4, so the other option is to buy a flywheel and a clutch kit from the stealer.


conclusion:
- 25ST-R owners should look out for W5M42 gearboxes and can use all other parts from a 2WD european spec Galant estate or saloon (inc. clutch & flywheel)
- VR-4 owners should look out for W5M51 gearboxes and can use other parts from a 2WD european spec Galant estate or saloon (exc. clutch & flywheel)


Ok, hope that helps finding all necessary parts for a conversion. Will update this thread here, when I have done my conversion. Currently looking out for a manual gearbox and all necessary bits. /popcorn

[bradc]

Nice research :)

[Ryan]

Nice research :)

Ze Germans are very good at this /yes :D

[crazydriver81]

indeed we are... :D but maybe it is because of a lack of manual VR-4 gearboxes here in Europe and the larger number of manual Outlanders here.

I am pretty sure that it is easier to get hold of a Outlander or SpaceWagon (Chariot Grandis) manual 4WD gearbox here in Europe. Both cars were sold as manual only.

[scott.mohekey]

Will the bell housings mate up to the engine ok? Or do those cars also use 6A13s?

[wintertidenz]

Most of the engines that those gearboxes originally bolted up to will be 6Gxx's I would say - especially if they are the 3 litre and above ones.

Might also be the 6B31's on the brand new Outlanders, they are 2007+ engines from memory. No idea on bell housings etc on these ones either, sorry.

[crazydriver81]

well, this is what I mentioned before. The number within the gearbox code tells you the shape of the bell housing (this is what I've learned from a technical trainer from Mitsi here in Germany!).

e.g. W5M42 and F5M42 and W4A42 - the bell housing has the same shape where it joines the short block and where the starter motor sits (defined by numbers 42) but is different where the driveshafts join (W=4WD so for bolt on a transfer case / F=front only so for taking the driveshafts directly). The letters A or M tell you if it's a manual or auto. But it is possible that the positions for the mounting brackets are different.

Normally, the gearboxcode is like W5M51-x-xxxx but the last x-ed digits only tell you the gear ratio.

Has anyone ever tried to fit an Evo Gearbox to a VR-4? Because the Evo 7 / 8 has a W5M51 gearbox. Same code as on VR-4 manual cars. Below a picture...

Has anyone a picture from a VR-4 manual box to show here and compare?

[bradc]

I was actually down at the guys that did the work on my car this week and they swore black and blue that they fitted an EVO 5 gearbox straight up to a VR-4 engine. I didn't have my camera with me at the time so I couldn't take pics of the 4 (yes, 4!!) W5M51's they had sitting about. They also had 2 W6M61's there which are the EVO 8-9 6 speed boxes.

[Turbo_Steve]

Go back and get pics, brad. W6M61 would make me go manual! :D

[carlos-1975]

i have jays manual gearbox in my garage if there aint a pic up by tomorrow i will go take oneas its to dark atm

carl

[scott.mohekey]

I have a manual sitting in my garage. I'll take pics right now.

[crazydriver81]

seems to be a topic with lot of interest, eh... :D

Btw, anyone out there to check ASA for the gearbox code of an Evo5 gearbox? (I am still at work and have no access to ASA... :()

[scott.mohekey]

Apologies for the horrible photos, but all I have is a ****ty motorola razr.

Anyway.. it looks like most of the bolts line up, but I imagine you'll have to make a blanking plate or something.

[Ryan]

Motorola RAZR is a complete POS, mine landed up against the wall several times before I was happy that it was dead beyond repair.

Worst phones in the history of humankind. :bigcry: Sorry for hijack.

[scott.mohekey]

I only have it because my nokia n91 died and my brother had it lying around. One day I'll have a cool phone.. one day..

[crazydriver81]

I only have it because my nokia n91 died and my brother had it lying around. One day I'll have a cool phone.. one day..

:stop: :shocked: :blahblah: /Hijack

[crazydriver81]

hmm...seems very similar? what'S the gearbox code?

and is there any device sitting in the red area? yellow marked area is for the starter motor...AFAIK :laugh:

@brad: could you please ask the guys, if they ever have bolt an Evo4 gearbox on to the 6A13 engine?

Would be interesting to know, because EVO4 has W5M51-1 and EVO5/6 has W5M51-2 gearbox. Manual VR-4's have a W5M51-2 gearbox. I start to worry about the single figure...

have updated the first post... /Wyhy

[scott.mohekey]

and is there any device sitting in the red area? yellow marked area is for the starter motor...AFAIK :laugh:


The red area is covered with a blanking plate that goes between the engine and the gearbox.

This gearbox is out of a manual vr4.

[crazydriver81]

Go back and get pics, brad. W6M61 would make me go manual! :D

an interesting question, indeed... I would bet my ass on it, that the W6MAA fits to the 6A13 block!

What makes me sure?
- W5M51-2 and W6MAA-1 are both mountable to 4G63T block
- W5M51-2 and W6MAA-1 are both using the same engine cover plate on clutch side (plate is fixed with the gearbox bolts onto block)
- W5M51-2 and W6MAA-1 are both using same flywheel / clutch / pressure plate amd run on a 240mm clutch

conclusion: W5M51-2 and W6MAA-1 is interchargeable...and manual VR-4's have a W5M51-2 box :D

I think there is only one way to figure out if it works or not => TRY AND ERROR!

Steve, will you be the first to try? :runkest:

[bradc]

That only works for sure if the evo gearbox bolts onto our engine.

The russian guy that already has the 6 speed in his car said one hole didn't line up and he drilled and tapped a new hole in or something similar to that.

[scott.mohekey]

That only works for sure if the evo gearbox bolts onto our engine.

The russian guy that already has the 6 speed in his car said one hole didn't line up and he drilled and tapped a new hole in or something similar to that.

That sounds like far less hassle than other manual conversions I've heard of.. i.e. 6A13TT into 7g using the 7g drive train.

[Turbo_Steve]

Dependant on cost in the UK, I'd be sorely tempted.

But.....what are the model codes for the SST system from the X. I bet THAT doesn't fit! :D :D :D

[crazydriver81]

That only works for sure if the evo gearbox bolts onto our engine.

The russian guy that already has the 6 speed in his car said one hole didn't line up and he drilled and tapped a new hole in or something similar to that.

agree Brad, I can remind too. He had to redrill the holes to oval holes as they were not large enough. (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38272&page=2)

So, let's get it on and source W6MAA gearboxes and shift cables then... :bananadan

[bradc]

I like the idea of a 6 speed for my ST-R as it doesn't have a huge amount of power and could benefit from the closer ratios. On a VR-4 though I question the need without a longer final drive ratio. The 6 speed has a 4.583 final drive ratio which will make it great around a tight track with a stock power VR-4, but around Taupo I found I was using 3rd and 4th only and was perfectly happy with that. With the 6 speed I'd need to go to 5th regularly as well and it would have been a bit of a pain.

[Turbo_Steve]

Hmm.....my VR4 could really do with a nice loooong cruising gear. I'd like it to be 6th!!!

[bradc]

Even with a 4.111 final drive the 6 speed won't be as long as the auto.

[Turbo_Steve]

Yeah, so I gathered. I just wish I knew what would help :(

[bradc]

The gearbox out of the V6 Eclipse would give you 46.8kmh/1000rpm. The gearboxes in the 2.0 and 2.2 diseasel Outlanders would give you 43.96 and 48.84

[VR4WGN]

wow you guys have done some GREAT work,if you let me know exactly wht im looking for i will get a 6ST and mate it up o the block and see what will need changing(holes etc),but as Bradc mentioed he questions the need for it o the VR4!

my Question is would it benefit or ot?

[bradc]

If you build me up a facelift ST-R, I'd be more than happy to pay extra for the 6 speed.

[crazydriver81]

as mentioned in the first post, the manual gearboxes for ST/ST-R and VR-4 are different, so I have no clue if the manual gearbox from a VR-4 would fit a ST-R.


I've checked ASA and compared the auto-boxes, just for reference of fitment.

25ST and 25ST-R W4A42 until 1998 / W5A51 from 1998-1999
VR-4 W5A51 over the whole period

But what I found too is, that they have changed the short block with switching to the 5SPD box. They used the VR-4 engine block from 1998-1999 on the v6 N/A models.

This indicates that the last series of the V6 N/A models have had a 5SPD auto-box. But what makes me wondering is the fact, that there is still only one ECU for A/T and engine. Strange.

In the end, you have to compare both gearboxes to tell for sure. I would say, it wouldn'T fit. Brad, I am sorry,but no 6SPD ST. :(

[bradc]

No that isn't true, ASA has a bit of a silly bug in it where it reports things incorrectly from 08/98 to 05/99. There was no such thing EVER as a w5a51 ST-R, and in fact, no such thing as a facelift ST-R, ie from 08/98