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View Full Version : PFL 7201 ecu successfully read and flashed



kinkyafro
15-10-2009, 09:08 PM
As per the subject having removed the eprom chip from a pfl ecu I've managed to read the data off it (see attached file) I've also sucessfully tested writing to another eprom...

I've not really looked at the rom in detail yet as I only just removed it 15 mins ago but I think it follows the same format as others I've seen.

Next step for me is to solder a socket onto the ECU I currently have in bits and see if it still works with the original map before applying a new map if I'm really lucky i may manage this over the weekend.

can a ecu mapping expert give me a second opinion on the attached rom - is it the same format as the 7202 roms?

assuming that it is has anyone got a good generic map (more boost please) for an unmodded VR4?

Cheers :)

wintertidenz
15-10-2009, 09:12 PM
Was the ECU only flashable by removing the chip, or was it just easier that way? I suspect a few people might not be too keen to take a soldering iron to their ECU, and if it can be flashed without the chip being taken off the board, that would be great :D

But definitely good news for us PFL owners :D have some rep!

kinkyafro
15-10-2009, 09:21 PM
Was the ECU only flashable by removing the chip, or was it just easier that way? I suspect a few people might not be too keen to take a soldering iron to their ECU, and if it can be flashed without the chip being taken off the board, that would be great :D

But definitely good news for us PFL owners :D have some rep!

I aquired a spare before i did it and it is fair to say it's not something for the feint of heart - I just hope I didn't cook the ecu mainboard in the process of removing it as i have yet to check it still works.

It probably is possible to do it without removal unfortunately the question of how hasn't been answered.

scott.mohekey
15-10-2009, 09:30 PM
Great work! This will probably end up being a service that some of us can do for others, unless a solderless method can be found.

REP!

Louis
15-10-2009, 09:33 PM
Hope this all goes well, well done, does this mean it may be poss with evoscan cable??

foxdie
15-10-2009, 09:34 PM
Well, that's not a total loss, there's nothing stopping you making a "daughterboard" that you can adjust / reflash whenever you want (but I think I remember reading that the changes are only read once per start-up or power-up and then kept in RAM) :)

foxdie
15-10-2009, 09:35 PM
Hope this all goes well, well done, does this mean it may be poss with evoscan cable??

Nope, not yet. This is more physically desoldering the storage chip of the ECU, programming it in a dedicated programming device, and then resoldering it into the ECU.

I hope one day it's just as simple as an OpenECU cable.

kinkyafro
15-10-2009, 09:42 PM
the changes are only read once per start-up or power-up and then kept in RAM)

Ugh hope your wrong on that as I was planning to try switchable maps next and having to disconnect the battery every time you switch the map would be a bit rubbish.

scott.mohekey
15-10-2009, 09:53 PM
Ugh hope your wrong on that as I was planning to try switchable maps next and having to disconnect the battery every time you switch the map would be a bit rubbish.

If you're going to have switchable maps, you'll probably have a switch of some sort, and I would also think that switching maps while the engine is running is a no no. So why not wire it up so that when the engine is off, you switch maps and it also resets the ecu.

Nutter_John
15-10-2009, 10:05 PM
I will have a chat with you at the weekend Rich about some idea on how you can do this without de-soldering the chip

But Mucho rep from me for doing this

wintertidenz
15-10-2009, 10:12 PM
Wonder if it is possible to pull the code within the actual processor and modify it so that switchable maps are possible?

There could also be a routine in there that prevents any changes to a particular area of the EPROM, which is why EvoScan and ECUFlash don't work... guess the only way to really tell is to check out how the other ECU's have been flashed and what they did to allow writing to memory.

scott.mohekey
15-10-2009, 10:24 PM
I'm sure I mentioned this in the other thread, but a daughter board with an inverted plcc socket on the bottom would do the trick. They used to do it in the Amiga days for various expansion options. I've attached two images showing what I mean. The first shows the daughter board installed, the second is a bit small, but shows the bottom of the daughter board.

scientist
16-10-2009, 01:03 AM
This is similar to what the older evo and the DSM guys do. Desolder the main EPROM chip, put in a ZIF socket and burn new chips for the ecu, or use an emulator to do live mapping etc.

kinkyafro
20-10-2009, 11:52 PM
Anymore news on this?

Yeah it seems that the rom I pulled is not yet understood - there are definitely tables present but they need to have there location, size and purposes identified. I just posted on geekmapped to see if any of the ecu gurus there can make sense of it.

wintertidenz
21-10-2009, 12:14 AM
Have you managed to solder a socket on and put the ROM back in for testing the ECU yet?

kinkyafro
21-10-2009, 07:54 PM
Have you managed to solder a socket on and put the ROM back in for testing the ECU yet?

Yep although I won't be testing it for a few weeks (no reason to rush as I don't have a modified rom to put on it).

Turbo_Steve
22-10-2009, 01:31 PM
You could always just modify a couple of null bits at the end and see if they write okay?

Davezj
22-10-2009, 01:45 PM
Hi There,
i would have thought you would want to see if the fitting of the chip back in to the socket and removing of it casued any problems before you go modifiying the rom.
get to a safe stable point where you can put a peg in the ground, in terms of design robustness. so you are confident you can pull the chip programe it and put it back in without worrying about the design falling apart. the last thing you would want is to do a load of testing, only to find out you have a intermitant dry solder joint some where thhat has bee screwing up your results and have to repeat everything again as no longer have reliable results.

paulg23
29-10-2009, 10:18 PM
What is the part number of the ROM chip please? I am an electronics/software engineer.

PaddyB
29-10-2009, 11:52 PM
It's an atmel device - it's mentioned earlier in this therad I think - or another thread on flashing. theres only 2 or 3 of them about.

kinkyafro
02-01-2010, 05:55 PM
Update time...

I've now got a fully working reflashable ecu with a standard 7201(EM0005) map on it.

I've reflashed it with a 7202(EM2005) rom unfortunately the car will turn over but won't start.

Which leaves me stuck with a reflashable ECU and nothing to flash onto it other then the stock rom (if anyone wants to examine the stock pfl rom see post No.1 of this thread).

Is there anyone out there with a metal cased Mines ECU that would be willing to take a look inside? Unless someone who understands these things can decipher the 7201 rom I've got nowhere to go other then trying to clone a mines ecu and examining the differences between the stock map and a mines map.

foxdie
02-01-2010, 08:34 PM
Hi kinky, is this still via desoldering of the EEPROM?

Edit: Ps. might be worth making this a sticky thread mods? It has potential to be hugely beneficial for us PFL owners once the nitty-gritty is sorted :)

kinkyafro
06-01-2010, 01:12 AM
After some late nights myself and Nutter_John have mapped out the ecu.

All the theory is done the 7201 is as tunable as the 7202.

We are now working on offering a mines like ecu swap service with a menu of different tunes to choose from...

We expect to be able to offer this service in 3-4 months

Pricing estimate is £100 (with a £50 deposit to be refunded on return of your original ecu) - this is CVR4 member price.

I plan to offer up some dyno proven results on my own car within 2 months.

Nutter_John is managing the map side of things so will probably be posting on the topic soon.

Nutter_John
06-01-2010, 01:21 AM
Yeah some very long nights have been spent on this but this is a huge step forward . A lot of hard work was put in by Rich doing the intial stages but after we got his car running on Saturday it was only a matter of time until we cracked the life code of the 7201


Ok the plan is to get 4 different maps so that the customer can choose what level of tune they want ,so you could say different stages (stage one up fuel cut , remap to 0.8 bar , little timming etc etc )

Hopefully in the future we can also start to look at doing ALS , LC ,CEL KNock , but this will take a lot longer as they are not the same processor as the 7202 so this will be 100% new code

What I have found is that it is very very unlikely that the 7201 can be flashed via ecuflash as the chip does not have the same built in boot loader nor does it have the logic the flash the eeprom

please post any question regarding this and we will answer , but one huge step foward :)

Nutter_John
06-01-2010, 10:49 AM
Custom re-maps are a future product and has already been discussed with a UK tuner

Turbo_Steve
06-01-2010, 05:23 PM
Let's not lose sight of the benefits of the factory ECU, here:

The NutterAfro flash is about changing the factory maps.
This means you retain all the knock-sensor-related goodness of the factory ECU. Same (to a lesser extent) with the fuel cut.

So you're not taking a huge risk with each map: no more so than buying a Jap car and running it on 97Ron. There is, of course, the possibility that you may encounter a horrific problem...but that possibility exists with an MBC.

If you're doing it properly, you'll have a boost gauge, wideband and potentially some kind of knock monitoring fitted already. Right?

wintertidenz
12-01-2010, 10:47 PM
I think it would also be a good idea to have someone in New Zealand or Aus also doing this work - as firstly it would be closer and safer for us in NZ/Aus to post ECU's to, I'm a bit wary of sending electronics halfway across the world!
Also those of us in the southern hemisphere seem to get different tuning/power results to those of you in the UK/Ireland, so it would make more sense to have someone here tune the ECUs to our conditions.

apeman69
13-01-2010, 04:35 AM
I think it would also be a good idea to have someone in New Zealand or Aus also doing this work - as firstly it would be closer and safer for us in NZ/Aus to post ECU's to, I'm a bit wary of sending electronics halfway across the world!
Also those of us in the southern hemisphere seem to get different tuning/power results to those of you in the UK/Ireland, so it would make more sense to have someone here tune the ECUs to our conditions.

Good idea. All you need is a computer geek, a tuner, somebody competant with electronics, a VR-4 owner and a clear idea of what you want to achieve. There must be these elements available in NZ/OZ! :uhoh: I'm expecting /bat

Davezj
13-01-2010, 08:35 PM
can i make a suggestion, and this would be only if the UK people wanted to do it.

if on the off chance the the maps would be the same for UK and NZ, OZ cars then can i suggest that the UK people get to know and trust a local representative in NZ and OZ with the required electronics expertise. then the programmed chips themselves could be sent across the world and then fitted by said trusted representatives in the NZ and OZ locations.

but this is of course just a suggestion and it is up to the developers if they wish to consider this.

it is still very early in the 7201 ECU map sale and distribution life so it will take a while to get the process established and efficient. but i am sure lots of people will take them up on there product.

and good luck to them.

elnevio
13-01-2010, 08:58 PM
PostMower(TM) standing down...

Let's keep this thread on track re information concerning the 7201 flashing process. The freedom of the information/knowledge behind the flashing is no longer a topic for discussion here at the present time.

Thank you! :)

swinks
22-01-2010, 01:37 PM
:bump2:
:bump2:
any news?

Nutter_John
22-01-2010, 02:21 PM
Next real update will be early March when we have some RR results to show , we are finishing getting all the tooling setup to enable us to do this on a reasonable scale

raph
27-01-2010, 12:28 AM
So to keep this on Track,if i find ive got a 7202,i can reflash it myself,

-if i have a 7201,i can take it oiut and send it to you and you remap it to my taste?

Keep us informed please!

raph
07-02-2010, 04:11 PM
Oh look i already read this far LOL, i must be bonkers -


Make this thread a Sticky?

sticky anyone?

dinger1983
19-02-2010, 05:16 PM
ok so theres gona be a big list of pfl owners wanting this dune including myself so is it gona be a first come first served or do u have a order list

Atik
19-02-2010, 05:22 PM
I would expect this to be simply order your PFL ECU from Kinky Nutters Inc. with your required map, and then send yours back to them?

Obviously these are my wildly accusating claims and not the real process involved, until otherwise proven by the peoples involved.

Nutter_John
19-02-2010, 05:22 PM
well we are corrupt so the more you pay us the quicker you get it :p

it all comes down to how quickly people return there old ecu once they have our one

dinger1983
19-02-2010, 07:22 PM
so if i send you mine now with big pile of cash i can have 1 now will you accept jock notes

aboo
19-02-2010, 07:29 PM
Never mined the big pile of cash. Get in line.:jester:

dinger1983
19-02-2010, 08:02 PM
Never mined the big pile of cash. Get in line.:jester:
what line thats why i asked is there a list i need to be on or is it first come first served

aboo
19-02-2010, 08:10 PM
I dont know mate. Will have to see what KinkyJohn inc say.

Nutter_John
19-02-2010, 08:13 PM
I think it should be the better you can beg and plead for one the closer to the front of the queue

please send an email

Iamsodesperate@makemycarfaster.com

miller
19-02-2010, 08:20 PM
:dance:

dinger1983
19-02-2010, 09:08 PM
you have seen my dyno i realy need help

Nutter_John
19-02-2010, 09:35 PM
Yes you do need help dinger , but before you need a flashed ecu you need to get your boost stable , moving the fuel cut is the last thing you want to do before then

Nutter_John
20-02-2010, 09:26 PM
mmmm Nice ,

Stock car with no boost altered from stock we managed an 16 bhp atw gain and a nice splodge of torque as well , still remaining very safe

Fully modded car , with boost and fuel tweaks we managed a nice gain of around 30-40 bhp .

Both cars had issues which stopped us pushing further , the stock car was suffering from unstable boost , we were not able to get stable runs back to back from it without any tweaks . The fully modded one was waiting for big numbers but was running far too lean (needs fuel pump) to start pushing hard .

So a good day as we have now proved that we can tune the PFL ecu and that all our maps are lined up correctly , Next stage is to go back in early April and build the final maps etc .

Anyway enough rubbish spoken , thanks Ben for the excellent Dyno control and being a good host as normal ,see you in April

aboo
20-02-2010, 09:35 PM
Congrats John all looks very promising.

apeman69
20-02-2010, 09:46 PM
NJ: I wish you'd said you were doing this today. I would have hung about for a while longer. I guess the Rohanne Galant I saw on the way out was one of your 'victims'. Nice to meet you, briefly!

Nutter_John
20-02-2010, 09:50 PM
Sorry Buddy , as I entered I shout to ben asking who you were so i could say hello so only just mamaged a quick Hello

Yeah the red galant was Kinhyafro's (yep victim sounds good )

Didn't hink anyone would be interested in just watching a car sat on a dyno ofr 6 hours :)

apeman69
20-02-2010, 09:55 PM
Didn't hink anyone would be interested in just watching a car sat on a dyno ofr 6 hours :)
I'm a saddo!:stupid:

dinger1983
20-02-2010, 10:16 PM
what mods were on the modded car what figures did you guys get

should i be buying a fuel pump to go along with the afr and proper boost gauge (getting rid of the stepper)

Nutter_John
20-02-2010, 10:21 PM
The modded car has intercooler , downpipes , 3" exhaust , air fliter , VTA bov , Blitz boost controller

The fuel pump should be done as part of the early mods as it is an easy mod that gives you a safety margin

I have now seen two cars on the rollers which are running high afrs on full chat and making nice number but with not much margin for a bad tank of fuel , this is down to a weak fuel pump ( was in TAR;'s case )

@0.8 the car made 295 bhp and 330 ft/lbs , there is more there I would say over 300 and 350 ft/lbs

dinger1983
20-02-2010, 10:26 PM
thoughs numbers make me think even more how the hell my car is doing it with with no ecu tuning and think even more how the hell it did it before the intercooler ,ebc,plug,atf and engine oil changes

Nutter_John
20-02-2010, 10:27 PM
you never got an afr reading off the dyno did ya ?

dinger1983
20-02-2010, 10:32 PM
not this time last time he did say my fueling was all over the place but i never seen the figures

Nutter_John
20-02-2010, 10:37 PM
well don't do anything else without getting some AFR readings as you may be running lean as feck ( thats where your power could be ) .

every time you went on the dyno he should have been watching the numbers and given you a print out , for instance all of the results I did today I got the AFR's so that I can reffer to them whilst reading the maps , I then know where I changed things and how much difference it made

apeman69
20-02-2010, 10:46 PM
Be careful dinger: you could be on your way to much more 'BANG' per buck than you hoped for. You should save your money from dyno runs, etc and use it to pay an expert to sort your fuelling and boost out. If you're unlucky you could be searching for a replacement engine. I don't wish to scaremonger or be over dramatic but something is going on with your car as many on here have previously advised. Take heed, dude. Let's be careful out there!

dinger1983
20-02-2010, 10:57 PM
ye she on low boost untill its sorted no fuel cut nothing happy car

dunc at hypertech is normaly good and pretty much saying the same things iv been told on here ie shorten and check all boost lines , the actuators ,get rid or the stepper boost gauge for a propper one ,get an afr wideband , get new fuel pump all the good stuff

kinkyafro
20-02-2010, 10:58 PM
This is just afr/timing no boost adjustment

Car is a stock pfl auto on stock boost except for
K&N panel filter
2.5" decat pipe(on a stock exhaust)
GFB Hybrid BOV(60% recirc/40%VTA)

Fuel was shell 99 octane

I also have a photo of the modded cars dyno sheet which is far more interesting but figured I'd leave publishing that to the owner.

Just done an 80 mile trip on a map with tweaked AFR's and the car feels significantly improved. I also fancy that the turbos whine a little earlier in the rev range and the engine sounds better (but that could just be in my head).

Interesting how much troubleshooting info you get from a dyno (3 issues identified on 3 cars). Next time mine will be running a boost controller.

Stock map = blue lines

apeman69
20-02-2010, 11:01 PM
Graph looks nice. Good job.

aboo
20-02-2010, 11:10 PM
Agreed very smooth.

Nutter_John
20-02-2010, 11:12 PM
This is just afr/timing no boost adjustment

Car is a stock pfl auto on stock boost except for
K&N panel filter
2.5" decat pipe(on a stock exhaust)
GFB Hybrid BOV(60% recirc/40%VTA)

Fuel was shell 99 octane

I also have a photo of the modded cars dyno sheet which is far more interesting but figured I'd leave publishing that to the owner.

Just done an 80 mile trip on a map with tweaked AFR's and the car feels significantly improved. I also fancy that the turbos whine a little earlier in the rev range and the engine sounds better (but that could just be in my head).

Interesting how much troubleshooting info you get from a dyno (3 issues identified on 3 cars). Next time mine will be running a boost controller.

Stock map = blue lines

Go on post it , he will be pished by now and won't care :)

dinger1983
20-02-2010, 11:16 PM
ok so will there be a way to tweak the ecu once in for fine tuning or will it just be set maps

Nutter_John
20-02-2010, 11:18 PM
Only way to fine tune is if you have all the equipment we have invested in to be able to do this , we are only offering maps

although we may via Eurospec setup a dyno day to allow fine tunning of our maps

Turbo_Steve
20-02-2010, 11:28 PM
And, to be fair......how much "fine tuning" are you going to want: what is it you're looking for that the factory ECU with revised ignition, boost and fuelling won't offer? :)

You'd have to have something pretty special going on to need that amount of attention.

dinger1983
20-02-2010, 11:43 PM
not so much for alteration just more on the basis that all cars are different

kinkyafro
21-02-2010, 12:06 AM
Go on post it , he will be pished by now and won't care :)


Lol well on that basis...

aboo
21-02-2010, 12:46 AM
Those graphs are looking so smooth.

dinger1983
21-02-2010, 01:34 PM
i wish lol

AlanDITD
21-02-2010, 04:03 PM
was that the graph with exhust?

Thats an awesome differnce there!

Nutter_John
21-02-2010, 04:04 PM
The second one was the heavily modded vr4 with massive fuel cut issues at 0.6 bar

John TheAntique
21-02-2010, 05:33 PM
The second one was the heavily modded vr4 with massive fuel cut issues at 0.6 bar

Love it!!!!

dinger1983
21-02-2010, 06:20 PM
The second one was the heavily modded vr4 with massive fuel cut issues at 0.6 bar
sounds familar

Wodjno
03-04-2010, 07:42 PM
Am i correct in my assumption that this is a 7201 ECU ...


Cheers

Wodj

uploaded/450/1270320128.jpg

Nutter_John
03-04-2010, 07:43 PM
Yes Glen that is a 7201

Wodjno
03-04-2010, 08:30 PM
Cheers John /yes

dinger1983
07-04-2010, 09:15 PM
ok wonderful ecu wizards the car is now running right and i now have a base for a before ecu results

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47819

just based on what you can see above will i benifit from the flashed ecu and what am i likely to see

swinks
12-04-2010, 11:52 AM
K & J any update, progress?

Nutter_John
12-04-2010, 11:56 AM
Expect an announcement in the next week or so :D

swinks
12-04-2010, 01:03 PM
/woot

foxdie
12-04-2010, 03:30 PM
/woot /woot

aboo
12-04-2010, 05:58 PM
:mexicanwav

dinger1983
12-04-2010, 06:22 PM
:iloveyou: :iloveyou: : :dance: :dance: :dance: : :dance: /bananaroc /bananaroc /bananaroc /bananaroc /thankyou /thankyou /thankyou /notworthy /notworthy megawoot /megawoot :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: /applaude /GJ /GJ :D :D :D /Poms /Poms :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

dinger1983
15-04-2010, 10:09 AM
any news mate

Nutter_John
15-04-2010, 10:56 AM
Errr I posted give us a week or so on the 12/04/10 and it is now the 15/04/10 , since when did 3 days become a week ? :P

give us a 7 day period or so and we will make an announcement

elnevio
15-04-2010, 11:57 AM
Further transgressions will result in a shooting at dawn! :rifle:

/lol

miller
15-04-2010, 12:08 PM
any news yet?

swinks
15-04-2010, 01:05 PM
Airtrek people should remain quiet! /pan

dinger1983
15-04-2010, 02:32 PM
ok forgive me soz my bad was hoping to hear somthing before i go into hospital for my back op but will have to wait

Nutter_John
15-04-2010, 02:33 PM
No worries Scott , it will give you something to look forward to when you get out and about again :)

dinger1983
15-04-2010, 02:43 PM
:sick2: :( yep wile i sit looking out my window at the car that wont be going any were

dinger1983
23-04-2010, 06:47 PM
???????????

aboo
30-04-2010, 10:54 PM
You'v had over a week. Whats happening?:)

elnevio
30-04-2010, 11:37 PM
You'v had over a week. Whats happening?:)
Maybe the one week timer restarts every time someone asks! /haz

aboo
30-04-2010, 11:41 PM
I think your right Nev /yes

Nutter_John
30-04-2010, 11:42 PM
Maybe the one week timer restarts every time someone asks! /haz

Damn we have been caught out :)

We will give a full update on Weds next week , we are due to have the final dyno session next weekend which will give us the final tune

aboo
30-04-2010, 11:47 PM
Looking forward to seeing the graphs/yes

elnevio
30-04-2010, 11:52 PM
Shhh! You keep resetting the timer! /pan


Looking forward to this. Would a 'standard' remap be able to go straight in both a stock VR-4 or a mildly modified one (e.g. exhaust, filter, decat, boost controller), without the need for a different map? In the latter example, would the boost controller need deleting?

Nutter_John
30-04-2010, 11:56 PM
No the boost controller could stay , and yes we are aiming to cater for the pre-modified car as well as the stock

aboo
01-05-2010, 12:01 AM
I thought the boost would be set with the map?

Nutter_John
01-05-2010, 12:02 AM
Yes but you don't need to use an external boost controller unless you want to (external controller will allow you to get more out of it )

aboo
01-05-2010, 12:14 AM
So what your saying is you'll up the boost with the map then if you have a MBC or EBC you can up it some more?

dinger1983
01-05-2010, 08:22 AM
So what your saying is you'll up the boost with the map then if you have a MBC or EBC you can up it some more?
just the same as you have now just a different map realy

dinger1983
01-05-2010, 08:32 AM
pre-modified car as well as the stock

is this not the same thing

so there will be a map for stock cars

and modified with( exhaust ,de-cat, air filter ,fmic , fuel pump) ist that about righ

evonut270
01-05-2010, 09:25 AM
John/kinky

Some very nice work going on here. I have a question. How will you cater for the cars you do in respect to different specs like intakes and exhaust systems effects on AFRs? Or is it more of a set tune

dinger1983
01-05-2010, 10:14 AM
check post 64

evonut270
01-05-2010, 01:32 PM
check post 64
Thanks mate but my question still stands as per post 105

col1n
01-05-2010, 06:10 PM
crackin work chaps/Banana , im gonny be after one of these soon after the next service

evonut270
02-05-2010, 12:23 AM
To john and kinky

iv just started dissassembly on the 7201 rom on the first page. I have found 4 fuel tables and the ign tables. I have a bit more work to do finding more as I only spent about 30 mins finding the tables and writing an XML to read the rom in ecuflash

Nutter_John
03-05-2010, 11:14 AM
we already have them all in an xml file(not in the public domain ) but the issue is that the rom will not flash with via the obp , hence why we have gone to the effort in spending lots of money investing in the equipment to remove the roms and replace them , also the time and money testing tweaked maps on a dyno rather then a road .

To answer you question from post 105 we have 3 maps that have been tweak on the conservative side of tuning rather than pushing to the limt , so if some has a dp , zorst and air filter then there ecu we send them will be closest to that setup or if they are stock and just want a little more boost etc

evonut270
03-05-2010, 11:31 AM
we already have them all in an xml file(not in the public domain ) but the issue is that the rom will not flash with via the obp , hence why we have gone to the effort in spending lots of money investing in the equipment to remove the roms and replace them , also the time and money testing tweaked maps on a dyno rather then a road .

can the rom be read via the obd port though? if not do you have a screenshot of the error when it tries to read/write?

Nutter_John
03-05-2010, 11:32 AM
We have never managed to get the rom to read via the obp port , not ogt a screen shot

evonut270
03-05-2010, 11:35 AM
We have never managed to get the rom to read via the obp port , not ogt a screen shotdo you know anyone that can try it?

Nutter_John
03-05-2010, 11:36 AM
no not with a tactrix 2.0 cable

evonut270
03-05-2010, 11:39 AM
no not with a tactrix 2.0 cableah ok.what did you use to try to read it?

Nutter_John
03-05-2010, 11:42 AM
a tactrix 2.0 cable , 1.3 cable , an standard obp, vagcom cable


I don't have a vr4

evonut270
03-05-2010, 11:44 AM
a tactrix 2.0 cable , 1.3 cable , an standard obp, vagcom cable


I don't have a vr4thanks john

dinger1983
05-05-2010, 10:13 AM
good luck today looking forward to the results

dinger1983
05-05-2010, 07:56 PM
ignone my last post missread post 97

Nutter_John
08-05-2010, 06:45 PM
Ok people we have completed the second stage tunning on the ecu test that we have been running .

The good news is that we have had some real positive results and are making huge steps towards getting them ready for full release .

Well let me set the scene before giving you the headlines whcih I'm sure you will be amazed with . All work has been tested on a stock VR4 with only a decat pipe fitted , so the boost control is done via the ecu , the downpipes and exhaust are as fitted by Mr Mitsubishi . The figures for the car before we started to do any changes to the ecu are 171 bhp ATW (225ft/lb ish ) @ 0.5 bar , as a failry standard amount for a stcok car , this translates to 241 cvr4-fly-bhp.

After 2 hrs + of solid dyno time today we managed to get the following results without touching any timming or altering anything on the car mechanically . So here goes , are you all sat down ? , deep breath , drum roll ............ Our tune did the following 209bhp atw (325ft/lb) @1.1 bar ( 1.1 bar until 4500 then tails down to 0.8 at redline ) no fuel cut , this all works out at 295 cvr4-fly -bhp .

We still have some further work to do but I think you will aggree that a stock vr4 running no external boost control to reech 295bhp is very good .

Over the next few days we are going to road test the new map to ensure that we have a nice stable tune and then will work out how much further to push it .


We did speak with Ben today and being such a great guy he has allowed us to offer fitting at the rolling road day in June , this would allow us to see a before and after and ensure everything is safe on your car , this will be arranged further over this week as well

anyway time to take a chill pill as I'm buzzing after today /notworthy ,

Thanks Ben, Mark and Roman for being Eurospec :D

Wodjno
08-05-2010, 06:49 PM
Nice 1 /yes

So i take it the fueling was adjusted yes

Look forward to the finished article /yes

Nutter_John
08-05-2010, 06:50 PM
Yes we raised fuel but still left a huge margin in there

Wodjno
08-05-2010, 06:53 PM
Yes we raised fuel but still left a huge margin in there

Makes a whole load of difference to the torque figure doesn't it.. /yes Just taking out a Tad of fuel :evil2:

Nutter_John
08-05-2010, 06:55 PM
Most of the torque came from the boost rise , the fueling was just to trim it , will be pushing timming a little more as I'd like to get over 300bhp from a stock car , that would mean no one could complain about ebay sellers claiming 300 :D

kinkyafro
08-05-2010, 06:55 PM
what John said.../Banana

Having never run more then stock boost I can safely say the car hasn't made me smile this much since I got it.

I'll be at Castle Combe on Saturday so there is potential for a couple of people to try a retuned ecu out - Apologies to the track day warriors but it's not going on the track as it needs testing on a few different cars in appropriate conditions...

Once again thanks to the gents at Eurospec.

Rich.

aboo
08-05-2010, 07:07 PM
WOW!!!!

If you can manage to get 300bhp from a stock VR4 what are you going to get from a moded VR4.

Well done NJ & Kinky.

Do you have any graphs for us to drool over?

Nutter_John
08-05-2010, 07:12 PM
I had a too shoot off straight after the mapping and never collected them , Rich forgot as well . But I will drive over later this week and collect them

kinkyafro
08-05-2010, 07:13 PM
Do you have any graphs for us to drool over?


Umm I assumed NJ got them and he assumed I picked them up :o

But I believe Bens system retains all the runs so we will hopefully get them sooner or later.

aboo
08-05-2010, 07:15 PM
what John said.../Banana

Having never run more then stock boost I can safely say the car hasn't made me smile this much since I got it.

I'll be at Castle Combe on Saturday so there is potential for a couple of people to try a retuned ecu out - Apologies to the track day warriors but it's not going on the track as it needs testing on a few different cars in appropriate conditions...

Once again thanks to the gents at Eurospec.

Rich.What do you mean by trying a retuned ECU out?

kinkyafro
08-05-2010, 07:19 PM
What do you mean by trying a retuned ECU out?

Exactly that stick it in a car with evoscan running, have a trundle around and see what you think.

aboo
08-05-2010, 07:22 PM
I dont have Evoscan so that will count me out:(

kinkyafro
08-05-2010, 07:25 PM
I dont have Evoscan so that will count me out:(

I'll be bringing it however your car probably isn't a good choice with it's mod list think the MBC would need to be turned off/removed for a start.

aboo
08-05-2010, 07:34 PM
May be get a run in your one then Kinky.?

See how it compares to mine as the figures are not a million miles away from what I'm running from my last rolling road.

dinger1983
08-05-2010, 07:48 PM
oh im a wee bit moist great work boys im realy intrested in what you can do with the modded vr4 now

foxdie
08-05-2010, 07:57 PM
Kudos where it's due, I never expected you guys would squeeze so much out of it with only a decat.

Can you guys start to speculate what we may start to see with a better intake, decat, boost controller (manual or electronic), downpipes etc?

Rep given to both NJ and Kinky :)

aboo
08-05-2010, 08:01 PM
Kudos where it's due, I never expected you guys would squeeze so much out of it with only a decat.

Can you guys start to speculate what we may start to see with a better intake, decat, boost controller (manual or electronic), downpipes etc?Jason they'v got almost 50bhp out of a standard VR4. I would say at least 60/70bhp from a moded VR4.

kinkyafro
08-05-2010, 08:04 PM
May be get a run in your one then Kinky.?

See how it compares to mine as the figures are not a million miles away from what I'm running from my last rolling road.

I'm alright with that - much easier then pulling ecu's out anyway...

Nutter_John
08-05-2010, 08:08 PM
piece of string Jason , not easy to say as the BHP may stay close but the torque and rate of rise may change .

There is no need for a manual boost valve as we control the boost via the ecu .

Adding a electronic boost controller will allow you to run more boost beyond 4500 but we are working on a solution to give us more boost between 4500 and 6000 rpm , thus giving a flater torque line .

The exhaust and intake , downpipes alter the way the engine can consume air and expell used air , so the DP will allow the turbos to spool quicker and produce more boost low down , but this has to be held back as to not over load the TC on an auto , the exhaust will allow us to get the air out quicker and maintain the boost higher , the air intake means we can suck more in with less resistance . All these dynamics help alter the area under the grpah and the rate at which changes occur , it's not all about the headlines the way the car drives is what matters , to that end the stock tweak we have now got makes the VR4 feel alive and more what it should have been from the factory .

aboo
08-05-2010, 08:14 PM
I'm alright with that - much easier then pulling ecu's out anyway...Look forward to it Kinky/yes

aboo
08-05-2010, 08:19 PM
Rep has been given to both of you.

Once you both get this sorted who's going to need an Evo? By the sounds of it the VR4's will be giving them a real run for there money.:)

kinkyafro
08-05-2010, 08:24 PM
Jason they'v got almost 50bhp out of a standard VR4. I would say at least 60/70bhp from a moded VR4.

probably sensible to assume a 14 year old car with 80k miles will have lost about 20hp before adding those numbers on (that was the case with mine anyway). I'm going to refrain from commenting on modded vr4 improvement as they will probably already have upped boost and I really don't know what to expect. Looking forward to finding out though :)

evonut270
08-05-2010, 08:45 PM
nice work john/kinky.are you using the stock boost control solenoid or have you went to 3 port yet?

Nutter_John
08-05-2010, 09:02 PM
Just the stock bleed off , we will be trying a 3 port at some point

Turbo_Steve
08-05-2010, 09:47 PM
I think, Jason, what you're missing is the improvement in overall driveability. Whilst the peak-power numbers on a standard car may not set the world on fire, a remap will transform this car: The fuel maps keep it boggy as hell!

As for other modifications - it's going to depend what the next restriction is.
Given what others have found, the exhaust system seems to be the first major restriction. The next is probably an airfilter, and then the turbos: they start running hot, and the intercooler can't cope. You can go for a bigger intercooler to max out the existing turbos - or get something bigger (more efficient for that flow rating).

foxdie
08-05-2010, 10:21 PM
I guess what I'm trying to determine is where the "road goes", in so much as, now we've got remappable ECUs, where's the next bottleneck like you say.

I'm purely thinking out aloud here, and this is slightly OT for this post, but it would be nice to have a tree diagram of where we're going, ie. what upgrade paths are available and how far they've been developed / researched.. Something like this (just quickly threw this together):

uploaded/51922/1273353610.png

Turbo_Steve
08-05-2010, 10:35 PM
That's pretty much impossible, Jason: it takes the simplistic view that all you want to do is increase your power output. Whilst most people do, there are trade offs, at each step, and with each route chosen. There is always a cheap way and an expensive way: both will get you there, but one carries more compromises than the other. Usually.

foxdie
08-05-2010, 10:36 PM
Yep and I'm just thinking that if we start laying it all out, we can get a picture of what all the pros and cons are from going down a particular route :)

Rossco Type-S
08-05-2010, 11:18 PM
Rep has been given to both of you.

Once you both get this sorted who's going to need an Evo? By the sounds of it the VR4's will be giving them a real run for there money.:)

True...but only if if the Evo is not reflashed! It is easy to get 220 to 230Kw at the wheels from an evo with a reflash a MBC and a new fuel pump.

foxdie
15-05-2010, 11:22 AM
Hi NJ / Kinky, any further updates please? Will be wanting one of these possibly on the RR day next month :)

Nutter_John
15-05-2010, 11:40 AM
we are back on the rollers before the RR and will be at the RR day to sell them

foxdie
15-05-2010, 11:47 AM
Sweet, keep us updated with dynograph porn :D

giblet
15-05-2010, 12:47 PM
Will you guys be able to offer the same map on a 7202? I would rather come down to the dyno day and get you guys to flash mine than muck about with a laptop and a cable myself

Nutter_John
15-05-2010, 07:05 PM
we are not in the market to be doing 7202's at this stage , but if you have a word with Ben then I'm sure he will sort you out , it will not be able to be done as part of the RR day due the lenght of time on the dyno needed

Longbow77
16-05-2010, 05:02 PM
Hi, when and where will this RR Day be? I guess you will need to book a slot in advance? Any idea on cost? Thanks!!

Wodjno
16-05-2010, 05:04 PM
Hi, when and where will this RR Day be? I guess you will need to book a slot in advance? Any idea on cost? Thanks!!

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48137&highlight=eurospec

Jesus-Ninja
16-05-2010, 10:31 PM
Right - subscribed. :)

Just going to wait now until there's a juicy chip that will match all my mods :D

Any thoughts about leaning the car out on cruise as well, to take some of the sting out of mpg?

Kieran
16-05-2010, 10:38 PM
Fox - I'm liking the idea of your 'mental map'. What did you use to create that?

foxdie
16-05-2010, 11:30 PM
I used Omnigraffle on my Mac, can crack stuff like this out easily if needed, or maybe design some web interface or something.

Wobble
16-05-2010, 11:40 PM
am intrested in this NJ will need to talk to you on the rr day i think , mine is bog standard if you wanna play /lol

Nutter_John
16-05-2010, 11:49 PM
No worries Bog standard is good , although our recomendation will be to have a fuel pump and a decat ( fuel pump is a safety mod as we have seen weak pumps running high afrs )

dinger1983
17-05-2010, 08:38 AM
was at knockhill yesterday spoke to the guy that dyno'd my car told him about the ecu beeing dune and how well you guy had dune his replie was brilant "f**k off realy " he was well impressed he was even more impressed when i told him that it was the safe tune and not maxed out crazy lol

and also hes got some guy coming up from england for 2 days to do aload of skyline tunes so if the numbers are right there will be know issue with getting you up for tuning on the jocks cars if the numbers are right but cant see that being any problem at all and with the fuel cost alone being around the £300 mark for a round trip to eurospec if the jocks thing there saving on that they will we well happy were tight up here you know

Nutter_John
17-05-2010, 10:24 AM
excellent Scott

Longbow77
17-05-2010, 01:38 PM
Ok, I've asked to be booked into the dyno day on the other thread. Look forward to discussing the chip options on the day. Thanks.

Jesus-Ninja
17-05-2010, 01:52 PM
John - I did read this thread last night, but are you saying you're going to do some tinkering with maps at the RR day at Eurospec.

If you wanted to have a play with a modded VR4, let me know.

Atik
17-05-2010, 02:07 PM
Hot dang!

Just caught up with the last three pages on this thread and am well impressed with the results so far, especially as its all on a stock car!

Would be keen to see how a 7201 fares with a fairly modded VR4, and especially against a 7202 ECU.

foxdie
27-05-2010, 11:14 AM
Bump! Any news on this guys? There's been no official announcement post yet nor have you guys outlined whats going to happen on the RR day ie. how many units you'll have with you, whether you're sure they'll be for sale at that time etc :)

Details please! :)

Nutter_John
27-05-2010, 12:45 PM
Still being worked on Jason , we are in the process of testing the current batch on different cars to ensure everything is good .

Hopefully we will have 10 available for the RR day

foxdie
27-05-2010, 12:47 PM
Putting dibs on one right now :)

Nutter_John
27-05-2010, 12:50 PM
wait until we put up an official post next weekend :)

we should be able to turn around 5-10 per week once we get going

aboo
27-05-2010, 04:57 PM
wait until we put up an official post next weekend :)

we should be able to turn around 5-10 per week once we get goingThats a good turn around John.

Hope your making a trip up to Jockland soon/yes

lancerevo3
27-05-2010, 06:19 PM
might be a stupid question but are these set up for lower octane fuel?i dont remember reading it in the posts ,


mark

djb160
27-05-2010, 11:21 PM
Just on a semi related note; Do you have any figures from fuel consumption due to the changes?

Nutter_John
28-05-2010, 10:55 AM
1) we have not altered any parts that will effect long term fuel consumption , but this is something we are discussing for our next version
2) We can produce a map that is better suited to usage on 95 ron , but you will be running at reduced performance to compensate for this drop in octane - this is not part of our first release
3) Andy once the Eurospec rolling road is done We will start to canvas you boys up north about doing a dyno fitting day etc

aboo
28-05-2010, 05:39 PM
3) Andy once the Eurospec rolling road is done We will start to canvas you boys up north about doing a dyno fitting day etc

Nice one John. Look forward to seeing some graphs from some of the VR4's that get it done at Eurospec.

lancerevo3
28-05-2010, 08:21 PM
thanks john

dinger1983
03-06-2010, 08:42 PM
can i have one

Wobble
06-06-2010, 01:55 PM
bumpty bump. any news on this yet, RR day getting ever closer.
;) cash pending i want one

Beastlee
06-06-2010, 09:23 PM
Have spent the evening reviewing all the threads about flashing and have a ROM for my MD340289 ECU but no maps. I don't want to flash mine right now but am interested to know if an ECUFlash XML file is available so I can look at what the stock setup is.
My only real interest in the flash right now is to remove the speed limiter so I can reconnect the wire to the ECU and log speeds in Evoscan

AderC
07-06-2010, 09:32 PM
Copy of the XML file I'm currently using is attached

aDe

bigsed
20-07-2010, 08:29 PM
Delete me! Found the new thread! Ta

Jesus-Ninja
22-07-2010, 10:48 AM
Delete me! Found the new thread! Ta

New thread, what new thread? Link?

bigsed
22-07-2010, 02:45 PM
This thread seems to have taken over now:
http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49718

mxc357
31-01-2023, 06:30 PM
Do you still do tunes for a 7201ecu?