auto or manual???

[seamybaby]

im looking for a legnum.........

how reliable are the auto boxes on these cars?:thinking2

i have found a car,but the fact its auto is putting me off it a bit....

any help would be appreciated

thanks

[kiteman]

You'll get as many opinions on this topic as there are owners out there.
Look up the for sale section, there are a few you might want to look at and one of them is mine.
Its a manual and its in Ireland.
To answer your question, I'm strongly in favour of manual, but I'm sure you'll get the other side of the arguement pretty soon.

[Atik]

The auto-boxes are actually very good smart boxes. Capable of running forever, provided they are looked after well. The right oils and regular servicing will help maintain it and keep it from breaking down.

That said, there have been a few 'unknown' failures, like mine, which was a well looked after gearbox with regular servicing and good oils.

Its a mixed bag, but the vast majority of owners here are auto owners and aside from Brad who ALWAYS bashes the autos, most people will say that the auto boxes are well worth a test drive. They are surprisingly much better than you expect if you have any doubts.

Take it for a test drive and then make up your mind. A manual will be much harder to come across as they are much rarer and you will probably pay a little more for a manual example.

[Confused]

The automatic (tiptronic) gearbox is good. But, the "problem" with a short test drive in an auto is that you don't get long enough to learn how the gearbox works, and learn how to make the most out of it.


Once you have learnt when to hit the +/- on the shifter so that it'll change at the point you want it to, you can drive it very fast and very aggressively.


But - as I said - on a short test drive, you won't get to know it well enough, so you may find yourself frustrated with the shifting. Especially if it's been driven "sedately" recently - the gearbox will have leant that, and might do some quite "lazy" shifts until it realises it's being driven hard again ;)


Anyway - definitely look at a tiptronic, they are good boxes, and suit the car well, but just bear in mind you won't learn on a short test drive how to use it to its full advantage. Hell, even 6 months down the line, I'm still learning how to use mine best, I'm learning on it all the time! ;)

[Atik]

Yep, as Confused added, a short test drive wont give you the full experience of an auto box. The box is 'smart' and 'learns' the shift patterns of the last few hundred miles or so. Therfore, if the car has been driven sedately recently, the gearbox would be in sedate mode in full auto.

It also took me about 6 months to just begin to get used to the tip mode. Once you get the hang of it, the car becomes a whole different driving experience.

But anyway, the auto boxes are very good /yes

[Gowf]

As has been said, there have been numerous debates/clashes of opinion on the subject and so im going to throw in my 2p's worth.

1stly when i bought mine i said there is no way i want an auto so spent months looking for a decent manual. Now having been a member on here, and working on and driving other members cars i have had resonable experience of the auto's and yes as auto's go they are pretty good. But I'm sorry to say they are still not quite up there with a manual in terms of shift.

So it all depends on how you drive and what you want out of the car. For as i said, although i was impressed with how the autos drive, the shift is still not controlled enough. Basically the change isnt instantaneous (im talking on with the clutch pedal here as well) from the drivers input as it is with a manual, it is slightly delayed. So even now i wouldnt have one as i could not give up the controlability of the manual.

So some good and bad points:

Requires more costly general maintenance than the manual (if you negate clutch changes),
Sapps more power through the drive train than the manual
The torque convertor seals do leak after a time
Youve got to deal with the torque convertor loading up before it moves any faster.
They generally have worse fuel economy than the manuals
They can have random electrical issues (whereas the manuals can only have mechanical and generally dont)

BUT;
they have longer gear ratios than the manual and so are a bit nicer on cruise and have a higher (theoretical) top speed.

Oh and you can drive them easily if you only have 1 leg

I know my opinion may be biased but all are valid points, as is the rarity of the manuals. As i said, its what you want out of it thats most important, but do drive one before you rule it out.

You want to add anything Brad?

[bradc]

Gowf above is 100% correct. The autos overall do have more problems and these problems often aren't caused by anything in particular. They are good gearboxes to drive with though, better than any other Auto I've driven, but they still weigh 50kg more than a manual, sap power, cause big headaches if you want to change to an aftermarket ecu and as above, die more often and cost more to maintain.

Take both for a drive and decide for yourself.

[Turbo_Steve]

My opinion is that if you're buying a "daily driver" that you're going to use in traffic, for long journeys and with the family, you simply can't beat the auto.

It's more of a compromise than the manual, but it's harder to break short of leaving it in the wrong gear for miles on end.



If you're after a more dynamic and sporty car, then the manual is the way to go. But to be frank, if you're after a "dynamic and sporty car" and unless you really really REALLY need an estate car, then an Evo is cheaper to run, cheaper to tune, faster and a more involvling drive.

VR4 is a grown up, practical car with a relatively relaxing demeanour, a goodly amount of power and excellent pace.

Similar Evo is an all out rapid car that's more tiring and annoying on the motorway, but devastatingly quick and involving.

The manual VR4s are a lot more fun than the autos...but there's more fun available elsewhere :D :D

[miller]

I agree with Steve, if Manual is a matter of life and death as it is to a number of people then i cant see the point of the VR4 for you. well maybe the estate version.

Otherwise why not an EVO all the way, my god my eyes have been opened since owning a car with the 4G63 engine. The amount of modifications readily available is phenomenal.


Just my tuppence seen as every one else is wading into the 800 year war :violin:

[Gowf]

True but the reason i didnt purchase an evo is that they have turned into the mitsubishi clitoris. yes they are awesome and if i had the cash i would buy a GPN 7RS for competition, but for the road i wanted something a little more unusual. The power delivery in the 6a13 is also better in my humble opinion due to the superior torque that it has.

But i do agree, horses for courses and all that

[elnevio]

the mitsubishi clitoris
I bet that model's really difficult to find! :D


I also agree with Steve and Mike generally. I.e. If you are giving advice to somebody when buying a VR-4, then the auto makes the most sense. If you are getting a manual, then something more focused is required, IMO. E.g. Evo, Impreza, etc.

But emphasis here is on the 'generally'. There are going to be projects which are not part of the mainstream. E.g. the SWoC! But these are generally exceptions. Exceptions that make this place great, I might add! :thumbsup:


I've noticed this when driving the Leggie again earlier today. It is so relaxing and super smooth! And having the manual 4G63T in the RVR at our disposal gives us the 'more fun' option when required! Although Mrs B does of course have the 'more fun' option on a daily basis...

[Atik]

That said, the manual VR4s CAN be driven like a cruiser. The gear changes are not rock hard, the clutch is not that stiff. I can happily drive keeping the revs below 2250rpm around town.

But yeah, as has been discussed above, if you are after a speed machine, go for the Evo or similar. The VR4 is a fast cruiser and is superbly comfortable with the right seats, read heated leather seats /yes

[Turbo_Steve]

Mrs B does of course have the 'more fun' option on a daily basis...

So it's true: girls have more fun!


And yes, the advice above is to help choose the right car. If you're dead set on a VR4 then an Evo (or RVR, impreza, skyline, M3) all become moot points.

[AlanDITD]

Well i bought mine somewhat uneducated, alll these guys are correct. I saw twin turbos V6 280hp etc etc and thought wow thats gonna be a point and go kinda car.

Its not, but after i discovered what it actually was, i fell for it even more. The autos are great mine was, it may break one day who knows but for somthing you can drive round effortlessly and comfortably and then feel like some b road blasting you cant go far wrong.

It will never be as fast or as capable as an evo. But then you cant fit half your house in the boot of an evo and still have as much fun.

I miss mine :(

[seamybaby]

i have had an evo 5 and 6 also a sti impreza,so thanks for the input there guys but i was just asking about the auto box.......its reliability against the manual one..............

still undecided to be honest................cant exactly just go and drive both as there is none for sale in northern ireland.................

[elnevio]

Good point! Somewhat disappearing down a slight tangent! :D


For what it's worth, the auto is a good box, and pretty reliable on balance. The manual is just more reliable as there's less clever wizardry to go wrong!

[Turbo_Steve]

If it's just reliability you're after, then TBH they're both about the same, in fact the manuals actually seem slightly more prone to the cables and plastic bushings and stuff wearing / failing, though this is relatively cheap and easy to fix.

When the autos fail, they seem to fail pretty catastrophically. Many who track their cars have found that using the best gearbox oil (amsoil) and an extra gearbox cooler generally ensures the fluid lasts.

Generally, the gearboxes seem okay if you monitor the fluid condition fairly regularly. Unfortunately, if they've been abused at any point in their life (in Japan or in the UK) then it seems it does rather shorten their life.
As above, some seem to suffer from leaks around the TC seal, which is a royal PITA to fix, but again not the end of the world.

I put £700 to one side in case my auto or my AYC failed (expecting both) in the first year...and they've yet to let me down 40,000miles later!

[Gowf]

I suppose you can say that you cant use the statistical approach based on failure due to the few numbers of manuals out there. However i will say this, there is far less to go wrong in a manual, when they do go wrong they are an easy fix as bits are readily available.

Your choice though mate and as with everything, treat it well and you'l be fine whatever the option

[bradc]

I agree with Atik's point about them being easy to drive around town, the stock clutch is light and progressive and the gear changes are really easy to make. I have no problems when I drive either my pair of VR-4's or my ST-R (non turbo version) in traffic.

[kiteman]

i have had an evo 5 and 6 also a sti impreza,so thanks for the input there guys but i was just asking about the auto box.......its reliability against the manual one..............

still undecided to be honest................cant exactly just go and drive both as there is none for sale in northern ireland.................
Why dont you look up "donedeal.ie" last time I looked there are 7 VR4's (both galant + legnum, manual + tiptronic) on it for sale. Nearest one to you is in longford.
Its for sale by gallvr4, a member here.

[miller]

Its for sale by gallvr4, a member here.
i think thats a hangover from dark days in the boglands :sick2: :laugh:

[kiteman]

i think thats a hangover from dark days in the boglands :sick2: :laugh:
Sorry Mike but that one went right over my head, honest./duh /duh /duh

[miller]

Sorry Mike but that one went right over my head, honest./duh /duh /duh

Brendan put it up for sale earlier this year when it looked like he may be job hunting. That wasnt the case and he is keeping it now AFAIK :2thumbsup :2thumbsup

[kiteman]

Brendan put it up for sale earlier this year when it looked like he may be job hunting. That wasnt the case and he is keeping it now AFAIK :2thumbsup :2thumbsup
I spoke to him last weekend and its still for sale.