Only uphill???

[dannyh]

Strange problem has arisen, when going up a long gradient, my tiptronic box doesn`t want to change into 4th, the engine management light comes on and stays on and it locks into 3rd gear. Get on level ground, no difference, but if I switch off and then startup again, it`s all back to normal, has happened 4 times now in as many days, oil level seems ok, oil a little discoloured, not bright red, but certainly not brown, never had any problems before, although gearchanges lately have seemed a little harsh at times, any ideas would be great
Thanks
Danny

[elnevio]

Sounds like it's going into 'limp home' mode.

It's possible that the ATF is actually too worn out, despite its colour - may even be the wrong fluid for the INVECS box. Wrong fluid will cause harsh changes.

The INVECS boxes need Mitsubishi SP-III compliant ATF. The best you can give your gearbox is Amsoil's ATF. But it will need a full flush and drain, not just a case of draining and refilling the sump, as about half of the ATF remains in the gearbox - so it needs to be pumped out.

I assume that Kieran's article on flushing and changing the ATF applies to the INVECS auto boxes as fitted to 2.0 and V6 cars, as well as the VR-4? Perhaps someone can confirm that.

Either way, I'd put money on a full flush and change with new SP-III or Amsoil ATF making it better than it ever was before!

[dannyh]

Thanks for that Nev, I want to find out as much as possible before attempting a fix, so every comment helps

[Turbo_Steve]

What he said. -nods-

People who have shuddering / gear lock when it's under heavy load generally seem find that a full flush and change with decent fluid resolves it.

Be aware that a full flush and change with Amsoil is NOT cheap!!!!
It may be worth pricing it with amsoil and with regular mitsubishi SPIII.

Just another thought, but how are you checking the fluid level in the box?
If you're checking it when you check the engine oil, it will always look full.

You need to have the car fully warmed up and driven, then come to a stop on a flat surface (your favourite multistorey tends to be pretty good) and then go to P,R,N,D,N,R,N, leave it in Neutral and hop out and check the ATF level as quick as you can.

[dannyh]

Thanks Steve, yes I have been checking it the way you suggest, do you know any suppliers of the two oils you recommend?

[bradc]

Do you have any idea at all about what sort of oil might be in there at the moment?

[dannyh]

None whatsoever, had the car getting on for 3 yrs now, I haven`t changed it, but then again I only do maybe 5k a year, searched through my service history, lots of it, mostly Mitsubishi, and there is just about everything else, but no ATF fluid change recorded, just been out in it, and drove in Tiptronic, drove very steady, but would not go into 4th, instead it locked up again in 3rd, quick switch off and on again and alls fine, you can tell when it`s about to happen the revs just sit at one level and the big orange engine light comes on, I haven`t got a clue myself, had it in the garage for a complete belt kit change and plugs 2 days before, but I can`t imagine any connection there, don`t want to take it back to that garage as he didn`t fit the plugs I asked for, so I won`t be going there again.

[richy rich]

As Nev said, also your oil is to old.

[elnevio]

Just to clarify, the engine should still be running when you check it while in N. As you have the tip box, you should cycle through 1 and 2 also (P > R > N > D > 1 > 2 > 1 > D > N > R > P > R > N > D > 1 > 2 > 1 > D > N). I think the advice is to pause a second or two between each selection. For anyone else looking at this, remember to put the handbrake on!

CVR4 members get a healthy discount on Amsoil. The discount threads are available under the Resources - Club Discounts link near the top left of the page. However, here's a direct link: http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13815

[Turbo_Steve]

?? Why did I think it was a 4-speed?

[dannyh]

It is a 4 speed box, manual side 1-2-3-4, auto side P-R-N-D

[elnevio]

Still INVECS-II like the VR-4, Steve, just without the 5th gear. The older autos were also 4-speed, but without the tip option.

[Turbo_Steve]

I am humbled by your historical accuracies, oh master :D

[dannyh]

Spoke to my local mitsi dealer today, they have SP III atf, guarantee me it`s not Dexron....£6.60 a litre, in 40 ltr drums, will supply it if I bring my own containers, would want to see the drum label myself though, just to be sure, I asked them how much they would charge to do it, and I said I wanted the whole lot emptied out including the torque converter, wait for it, "yes we can do that, but we will have to remove the gearbox", I told them that that was nonsense, and they could pump it out through the oil cooler feed hose, but they just didn`t get it?. Anyway at £80 plus vat an hour, I dont think so.
So I`ll get the oil, provided it`s correct, on saturday, and have a go at it myself, if anyones got anymore tips I would appreciate it. I have sucked a small amount of atf through the dipstick hole tis afternoon, and it`s a lot worse than it looks when you dip it, black coffee would be a good description, will post a pic later when I figure out how to do it.

[elnevio]

Yep - sounds like your ATF is definitely screwed! I also believe that the 'pumping it out through the oil cooler feed' method is not endorsed by the manufacturer, possibly due to the possibility of running the gearbox dry. Though as long as you keep the fresh fluid going in as quick as the old comes out, then you will be fine.

This is Kieran's ATF changing thread on the VR-4: http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10475

Hopefully, someone can confirm that it is pretty much the same procedure to flush and change the fluid on the 4-speed INVECS-II. Ideally a two person job, so have an assistant ready!

[dannyh]

just noticed that camskill recommend Coma Dexron III for FTO/GTO Mitsis, this is very confusing, as the 2 ltr GLS Galant has the same Engine and Tiptronic box as the FTO ...???????
I think my head just might explode soon

[elnevio]

They also recommend it for the VR-4.

Which is simply wrong. Unless it is specifically SP-III compliant (and usually anything that mentions Dexron III isn't!), don't use it.

You can also try speaking to Hyundai, as a lot of their autos use Mitsi technology. They do an SP-III ATF, and you might find it's cheaper. And possibly comes self contained!

[bradc]

I have NEVER seen inside a 4 cylinder 8G auto engine bay, however according to ASA the same pair of metal pipes come out of the gearbox and go into the radiator as on a VR-4, so the articles will be applicable.

[dannyh]

Trans oil change will be on monday, but a strange thing happened today, I had to disconnect the battery, and the tickover went tits up, well thanks to all the wonderful people in this club it was sorted within 30mins, fantastic, strange thing is, it`s no longer going into limp home mode, tried it in auto and manual and it doesn`t happen, must have been the ecu reset, so as I said, complete flush, fill and filter on monday, and then I`ll have to teach that sucker to change silky smooth. What a great club, so glad I joined you guys!, Thanks
Danny