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View Full Version : Lower arm failure... another one



miller
03-11-2009, 05:29 PM
One more to the growing list, again at very low speed thankfully. Reversing into car parking space and booomf.

Quote from subsequent garage who have it still is quite large as it incorporated all new items from Mitsubishi incl wing and bumper. AA dropped it when lifting it off the low loader from what i can gather which has produced the bumper like it is.

Incl in the qoute is a new driveshaft. This garage is highly recommended and well known in the EVO world, are stating it needs replacing, the guy i was speaking to is ralliart trained and had 20plus years experience with Mitsubishi and has seen all this before. So i dare'nt argue with that /notworthy

Whats your thoughts on this? to those that have seen this before?
Will the drive shaft go back in?
If so will it need just a new gaitor?

So coupled with the above, a new lower arm together with alignment should see this safely back on the road until the wrangling bewteen owner and AA is sorted for bodywork damages?

White Lightning
03-11-2009, 05:36 PM
Ouch ...!

Any ideas who the lower arm was supplied by?

I can't tell from the photos ... has the spider assy on the end of the driveshaft leg been damaged?

miller
03-11-2009, 05:43 PM
i think its an original part at the moment. furher investigation needed.

Im not sure in the end condition of the drive shaft as i couldnt get under the car, these pics are taken just holding the camera under it. This one you can slightly see end of it...

White Lightning
03-11-2009, 05:47 PM
I still can't see the spider, sorry.

Original part eh? That's scary if it was ...

sanct
03-11-2009, 05:57 PM
Oww at least you weren't at pace.
Had it shown any signs of wear either with noise or stiffness of steering before hand?

Ryan
03-11-2009, 08:27 PM
I'm pleased that you walked away from this Mike. Just one question, isn't your car grey though?

The one in the pic seems to be FL and trigger mauve colour?

Davezj
03-11-2009, 08:31 PM
gutted for you miller.

makes me want to get my recal done soon.

the outer end of the drive shaft doesn't look too good as this should be held in place very well as this has a proper constant velocity joint under the boot, but the inner end can be pulled out quite easily with out any damage apart from the need for a new boot.
personally i would get a second hand drive shaft and a new mitsi lower arm and that should get you back on the road.

elnevio
03-11-2009, 08:32 PM
Not Mike's car, but a friend's. I could have sworn he mentioned that in his post, but I can't see it now? I think I'm going mad...

scott.mohekey
03-11-2009, 08:57 PM
Not Mike's car, but a friend's. I could have sworn he mentioned that in his post, but I can't see it now? I think I'm going mad...

I thought the same Nev, but he replied to Brad's post about lower arms and mentioned it there.

miller
03-11-2009, 08:59 PM
Nevs right, its a friends motor and i mentioned in another thread of Brads about it.

wintertidenz
03-11-2009, 09:06 PM
That's a bit scary - how many miles/km did that genuine arm have on it? Sounds like these arms almost need to be done as a service item every time the cambelt is done!

Nutter_John
04-11-2009, 02:42 AM
Thats a lot of distortion on the driveshaft , I don't think from that viewing angle that it is wise to try and re-use it .

orionn2o
04-11-2009, 09:45 AM
Its down to luck Mike.

The first time I had a ball joint go, we re-used the same drive shaft . The second time, it got ruined.. Sorry to see it happen, I would be interested to hear if there were symptoms beforehand?

orionn2o
04-11-2009, 09:49 AM
i think its an original part at the moment. furher investigation needed.

Im not sure in the end condition of the drive shaft as i couldnt get under the car, these pics are taken just holding the camera under it. This one you can slightly see end of it...

Would certainly be interested to know Mike if its a part supplied from Nipparts via Camskill.

Since I have a claim with them pending, another case would be benificial.

miller
04-11-2009, 09:51 AM
the car i think is near 100k in miles. Doubt any symptons were recognised but i will ask the question of him. Its a car he gets in and drives, music up and away he goes.

Interestingly its running uprated boost at 0.9bar and no sign of a boost controller anywhere.

Mike

Eurospec
04-11-2009, 10:24 AM
The angle on the CV looks pretty extreme- that prolly is minced.

A new drive shaft is properly expensive, a 2nd hand one is okay as long as its in good condition.

New OEM lower arm though- that is the 'normal' failure.

Cheers,

Ben.

bradc
04-11-2009, 07:01 PM
Ben et al, do you guys find that failures happen more on the curved or straight arms?

sanct
04-11-2009, 07:31 PM
Ben et al, do you guys find that failures happen more on the curved or straight arms?

Apparently straight.... Having taken my VR4 to see Ben twice for wear on the lower straights.

Eurospec
04-11-2009, 07:44 PM
Indeed, straight.

The banana (da der da da- sorry) arms dont seem such an issuse. When the ball joint goes you get a definate clonking to warn you. Straight arms normally give you heavy steering, then creaking, then falling off when you need it least.

Cheers,

Ben.

bradc
04-11-2009, 07:45 PM
I've replaced 2 curved, 2 straight and I need to replace another 1 curved and 1 straight at the moment, so for me it is about 50/50. Note though I haven't had a failure, just heard noises and then replaced them.

miller
03-12-2009, 01:15 PM
Indeed, straight.

The banana (da der da da- sorry) arms dont seem such an issuse. When the ball joint goes you get a definate clonking to warn you. Straight arms normally give you heavy steering, then creaking, then falling off when you need it least.

Cheers,

Ben.

So a sign that the wheel is gonna pop off and drop backwards like this is heavy steering? On my own car im noticing the steering is getting quite heavy now.

How does a layman check?

Mike

Eurospec
03-12-2009, 01:31 PM
YEs, heavy steering and creaking are the two symptoms you seem to get first.

You dont always get both.

Cheers,

Ben.

miller
03-12-2009, 01:33 PM
hmmm no creaking for me, just heavy ass steering. Is it the curved or straight arm i replace? im getting confused searching through all the different threads on this one.

Eurospec
03-12-2009, 01:36 PM
Normally its the straight ones.

When its the curved ones, ive only ever heard them banging.

Cheers,

Ben.

sightless
03-12-2009, 11:57 PM
YEs, heavy steering and creaking are the two symptoms you seem to get first.

You dont always get both.

Cheers,

Ben.

Can you describe the creaking a bit more?

ANTHONY
04-12-2009, 12:36 AM
so if the lower arms have already been replaced on a recall by Mitzi, are these also prone to failure?

elnevio
04-12-2009, 02:07 AM
so if the lower arms have already been replaced on a recall by Mitzi, are these also prone to failure?
Not as prone, AFAIK. But even if they have been done, people should be vigilant as to the symptoms, IMO.

miller
04-12-2009, 09:50 AM
Mine have been done in the recall back in Japan. Whats worrying is my car is only approaching 60k miles.

Im paranoid now and the only way to satisfy my mind is to change the arms.


Mike

orionn2o
04-12-2009, 09:56 AM
Surely the heavy steering is generated by the ball joint drying up? Therefore rather than immediately replace, wouldn't it be better to remove the arm and check the ball joint for free movement??

Mark 4
04-12-2009, 01:36 PM
I had the creaking on mine but not heavy steering. I changed them both to be on the safe side.

White Lightning
04-12-2009, 02:22 PM
Whats worrying is my car is only approaching 60k miles.

Yes ... but I think it's fair to say your suspension will have taken more abuse than most Legnums with 60k on the clock /Steeringw

WizardKing
04-12-2009, 02:53 PM
Can you describe the creaking a bit more?

Not sure whom, a member posted a .WMV video on here. It was identical to how mine sounded.

linky ;
http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17146&highlight=tardis

orionn2o
04-12-2009, 03:05 PM
that doesnt sound nice

dannyh
05-12-2009, 04:58 PM
This is how I got rid of my creaking which was horrendous, the RAC couldn`t find it and neither could a Dealer.
Take the front wheels off, give the bottom ball joint behind the disc backing plate a really good spray all over with good old WD40, turn the steering from side to side a few times, wheels back on and off you go.
These ball joints are prone to water getting in, done mine at the beginning of september, not a dicky bird since.
Got to be worth a shot, for the price of a can of WD

WizardKing
05-12-2009, 10:21 PM
It would be worth it, if only it were an annoying sound and nothing more.
Unfortunately, it seems to be a precursor to a catastrophic failure of the ball joint.

Although the failures reported seem to be at low speeds (thereby not harming anyone physically), the financial impact looks painful.

I'm not saying this to put down your suggestion, at all. I would dread to think that either yourself or someone that reads your post think they've cured the problem with a quick spray of what is not even an oil, really.

A warning sound is always a good thing to leave in place as a reminder, too !

miller
05-12-2009, 10:26 PM
Just what i was thinking that......id hate to see the receipt for a can of WD40 sat beside a £1000 invoice for repairs and body work.

Not to mention if it was you that bucked the trend of it happening at low speeds


Mike

dannyh
05-12-2009, 10:45 PM
I know where you`re coming from guys, being a qualified Mechanical Engineer for the last 35 yrs, I did have the sense to check them out mechanically and determine that they were safe before using the WD40 to "Eliminate the squeaks and moans", And I would assume that anyone reading my previous posting would have already satisfied themselves that the joints were mechanically sound.
I am in no way advocating using one thing to hide another.

WizardKing
05-12-2009, 11:00 PM
Fair shout. Intended more to point the issue out for others. As a mechanical engineer, I would expect that you'd be able to determine it was fine on your car. The same can't necessarily be assumed for those of us without your experience, though.:whistle:

dannyh
05-12-2009, 11:13 PM
Yes that`s fair enough, I think this may have come across wrong, I`m not trying to sound clever, I just rightly or wrongly assumed that the mechanics of the issue would already have been checked and eliminated by someone.
I was on holiday when mine started, so I called the RAC out, he couldn`t find anything mchanically wrong and nor could I, but I still wasn`t happy, so I took it to a dealer (Ford), no Mitsi dealer for 50 odd miles, they could not find anything, checked on this site, and got info on lower arm failures, but knowing they were mechanically sound, out come the tried and trusted WD, as I said, worked for me, but yes anyone reading this thread, please please MAKE SURE THEY ARE NOT MECHANICALLY AT FAULT!!!

sightless
06-12-2009, 03:19 AM
MAKE SURE THEY ARE NOT MECHANICALLY AT FAULT!!!


What is a way to determine if they are mechanically at fault?

dannyh
06-12-2009, 10:35 AM
Split the joint from the hub, and check for any slackness in the joint or end float (up and down movement) if the joint does not feel smooth or there is any slack or knocking REPLACE THE JOINT, DO NOT DRIVE THE CAR, if there is any slack in th joint it means that the top of the cradle (The joint housing) is wearing away on the insde, the cap will be thinner and could fail at any time letting the rod pop out of the top, losing all connection with the bottom of the hub

miller
07-12-2009, 05:06 PM
how hard/easy are the lower straight arms to replace? Is there a guide anywhere? i cant seem to find on in resources.

psbarham
07-12-2009, 05:54 PM
how hard/easy are the lower straight arms to replace? Is there a guide anywhere? i cant seem to find on in resources.

remove wheel
undo and remove bottom shock bolt
undo and remove the inner pivot bolt
undo and remove bottom ball joint (you'll need a ball joint splitter for this)
remove arm.
refitting is the reverse of above, apart from one bit, the bottom shock bolt and the inner pivot bolt need to be done up with the suspension in its natural position, but don't worry if you don't have a lift of a pit, this can be done easily by jacking the car up a bit higher and then pacing an axle stand under the bottom arm and then lower the jack until all the weight is on the stand, then do up the bolts as per usual.

scott.mohekey
07-12-2009, 07:31 PM
apart from one bit, the bottom shock bolt and the inner pivot bolt need to be done up with the suspension in its natural position, but don't worry if you don't have a lift of a pit, this can be done easily by jacking the car up a bit higher and then pacing an axle stand under the bottom arm and then lower the jack until all the weight is on the stand, then do up the bolts as per usual.

I bet this is what I've done wrong when putting my new lower arms in. Something to check tonight!

Subaru ETA
14-12-2009, 08:31 AM
you dont HAVE to have a ball joint splitter to get the ball joint out. you just need to belt where the jount goes through the knuckle with a hammer

fuel
16-12-2009, 05:29 AM
way easier with a splitter though, they are like $20 at most and are totally worth it if you are popping joints off often. Plus I'm such a lousy aim with the hammer I'ld end up wacking the CV joint or missing totally.

Subaru ETA
16-12-2009, 05:39 AM
lol yeah i guess.. im a mechanic so i do it the rough way lol. plus the spliters usually rip the boot and if you need to reuse it that aint so good

psbarham
16-12-2009, 07:43 AM
lol yeah i guess.. im a mechanic so i do it the rough way lol. plus the spliters usually rip the boot and if you need to reuse it that aint so good

so am i, thats why i have a scissor type splitter, never split a boot yet /crosses fingers

Subaru ETA
18-12-2009, 03:31 AM
so am i, thats why i have a scissor type splitter, never split a boot yet /crosses fingers

interesting...never seen one like that...the only ones we can get here are the fork ones! i know for a fact sanp on dont do a 'scissor' type one - what brand is yours?

psbarham
18-12-2009, 08:59 AM
interesting...never seen one like that...the only ones we can get here are the fork ones! i know for a fact sanp on dont do a 'scissor' type one - what brand is yours?

sykes pacavant, they are very common over here.

LIKE THIS (except this looks cheap and nasty) (http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cht222-ball-joint-remover)

there is loads on fleabay

Subaru ETA
18-12-2009, 11:01 PM
cheers ill keep an eye out

scott.mohekey
19-12-2009, 12:20 AM
I've got one of them. I bought it from super cheap auto for around $10 I think. VERY handy.

Subaru ETA
19-12-2009, 01:41 AM
lol well maybe i should stop buying all my tools from snap on and sulco then! :p

scott.mohekey
19-12-2009, 04:15 AM
Lol, I buy from whoever has the tool I need. I've bought a few from sulco, cheap uncomplicated things from super cheap or repco, a bunch of powerbuilt stuff because I can't afford snap on etc.