Braided brake hoses

[Ryan]

Right, I have been wondering about the legality of fitting braided hoses for some time and have received seemingly conflicting information, including from some people trained as WOF certifiers?

I've done some poking around on the LTNZ's website for brake requirements:

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/certifiers/virm-in-service/general-08-v3a51.pdf

and have found the following sections which mention brake hoses:

"Modification
13. A modification to a brake or vehicle that affects
the braking performance must be inspected and
certified by an LVV specialist certifier, unless the
vehicle:
a) is excluded from the requirement
for LVV specialist certification
(Table 8-1-1), and
b) has been inspected in accordance with the
requirements in this manual, including those for
equipment, condition and performance."

Okay, in my opinion fitting braided hoses does not change the performance of the braking system, so let's move on:

Reasons for Rejection

flexible hydraulic brake hose (including
connections):
a) is leaking brake fluid, or
b) is insecure, or
c) bulges under pressure, or
d) is twisted, stretched, chafed or
e) external sheathing is cracked to the extent that
the reinforcing cords are exposed, or
f ) has metal connections that are excessively
corroded, or
g) has an end fitting that is not attached to the hose
by means of swaging, machine crimping or a
similar process (Note 3).

Okay and lastly:

"Fitting of or modification to: LVV certification is never required:
Aftermarket brake pads, linings and
hoses
• in-service requirements for condition and performance must be met.
Any modifications for the purposes of
law enforcement or the provision of
emergency services".

I can find no mention of DOT certification anywhere in this article which is a supposed requirement according to my WOF inspector. So then my understanding of this, is that I can fit the hoses provided they meet the requirements as listed above (condition etc).

If someone would care to read this article and confirm (or refute) my suspicions?

[mpau009]

It has come up before, and im 99% sure they do need to be certified unless the lines have a rating from the authorities..

Not really helpful info i know, but it was a long time ago, and im pretty sure it relates to how the connectors are attached to the actual hose, which needs to be proven safe?

I would also be keen to hear if anyone has found a workable solution

[Goku]

As long as they have the certification tag on them with the right Numbers, they don't need to be certified with an LVV.

[CANDEE]

You used to have to have braided lines that were made by a "certified" maker, who would put a tag onto the lines to prove they had been made to the correct standard, and therefore your car was legal without a cert with them.

However with a number of new cars coming out with braided lines installed factory, this has become defunct...

One of my friends had a set of perfectly servicable Goodridge braided lines on his Rover Tomcat, which didnt have the tags on them as they arent made in NZ, and he got pulled up on them on a WOF. After confirming the new rules, the WOF agent had to give him a WOF for the car.

Therefore, if the braided lines are in good condition ie not in the reasons for rejection above, they should be all legal.. :) And also make sure the ends are crimped on rather than ones that can be done up by hand/with hand tools, as this is a BIG nono...

J

[Ryan]

Thanks Jeremy.

It appears that there a few WOF people who don't know what they're talking about. This guy tried to spin me that crap about it needing to be certified etc.

I have found no evidence of this requirement in the WOF check (as linked) so not sure where they're getting that information from. Now I just need to fit them :D

[Subaru ETA]

the WOF inspector wasnt spinning you crap...

LTSA are contantly chaning there minds so if they were legal last week, doesnt mean they are legal this week. Plus they write the VIRM in such a way that each paragraph condrdicts the one before.

I did my WOF training last year and pretty much any mod to brakes needed a LVV cert, this includes hoses. My old man has the VIRM and according to that they need to be certed.

At the end of the day it depends on how you read the word of the law, because even that is confusing.

[Ryan]

the WOF inspector wasnt spinning you crap...

LTSA are contantly chaning there minds so if they were legal last week, doesnt mean they are legal this week. Plus they write the VIRM in such a way that each paragraph condrdicts the one before.

I did my WOF training last year and pretty much any mod to brakes needed a LVV cert, this includes hoses. My old man has the VIRM and according to that they need to be certed.

At the end of the day it depends on how you read the word of the law, because even that is confusing.

Okay then, if that's the case then why is it not mentioned anywhere in the WOF requirements which I've linked to, as handed down by LTNZ?

More importantly, where is the evidence that these hoses require certification? If it isn't part of LTNZ's requirements then how are the general public meant to know?

[Ryan]

Right, I called HEL performance New Zealand and put the question to the owner. He says that as of two and a half years ago, the requirement for braided hoses to be certified has been dropped.

As long as they have factory crimped ends they are perfectly legal in New Zealand.

[Subaru ETA]

as i pointed out - it is LTSA's issue that no one knows what the law is. I was trained last year as i said and in the theory test the answer was that they have to be certed. my old man is a repair certifier and every other week the rules are changed and its very easy to loose track as to what the ruling is!!

you should read the regs for tyre tread depth - now thats a joke!

[wintertidenz]

I personally find that needing a cert for coilovers is a bit stupid, especially (from my understanding) that each time you adjust the height you need to get it recerted.

As for tyre tread depth, one warrant I had 5mm of tread... next I had 8... umm, say what?!

[Subaru ETA]

it depends on where they measure them from.

The original rule was that they measure it from the most worn point. so if the edges were worn badly they would fail.

Now they have changed it to you can only measure from where the tread wear indicators are. so because most tyres dont have indicators on the edges it doesnt matter if they are completly worn out (as long as the cords arent hanging out)

its just a case of someone sitting at LTSA needed to do something to justify them having a job, so they go and change a rule which wasnt needed.

and as for the coilover - i think its fair enough to have them certed - they are a very important part of the car safety wise so it makes sense that they should be checked to make sure that they are right!

[wintertidenz]

Well, even if you had to get them installed by a shock shop that then provided a piece of paper saying they were all OK etc I think that would be acceptable... but having to cert them each time they are adjusted is a bit nuts - that's $350-400 per cert, which can add up pretty quick.

[Ryan]

/Hijack Please stay on topic guys, this thread is about brake hoses ;)

[Subaru ETA]

how many people adjust them all the time tho? most people would adjust them once and leave them set. ijts not that hard to adjust them so its easy enough to put them back to cert height is easy enough. and besides - most wof inspectors would just look at the cert plate and thats fine. they wont measure it.

and as for supplying a piece of paper from the installer saying that they are sweet? that seems abit nuts. isnt it better to have an indapendant person to check them?

trust me - i have seen some shocking cars come through workshops!

[Subaru ETA]

its on topic...kind of :p

[Fully]

As long as they are dot, jis or sae standard they should be fine. Get the paperwork also to confirm they are.

[Ryan]

Well - I phoned and spoke to Land Transport of New Zealand and asked the question. The answer?

They do not require certification. That is "from the horse's mouth". Seems my WOF inspector needs to do some homework. /pan

[scott.mohekey]

Horses work at LTNZ ?? That could explain a few things.

[Ryan]

That could explain a few things.

Such as.... ?:sombrero:

[scott.mohekey]

Lack of general understanding in the public and WOF officers in regards to laws etc.

[Ryan]

I really don't understand what is so difficult to understand though? I checked their law on their website and then confirmed with them that it was correct.

Done.

I think a possible reason why people don't understand is because they are apathetic when it comes to researching the topic at hand.

[scott.mohekey]

I agree, it is easy to find the information if you want to look for it.. I think the issue is that they don't send out updates to interested parties when the law changes, at least not in a well documented manor.. There should be no excuse for WOF officers not to be up to date on the laws. LTNZ should have systems in place to make sure that when laws are changed, the relevant parties are made aware.

[Ryan]

Good points, agreed /yes

[Gly]

they do send out updates,

ive seen the folder, its ****en rediculas the size of the thing,
and its not written in plain straight forward english,

and that doesnt help when most of the WOF places i go to are immigants and english is a 2nd or 3rd language.

[scott.mohekey]

Do they have any sort of formal testing/certification process then? It's all well and good sending out the updates, but if no one pays any notice..

[Subaru ETA]

to get you wof ticket you need to do a theory and a practical test. you then get you certificate to say you can do them.. you then get randomly audited. the time between audit usually depends on how well you did on the audit before hand.

and yes they do send the updates out...in a massive A3 envalope with about 100 pages of crap which is written in legal gooboly gook which make no scense. each inspector is suppose to sign that they have read it. only problem is you get halfway through reading that lot and then the next lot turn up - and the rules are usually the complet opposite to the ones you have just been reading.

SO what usually happens is the wof inspector will do the wof and if there is anything that they are unsure of etc they will then refer to the VIRM.. the people i have worked with would always go to the VIRM if there was an issue that may require LVV.

I know all this because i have done the training!

[Ryan]

And a reply from my email which I sent last week...

Good morning Ryan

Thank you for your email dated 18 November 2009.

After consultation with the appropriate department, I can advise the following information.

if a flexible brake hose is replaced with a braided flexible brake hose low volume vehicle (LVV) certification is not required. However, in-service inspection requirements as set out in the Brakes 8-1 Service Brake, parking brake and emergency brake section of the vehicle inspection requirements manual (VIRM). The VIRM is used by vehicle inspectors to determine a vehicles compliance with current safety requirements. I have provided a link to this section of the VIRM below.
http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/certifiers/virm-in-service/general-08-v3a51.pdf

Please note that the braided hose must have crimped or swaged fittings, such that the hose cannot itself be dismantled further.

Regards
__________________________________________________ ________
Senior Customer Service Representative
NZ Transport Agency
Transport Registry Centre
Private Bag 11777
Palmerston North 4442
New Zealand
www.nzta.govt.nz

[crazydriver81]

Ryan...you are lucky than, eh? ;)

[Ryan]

Ryan...you are lucky than, eh? ;)

Indeed I am Stefan, vielen dank ;)

[wintertidenz]

Ryan - do you have a good, cheap supplier of said braided brake hoses? ;)

[Ryan]

Nope, I was just lucky for once :smug:

[crazydriver81]

Ryan - do you have a good, cheap supplier of said braided brake hoses? ;)

Take a look at ebay.co.uk - you will find the HEL brakeline kits with a choice of colours. Quality is excellent, quick delivery and a choice of colours.

Btw, you can use any set for any 8th Gen Galant or 2nd Gen Eclipse (D3xA).

[Fully]

Take a look at ebay.co.uk - you will find the HEL brakeline kits with a choice of colours. Quality is excellent, quick delivery and a choice of colours.

Btw, you can use any set for any 8th Gen Galant or 2nd Gen Eclipse (D3xA).

I am sure they are not legal, BS is not a NZ standard on a Japanese car. Sure if you can put them on a British car no problem because that meets the BS then the car comes under that standard.

Like I said use only SAE, DOT, JIS standard parts. You will be fine.
Do not use DIN or FMVSS parts.

This is all fine and dandy to use what you like, but if you have a crash your insurance policy could be rejected due to having non approved standards part in your car. If an insurance company can get out of paying you out they will.

BTW it does tell you this in that document (general-08-v3a51)

On another note I have being told I need a LVV for my front mount :(

[Ryan]

"Hose kits are now also being made available through a distributor in New Zealand with LVTA approval and now in Australia with ADR approval also obtained through our FMVSS-106 approval. "

http://www.h-e-l.co.uk/news/press-releases/fmvss.htm

And here they are:

http://www.helperformance.co.nz/index.html