what power should be expected

[dinger1983]

ok got a dyno run in few weeks just wondering what sort of power i should be seeing from the car so i can see if there are any issuse

its a 97 auto with ralliart pannel filter de-cat, 3"cat back exhaust and mbc

[apeman69]

They're all different. Have a search on here for results from previous dyno days (Eurospec did one). This may give you some sort of idea what other owners' cars are doing. I think on the Eurospec dyno day thread there was some reference to mods on the cars so there will be some useful info in that thread that you can use to give you a basic idea of some sort of power range that you may expect yours to fit into.
With this in mind, get it on the rollers and see what it can do. The action of doing this should highlight any potential issues if the operator knows what he's doing. E.g. dyno run on mine highlighted that the torque converter wasn't in the best condition and that my turbos were not holding boost at higher rpms.
Don't use my car for a BHP reference though because I have different mods to you and there were things that needed sorting at the time of the dyno run.

[bradc]

In the UK expect between 120 and 140kw ATW for a stock PFL auto.

[apeman69]

So that's about 160 to 187 bhp at the wheels on a stock PFL auto. Yours has breathing mods and an MBC with an undisclosed setting so could be more than this. Starting to get the idea that there is no definitive power figure? These are old cars and we never really know what sort of life they've had.

Brad, why do you say in your signature that yours is making 'about 290-300kw at 5500rpm'? If you've got a specific figure for torque and you've had it on the rollers then why 'about...'

290-300kw is around 388 to 402 bhp; 620nm is 457 lb/ft. You seem to often quote ATW figures on here so what's yours? ATW or ATF? I think that maybe you're always quoting ATW figures so that your power figure appears huge if the subliminal inference is that 290-300kw is your ATW figure when it is perhaps your ATF. Does this make sense?:evil3:

I'm not implying you're bullsh!tting, just confused and would like clarification of what you're quoting in your signature.:kiss:

My dyno results show:-
ATW: 205hp, 152kw
ATF: 283hp, 211kw
Torque: over 400lb/ft, >542nm (at least 400lb/ft but the real figure is unknown because the hp graph was only scaled up to 400). Torque went above 400 at 2100rpm.

If you've ever posted a graph for your car then any chance you could stick a link to it on here so I could have a look? I don't like searching!:violin:

[Axeboy]

Power and torque graphs from my pfl vr4...

Might help.. boost was up a little on standard

31057

31058

[dinger1983]

cheers mate iv had a look about and like you said there is no real ball park figure for the cars all numbers seem to be different from car to car was the same when i had my integra the cars were all hand finished and then there is the age of the car

as for the boost not realy 100% on that not sure on the gauge i have being that accurate as it gos to a sensor under the bonnet then to a via wires then back to a mechaical needle gauge in the car( pressure ,electrical, mechanical not convinced) but apart from that i think im running at about 0.9bar with some spiking and droping to about 0.6 bar at high rpm

now this run will be a base for the next few months as the plan is to fit an intercooler after this run and then a map2ecu geting a pre and post ecu figure then i will know what each stage gained

[apeman69]

Good plan. Personally, I'd not bother with another dyno run after just the intercooler. The power gain, if any, won't be much so could turn out to be a waste of £££ on the dyno fee. Fitting the IC will probably mean a reduction in boost pressure generally, hence a probable reduction in power. You could of course increase the MBC to get back to pre-IC (0.9bar) max boost which should mean an overall increase in power from fitting the IC and increasing boost to previous level (0.9bar). I know it's nice to see what each mod does in terms of numbers but something to think about maybe and you may want to put the cash toward the ECU. Just offering another perspective on things.

[Subaru ETA]

my manual one with the same mods (but with no cat) made someting like 185kw ATW. that was running at 15.6psi

[apeman69]

For us in the U.K. that's 248bhp ATW at 1.07bar.
Wish I was in NZ. My car would be pushing 1000bhp in no time!
Oops... let's not start all that again.

Axeboy: what's with the torque graph you posted? 1509lb/ft? Is that an accumulation of the four items check marked in the key to the graph or have I misread something?

[Axeboy]

Ignore the numbers, purely for the curve

I cant remember what it all meant, it was about 4 years ago or something and the garage gave me all kinds of technical chat as to wheel torque/flywheel torque and rolling road versus flywheel calcs.

[apeman69]

Hmmm..... cuppa tea from my chocolate teapot anyone? :-ished:

[bradc]

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/uploaded/786/1204160395.jpg That is my car's graph. It isn't stock :) I've used the ATW / 0.76 = ATF calculation that someone proposed as the club standard after a UK dyno day. That puts me at 402hp, but I think that perhaps that is a bit high. The car sure as hell moves though as NZ members will attest to.

The reason for the report of a huge amount of torque on some graphs is because the torque seen at the wheels is multiplied by the gearbox and final drive.

Ape - on a graph of an auto car you have to be careful about the torque converter flare early on in the rev range. Max torque on a VR-4 will never ever be at 2100rpm. It will always be somewhere between 3500 and 4500rpm.

[dinger1983]

when the intercooler is fitted it will be getting a map2ecu hopfuly when i get to eurospec in jan now im would think id have a pre and post tuning dyno run to show gain from the ecu in the pre i should see what the intercooler has got me

[apeman69]

Thanks for the info Brad.