Rear diff for lunch, anyone? *munch* *munch* [Archive]

elnevio

09-12-2009, 01:30 PM

There I was, pulling out of a junction at 8.10am this morning (not bat-out-of-hell stylee, either...), and I was greeted with a bit of a lurch immediately followed by a fair bit of clunking from the rear. So I pull over where I can, thinking, "flat-bed time!", so leave enough room in front of me for a recovery wagon :smart:.

Have a quick look under the back, to be greeted by a swiftly-growing puddle of oil, clearly pouring out of the diff. :anxious:

Phone is on its last legs, but still call the AA for recovery. Phone dies as soon as I've finished the call, fortunately. Told to expect someone hopefully by 9.30am.

Then I remember my meeting at 9am. So I have to trudge off up the road to find a phone box to call work!

But I managed to do that, and get back without missing the AA man. Although I couldn't be entirely sure due to not being contactable on my mobile!

So, got trucked home, car's now on the drive, having created another puddle on the truck, and creating a further one on the drive too. /pan

I have had a look underneath, and the pictures of my findings are attached, first one is as is, and the second one is marked up as follows:

A & B - cracks!
C & D - the bolts have been pushed out by about 1/4-inch. Bolt C has actually been pushed in by me slightly, prior to taking the picture.

I think all the ATF has now drained out of it...

miller

09-12-2009, 01:32 PM

oh crap Nev, feel for you. If you need a hand swapping difs just give me a shout, im sure i can hand you the right spanners.

Gutted, and that diff oil looks a pretty decent colour too.

Mike

Confused

09-12-2009, 01:34 PM

Damn, that sucks :(

Atik

09-12-2009, 01:37 PM

Man, not good :(

Hope you can get it sorted soon.

mesobitchy

09-12-2009, 01:39 PM

oops, and do you have a clue as to why this happened?

Wodjno

09-12-2009, 01:54 PM

Sheeeet !! Sorry to hear this Nev :(

I don't know if your going to upgrade the diff or stay standard ?
But if u haven't already sorted a replacement ?
PSBarham has a couple of rear diffs ready to go /yes

Cheers

Wodj

Gowf

09-12-2009, 02:59 PM

Welcome to my world of pain nev. Although yours has failed far more spectacularly than mine (my casing was fine). I guess this does illustrate just how weak the rear diff casing is.

Gutted for you mate, esp at this time of year,

So whats the plan then nev another standard or you going on the sayc?

mesobitchy

09-12-2009, 03:03 PM

get some chemical metal round it /lol and cable ties, that should do the job ;)

Turbo_Steve

09-12-2009, 03:06 PM

SAYC! SAYC! :D :D :D

Nev.....

As miller says, if you're doing this on a week night (which I am sure you are!) then I'm around and have (some) tools with me.
We could probably even car share if Miller can hide his face whilst in the volvo. :)

Just a thought: is it possible that the bolts were loose....first?

miller

09-12-2009, 03:13 PM

As miller says, if you're doing this on a week night (which I am sure you are!) then I'm around and have (some) tools with me.
We could probably even car share if Miller can hide his face whilst in the volvo. :)

Ill dig the balaclava out :sigh:

Wodjno

09-12-2009, 03:21 PM

This should be S-AYC /yes

As S-AYC started from EVO 8 onwards.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/144-2004-Mitsubishi-Evo-8-260-AYC-Rear-Diff_W0QQitemZ360214253662QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Ca rsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item53de71505e

But best confirm 1st..

Cheers

Wodj

elnevio

09-12-2009, 03:25 PM

Just a thought: is it possible that the bolts were loose....first?
I did think this initially, but it looks relatively obvious that the case has flexed, perhaps by a broken diff piece inside being wedged/trapped, and pushed those bolts out. I pushed the lower bolt back in slightly by hand, without turning it...

SAYC is a possibility, as I am looking at keeping the car for some time. Although I have a slight timescale issue, as the RVR is off for its new exhaust Saturday, so possibly down to just one car for the week! Even though that one car IS the Swift of Justice...

Either way, I'm doing my utmost to try and arrange this for Friday morning.

pezza

09-12-2009, 04:40 PM

Gutted for you mate... That rear clunk that ends up under you right foot and the seat is truly horrible!

take comfort knowing that a few of us have been there and there will be enough parts around to get you back on the road. S-AYC is def worth a shot...

Always get you thinking 'did the car really just get round that bend/roundabout that easily?' It's great when being pursued!

After minor cosmetic work to the AYC diff, the only awkward thing is the filler for the gear oil!

It's definitely the way to go tho!

chris g

09-12-2009, 04:56 PM

If you want a std diff from 2002 estate, Nick should have my old one...

Arrange to collect and its yours...

Spirit

09-12-2009, 05:22 PM

Gutted for you mate.....bad at anytime, really bad this time of year. Good luck sorting it out mate

bradc

09-12-2009, 06:07 PM

That sucks Nev! When you last changed the diff oil was there any red oil in the gear part of the diff?

Ryan

09-12-2009, 07:00 PM

Bit of a bummer for you Nev but can take solace in the fact that you have a CVR-4 pit crew on standby /grouphug

S-AYC wouldn't be a bad upgrade either :D

aboo

09-12-2009, 07:29 PM

Gutted for you Nev. Hope you get it sorted with out to much hassle. Sounds like you have no shortage of help.

psbarham

09-12-2009, 08:13 PM

gutted dude, but i do have a diff sat here awaiting a new home if you want it

Nutter_John

09-12-2009, 08:16 PM

Spoke to Nev earlier and he was on his way to collect an AYC diff , sure he will update more later

Mrs B

09-12-2009, 08:43 PM

I have just spoken with him, he's on his way back.

White Lightning

09-12-2009, 08:51 PM

Gutted for you Nev :(

But it sounds like you are on the case already :thumbsup:

Nick Mann

09-12-2009, 09:05 PM

Chris - I have still got yours. Nev was already on his way to get another when I spoke to him.

Good luck with it Nev! Sorry I can't be there to help, but I can be on the other end of a phone! :D

And what a let down of a story. You should at least be launching or carrying out some other minor heroics!

CANDEE

09-12-2009, 09:31 PM

Damn thats not good Nev.. :(

elnevio

09-12-2009, 10:28 PM

And what a let down of a story. You should at least be launching or carrying out some other minor heroics!
Ha! It might have been the 'mini-launch' onto the main A61 roundabout in the wet, at about 1500rpm that did the trick - I thought I got some wheelspin, but it felt a little like it was bouncing slightly for a few times in a second or two. Lit three-bars up at the same time! A blast up the bypass and dodging around the side streets of Sheffield ensued before the diff gave up... :quasi:

Anyway, the Swift of Justice was pressed in to service this afternoon, up and over the Peak District and back, and sterling service it delivered, along with a replacement AYC diff (see pic!), and Justice, of course... :D

The diff was provided by Mo (zedy1 - thanks chap! :thumbsup:), but unfortunately, the man himself couldn't be there as he was out, but huge thanks to a few of his guys who were there to open up for me - sorting me out with a brew, and some good banter, and even letting me loose on the biccies! :jester:

Big thanks to everyone in CVR4 who has helped so far today. :iloveyou:

More to come tomorrow evening, as the fitting begins - hopefully with assistance from miller and Turbo_Steve /yes. Time to get tooled up! :)

White Lightning

09-12-2009, 10:34 PM

Good luck mate. I will be interested to hear how you get on with this job /yes

elnevio

09-12-2009, 10:38 PM

Good luck mate. I will be interested to hear how you get on with this job /yes
Prepare for the worst! :toilet: :D

I've already had enough of the smell of ATF - and the replacement job is yet to start! :o

wintertidenz

09-12-2009, 10:42 PM

Pics of the inside of the dead diff are required after removal :D

miller

09-12-2009, 10:44 PM

aboo

09-12-2009, 11:14 PM

Well done Nev & good luck chaps with the repair.

MikeKey

10-12-2009, 12:07 AM

Good luck with it Nev. It's really not that bad of a job either, I did mine on my own with nowt but spanners, a trolley jack and a pair of axle stands!

Ryan

10-12-2009, 12:23 AM

Prepare for the worst! :toilet: :D

I've already had enough of the smell of ATF - and the replacement job is yet to start! :o

I agree - it does smell disgusting, the only thing worse is heavy gear oil *gag*

elnevio

10-12-2009, 01:04 AM

See ya tomorrow.

Steve, you know where i live! See you around 4pm? what method of time travel shall we use?

Nev,

Need any more tools? Jack, stands? How high can we get the rear of the car to aid getting it in place? how heavy is it?

Mike
So, about an hour to mine at that time of day then! You still got my address details Mike?

Nick mentioned that a 22mm spanner would be very helpful. I have a pair of axle stands, but another pair may be useful if we opt for the four-wheels-off-the-ground version of AYC bleeding. Another jack may also be useful, two might make things quicker. I have ATF and gear oil, and the hand pump that fits the Amsoil bottles.

And I don't think Steve has internet at the hotel this evening - something about it being broken? Best you speak to him direct. Text me when en route from yours, so I know when to get the tea on. I mean get started with the task in hand! :D

PS. Steve did mention something about borrowing some scruffy clothes from you when he gets there?

elnevio

10-12-2009, 01:06 AM

I agree - it does smell disgusting, the only thing worse is heavy gear oil *gag*
Gear oil is horrible! *bleurgh*

I don't mind ATF - it's just it's all I've been able to smell all day! :annoyed:

miller

10-12-2009, 01:07 AM

roger that. ill sort it tomorrow during the day. ill dig my smallest yellow T shirt out for him!!

Im not sure i have a 22mm spanner but will check. i got all the rest.

pezza

10-12-2009, 01:27 AM

Gear oil is horrible! *bleurgh*

I cant remember the smell but I remember it made me almost heave.. A few spanner heads I know cant get on with it either.

Good luck with the swap!

elnevio

10-12-2009, 08:47 AM

That sucks Nev! When you last changed the diff oil was there any red oil in the gear part of the diff?
We were ready to change both fluids in the diff a few months ago, but just topped them up instead (didn't need changing as boths lots were in really good nick, and are both Amsoil). Will have to check when we drain the old diff later, although it may already be contaminated now from the failure.

In the meantime, a question for those reading this thread:

I know that the fluids will add about a kilo in weight to the diff, but it seems easier to prime the new diff with the fresh ATF and gear oil, prior to offering it up to the car for fitting. Is this sensible, or not?

peter thomson

10-12-2009, 09:04 AM

I'd be tempted to fill them as well while it's on the ground. It will save a bit of time and you won't have the smelly stuff running down your arms. Though you may have leakage from the driveshafts

elnevio

10-12-2009, 09:07 AM

Thanks, Peter.

I think we'll offer it up on the jack first, just to make sure there is nothing obvious likely to cause a problem, drop it back down again, fill it up, then go for the final fit. Well, it's a plan! :thumbsup:

psbarham

10-12-2009, 09:09 AM

I know that the fluids will add about a kilo in weight to the diff, but it seems easier to prime the new diff with the fresh ATF and gear oil, prior to offering it up to the car for fitting. Is this sensible, or not?

It's worth a go, but the diff will be open to the elements until the drive shafts are fitted, so the potential for contamination to the new oil is high, at least with an empty diff if you do get any crud in the seals whilst fitting it you can clean them with petrol/diesel/brake cleaner/mr muscle/channel No.5 without diluting the oils.

oh and good luck gents

elnevio

10-12-2009, 09:25 AM

It's worth a go, but the diff will be open to the elements until the drive shafts are fitted, so the potential for contamination to the new oil is high, at least with an empty diff if you do get any crud in the seals whilst fitting it you can clean them with petrol/diesel/brake cleaner/mr muscle/channel No.5 without diluting the oils.

oh and good luck gents
:thumbsup: Thanks for the info.

MPBVr4

10-12-2009, 10:04 AM

Team CVR4 to the rescue. No other club has this type of response, 41 post in 20 hours. Diff sorted, pit crew sorted. Well done guys and good luck Nev!

White Lightning

10-12-2009, 10:18 AM

Definately interested in how this goes seeing as it now looks like I am going to have to change mine in the New Year :(

MPBVr4

10-12-2009, 02:30 PM

Definately interested in how this goes seeing as it now looks like I am going to have to change mine in the New Year :(

Oh dear! That doesn't sound good:anxious:

White Lightning

10-12-2009, 02:37 PM

Oh dear! That doesn't sound good:anxious:

The noise that I had at the 'Ring came back this morning when I hit the loud pedal mid roundabout despite having changed all the fluids at the weekend. It only happens when turning right and giving it some stick. I noticed from an old thread that you had some issues with it but they were resolved with a flush and clutch pack fluid change?

I am assuming it's the diff at the moment but I don't know for sure. Mind you, I am not sure what else it could be.

pezza

10-12-2009, 06:31 PM

The noise that I had at the 'Ring came back this morning when I hit the loud pedal mid roundabout despite having changed all the fluids at the weekend. It only happens when turning right and giving it some stick. I noticed from an old thread that you had some issues with it but they were resolved with a flush and clutch pack fluid change?

I am assuming it's the diff at the moment but I don't know for sure. Mind you, I am not sure what else it could be.

I had the very same problem with mine and me mates from mitsu initially thought it was a propshaft issue but after closer inspection, they noticed very minimal play in the driveshaft (to the wheel on the inside of the turn). It never got worse over time tho.. and so I never swapped out the shaft to see.

bradc

10-12-2009, 07:57 PM

When were the oils last changed Wayne?

foxdie

10-12-2009, 08:21 PM

Hope you can sort it without breaking the bank mate :)

White Lightning

10-12-2009, 08:33 PM

When were the oils last changed Wayne?

Saturday.

White Lightning

10-12-2009, 08:35 PM

I had the very same problem with mine and me mates from mitsu initially thought it was a propshaft issue but after closer inspection, they noticed very minimal play in the driveshaft (to the wheel on the inside of the turn). It never got worse over time tho.. and so I never swapped out the shaft to see.

That's interesting, Pezza. So, they thought it was the driveshaft at fault not the diff? I have not checked for play yet so perhaps I should.

MPBVr4

10-12-2009, 08:49 PM

I noticed from an old thread that you had some issues with it but they were resolved with a flush and clutch pack fluid change?

When I first got it, basically fresh off the boat, it had a bit of squeal when turning left under power ie coming off a roundabout, which sounded like tyre rubbage. Changed the oils and it was OK after that. Changed them again after 2K and then every 4.5K.

White Lightning

10-12-2009, 09:08 PM

When I first got it, basically fresh off the boat, it had a bit of squeal when turning left under power ie coming off a roundabout, which sounded like tyre rubbage. Changed the oils and it was OK after that. Changed them again after 2K and then every 4.5K.

Tyre rubbage, yes it does sound very similar to that. But, quite severe rubbage at that. Interesting that you had an issue on left hand turns and now it's on right hand turns hmm.

Anyway, I wonder how the CVR4 pit crew are doing ...

MPBVr4

10-12-2009, 10:02 PM

Anyway, I wonder how the CVR4 pit crew are doing ...

Down the pub by now I expect?:curtain:

Mrs B

10-12-2009, 11:48 PM

Um..... they are still here - outside in the cold.

Roberto

10-12-2009, 11:49 PM

They sure are commited to the cause, fair play to all.

ANTHONY

11-12-2009, 12:28 AM

so how mant other members card has this happend too........................oh and bad news nev but looks like you have it hand

Adam.Findlay

11-12-2009, 05:28 AM

Yeah man know how you feel. same thing happened to me, just cruizing slow and VERY LOUD NOISES. then a large oil trail as the diff had smashed itself.
im real guttered that i never got pics of the casing before i turfed it because it was real impressivly smashed.

elnevio

11-12-2009, 09:39 AM

Well, the old diff is out. Eventually...

We have learned something about removing the diff - and that is that Mitsi engineers didn't have a lot to play with when they 'designed' and fitted the 4WD system / VR-4 combination! :furious4:

MASSIVE thanks to Turbo_Steve and miller for helping out - more than one person for this is really REALLY useful. Unfortunately, we gave up as the two rear bolts haven't quite aligned, so are now proving practically impossible to put back in - meaning that the three bolts on each side will need slackening/removing again. One of the lessons learned is to do the rear bolts back up first!! :D The reason we gave up at that point is because it was past midnight, and everything outside of a 3 foot radius of the halogens had iced over! Brrr!! So, I have that to finish off this afternoon, but the hard work is out of the way. I'll just be grabbing an assistant to help me bleed the AYC when I've finished realigning all the bolts, putting everything back together, and refilling the fluids later on.

In the meantime, I will start a little story regarding the old diff.

Before removing it completely, thought it would be best to drain the gear oil out. Undid the drain bolt, ready for the torrent - and got about three drips of red/brown fluid. So it appears that the ATF and gear oil had joined forces in their successful escape attempt (i.e. yes, Brad - there was definitely red in the gear oil! :D)!

Anyway, the drain bolt appeared to have little bit of swarf on it:

elnevio

11-12-2009, 09:40 AM

Got a better look at some of the cracks in the case: :oops:

elnevio

11-12-2009, 09:41 AM

Remember those pushed out bolts? Well, they seemed to have taken their own little momento from the case, in the bolt threads:

elnevio

11-12-2009, 09:43 AM

In one of the covers, and the diff itself, there appears to be some suspicious flakes of metal floating about...

elnevio

11-12-2009, 09:44 AM

I think this is the pinion wheel - am I right?

Either way, it's got a few chewed edges:

elnevio

11-12-2009, 09:47 AM

Finally - in we go: :o

You can see the lovely metal collection, and then it's a case of 'now you see them, now you don't' with the crown wheel teeth! Good shot of the case cracks too... /Camera

Confused

11-12-2009, 09:52 AM

You've done a grand job there, Nev!

Oh, and good work on getting the new one mostly fitted so quickly.

elnevio

11-12-2009, 10:03 AM

You've done a grand job there, Nev!

Oh, and good work on getting the new one mostly fitted so quickly.
Thanks you kindly! :D

The quickly bit obviously refers to the length of time between breakage of diff and fitting of replacement. Rather than the length of time for the actual job itself! :lost:

And also big thanks to Kieran for turning up for the late shift! /yes :thumbsup:

Confused

11-12-2009, 10:27 AM

I was meaning you've done a grand job on destroying that diff! ;)

elnevio

11-12-2009, 10:33 AM

I was thanking you for both bits! /lol

Confused

11-12-2009, 10:36 AM

Just checking! :D

Just goes to show what a great club this is, when in less than 48 hours from your original post, you've managed to get a new part, and have 3 people come and give you a hand to fit it!

(Though, whether it's just because you're on the committee and people are sucking up I'll let you decide ;))

miller

11-12-2009, 10:36 AM

2am I got to bed at! So i estimate Steve got to bed 2.45am! What a b**ch of a job! Ideally left to a balmy summers afternoon with a lift! and WITH A 22mm RATCHET SPANNER! :soaprant

Sorry we didnt get it full of fluid but by god it was cold at that stage :o :o , I have woken up this morning to the smell of ATF and gear oil in my bunged up nostrils, and feel like cack bleurgghhhh

Cheers for the coffee and curry./GJ Highly entertaining though the banter and to watch Steve descend into depths of despair due to low blood sugar levels was interesting! /boxing /boxing /Banana /Banana

Cheers Kieran for arriving over late on, our morale was lower than a snakes arse at that point when you texted, didnt even have the old diff out :o :o

Ayways that diff was mangled as a mangled thing could be! :vulcan:

Mike

miller

11-12-2009, 10:37 AM

(Though, whether it's just because you're on the committee and people are sucking up I'll let you decide ;))

WTF are you on about? :huh:

White Lightning

11-12-2009, 10:43 AM

Well done chaps, good effort. I must admit I thought you were expecting a lot to get it completed in one night especially in the dark and cold!

And top job on destroying that diff Nev ... looks like you did a proper job there /lol

And thanks for the note about the 22mm ratchet spanner Mike ... think I will be buying one of those in the new year :thumbsup:

miller

11-12-2009, 10:46 AM

And thanks for the note about the 22mm ratchet spanner Mike ... think I will be buying one of those in the new year :thumbsup:

I would nearly buy you one myself its that vital :bigcry: :) :)

White Lightning

11-12-2009, 10:48 AM

I would nearly buy you one myself its that vital :bigcry: :) :)

Sounds like it will be well worth the money /yes

Nutter_John

11-12-2009, 10:54 AM

Have to agree on the rachet spanner , exactly what I said after the last one I did

But well done guys , and Nev looks like you did a good job on the diff :)

elnevio

11-12-2009, 10:59 AM

to watch Steve descend into depths of despair due to low blood sugar levels was interesting! /boxing /boxing /Banana /Banana
Yes - the stark contrast meant Steve went from a 'The End of the World is Nigh' sandwich board wearer, to curry-sated happy clapper! :rabbit:

The other requirement, if not already owned, is the 24mm socket for the diff drain and refill plugs, plus whatever the hex bolt for the AYC drain is. /yes

Turbo_Steve

11-12-2009, 12:21 PM

to watch Steve descend into depths of despair due to low blood sugar levels was interesting!

Steve went from a 'The End of the World is Nigh'

That was a nice gentle sugar-crash! The bad times are where I've ignored the "woe" stage and become a bit deranged. To give you perspective, I didn't lose my temper and, for example, throw an alloy wheel at anyone. Or remove the old diff with a sledge hammer (which crossed my mind just before the food happened)

It was fun, actually, and TBH if we'd not had the silly removal issue we would have finished it by now. I'd definitely feel confident doing it next time.

I had to pack all my stuff before I went to bed, so it was around 3am when I finally hit the pillow. I overslept, and had a flat tyre in the morning, so only just managed to make it to work for 0630.

Miller, did we accidently swap shoulders when we were under the car? I swear mine belongs to someone else....

miller

11-12-2009, 12:24 PM

ha ha ha now a sledge hammer would have been fun!

Turbo_Steve

11-12-2009, 01:23 PM

It's rolling the car on it's side to do it that's challenging. Need quite a few duvets..........

Spirit

11-12-2009, 01:35 PM

Fantastic work getting it nearly finished guys. As said, proves once again what an awesome club this is /yes :pimp2:

elnevio

11-12-2009, 04:43 PM

Well, I tried to purchase a 22mm ratchet spanner on the way home today. And it's a bit of a non-starter! Internet special is probably the way forward - but that's no good for this afternoon, and speeding up the finalisation process!

Anyway - I'm going back in! :dalek:

Nutter_John

11-12-2009, 04:49 PM

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Silverline-571523-Flexible-Head-Spanner-Ratchet-22mm_W0QQitemZ170303350532QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Ha nd_Tools_Equipment?hash=item27a6dee704

VR4WGN

11-12-2009, 06:10 PM

Why dont you guys try non AYC?? i havent blown 1 yet and havent lost handeling much at all without it either.....
my car took a right beating but it handled it no problem..

th main problem is you need to keep checking your AYC fluid,if its Brown then you have a problem Most of the Time!!!,the housing round the bearing cracks and the fluids mix,and then lose their properties and the pressure becomes too great wich then leaves you eating Diff flakes for Brekki..iv got a write up still to do re the AYC diff and on how to inspect if its any good,but getting round to it,lol.. still looking for a Round To it!!

psbarham

11-12-2009, 06:15 PM

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Silverline-571523-Flexible-Head-Spanner-Ratchet-22mm_W0QQitemZ170303350532QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Ha nd_Tools_Equipment?hash=item27a6dee704

we use silverline at work because they are cheaper than a snap-on to throw down a 10 meter wet well full of **** :o the standard rachet spanners are very good for the money, the flexi head ones are crap, they flex to easily so skinned knuckles are a common occurence :(

anyway, good work gents :thumbsup:

aboo

11-12-2009, 06:49 PM

Great work guys & as said before it shows how great a club this is how everyone clubs together when a member is in need of help.

Nutter_John

11-12-2009, 07:26 PM

we use silverline at work because they are cheaper than a snap-on to throw down a 10 meter wet well full of **** :o the standard rachet spanners are very good for the money, the flexi head ones are crap, they flex to easily so skinned knuckles are a common occurence :(

anyway, good work gents :thumbsup:

Never said it was any good :) , normally i would not use there stuff but given that it is a tool that would sit there getting very little use I made the exception on this one

elnevio

11-12-2009, 08:33 PM

It's all a learning experience!

Just got pop the last few bits on, then fill up both diff oils, and the AYC reservoir, bleed - then test! :D

But I'm off out in half an hour... back on it tomorrow morning!

Mice_Elf

11-12-2009, 08:50 PM

to watch Steve descend into depths of despair due to low blood sugar levels was interesting!

"Interesting" is one word... I swear, I used to have to have doughnuts on standby for when Steve came home from work. Throw a couple at him as soon as the door opened & by the time he'd reached the kitchen, you could almost guarantee that everything would remain the same shape... After a few more, coherent words could be heard.

Am glad that you managed to get it mostly sorted, Nev. I think Steve secretly likes working on cars with other chaps. He doesn't get a lot of "man-time" 'round here. The few men in the close are either DDIY-ers (Don't Do It Yourself) or as uninterested in cars as sheep are in show-jumping.

Turbo_Steve

11-12-2009, 08:59 PM

Well done Nev! That was quick work! Did you have to drop it off the brackets completely, or just tip it?

Knew it would go in easier than it came out (thank goodness).

Good luck with the filling and bleeding - I assume your glamourous assistant will be available (rhymes with Ninja).

Q: AYC is what makes it the car it is. Taking it off makes it something else.
And I refuse to believe it handles anything like the same without AYC. 300bhp and a plate diff is going to be far "livlier". 300bhp and a viscous diff simply isn't going to corner as quick.

(Though, whether it's just because you're on the committee and people are sucking up I'll let you decide)

Gary, I'm not sure I like your inference? Most of us are mates on here, and if I was 20mins up the road from you I'd be only to keen to do the same for you, as I know you'd be keen to return the favour. I'm not up there with Nev now as I am 200 miles away with my family, who are more important when I haven't seen the all week. On a thursday night, it's just the inside of the hotel.

Nick Mann

11-12-2009, 10:28 PM

A prefacelift diff is 24mm bolts for the gear oil, 17mm for the AYC fill and a 10mm hex for the AYC drain. A facelift diff is 17mm for both fills and 24mm for both drains.

It's worth checking what your car has before buying specific tools, as I have seen a couple of pre facelifts with the facelift combination of bolts.

chris g

11-12-2009, 10:48 PM

It;s nice to know which tools I might need to buy if I ever went near this sort of job but...

Oh no, not me, not ever...

And I thought 'Confused' was being humourous...

Members being helpful to committee members...

Get favours etc from the powerful...

miller

11-12-2009, 10:52 PM

And I thought 'Confused' was being humourous...

Members being helpful to committee members...

Get favours etc from the powerful...

id invite you to spend 8 hours outside at 0 deg and find that comment humourous!

Gowf

11-12-2009, 10:59 PM

As i have said steve, now i no longer have the gayc (and im sure some others, Mr Barham for one, know what im talking about), it is a totaly different car. It requires thought in a corner, whereas before you could just hold your foot in, you have to be aware that it will snap on you. This isnt a bad thing, you just have to be aware that its doing it and then correct as required and use the throttle to steer.

The main advantage that i've noticed recently is that the diff in mine is set up to full 2way lsd (its currently about 50% so not savage if you want to drive sensibly) so when you lift off it allows you to slow down progressively. By this i mean you can break mid corner with a lot of control. It just makes it so much easier to control.

Thing is they are not cheap, and are definately not to everyones tastes. If you have and like the ayc, then a plate diff is probably not for you, esp if you dont have that much experience of driving whilst looking forward out of your drivers/passengers window. As with anything though, you get used to it, but you dont have that ease of point and squirt cornering that the ayc allows, doesnt mean its any slower though.

chris g

11-12-2009, 11:02 PM

OK Mike, not so funny with your extremities going blue but still not a vindictive or nasty comment...

Confused

11-12-2009, 11:26 PM

For those who ignored the wink smilie - yes, I meant it purely in jest.

I in no way think or are inferring that anyone was only helping Nev just because he is on the committee. If I was close by, and could help, I'd have been there too, just like I would do for anyone. As, yes, I would appreciate the favour being returned.

Nev saw it in its intended manner - purely and simply as a joke, and in no way serious at all.

Anyway, back to the topic in hand - glad to hear you've got it mostly all back up and together, Nev :) Hope the final push goes well tomorrow, and you're back terrorising the roads again! ;)

Garry

Turbo_Steve

11-12-2009, 11:41 PM

now i no longer have the gayc, it is a totaly different car.

AYC is what makes it the car it is. Taking it off makes it something else.

Well, at least we agree on that bit, anyway :D :D :D

I've not tried it as you have, so I don't know, but for most of us the VR4 is a daily driver which will go fast, safely and quickly, without 100% concentration: a serious diff is a bridge too far, much as a full 3" baffleless exhaust system is for these people.

Now, if you're building a serious track car, then I'd start looking at AYC with doubtful eyes......and possibly the chassis too!

Gly

12-12-2009, 04:25 AM

small correction...

the big cog is the the crown,
and the small cog you still have in the housing is the pinion,

but good stuff to everyone that helped out,

im on my 3rd rear diff, and IMO its a fairly easy job to do now :)

Subaru ETA

12-12-2009, 12:13 PM

chris g

12-12-2009, 12:33 PM

Car had ATF cooler, ? not pushed hard on track, lubed by Amsoil, no extreme weather conditions/high temps so must be the inherent flaw in the car...

...the auto box...

...must be affecting other components...

Or perhaps not...

elnevio

12-12-2009, 01:22 PM

elnevio

12-12-2009, 01:25 PM

im interested to know what is actually causing them to go in such a big way.. i mean diff housings dont just crack!

im thinking that maybe the pinion gear is coming loose at the flange and getting play in it. this is causing it to slowly smash teeth and eventually crack the casing.

this would explain why they are letting go when the car is being launched or anything like that
I was under the impression that the casing can flex a little - possibly a little too much, presumably thus allowing movement between the parts and reducing the tooth-to-tooth contact area. The increase in pressure on the teeth snaps bits off (I recovered a few whole teeth), which subsequently force themselves through the clearance gap between the gears and the casing, causing the casing to bulge/crack.

Does this sound reasonable?

Turbo_Steve

12-12-2009, 02:11 PM

I'd be interested to get that brokey diff on a bench with a big pry bar and see what's actually moving: looking at those photos I can almost imagine the pinion mashing against the casing there, though it could easily have been bits of the crown that have been chewed between the casing and the pinion that did the damage.

mesobitchy

12-12-2009, 02:22 PM

seen the munched up pics, man!!!
that looks like a hot knife through butter! infact its looked so soft... christ! sooo any closer as to what you think might have caused this to happen?

bradc

13-12-2009, 08:01 AM

elnevio

13-12-2009, 10:03 AM

I'd imagine Nev's theory (post 100) is perfectly correct.

Now Nev, could you confirm if there are any cracks in the diff casing that goes between the gear part and the ayc part? I'm going with the possible theory that the ATF has been forced into the gear oil part under pressure (when the pump actuates it gets up to 16 bar or so)
Would I be able to see these externally?

If so, I might need pointers so I can check closely. I don't recall any cracks on the outside other than the ones already pictured.

bradc

13-12-2009, 10:24 AM

If you have a look at the internal casing between the two main gears and the AYC clutches you should be able to see it.

elnevio

13-12-2009, 10:32 AM

If you have a look at the internal casing between the two main gears and the AYC clutches you should be able to see it.
I assume that's not me looking closer at the casing in this pic: http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=31420&d=1260521134

And that I have to take the outer case off from the other side too?

elnevio

13-12-2009, 12:10 PM

Never did get any more done yesterday - didn't have the time. About to get back on it now, although the thought of the smell of ATF and gear oil isn't exactly hangover-friendly! :sick2:

elnevio

13-12-2009, 05:10 PM

Anybody have any suggestions of where I can cannibalise an M10 nut from? Mitsubishi's perseverance with the less-common thread pitch of 1.25mm is irritating, to say the least. Unsurprisingly, all the M10 nuts and bolts offered by Halfords and B&Q are all 1.5mm-pitched. I was having a nose around the engine bay for ideas.

Or if there is an M10 nut and bolt somewhere that I can replace temporarily with an M10 nut and bolt with a thread pitch of 1.5mm, so I can use the 1.25mm-pitched nut?
I've had no joy. We're off round our friends in half an hour, so I've canned it for the day - with a grand total of almost zero progress today. :furious4:

I'll be ordering the arms from Camskill in the morning, and hopefully they will be able to get them to me for Tuesday, for an evening fitting! The Swift is now in Smug Mode, being our sole chariot for the time-being!

bradc

13-12-2009, 06:54 PM

I can't remember which way around the diff is, but yes the casing in the background of that pic, or the other side that has been removed.

White Lightning

13-12-2009, 09:34 PM

Ah, so do you need to remove the rear camber control arms to change the diff? If so, that's handy as I have got some new arms awaiting fitment.

Turbo_Steve

13-12-2009, 09:37 PM

I would suggest it's better to free up the wheel hubs as much as possible, yes.

Nev....I can be at yours for 1600h if it'll help?

elnevio

14-12-2009, 02:42 PM

Wayne, I now understand that removing those arms is not essential for this job. But it's a good time to replace them.

I have had an epiphany while at work - I have my old track rod ends at home - which should be complete with the same M10 x 1.25mm nuts as per the rear ball-joint. Here's hoping so! And just need to find them...

Anyway, I am about to order the left rear arm, as that's the only one in Camskill's stock. The right one is a special order only, but I may as well get that from Mitsi direct, then collect it when it arrives, rather than pay extra for delivery from Camskill.

Currently, both of the arms are listed at Camskill for £63.61, inc VAT. However, the right rear ones are out of stock - and have now gone up in price! Couple of weeks until delivery too, potentially. The right rear arm is now £71.79, inc VAT, and the left one is also going up, to £74.60, inc VAT. So will actually cost a little more in the New Year, due to the change in the VAT rate back to 17.5%.

But I digress...

To summarise, I have ordered both rear arms, one from Camskill, and one from Mitsi direct. I will not be replacing them until the New Year, it would seem. And I will dig out a TRE to see if the nut on it will do the job for now, and then reassemble everything to at least get mobile for a few weeks.

Steve - thanks for the offer :iloveyou:. Will let you know!

Turbo_Steve

14-12-2009, 04:41 PM

I'd suggest that if we hadn't removed them, we'd have struggled for a lot longer trying to get the shafts into the diff.

bradc

14-12-2009, 07:08 PM

I managed to remove the diff and reinstall it (mostly) by myself without touching any suspension arms. The only help I had was lifting the diff up into place. It is a bit fiddly and probably took just as long though :)

Turbo_Steve

14-12-2009, 09:59 PM

But it wasn't raining. Or below zero. Or dark. Or after midnight.

bradc

14-12-2009, 10:38 PM

None of those! You could come to NZ and install diffs for us! :)

keithatport

14-12-2009, 11:06 PM

Try doing a torque converter seal in those conditions....

Turbo_Steve

15-12-2009, 08:48 AM

Keith...nah I'd take it to a garage for that...or maybe Peter Thompson? :D :D

elnevio

17-12-2009, 05:00 PM

:bananadan

keithatport

17-12-2009, 05:02 PM

Keith...nah I'd take it to a garage for that...or maybe Peter Thompson? :D :D

I did, but he made me help:bigcry:

Turbo_Steve

18-12-2009, 01:22 AM

LOL....Did you learn much, Keith?

Nev...../bananaroc

We'll do the brakes next!

miller

18-12-2009, 10:04 AM

:bananadan

All done then?

Excellent work!

Mike

Nick Mann

18-12-2009, 08:48 PM

I thought the brakes was yesterday?

Turbo_Steve

18-12-2009, 09:19 PM

We did one car. But it wasn't the VR4. We were then dissuaded by the HORIZONTAL SNOW!

Nick Mann

18-12-2009, 11:15 PM

We did one car. But it wasn't the VR4. We were then dissuaded by the HORIZONTAL SNOW!

Pair of ponces.

:hat: :evilgrin: :smug:

miller

19-12-2009, 06:22 PM

Ye finished with my stands and jack yet? or is every car in the street being serviced? :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :dance: :dance:

elnevio

22-12-2009, 10:44 AM

Yes indeed. The diff is done and complete - and as if by magic, the perfect weather turns up for testing purposes! :D

Big thanks to Turbo_Steve, miller and Kieran for turning up on what we thought was the coldest night of the year, but turned out only to be a precursor of what was to come! We got 80% of the job done on the first night though. /grouphug

Then I procrastinated for a bit, got a bit annoyed with one or two aspects, then ended up entertaining Nick Mann while a few finishing points were ticked off the list... So, big thanks to Nick too! :thumbsup:

Then that evening, Steve came back up (beats a hotel room without internet access, I guess!) with a view to sorting out my front brakes (discs, pads and calipers), although I'd already taken the wheel off the Swift instead! So the front discs and pads were changed on that as the horizontal snow appeared, and all thoughts of the VR-4's brakes were promptly abandoned. Another massive thanks to Steve! :)

Spotted some bright red fluid on the snow under the rear of my right rear wheel arch over the weekend, but it seems that the AYC actuator reservoir was slightly overfull, so it's squeezed past the lid, and dribbled out through the bodywork. Had no more appear though. /yes

So in summary, all is good on the diff front. The Leggie has been impeccably behaved in the snowy stuff. So much so, that on my way home last night, I headed up a fairly steep side street in Sheffield, only to come across a Punto rolling back down the hill, as they'd been unable to get up the slope. So I had come to a stop (which you don't like to do on such slippery slopes!), waited patiently while they slowly turned the car around to go back down the hill, and I noticed that all four occupants were young lads. Obviously staring out of the window at me thinking that I've got no chance of getting up the hill! Then, as the space clears, I look across, smile, then set off up the hill with no bother whatsoever, leaving the four looks of amazement behind me! :D

And yes, Mike. Thanks for the use of the extra jack and stands. We will have to arrange their return soon. Planning on doing my gearbox ATF soon - maybe a good opportunity?

miller

22-12-2009, 10:55 AM

And yes, Mike. Thanks for the use of the extra jack and stands. We will have to arrange their return soon. Planning on doing my gearbox ATF soon - maybe a good opportunity?

Excellent its all done!

Lets organise a gear box flushing session for the New Year? My place maybe? Thats three gearboxes so far! Any more?

Mike

elnevio

29-05-2015, 05:43 PM

Oooops! :/

Colin Wiltshire

29-05-2015, 06:19 PM

Oooops! :/

Guess that "Ooooops2 means you never got around to doing the gear box flushing at Mikes?

elnevio

29-05-2015, 06:25 PM

Guess that "Ooooops2 means you never got around to doing the gear box flushing at Mikes?

Do you know, I can't remember!! I think we did one or two, but not mine?

Of course, my box failed a couple of years later, and since that, I have had a facelift box that we could never get working properly, which was then swapped out for a good early PFL box that has been great ever since.

Sadly, my diff has gone again. And without any heroics! /lol

Nick Mann

29-05-2015, 06:34 PM

Sayc!!!!!

Erni902

30-05-2015, 08:53 AM

:iagree:

elnevio

30-05-2015, 10:08 AM

Sayc!!!!!

You do realise that by making suggestions like this that you'll end up fitting it for me! /pan

wintertidenz

30-05-2015, 11:03 AM

Yikes, another one? You guys are pushing them too hard in the snow :P

Although... I have the fun job of replacing my AYC pump because it's failed... been putting it off for the last month...

Adam.Findlay

30-05-2015, 02:01 PM

make sure you bleed the pump properly. and the diff aswell

elnevio

06-06-2015, 07:29 AM

Super-AYC now installed! :thumbsup: /rally

Here's the hole in the old diff: /lol

72562

New diff sourced from a 28,000 mile Evo 8 whose owner had upgraded to an RS diff. The oil inside was still crystal clear. All for just £220! Total bargain! :deal2:

Of course, many thanks must go to Nick Mann for suggesting it in the first place, and foolishly agreeing to 'help' me fit it. Well, fit it with only a smidgeon of input from me! :joker: :2thumbsup /GJ