Vrooom, pshhht, bang, uh-oh Heidi we have no power...

[Beastlee]

Well I went into town earlier to collect the last of the parts I needed to do m ATF change and on the way back called in about a tracking check and some winter wheels. After 15 minutes telling the 2 old dears that ran the place about my car I went on my way. Of course to back up my words I needed action, even if it's -2degC outside. So I promptly gave it beans in 1st gear. All was well until I shifted gear and immediately after the pssht of the dump valve there was a loud bang followed by a lack of power! My first thought was that it was fuel related then after a lack of flames I suspected engine or gearbox failure....
After pulling up at the side of the road I was relieved to find it was just the elbow joint had blown off the throttle body and I knew this was a high boost issue. Relieved I undid everything, re-fitted and clamped it tightly down. All seems OK for now but I'm sure the car is lacking a little.

So having read a few threads about the seal and elbow I had a question that doesn't appear to have been answered before....will the elbow blowing off cause any major damage?

it's the first time it's happened to me since upping the boost but I am now running more like 12-13psi instead of 11-12psi which may have made the difference.

[TAR]

To the car....I don't think so

To your heart...maybe LOL

:happy:

[Beastlee]

It was the first time I got my car to make a nice backfire sound like I want it to do. I'm guessing the bang is to do with unburnt fuel as opposed to the sound of the elbow coming off.
Must admit I panicked a little once I realised there was no power, having spent all I've just spent and the time put in I would be gutted if the engine went.

[miller]

yes its quite a heart stopping moment. I have mikalor clamps here waiting to go on mine. With upped boost the standard clip coupled with age is more choclaty than Kraft Bourneville :evil2: :d

[foxdie]

Had this heart attack myself once, it certainly shaves a couple of years off your life :)

[Mark 4]

I had it several times with the standard elbow so I got a Pro Shop Lida one and it has never happened since.

[Atik]

Yep, had it here also. That burst of power before the pop feels super powerful though! I worked out a little trick to fix this as my old one used to pop off ALL THE TIME.

On the elbow, where the bit connects to the manifold, fold one or two of the tab corners so that you get extra purchase/grip. It then wont slide out so easily.

[Beastlee]

Yep, had it here also. That burst of power before the pop feels super powerful though! I worked out a little trick to fix this as my old one used to pop off ALL THE TIME.

On the elbow, where the bit connects to the manifold, fold one or two of the tab corners so that you get extra purchase/grip. It then wont slide out so easily.


Mental note made for the next time. Clamp seemed a little slack too so may have been an accomplice to the crime LOL

[swinks]

I've had one split (y-pipe to IC) on a way to Japfest last year, just while overtaking. One of the most scary moments I've had ever, especially with instant no gears and engine stalls.

[raph]

Ive had that happen to each and very turbo car ive ever owned..and everytime i thought " oh noo! ive broken it and caused irrepairable damge" ,after the first two incidents i always kept a flathead screwdriver and spare clamps in the boot .

I also found the cleaning the hoses (degrease) and then spraying a light mst of hairspray(!) causes the hose to stick , itll never fly off again .

[mattnz]

It has been the bane of my existence for the past month or so. Just got a new seal.

[Beastlee]

Clearly Mitsi didn't think anyone was going to up the power LOL

I ike the hairspray idea as I was thinking that a friction enhancer was needed.

[wesleyong]

I once had an IC pipe blow off on my Lancer wagon with 4G93T and wasn't sure why my car was driving terrible. I limped all the way back home at like, 30km/h.

After reattaching the pipe, the car was running quite rough. Turns out spark plugs were fouled due to the car trying to run extremely rich wit the IC pipe blown off. I took them out, sprayed them with brake cleaner and a scrub with a metal toothbrush thingo and it made a world of difference.

[Beastlee]

I knew there was an issue. Since this happened I have been thinking the car seemed lethargic....well I found out today that it is lethargic as I can't get anything more than standard wastegate boost at 7psi. It's a nice healthy 7psi but certainly not the 12psi I had before this happened! Have done a torchlight check but there's no sign of anything disconnected. Any ideas before I throw my teddy out the pram?

[Turbo_Steve]

Many:
Failed/Stuck actuator,
Failed boost solenoid (would explain the pipe coming off if it stick on bleed!), Boost controller has a safety mode?
Pipe isn't sealing properly?
Pipe has a split in it?
Plugs are fouled (unlikely)?

[mattnz]

I would have thought that another pipe has also blown off. When it first happened to me, one of the little vacuum tubes going into the elbow also blew off. But if you can't see it, it's probably around the boost solenoid.

[Beastlee]

Excellent work folks. It was one of the vacuum pipes to the fuel solenoid (behind the stock boost solenoid).
Can't be certain as I opened the garage doorto find the roads covered in an icy snow. I could barely get enough traction to get home and I've seen more 3 x AYC bars in the 800m home than I have the whole time I've had the car. The TC was having it's work cut out too. I figured I'd find a safe spot to see the effect of the KADs and boy, you only need to think about pressing the pedal before they've locked up completely.
Incidentally I had thought my brakes seemed a little soft earlier, I'm assuming that was due to the blown vacuum pipe too.

[confusis]

quite likely as the brake booster runs on vacuum

[Beastlee]

They certainly feel better now so hoefully it's fixed :)

[mattnz]

Good to hear it worked out.

[Beastlee]

Hasn't fixed a dammn thing. Still a gutless wonder and there's no sign of any more loose hoses.
So I try to service the car and it just plays up, I don't know why I bother.

[Beastlee]

The car drives as normal in every respect except that the EBC is not controlling boost. The brakes feel OK and it ticks over fine, I've looked under there and can't find anything disconnected. Will have to spend time with it over the weekend.

[Beastlee]

Many:
Failed/Stuck actuator, Would I get the stock boost? BOV is still operating as normal (I can hear it)
Failed boost solenoid (would explain the pipe coming off if it stick on bleed!), If the solenoid is stuck closed would I not get too much boost? Boost controller has a safety mode? It does but it doesn't appear to be active as it sees low boost
Pipe isn't sealing properly? Still possible, will need to check all pipes.
Pipe has a split in it? Possible but how I'll find it I don't know, no access to vacuum hoses nearby either!
Plugs are fouled (unlikely)?I did about 100m with the engine running and the elbow half off. Car seems ok otherwise, it's literally just as if i have no solenoid control
I'm royally fed up with it right now as it's turned into a money pit.

[Turbo_Steve]

Failed/Stuck actuator, Would I get the stock boost? BOV is still operating as normal (I can hear it)
Depends : if one wastegate is stuck open, one turbo won't spool: the other will work it's t!ts off.

Failed boost solenoid (would explain the pipe coming off if it stick on bleed!), If the solenoid is stuck closed would I not get too much boost? Boost controller has a safety mode? It does but it doesn't appear to be active as it sees low boost
If it's jammed on bleed, your boost will go mental - high as a kite.
If it's jammed shut, you'll get wastegate pressure.
Is your boost controller also your boost gauge?

Pipe isn't sealing properly? Still possible, will need to check all pipes.
Pipe has a split in it? Possible but how I'll find it I don't know, no access to vacuum hoses nearby either!
These are still the most likely causes.

Plugs are fouled (unlikely)?
I did about 100m with the engine running and the elbow half off.
Think we can ignore this one then

I'm royally fed up with it right now as it's turned into a money pit.
Time to pony up for that RS6+ :)
I'd hardly say it's a money pit: it's running stock boost without any issues, just needs an exhaust. Modifying cars ain't cheap!

[Beastlee]

Thanks Steve, have put the car in the workshop again as we're expecting another foot of snow over the weekend. I'll spend time stripping it down over the weekend and try to trace every vacuum pipe.
Because if the TUV in Germany most people can'#t do the kind of self servicing we do in the UK, hence the auto shops tend to stock simple things like car cleaning products and engine oils. Most of the stuff I need has to be bought from a trade supplier and where we are the choices are limited. Hopefully I can track down somewhere to get vacuum tubing locally as I'd like to replace the whole lot as I go.

I don't disagree that modifying is expensive, I'm just fed up with getting to the point where I think it's going OK then I find out something else needs doing. The money then set aside to do that specific thing has to be spent on something just to make it function as a car. I don't think the weather is helping as I can't even get out and use it when it does work!

[Turbo_Steve]

You could probably pick up a length of fuel hose?
If not, get yourself on e-bay and order some silicone vacuum hosing: you can get a pack of mixed diameter, couple of meter cuts for around £15 plus shipping.


If the car is boosting stock, I'd be taking a loooong hard look at my boost controller. Is it possible the elbow whacked the solenoid when it popped off? And broke it? If it's got plastic barbs, make sure one of them hasn't be snapped off: I've seen this happen!

[Beastlee]

Steve, The solenoid is out of the way of the arm, I've tucked it down under the flexi part on a secure mounting atop the gearbox. It's a Greddy Profec E-01 so yes it's combined gauge and controller and the solenoid is a quality unit with metal barbs. I'm heading down the workshop shortly and will strip it back, disconnect it and test it to make sure it's OK. Would be nice if I could force it to trigger from the E-01 just to prove it's working.
Everything seems OK and it holds 7psi perfectly. The main thing I noticed is that, even off boost, the throttle response is a lot weaker. I tried listening for air leaks last night but there was nothing immediately apparent.

[eyeballprawn]

Get a big syringe and connect it to your boost controller's input with a short length of vacuum hose. Then with the engine turned off, if you pressurise the syringe you should see you gauge move, get it high enough and you'll hear the solenoid clicking away. I've tested my Greddy Profec B Spec 2 like this before. You may need a helper to listen to the solenoid, but I could hear mine easily with the bonnet up and sitting in the driver's seat.

[Turbo_Steve]

What he said! :)

It sounds like it's just not bleeding.

[Beastlee]

Dammn, missed that post before I went, will try it tomorrow.

I applied 12V to the solenoid which was clicking happily. I have always had the common and NO ports connected and thought the NC port was blocked off. I looked to day and this appears to be open to the air. Is this supposed to be the case?

I stripped everything down and there's definitely no connections off but I did find this :
uploaded/4273/1264782675.jpg

I thought that would cause me other issues too though. Didn't appear to be leaking as the crack seems quite old, it was covered in filth when I found it.

[Turbo_Steve]

Unless I am mistaken, the NC opens when the NO closes, and they're not commoned.

What you COULD do is use a pressure resevoir (syringe? tyre? compressor?) connected to the common, and the pressure sense barb (if it has one). Your boost controller should cycle, and bleed the pressure.

[Beastlee]

Steve, will be trying that tomorrow. Also decided to try reconnecting the stock solenoid and see if I get a little more boost. That should let me know if the solenoid is having issues.
I have only tested it on the short length to the plug, I guess I need an assistant to listen whilst I do the same from the connector at the E-01 control unit. I suppose it's possible the wore has a fault but seems a coincidence.

[Beastlee]

Get a big syringe and connect it to your boost controller's input with a short length of vacuum hose. Then with the engine turned off, if you pressurise the syringe you should see you gauge move, get it high enough and you'll hear the solenoid clicking away. I've tested my Greddy Profec B Spec 2 like this before. You may need a helper to listen to the solenoid, but I could hear mine easily with the bonnet up and sitting in the driver's seat.


Just off to do this and it will be easier than normal to hear as it uses a boost pressure sensor in the engine bay so I'll be stood next to the solenoid as I do it. Will take a helper along just to tell me what the pressure level is from the E-01.

[Turbo_Steve]

Go steady: if you massively overpressurise it, you could damage the sensor, most likely ruining it's calibration.

If it's a large syringe, it shouldn't take much force to get a fair amount of pressure. 2 or 3 psi is possible by simply resting your thumb on it firmly.

[Beastlee]

Good news and bad news.....

I found the problem, and fixed it.......yes it was related to the elbow incident but no it wasn't a split or loose pipe.....yes it was EBC related. The route the wiring to the solenoid follows is along the back of the strut brace and then down under the elbow, the connector between the two being situated under the strut brace. As the elbow had blown off it had impacted the wiring, stressing it and, inside the connector, snapping the wire from the terminal. It was impossible to see and I thought I had already tested to see if the wires had come off but either I hadn't or not properly at least!
The makeshift vacuum tester had a slight leak anyway so I could only manage 7psi but I lowered the start point of the EBC from 9.0 to 5.0 psi to ensure it triggered the solenoid. Before the fix there was nothing but I chopped off the connecters and affixed a new set of crimps until I order a decent connector for it. Once we retried it the solenoid clicked away happily :) /woot
The bad news is that we had 6in of snow last night and now I can't take it anywhere to ruddy test it. Heidi did send us sideways through a bus-stop and central reservation in the Delica earlier, all was OK though, so I'm not taking chances in mine!

I've just issued some rep too /yes

[Turbo_Steve]

Really pleased that you've got it sorted, and that it isn't anything excruicatingly expensive. And there is nothing wrong with a couple of crimps IMO, if they're relatively sheltered from the weather.

If you find somewhere that will let you buy a single mating crimp-on multipin locking connector, please let me know!

Glad it's sorted.

[Beastlee]

Connector is taped up and tucked away for now. I only want a decent one because it's visible when at shows (well at the one show I do each year in Holland!).

[MarkSanne]

Good to hear Lee!

[Beastlee]

Ok, so the good news is I can confirm 12+psi of boost again! /rally

The bad news is my ABS/TCL/Skiddy lights will not go out! I'm sure it's something simple and related to the car sitting for 5 weeks but we'll have to see.

[Beastlee]

Good news (do you feel like you're on a rollercoaster yet?) the TCL/ABS issue is fixed. When the car sits a while, especially if I have the radio on for a while whilst I work, the battery partially drains. It's not enough to stop you getting the car started but enough to give spurious electrical issues. The TCL/ABS system seems particularly sensetive to these low voltages and will trigger a fault at idle.
A quick drive to get the battery back up to voltage and all is well in my world.

[elnevio]

(do you feel like you're on a rollercoaster yet?)
I think your car might have bipolar! :D


Glad it's currently on the up!! :thumbsup: