The "is LPG worth it on a VR4" thread...

[Jesus-Ninja]

So, is it? Given that I plan to keep the car for a good while, and cover quite some miles too, LPG seems worth investigating.

What I have found so far from the forum is that the DIY kits are probably not up to it, and pro installation is the way to go.

Anyone done this? What sort of costs are involved? What sort of mpg improvements should I typically expect to see? And, all in all, is it worth it?

[Nutter_John]

Yes , , £1500 ,wouter and Csaba

[Nick Mann]

IIRC Wouter had issues that were never fully resolved. I have no idea what they were though.

[WildCards]

AFAIK decent LPG kits are £1300-£1500. The rate of consumption remains the same but the cost to fill up is halved.

[VR4Kaos]

sounds intresting will much power be lost tho

[Nutter_John]

IIRC Wouter had issues that were never fully resolved. I have no idea what they were though.

Wouter had lots of issues , not sure how many were actually proved to be the LPG system

[Jesus-Ninja]

So how does the system work with tuned cars? And you reckon that I can cut my fuel bill in half? Mmmmm! :)

[Nutter_John]

Not quite half , but you will get a reasonable saving over the period of a year

[AlanDITD]

sounds intresting will much power be lost tho

next to none apparently!

[Nutter_John]

depends on how it is mapped , if you get it to use petrol when above 70% tps then you lose no power

[Jesus-Ninja]

And am I right in saying that you can switch between the LPG and the stock fuels systems quite easily?

[WildCards]

Not quite half , but you will get a reasonable saving over the period of a year

Well, around here Super is £115.9 and LPG is 63.9p.

12,000 miles a year, 20 mpg average on Super = £3161.35
on LPG = £1742.97

So in the first year you'll almost get your initial outlay for the the conversion back.

[Nutter_John]

And am I right in saying that you can switch between the LPG and the stock fuels systems quite easily?

Yeah if you get a proper mapped system you can control the switch over points

[swinks]

Anyone done this? What sort of costs are involved?

Also jkrzysztof80 has done LPG in Birmingham area to his Leggy. IIRC he paid 1500 mark ish, and no issues at the moment.

[jahooli]

hi, im new to the site and am looking to buy a legnum and get it converted to lpg.

I have spoken to a few garages that say they can do it in sheffield. they all charge the same between 1500 and 1600 quid for a multi point injection system. I have read some old posts about sequential systems.

what questions should i be asking the potential installers, does anything have to be done to the ecu?

existing LPGers comments encouraged!

taverymuch

[Robotnik123]

In New Zealand the most common LPG brand called Rockgas is 99 Octane. Is you LPG 99 Octane as well?

[ritch_w]

LPG generally returns a few MPG less than petrol.
Most multi point systems still cant cope with the demand under full load so will switch over to petrol.
switching between the 2 fuels is seemless (or it should be).
realistically given petrol is still used to warm the car up and on hi powered car / VR4 switches back to petrol under load expect running costs to be approx 60 - 70% of what it would be to run on petrol.

Having had a LPG car that was less technically sophisticated as the VR4, I'd suggest LPG is fine if you have a LPG garage withing 10 miles.
You can find a LPG specialist locally that knows their stuff.
Any problems you find might not get fixed.
You do not expect to magically run the car for 50% less.

[jahooli]

so does a sequential work better under load (i presume by load you mean heavy acceleration?)

[Ralliart1]

I have LPG in two of my cars.The cost of running is arround half like with petrol.Both systems are OMVL DreamXXI,works good,had some small problems with first one,like the vaacum sensor gone,later the water temperature sensor broken,issues sorted out on warranty.Both cars are tuned,the new one is "very"tuned,John know about wich car I'm talking about.In this one was fitted a OMVL wich is used for supercharged Landrovers,a 8 injectors system,two of them left blank.Depends how is mapped,you can have similar or more power like on petrol,but of course with high fuel consumption.In cold wheather must be remapped,because doesn't working properly with"summer"settings.I have the software and the lead and doing myself,with simple words must give her more gas at lower temperatures and change some other settings too.
Just for comparison,250miles cost me arround 35 quid.
The money invested in Lpg system is recovered on arround 15-18k miles.
I had plans to open a new thread with pictures,but never have enough time to sort it.
Hope this help.
Csaba

[Jesus-Ninja]

Csaba - That's really good info, thanks! :) Did you install this yourself, or did you get it done professionally?

[Nutter_John]

Csaba - That's really good info, thanks! :) Did you install this yourself, or did you get it done professionally?

Are you suggesting that if he installed it that it would not be professional :p

/bounce/bounce/bounce/bounce/bounce

Did you re-program the Autoronic for the LPG Csaba ?

[Jesus-Ninja]

Stop stirring, John! /STP :smash:

[Ralliart1]

Are you suggesting that if he installed it that it would not be professional :p

/bounce/bounce/bounce/bounce/bounce

Did you re-program the Autoronic for the LPG Csaba ?

I have somebody in Coventry who made the installation,must be a certified person due to paperwork,etc...The tank was fitted by myself.

The Autronic is not reproggamed John,I haven't software for it,and shame but knowledgment also not..The fuel consumption is lower with Autronic like other one with MAP2ECU,and I have much more power as well.

[Nutter_John]

You should be able to download the software from the web , only issue i would see is if they set a password and locked the ecu

Be interesting to see what results you would get on a Dyno with it running petrol and then LPG

[Ralliart1]

You should be able to download the software from the web , only issue i would see is if they set a password and locked the ecu

Be interesting to see what results you would get on a Dyno with it running petrol and then LPG

You mean the guys from ZEN locked the ecu?Will have a trip there in appropiate future,if is locked will ask them for password.
I'm interested too in Dyno results,hope this spring can sort out...

Sorry for/Hijack

[Jesus-Ninja]

Sorry for/Hijack

Not really a hijack, as this is all good info. I'd want to take it somewhere that's done a VR4 before and has a good reputation. I would be prepared to travel for that. :)

[Ralliart1]

Not really a hijack, as this is all good info. I'd want to take it somewhere that's done a VR4 before and has a good reputation. I would be prepared to travel for that. :)

I can give you the gasman details if you want,he did 3 Legnums till now,2 of them modified,shortly will do the 4th one for one of my mates.That is a pretty standard one.

Almost forgot....A couple of months later when my 2.car was done,the dealer from OMVL sent a letter for gasman to don't fit their system in VR4,cose should not work.IRL is not true.First car was done in july 2008,second in august 2009.We experienced also the maximum tank size wich fit the spare wheel room.This cost me one tank more,but now I have the dimensions for the biggest one.

[Nutter_John]

You mean the guys from ZEN locked the ecu?Will have a trip there in appropiate future,if is locked will ask them for password.
I'm interested too in Dyno results,hope this spring can sort out...

Sorry for/Hijack

Not that unusual for tunners to lock down ecu's to stop people tweaking them and then messing up etc ( also ties you back into them to get any other work done )

May also be worth you reading this
http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=298321&highlight=zen

[paulg23]

Just got my VR-4 so once I have driven it for a month or so (and the weather has warmed up) I will be fitting an LPG system. I have done it twice before and it isn't difficult. If you can change a brake pipe and wire in a stereo then you can fit an LPG system. I have been buying bits for the LPG system on Ebay over the last couple of months, so far I have an almost new donut tank (£40) and 6 new injectors (£50) so hope to get the whole lot fitted for less than £400. Some of the newer LPG ECUs have self learning built in so set up is quite easy.

[ritch_w]

Just got my VR-4 so once I have driven it for a month or so (and the weather has warmed up) I will be fitting an LPG system. I have done it twice before and it isn't difficult. If you can change a brake pipe and wire in a stereo then you can fit an LPG system. I have been buying bits for the LPG system on Ebay over the last couple of months, so far I have an almost new donut tank (£40) and 6 new injectors (£50) so hope to get the whole lot fitted for less than £400. Some of the newer LPG ECUs have self learning built in so set up is quite easy.

open a project thread and post pics and instructions on how you get on with this - as you can see there are several interested members! /GJ

[jahooli]

hi, just to clarify. Do I need to ask the company for a price on a sequential rether than a multi point?

thanks

[swinks]

Definitely, sequential one, so called 5th generation.
Also ask engineer if they did any turbo engine before. Quite important in terms of experience.

[feonix]

I've got a Romano N LPG kit on mine, its the sequential one i'm told, and to be perfectly honest i couldn't have enjoyed my car this long without it.

This kit has a dedicated ECU, has an injector for each cylinder and can be set to automatically switch when the system warms up (5 - 8mins). It also automatically switches to petrol when it runs out of gas and when gas is low and it needs the fuel, ie heavy acceleration like overtaking! the switch is in most cases instant with only the unit beeping to tell you its run out.

I do quite a lot of motorway miles and it is most economical at <65mph. The kit has been on my car 4 years now, and would have cost £1800 for the kit including the huge 77litre tank.

[Jesus-Ninja]

There seem to be a few folk comming out of the woodwork with LPG and on the whole the feedback is positive :)

I wonder if there's any mileage ('scuse the pun :D ) in a thread dedicated to saying what system people have, what they think of it, and where it was fitted, without the innevitable comments and tangents inbetween. I know my biggest fear is letting someone loose on my car who doesn't know it. Going somewhere with positive feedback is a must.

If I have to use the car for work, then this will become a no brainer, but for the moment money's a little tight. :(

[phosty]

...including the huge 77litre tank.

That's one of the big things that sits behind the rear seats isn't it? I had one in an old Rover 800 - not an issue because the boot was massive but in a legnum it would prevent the full load area being available.

In my Rover I also found the rear suspension sagged, especially when the lpg tank was full - I think the even bare tank was pretty heavy.

EDIT: My mistake - the 77 litre is a toroidal (according to here anyway http://www.tinleytech.co.uk/sizes.html#t - the one from my Rover was a 90 litre cylinder but I only managed 70 on a fill hence mistake)

[foxdie]

That's one of the big things that sits behind the rear seats isn't it? I had one in an old Rover 800 - not an issue because the boot was massive but in a legnum it would prevent the full load area being available.

Modern day systems tend to just sit in the space where the spare wheel would go, giving you your full boot space, at the expense of a spare tyre if you get a puncture.

(This snippet is for those thinking at getting LPG who think they'll end up with a big tank in their boot taking up all the space..)

[orionn2o]

Out of interest. How many garages do you guys have close to you that actually sells LPG? Reason being, I can only think of one near me which involves a 10 mile round trip in a direction that I never go!

[foxdie]

I guess I'm lucky, there's a Shell garage just under a mile from my home that does LPG.

Strongly thinking at converting mine to save money.

[feonix]

There is one about a mile from me, not the cheapest though. Jet garages are usually quite good for LPG. with the tank i've got i can go for miles, then as soon as i see a garage i'll just fill it up again. quite handy really!

There is a photo of the tank and filling connection in these pics somewhere:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/16056147@N08/4116261211/

[feonix]

and my slim spare wheel just goes behind drivers seat fine. Only ever me in it anyway...

[AlanDITD]

isnt it possible that LPG prices will eventually end up stuppidly sky high the same as petrol anyway?

[WildCards]

isnt it possible that LPG prices will eventually end up stuppidly sky high the same as petrol anyway?

Yes, the more LPG is used the more the government will tax it, just as the tax on diesel increased substantially a few years ago.

[AlanDITD]

Yes, the more LPG is used the more the government will tax it, just as the tax on diesel increased substantially a few years ago.

Yeah thats what i was thinking of, its daft tbh its only a matter of time....

so the answer to the question is it worth it, is most definately no - if you are somone who already runs LPG anyway!

[paulg23]

I first fitted LPG to a car 10 years ago and people were saying its not worth it because the 'government will increase the tax on it' back then... and they haven't. So don't let that put you off.

[Turbo_Steve]

Just out of interest, Paul, have each of the kits paid for themselves yet?

[WildCards]

I'm not sure i'd subscribe to the thought that LPG doesn't pay for itself. It needs to be looked at for an individual case I think, if you're doing the sort of mileage where the conversion would pay for itself inside a year, then i'd go for it TBH. A few years ago LPG was the saviour, it seems it went out of favour as quickly as it came in and hybrid is now the new kiddy on the block.

The government will only rape LPG if they think they're losing enough money by not doing so, at the minute they're obviously not, make hay while the sun shines i'd say.

[paulg23]

The government will only rape LPG if they think they're losing enough money by not doing so, at the minute they're obviously not, make hay while the sun shines i'd say.

This is exactly the point. LPG has not become popular enough to appear on the 'tax radar' and probably never will now. I suspect it has never become popular because there is so much mis-information about it. This suits the government because they can pretend to be green (LPG was/is a by product of oil production) by keeping tax low on it.

My LPG sytems both paid for themselves in under 6 months but I was doing 30k miles a year then.

[peter thomson]

I've had 3 kits on cars and all had paid for themselves in a year or less

[feonix]

I've had 3 kits on cars and all had paid for themselves in a year or less

Enough Said!!:rabbit:

[ex-derv]

I'm dead keen to get mine done given that i'm on target for 24k this year. So, where the best place to go and the best kit? Don't mind travelling - can the work be done in a day?

[dcipeeps]

there was always an advert in the local freeads, advertising a 12 volt pump for the big kilo lpg cylinders, apparently then you need to make a cradle for it, turn it upside down and the lpg will pump out with this pump. therefore not needing a local garage as such!!!! think it used to cost £240 - £280 something like that.cost of big cyliner prob 50 odd quid!! I'l try find number out whether it hekps anyone out or not! :thinking: ????????

[ex-derv]

Been talking to this guy who is pretty local to me - recommended by the Power and Peformance exhaust people at Honingham who said he'd seen a few cars done by him and was having one of his own done there. The guy at Kelcrow reckons a 'Stargas' system or a'Zavoli' is the way to go on a VR4 and would cost £1750 + VAT. I know this sounds a bit strong but thought having it done locally might be easier in case of problems. Any htoughts on the suggested kits etc?


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