FL v PFL

[VR4Kaos]

im i right in thinking that all trhat changed with the fl is the foglights and braking system are they the same engine and running gear or is one quicker than the other and handle better than the other/Banana

[giblet]

All the facelift cars were 280bhp, whereas the pre facelift auto's were only 260. You can get more info by reading this - http://www.clubvr4.com/index.php?page=BuyersGuide

[VR4Kaos]

so its not 260 bhp in auto and 280 bhp when switched to trip ? im confused

[aboo]

260 PFL auto, 280 PFL manaul & 280 for both with the FL.

[VR4Kaos]

so mine been a 1998 pfl semiauto is only 260bhp :(

[Kieran]

so mine been a 1998 pfl semiauto is only 260bhp :(

Don't fret, I think it's fair to say that when you compare two standard cars with no issues, the difference in real world performance and driving isn't really noticeable; they all tend to knock out dyno and Quarter Mile results on a par with each other when you test them out.

[Nick Mann]

All auto VR4s have the tiptronic box. And all prefacelift cars with that box are 260 bhp.

Mechanically there is no fundamental difference, but there are a few minor differences. The most notable being the change of hub carrier that allows Evo brakes to be bolted on directly. The facelift cars had a bigger internal diameter on the throttle body and the entrance to the intake plenum.

Fundamentally, if you control the boost and fuel on both a facelift and prefacelift auto, there is no reason why the 20 bhp difference will not disappear.

[VR4Kaos]

thanks for the reassuranced lol

[VR4Kaos]

dose the ecu out of the face lift go straight in the pre face lift and would that give me the missing 20bhp?

[Turbo_Steve]

Karl, dude, you REALLY need to learn to use the search function...all of these questions have been asked many many times before.

In short...the ECU makes a difference, but it's not the whole story.
And if you're planning to tune the car, I wouldn't worry about the 20bhp as with the same mods on, a PFL and FL aren't going to be that different...certainly not 20bhp.

In fact, you're likely to get more than 20bhp difference between cars with identical mods fitted, simply because they're all over 10 years old!


Stop worrying about FL / PFL - the main differences are cosmetic.
If you want the car to go faster, start planning your modification route.
In terms of "bang for buck" your best bet is to buy a boost gauge first, get used to how it behaves, and then buy a Mechanical Boost Controller (MBC) a month later: set it to 0.8 - 0.9Bar and enjoy the newfound performance. It's a night / day difference.

However, I'd give the car a really good service, do the cambelt, all the fluids and the plugs and leads first, including upgrading the plugs to 7s, or you may find it doesn't like the extra boost at all!

[giblet]

I have been thinking about turning the boost up on mine for the past few weeks now. The shopping list started off with a boost gauge, a pod for it and a manual boost controller. Then I thought why not add oil pressure and oil temp gauges at the same time, and then realised I would need to upgrade the plugs. On top of that I thought why not get some uprated leads as well.

So its gone from a £50-£60 shopping list to a £250 one :sick: However thats now on the backburner since I need to replace the lower arms first :(

[aboo]

You dont have to get it all at once Gib.

It took me the best part of a year to get to where I am with my car but the first thing on my list was Boost gauge & MBC.

I know there are a few on here that would say do other things first but I did the boost thing first & the car was fine. I only did the plugs & leads at the end of September.

[VR4Kaos]

point taken t-ste i have had it serviced with new cam and timing belts fluids and plugs and leads however will be upgrading the standard plugs and leads and redoing the fluids with club recomended oils and leads as not sure what they used when they seviced it i will take your advice on the boost gauge and controler but gib has a point of doing all three at the same time would you agree with putting all 3 gauges in at same time then boost controler at a later date thanks for your advice again m8

[aboo]

If your going to up the boost then fit the gauge first & run the car for a couple of weeks to see what your standard boost is doing then fit the MBC.

Remember that you will get more boost in the winter with the colder weather than in the summer with the warmer weather.

If your going to up the boost go for the 7's sparkplugs.

This is the MBC I went for & had no probs. Seen others go for diffrent ones & had probs.

You can get them of Ebay for £20

32404

[VR4WGN]

talking about throttle bodies being larger has nyone realised that the intake is NOT really bigger?? if you measure the back of the bodies youll notice that the hole is still the same size,its only the entranc ewich differes wich is actually pointless correct?

[VR4Kaos]

thanks aboo ;) could you please send me the correct ebay link to this one so i dont mess up :)

[Turbo_Steve]

Definitely need a boost gauge first, and TBH you might as well upgrade the plugs - it's all very well saying "and mine was fine" but it's only got to be "not fine" once, and the worst case is a melted piece of spark plug rattling around inside the cylinder. Granted, it's unlikely, but wouldn't you know it's happened to me!?

[aboo]

Item number 350268871838 on Ebay. Changed a bit with the one I bought but its the same guy I got my one from.

If you can afford to do all the gauges, plug & leads at once go for it but I could'nt thats why I did all my mods over time.

[VR4Kaos]

thank you ;)

[giblet]

I am just planning on saving up and getting the lot done in one go. Dont really wanna run the risk of messing anything up by having the boost turned up but with stock plugs. Plus I plan on tracking it at Japfest, along with some "spirited" driving on some pistonhead meets and general countryside sunday drives so makes sense to have it all done and stable

[aboo]

I hear what your saying gib & as I said if you can do it then do it.

I ran my car to japfest from Aberdeen & did 2 sessions on track with the boost up a little.

Never made it home as the TC seal gave up the ghost but I knew I had an oil leak but never knew where it was coming from even with Peter Thompson having a look at it as well.

Not trying to undermine anyone but I dont think its all doom & gloom doing mods in different order to what is said on here.

[VR4Kaos]

ordered that manual boost contoler along with a boost gauge but will not use til uprated my plugs and leads as advised by the experts here @ cvr4 thanks peeps ;)

[Turbo_Steve]

You're correct, Aboo, however you mustn't underestimate the fact that there is an element of risk involved in modifying the car "out of sequence".

Stuff like Plugs is a safety mod, not a power mod, similar to gearbox coolers and oil pressure gauges and so on and so on.

Doing it out of sequence is okay as long as you understand the potential for damage / failure each step involves. For example, I wouldn't give a stuff about changing the leads: the worst case scenario is that it fails to spark properly under boost. However, I WOULD do the plugs, and as they're a ballache to get at, I figured for £50 I might as well do the leads too.

[VR4Kaos]

yes i understand this now since reading previous posts ;)
which plugs would be recomended and leads might aswell do em both init :)

[giblet]

yes i understand this now since reading previous posts ;)
which plugs would be recomended and leads might aswell do em both init :)

They were mentioned in your other thread - http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46224

Magnecor KV85 leads, and NGK BKR7E-IX plugs iirc

[aboo]

I agree with you whole headedly Steve but as I'v said its down to what you can affored at the time & what I knew about modding at the time.

When I started modding the car I never knew what sequence to do it in as I was a newbie to all this & with what I'v learned on here I know what your saying.

I'm just trying to help other newbies & going by my experience in my short journey with these beasts.