Auto box, Servicing it and wave spring

[miller]

Okay it seems like the Oz guys have made leaps and bounds in this deptartment, ive had a read through their thread and its made me want to service my box. Now i need a full flush so it makes sense to do it at the same time.

This is the OzVR4 thread http://ozvr4.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8035

Nick / Richy / Eurospec have any of you chaps done one of these?

Is it literally just the wave spring and the seals? Im presuming by seals they mean the torque converter seal?

Input greatly appreciated?


Mike

[godzilla]

Is it literally just the wave spring and the seals? Im presuming by seals they mean the torque converter seal?


The seal(s) that Dylan (Eyeballprawn, Thread originator) is referring too is the brake retainer seal. The torque convertor seal is un-touched during this "fix".

I recommend all auto VR4 owners read his thread. It is simply an awesome read and without a doubt, will help a lot of AT VR4 owners undertake the uprating of their wave springs without having to remove the box.

[orionn2o]

I just read this too.

It looks like a great piece of info and I suspect i've seen part of that wave spring before lol

[Pablo]

anyway i can read it without joining oz site??

[orionn2o]

no I dont think so.

Its free to register though

[miller]

Am i right in reading that thread through a few times that there are two levels of service, ie just accessing the wave spring with the gearbox still in and then level two removal and pretty much replacing every serviceable item?


Mike

[orionn2o]

I took it as the main wave spring replacement with some "optional extras". Although I didn't read in massive detail, I just took it that i'd need a copy of that guide if I ever looked at doing this job!

To be honest if I was going for this job, i'd want the whole lot done !

Just need to get Gowf primed, and i'll be good to go :)

[Kitty's VR4]

You'll have to register, but there is no charge for using the site or any of it's guides, they only ask for donation if you want to use their classified section!!

[eyeballprawn]

I have done this procedure and am slowly in the process of documenting it!

It's pretty cheap, but a little more involved than I originally thought. However the transmission stays in the car which is a big plus. There's not much that needs to be replaced, the biggest expense is the liquid gasket goo.

If you have a bit of experience working on cars then don't wait for me to get my act together, the PDF of the gearbox manual is all you need. And if you get stuck just yell for some help. There are a few of us who have done this now.

[eyeballprawn]

Am i right in reading that thread through a few times that there are two levels of service, ie just accessing the wave spring with the gearbox still in and then level two removal and pretty much replacing every serviceable item?


Mike

If your car has low mileage then apart from the wave spring you only need replace the seals (not the torque converter seal though) and maybe the valve body gasket if you damage it in the process.

The job should take you no more than one evening's preparation, and a full day to complete the procedure.

[godzilla]

Am i right in reading that thread through a few times that there are two levels of service, ie just accessing the wave spring with the gearbox still in and then level two removal and pretty much replacing every serviceable item?


Mike

Mike

The point of this service is to replace the OEM crappy, weak wave spring with an uprated replacement, fully solid unit. In order to do this, the box does not need to be removed from the car. If your clutches are in good condition, there is no need to replace them.

It is a pretty well know fact that Mitsi should have recalled our auto's after so many failures of the wave spring. When or if the OEM wave spring breaks, it sends pieces of it through the box destroying other crucial parts rendering the box destroyed. If and when this happens, we all know what and how much it costs to fix.

Think of this fix as a precaution. Doing this minor fix now may prevent your auto ever going BOOOOOM!


Edit. Dylan beat me to it!

[miller]

Wow guys thats brilliant, i am going to order the 'goo' and the wave springs and get on with it. My car is very low mileage so i just want to be on the safe side.

Which i presume are these two items

1 x 2741A007 SPRING,A/T L-R BRAKE WAVE
1 x MD974421 LIQUID GASKET,A/T

Should i also consider doing the torque converter seal aswell? No problems with it currently. Though isnt that a Box out job hmmmmm

[Nutter_John]

Doing the TC does need the box out

[Mark 4]

Well I've got an old box sitting in my shed waiting for a full overhaul. I had hoped to do it over the Xmas break but money is a major problem at the moment so I didn't get around to it. As soon as I have funds I will be ordering a full kit. Will no doubt post on here for some info/guidance when I finally get around to it.

[miller]

Right i have added the Valve body gasket and other seals to the shopping list as per Dylans post on OzVR4

1 x 2741A007 SPRING,A/T L-R BRAKE WAVE
1 x MD974421 LIQUID GASKET,A/T
1 x MD757211 OIL SEAL,A/T 2ND BRAKE RETAINER
6 x MR486844* O-RING,A/T CASE
1 x MD756673* O-RING,A/T CASE
1 x MR486686 GASKET,A/T VALVE BODY
2 x MD760146 SEAL RING,A/T CASE (Optional)
2 x MD760147 SEAL RING,A/T CASE (Optional)

Im presuming /Hmmm the last two seals arent needed if im just aiming at the wave spring replacement?


Mike

[orionn2o]

If ya manage to get some prices out of UK Mitsubishi. Plonk em up here please Mike :)

(I bet they're not as cheap as the NZ equivs!) - Might need to get a job lot posted over!

[miller]

If ya manage to get some prices out of UK Mitsubishi. Plonk em up here please Mike :)

(I bet they're not as cheap as the NZ equivs!) - Might need to get a job lot posted over!

Im on my way to Chris Variava in Notts now, i just need clarification on exactly which seals i need, as i suspect that list includes everything to complete the whole works, whereas i only need the wave spring and associated seals


Mike

[miller]

My understanding of this list. Parts just needed for the wave spring replacement are highlighted in red. Am i on the right track?

1 x 2741A007 SPRING,A/T L-R BRAKE WAVE £TBC
1 x MD974421 LIQUID GASKET,A/T £60.588 + vat
1 x MD757211 OIL SEAL,A/T 2ND BRAKE RETAINER
3 x MR486844* O-RING,A/T CASE
3 x MR486844* O-RING,A/T CASE
1 x MD756673* O-RING,A/T CASE
1 x MR486686 GASKET,A/T VALVE BODY £4.38+vat (part number upgraded to MN168327)
2 x MD760146 SEAL RING,A/T CASE (Optional) £6.01+vat
2 x MD760147 SEAL RING,A/T CASE (Optional) £4.07+vat

edit: prices just in for some of them!

[godzilla]

Edited your list. Holy crap you are getting ripped on the gasket goo.
60 pounds is well over AUD$100


My understanding of this list. Parts just needed for the wave spring replacement are highlighted in red. Am i on the right track?

1 x 2741A007 SPRING,A/T L-R BRAKE WAVE £TBC
1 x MD974421 LIQUID GASKET,A/T £60.588 + vat
1 x MD757211 OIL SEAL,A/T 2ND BRAKE RETAINER
6 x MR486844* O-RING,A/T CASE
1 x MD756673* O-RING,A/T CASE
1 x MR486686 GASKET,A/T VALVE BODY £4.38+vat (part number upgraded to MN168327)
2 x MD760146 SEAL RING,A/T CASE (Optional) £6.01+vat
2 x MD760147 SEAL RING,A/T CASE (Optional) £4.07+vat

edit: prices just in for some of them!

[miller]

Edited your list. Holy crap you are getting ripped on the gasket goo.
60 pounds is well over AUD$100

Cheers chap! I thought that when i saw it, though i have to apply my 15% discount to that too, which will nearly cancel the VAT off!


I had read that only three of those seals were needed if the wave spring was being replaced on its own.


Mike

[godzilla]

Mike, see here
http://ozvr4.com/forums/showpost.php?p=151286&postcount=146

[eyeballprawn]

You will need everything on that list apart from the last two items, which are four metal rings MD760146 & MD760147. Mitsubishi calls them seals and recommends replacing them but looking at mine I couldn't see any noticeable wear. But they are cheap and really don't take more that a few seconds to replace, so unless you are totally skint I can't see why you wouldn't replace them.

The asterisks next to the other rubber o-rings is to bring to your attention that these can be hard to come by in genuine parts and that you may need to order a few weeks in advance in case they have to be back ordered. Aftermarket alternatives are listed that you can source yourself by ringing around a few bearing or oil seal shops etc.

[Davezj]

wow that is a massive thread full of great info.

i would love to see the full write up of the job but from what i can see you have covered just about all angles in the thread.

this is something i would consider doing as i have a spare gear box in the shed and it seems it would be an ideal thing to do an auto box while off the car. at least then i will know i have a tip top box to go back on the car when i need to replace it in the future (not too soon i hope).

Have some rep to be going on with

[kinkyafro]

This is really interesting to me as a 3cm piece of wavespring dropped out of the sump with my last atf change so I know that mine isn't in mint condition (although 12k miles later the Cars driving fine). Wish this procedure was known before I had my atf and torque converter seal done.

Rep to Mr.Prawn for his research and documentary graft.

[eyeballprawn]

It will be an easier job if the auto box is off the car, but there is no reason at all why it can't be done in the car. That's the whole reason this is of interest - no need to take the box out.

But if you are taking the box out then you may like to do some other work too, like replacing the internal filter from the torque converter side.

Leaving the box in the car, in order to gain full access to the valve body side the left hand intercooler piping and radiator needs to come out. I have just procured a second hand box with the intent of taking some photos of the valve body removal procedure, which I am currently missing from my draft guide.

[CARMEL120]

i will be doing this also great write up it will save alot of autoboxs from breaking have some rep

[MikeKey]

Nicely done Mr. Prawn! I had a couple of bits of wave spring come out with a previous ATF change so would be very interested in this :)

While we're on the subject of AT servicing, where in the UK have people taken their AT boxes to be rebuilt/reconditioned?

[eyeballprawn]

If you have already noticed pieces coming out you should put this job on your urgent list. Once bits have broken off, the remaining wave spring can move about loosely and the ends can poke out through various gaps around the recess it's retained in jamming up and damaging other components or snapping off and going through the pump destroying the box.

[Nick Mann]

I have never done this procedure, although I am more than willing to try! It makes a lot of sense - I have heard of several boxes with bits of wave spring appearing from the sump when the fluid was drained. I guess those are the lucky ones where the box didn't destroy itself when the spring started to disintegrate. I have to agree with the advice give though, if you have seen bits of wave spring leave your box and it is still working, don't delay getting the job done - the rest is still in there somewhere!

[Kieran]

This is brilliant news. I daresay that a lot of the 'unexplained' Autobox failures have been because of this.

One comment I would make though - I presume if one has had bits of mangled wave spring drop out at ATF change time, it would be wise to replace the gearbox filter too? What I'm thinking is bits of old, broken wave spring could still be floating around the filter - if one worked loose and got spat around the internals, it could still be game over.

The only downside is that alters the job from in situ to gearbox out, doesn't it.

[Nick Mann]

Good advice, K.

[richy rich]

Sounds like a time to have a look at the box I've got sat out side just need the time and better weather to get my garage sorted.

[CARMEL120]

were abouts is the internal filter located then

[richy rich]

You need to take the bell housing of to get at it, and you can only do that with box out.

[giblet]

Right, time to ditch the performance plans, and start saving for this plus a tc seal considering the mileage of my car

[eyeballprawn]

That's right, to change the filter you need to take the gearbox out because it can only be replaced from the torque converter (engine) side. If you don't want to take the box out now, then the perfect time to replace the filter is when your torque converter seal is being replaced.

However, if you have a strong magnetic pickup tool (pref. neodymium) then you can poke around the filter to look for any pieces that may be lodged in the plastic body or the element underneath. Those neodymium magnets pretty forcefully snap to anything within a few centimetre radius and you will know if it finds anything, even inside the filter.

It has been reported that the wave spring pieces can make their way around the edge of the filter element due to manufacturing fault. Whether this affected all of our cars or only some.. who knows.

While looking around with the magnet for pieces that hadn't flowed out when the ATF was drained I found another piece sitting in the bottom of the box. It's really worth your while to have a good look while you have it all apart.

[CARMEL120]

tried to order the bits today from mitsi and they could`nt find the part no`s an there database they said the wave spring part no wasnt even for a mitsubishi




/woot2 /woot2 /woot2 /woot2 /woot2

[miller]

ha ha ha Which Mitsubishi dealer was that?

Chris Variava rang me today to ask me to wait whilst they wait from price confirmation from Japan and that they hadnt forgotten me!

[eyeballprawn]

I've confirmed those part numbers in person at a Mitsubishi dealer in Japan where I purchased them from and in an email quote from Ralliart NZ. For a few of the parts I also got a local quote from a dealer here in Australia. Wave Spring is definitely the one for us. Perhaps your dealer is just a lazy idiot, so best find another one that is actually helpful & enthusiastic.. they do exist!

[CARMEL120]

ha ha ha Which Mitsubishi dealer was that?

Chris Variava rang me today to ask me to wait whilst they wait from price confirmation from Japan and that they hadnt forgotten me!

donnelly group in londonderry main mitsi dealer in n.ireland, havent a clue what i was on about see what tomorrow brings ,sent an email to the parts guy tonight of the info on this post

[miller]

Just got these back from Nottingham's Mitsubishi Dealership. Chris Variava.

All prices need VAT added on to them.

I have ordered mine and they expect them in within 14days.

1 x 2741A007 SPRING,A/T L-R BRAKE WAVE £6.79 (-5% Discount)
1 x MD974421 LIQUID GASKET,A/T £60.588 (-15% Discount)
1 x MD757211 OIL SEAL,A/T 2ND BRAKE RETAINER £7.39 (-5% Discount)
6 x MR486844* O-RING,A/T CASE £1.39 (-5% Discount)
1 x MD756673* O-RING,A/T CASE £2.99 (-5% Discount)
1 x MR486686 GASKET,A/T VALVE BODY £4.38 (-5% Discount) (part number upgraded to MN168327)
2 x MD760146 SEAL RING,A/T CASE (Optional) £6.01 (-5% Discount)
2 x MD760147 SEAL RING,A/T CASE (Optional) £4.07 (-5% Discount)



Total cost with my discount works out at £99.01 + Vat.




Nick, you got an empty slot between the 13th and 20th March? If not Richy have you a slot? Do you fancy it?

Im passing that way en route to Ireland and can leave the car with either of ye for that week!



Cheers

Mike

[CARMEL120]

this is the email i received from mitsi 2day funny mine is different than millers


2741A007 X1 - £6.79 code E 10-14 working days from order

MD974421 X1 - £48.99 code E 5-8 working days from order

MD757211 X1 - not available

MR486844 X6 - £1.39 each code E 5-8 working days from order

MD756673 X1 - not available

MR486686 X1 - supersedes to MN168327 - £4.38

MD760146 X2 - £6.79 each code E 5-8 working days from order

MD760147 X2 - £6.79 each code E 5-8 working days from order

had to contact mitsubishi trevor, they did there best to get the prices for u and u can also see availibility there.
just those two part numbers aren't available anymore.

regards
adam

[miller]

how are they not available? Mine have been ordered!

[CARMEL120]

i emailed the parts guy at mitsi your parts list miller so will no better tomorrow whats the problem

[eyeballprawn]

i emailed the parts guy at mitsi your parts list miller so will no better tomorrow whats the problem

You are really going to have to source a..

MD757211 OIL SEAL,A/T 2ND BRAKE RETAINER

.. before you can do this job. That seal gets destroyed during disassembly. It's a weird little thingy, and no alternative but genuine for this. I know they were used on a few variants of this transmission, including some Mitsubishi Magnas here in Australia, so someone will be able to source them. I would not be surprised if some Hyundais also had them because they also used variants of the box.

But if you can't find a..

1 x MD756673* O-RING,A/T CASE

.. then call some bearing or oil seal shops with the specs for the aftermarket alternatives I listed in the OzVR4 thread.

[richy rich]

You are really going to have to source a..

MD757211 OIL SEAL,A/T 2ND BRAKE RETAINER

.. before you can do this job. That seal gets destroyed during disassembly. It's a weird little thingy, and no alternative but genuine for this. I know they were used on a few variants of this transmission, including some Mitsubishi Magnas here in Australia, so someone will be able to source them. I would not be surprised if some Hyundais also had them because they also used variants of the box.

But if you can't find a..

1 x MD756673* O-RING,A/T CASE

.. then call some bearing or oil seal shops with the specs for the aftermarket alternatives I listed in the OzVR4 thread.
Can the 2nd brake retainer be taken out of the vale body before you remove the internals and not damage it.

Ill have to have a look at the box ive got this weekend.

Have some rep for your work on this.

[eyeballprawn]

Cheers. I was looking at the little bugger that came out of my box tonight while explaining the process to someone and had the same thought about taking it out via the valve body first. When fitted, the fragile lip of the seal squashes right up against the second brake piston and possibly pushes between it and the casing. My feeling is that when you pull it out backwards the lip will get caught. But you can always give it a go and see what happens!

Just be aware that if you damage the seal in the process then you won't be able to reassemble your box until you can order another one in. If you need the car for work you'd better hope it doesn't have to be back ordered from Japan!

Theoretically you could also not replace any of the other seals either. The o-rings are probably right to use again, the metal seal rings seem solid, you might not damage your valve body gasket etc. Overall it's a cheap job and I wasn't going to cut corners, I'm hoping not to have it apart again for a while.

So my recommendation would be to order all the parts, and if you don't end up using them all then offer up the leftovers here to other members contemplating this procedure.

[Nick Mann]

Mike - I was speaking to Rich yesterday and we are up for this as a joint thing if it's alright by you.

VERY good rates are available as it will be the first one either of us has done.

We have several boxes to have a good look at first too.

:thumbsup:

:D

[miller]

Mike - I was speaking to Rich yesterday and we are up for this as a joint thing if it's alright by you.

VERY good rates are available as it will be the first one either of us has done.

We have several boxes to have a good look at first too.

:thumbsup:

:D

Two are fine by me! Means i can leave the car in Stoke when passing through! Plus gives you a week to have a go! :helmet: :bananadan :hat:

Cheers


Mike

[miller]

Okay Nick and Richy the parts have arrived so this is all confirmed!
I picked them up from Chris Variava this morning.

Cheers


Mike

[richy rich]

Okay Nick and Richy the parts have arrived so this is all confirmed!
I picked them up from Chris Variava this morning.

Cheers


Mike
Cool

[miller]

and this my friends is one of the weirdest gaskets I ever did see!

[CARMEL120]

im still waiting for mitsi to get back to me they say there waiting on holland to email them how long did you wait miller i might have to use your man

[miller]

i ordered mine on the 24th. They came from Japan, your dealer is sprouting sh1t if its anything different!

[CARMEL120]

do you have a contact no for your man miller if i dont get any joy here i will order the parts of him
cheers
trevor

[miller]

Rest of my parts have arrived plus I ordered front shocks for the Airtrek last Thursday. I was told 3 weeks for delivery! Result! They arrived today so that means a comfortable journey to Eire!

Trevor, try another dealer near you if you havent had any luck, i would imagine Chris Variave parts dept would direct you to a NI Mitsi delaer.

If not you need to ask for Andy in Parts Dept on 0115 8553040. That is Chris Variava of Nottingam.

Cheers

Mike

[CARMEL120]

thanks miller all sorted now should have the bits in a a week or so
cheers trevor

[skye]

i need help in figuring the easiest way to pull my gear box out

[peter thomson]

i need help in figuring the easiest way to pull my gear box out

There is a fulll guide in the members section. £20 to join and will save you hundreds if done by a garage. Even less as you are in Oz

[Turbo_Steve]

I was thinking about doing this, but I'm scared of that gasket.

[orionn2o]

I'm certainly watching this with a keen interest to Mikes results after the job has been done!

[eyeballprawn]

i need help in figuring the easiest way to pull my gear box out


There is a fulll guide in the members section. £20 to join and will save you hundreds if done by a garage. Even less as you are in Oz

This guide/article seems to be missing the three Word document attachments.. that contain the guide!

[peter thomson]

This guide/article seems to be missing the three Word document attachments.. that contain the guide!

Yes that won't help anybody at the moment!!!

[elnevio]

In that case, try the one in the library! http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19502

[richy rich]

Good news is Mikes car is done and up and running.

[eyeballprawn]

Good stuff, it's a pretty straightforward procedure once you get over the fear of opening up the box and expecting springs & things to shoot out across the room.

As for that article, thanks for the link. Seems to be a bit of duplication in those articles then, having two (or three?) pathways to similar info.. all with similar sounding menu titles too.

[Nick Mann Services]

Did some gearboxes have the uprated wave spring in them from the factory? Both of the boxes we have ripped apart now have had the uprated one in already.

/edited to re-phrase the question!

Is there any way of telling which gearboxes had the uprated spring?

[eyeballprawn]

I guess we need to find someone who has had the car since new to answer that at the moment. The other two people that did this fix on OZVR4 found theirs was the uprated spring. We were working on the idea that it may have been replaced at some stage, but perhaps we can figure out something in common. BTW, My VR-4 was manufactured 11/2000 and had the crappy one, OWC and no external filter. Can you post up any identifying details of the vehicle/box?

[Nick Mann]

One gearbox was bought 2nd hand from a breakers many years ago and then died. It is not a one way clutch and does have an external filter.

The other is also not a one way clutch and has an external filter. It is in a pre-facelift car. I'll work out the manufacturing date later and post it up.

[miller]

waahaaaay thats allways a good phone call to get!

Richy/Nick i will ring ye tomorrow to sort out pick up etc

Cheers guys

Mike

[Nick Mann]

Phone Rich, Mike! He is driving it back to his this afternoon.

[CARMEL120]

how big a job was it, and how long did it take ,is there certain way you have to line up the bits that is extracted or is just to keep them in order the way they came out .
cheers trevor

[scott.mohekey]

Did some gearboxes have the uprated wave spring in them from the factory? Both of the boxes we have ripped apart now have had the uprated one in already.

/edited to re-phrase the question!

Is there any way of telling which gearboxes had the uprated spring?

Have you checked the chassis numbers against the online mitsi recall database? It would be interesting to see if they were covered by some recall we don't know about.

[miller]

Have you checked the chassis numbers against the online mitsi recall database? It would be interesting to see if they were covered by some recall we don't know about.

When I checked mine for recall upon purchase here in the UK, Mitsi UK informed me that all the recalls were complete! If that helps.

[scott.mohekey]

When I checked mine for recall upon purchase here in the UK, Mitsi UK informed me that all the recalls were complete! If that helps.

But wasn't your auto box found to already have the new wave spring?

[richy rich]

But wasn't your auto box found to already have the new wave spring?
Yes that is true so it is a case know of finding out when they changed to a better wave spring and what cars if any have had this work done already.




how big a job was it, and how long did it take ,is there certain way you have to line up the bits that is extracted or is just to keep them in order the way they came out .
cheers trevor


This is not a massive job but it is a bit tricky.
Getting at the valve cover is a pain in the ass if there has been some dodgy mods. /Devil5
1 you need a clean area.
2 Be careful about witch bolts to undo on the valve body.
3 I would say the valve body gasket is a must as 2 out or 2 fell apart.
4 The reassembly can be a bit of a be atch again very tricky and you need some "car Maintance Patience TM"

That is what i can think of at the moment but Nick and I are looking at 1 doing a how to. 2 ofering a wave spring check/change 3 A gear box removel change wave spring TC seal change and a internal filter change.

[miller]

Massive thanks to Richy and Nick for sorting this out amongst other things. Plus the convenience of being able to leave the car with them helped me out no end.

Now its peace of mind that no damn wavey wave spring is going to bring me to a halt!

Cheers guys!

and seeing as i already had an uprated wave spring the one i bought will be going up for sale soon in the FS forum.


Mike

[CARMEL120]

richy did you take any pics mate and do you have to take of the valve body cover to gain access to the spring still waiting on my stuff from mitsy been over week now
cheers trevor

[richy rich]

we took loads of pics (not of Mikes but of Nicks out of the car) my intention is to do a how to.

We did take the valve body of but im thinking it was not 100% Necessary.
Although it may be a good idea to do it becouse both Mikes and Nicks valve body gaskets were fobard.

[CARMEL120]

was there any metal pins when you removed the valve body cover because my brother has a gto and he removed the cover and broke what looked like a pin

[richy rich]

no.....

[CARMEL120]

no.....


ok.....

[richy rich]

Pan removel as follows:

Remove air intake snorkel
remove battery and tray
remove rad
remove hard pipe to intercooler
drain box
remove dipstick and bolt holing wire loom on to pan
remove bolt on the side of the pan holing flow and return pipes to box
remove all bolts around pan
then just prise of the pan
job done

[eyeballprawn]

was there any metal pins when you removed the valve body cover because my brother has a gto and he removed the cover and broke what looked like a pin

Yes, there is a metal pin about maybe 2cm long that can fall out if you are not careful while removing the cover. Just make sure not to lose it, it's easy to put back in again. It goes back into a little hole in the top centre of the case's mating surface, and it lines up with a groove in the manual control lever shaft to keep the shaft in place and stop it moving up and down. The pic below should make it easier to understand!

[richy rich]

Yes, there is a metal pin about maybe 2cm long that can fall out if you are not careful while removing the cover. Just make sure not to lose it, it's easy to put back in again. It goes back into a little hole in the top centre of the case's mating surface, and it lines up with a groove in the manual control lever shaft to keep the shaft in place and stop it moving up and down. The pic below should make it easier to understand!
I didnt see that. Ill have to have a look again.

[Turbo_Steve]

Guys,

This is an awesome achievement!


In your gearbox explorations, is there a simple way of gaining access to the wave spring to check it....e.g. with an endoscope or similar?

I am guessing no, but it'd be nice if we could check a cross section of gearboxes and eliminate those with a particular part number (or something)

[Nick Mann]

No, Steve. You'll see when Rich posts the photos, but it it about in the middle of the box with plenty in the way.

[Turbo_Steve]

I pretty much figured as much, Nick, but thank you for confirming.

It's obvious Mitsubishi revised the design at some point in the run (external filter, anyone?) but figuring out when \ what the criteria are is going to be a beggar.

[scott.mohekey]

It's obvious Mitsubishi revised the design at some point in the run (external filter, anyone?)

I thought the external filter was on the earlier models?

[CARMEL120]

c`ant wait till see the write up richy and what steve said mate awesome achievement will save alot of autoboxs from breaking well done pity ur in england because mine needs done as well/wall /wall

[Turbo_Steve]

Smokey - that was my point - they dropped the filter at some point, presumably making some other changes at the same time. And there is the whole OWC thing....

[miller]

mine haz filter Steve! There goes that theory!

[Temptation]

I joined both Ozvr4 and ClubVR4, there seems to be a lot of rampage regarding about the A/T wave spring fixing.

Is the A/T Wave spring that weak?

And literally how many people has perform this strengthening?
Can I please see the show of hands...

[Nick Mann]

It's a very new thing. Not many people have done this yet. I'm not sure how many gear box failures have been due to the wave spring failing.

[Temptation]

It's a very new thing. Not many people have done this yet. I'm not sure how many gear box failures have been due to the wave spring failing.


Ah ok, so its only a new thing. Mines only 75k atm, but still wanna get all mechanic side of things sweeten up first before any other mods. =)

Any one else also perform this ?

[eyeballprawn]

Yes I have performed this :D

I luckily caught it in time, my wave spring was damaged but the gearbox was working fine at the time. However, fitting the uprated spring had the bonus of making my shifts mega quick now. I'm not sure if it was the spring itself or the seals etc I replaced during the process.

Whether it will die is not really to do with the mileage on the transmission, but it all depends on whether you have the inferior wave spring and if you do it will probably fail at sometime. At the moment there isn't any known way to tell without opening up the transmission.

I have acquired another unwanted, dead transmission from a pre-facelift (external filter & OWC) and a lot of metal came out with the oil. It's going to be interesting to see what the cause of the damage was.

[Hotwire]

dylan,
I'm posting from my phone so haven't been able to read the full thread, but I'm at MV*Automatic here in adelaide and mike said the 2 most common failures with the *A51trans is the wave spring AND the planetary set pins moving and failing. Did you get the planetary pins welded when you had it out? With these 2 fixes done mike said the boxes are then pretty much bulletproof as he has never seen the hydrolics fail in one.
Cheers
Lee

[eyeballprawn]

No I didn't but they were done up tight. I does sound like a good idea though. I wonder if it matters between PFL & FL because the planetary carrier is different. Ask him whether the ones that the pins came out from were only pre-facelifts.

[CARMEL120]

dylan,
I'm posting from my phone so haven't been able to read the full thread, but I'm at MV*Automatic here in adelaide and mike said the 2 most common failures with the *A51trans is the wave spring AND the planetary set pins moving and failing. Did you get the planetary pins welded when you had it out? With these 2 fixes done mike said the boxes are then pretty much bulletproof as he has never seen the hydrolics fail in one.
Cheers
Lee
what!!!!!!! i aint stripping the box again to check..............:givemebee

[Lateralus45]

Just Something i seem to remember from dawso's transmission thread on OZVR4 was that the uprated wave spring he used was actually from an older version of the trans.
So from what i've read today i would put forward that possibly some of the very early 96 Vr4's may have been made before they made the change to the dodgy wave spring. Whether or not this was done at the same time as the change to the internal filter still seems to be a question.

[Nick Mann]

Has anyone seen a box without the internal filter? I was under the impression that the internal filter wasn't added - it was always there. I have seen the internals of three boxes with an external filter and all had an internal filter too.

[Lateralus45]

You could very well be right i have no idea what i'm talking about most of the time.

[Nick Mann]

PMSL! I have been caught talking sh!t before too.... That's the second time recently I have heard that there might be boxes without an internal filter though.

[Lateralus45]

I was more referring to the fact that they changed from an external filter to no external filter so i wasn't completely full of sh!t.

Also i am hoping that my surmise (Is this even a word) turns out to be true as then i may not have a weak wave spring

[AwESiM]

does any one in the NZ club do this for club mates and how much :) i can handle putting in seats and doing stereo installs but i dont think i should touch engine and gear box stuff :(

[eyeballprawn]

Did some gearboxes have the uprated wave spring in them from the factory? Both of the boxes we have ripped apart now have had the uprated one in already.

/edited to re-phrase the question!

Is there any way of telling which gearboxes had the uprated spring?

I have a spare box on the bench here that I can cleanly read the numbers off, they are printed in dot matrix style near the external filter.

W5A513E6B
FH5909

I know the W5A51 is the tranny code, but are any of the other numbers a unique identifier for production run, version, serial number etc?

This box is from a pre-facelift and has OWC + external filter. Not sure of the wave spring yet, but something has seriously given way inside going by the crap that came out when I drained the fluid.

Can you guys gather the numbers off the boxes you worked on somehow and report them back here, together with the wave spring type they contained?

[eyeballprawn]

Confirmed the box above already has the uprated wave spring tonight.

[godzilla]

Then what the hell happened to it?

[eyeballprawn]

All those planetary carrier pins are firmly in place.. something on the other side of the box.. torque converter? Or maybe oil pump gear or even the diff. Will know soon!

[eyeballprawn]

Anyone know much about the pump? I've removed one from a transmission, and am trying to turn it by hand but it's not spinning. Should it spin freely? I'm trying with all my might so am wondering if there is anything stuck or damaged inside it.

[richy rich]

yep it should spin iirc.

[eyeballprawn]

Took the pump apart and it turns out the shaft is meant to be static. It's only the gear inside the pump that it supposed to spin, and the torque converter locks into it to do the spinning.

That gear is the final resting place for broken wave springs. It shatters when a piece of the spring finally makes it way inside the pump, jamming up the gears. After that it's game over and you need a rebuild, at the very least to replace the pump, wave spring and internal filter and to get the metal shards out of your box.

So this transmission's pump actually checked out to be OK. The problem could lie with the torque converter then, but impossible to inspect as it's a welded up non-serviceable unit. Splines look fine. It would have to go for a rebuild not knowing exactly what went wrong.

Anyhow, here are some pics of the pump internals.

[CARMEL120]

dylan you could start up autobox rebuilds and servicing mate

[wintertidenz]

Wow, great info... want to write up a DIY transmission service article? :P

[miller]

So the Airtrek boys also know about this which maybe points to newer boxes having the lesser wave spring. Have a read here

http://airtreker.com/forum/index.php?topic=2235.new;topicseen#new

[scott.mohekey]

"Only registered members are allowed to access this section." /pan

[miller]

"Only registered members are allowed to access this section." /pan

Sorry guys, basically someone was saying that all GTA boxes opened up needed the upgraded spring along with most Airtreks etc


Cheers


Mike

[CARMEL120]

you would think that mitsi would of done a recall on this fault or drawn up a how to guide
cheers trev

[Davezj]

hi guys and girls,
i need a bit of advice from some that has done this already.

i have a very small leak from the end cover of the auto box it is comming from the seal joint.
Is there anything i need to be careful of when i remove this end plate.

in prep for doing this i will

1. clean the external area very well, so no durt gets in to the box when the end cover is romoved. i was going to use a pressure washer and then brake cleaner to make sure it is spotless.
2. drain ATF from sump area.
3. remove end cover.
4. clean mating surfaces, i was going to do it with razor blade. then solvent cleaner.
5. apply RTV diff case sealer.
6. put end plate back on, and torque up.

it is as easy as that or will parts of the auto box fall out when i take the end cover off, and will i have to replace o-rings.

any help welcome.

[CARMEL120]

the overdrive clutch comes off as well dave if you could drain fluid and jack the car on drivers side to empty the box better but when you break the seal you will have remove the cover mate did you try and just rub some sealer around the casing first and let dry
richy and nick mann have done this as myself do you no if your wave spring has been changed
cheers trev

[eyeballprawn]

Instead of pressure wash do you have access to a compressor and air blower gun? Saves getting water everywhere.

You will be best to replace the O-ring seals that sit between the cover and the case while you are doing this too.

[Davezj]

the overdrive clutch comes off as well dave if you could drain fluid and jack the car on drivers side to empty the box better but when you break the seal you will have remove the cover mate did you try and just rub some sealer around the casing first and let dry
richy and nick mann have done this as myself do you no if your wave spring has been changed
cheers trev

unfortunately no, i don't know what sping is inside the auto box.

i don't want to pull the internals out as i have to do it at the road side. outside my house.

i have not tried sealing it from outside. it is a tiny leak but just builds up ATF over time get blown by the wind all under the car which is one of my pet hates. i presumed doing from the outside would not work. but i might as well give it a go. i will try it tonight. i have some Mopar RTV sealant in the shed and i can recomend if you are going to try and clean a leaking area use Brake and cluch spray cleaner, a small spay and an rub with kitchen towel and it is bone dry in seconds. that should give the RTV a good surface to stick to.

[Davezj]

Instead of pressure wash do you have access to a compressor and air blower gun? Saves getting water everywhere.

You will be best to replace the O-ring seals that sit between the cover and the case while you are doing this too.

If the sealing from the outside fails which i am thinking it will, then i will order the end seal o-rings and replace them as recomended.

the ones i need are the ones you posted up in the picture of the auto box with the end cover removed. the 6 small one (all the same size and mitsi part bag next to it great find) and the larger one bottom right if remember correctly. i would have posted a link up but OZVR4 is moving server at the moment and all links are broken.

[eyeballprawn]

Yes those are the O-rings you need. I actually had a similar leak from that cover, which is one of the things that spurred me on to have a crack at it. After sealing it all up again (with the Mitsi genuine sealant) it hasn't leaked or weeped at all.

[Davezj]

Yes those are the O-rings you need. I actually had a similar leak from that cover, which is one of the things that spurred me on to have a crack at it. After sealing it all up again (with the Mitsi genuine sealant) it hasn't leaked or weeped at all.


that's the one you star.

have some Rep! not just for the pic, but for all you hard work and perseverance with whole auto box subject really appreciated.

[CARMEL120]

dylan (eyeballprawn)has loads of pics dave he`s the autobox guru

cheers trev

[Davezj]

i put sealant on the outside of my tonight, i will find out if it has sealed it when i get to work in the morning. figers crossed.

sorry for the hijack!

[stormboy]

hi all been reading with great interest. Just ordered an '01' Legnum with 46k. From what i read no one knows yet which models have the weak wave spring? Will definitely be doing this on mine before i get too far out and about. Anyone in Adel Aust have exp with this?

Great to see so much work to help others much kudos

[Lateralus45]

From what we have seen an 01 will most likely have the weaker spring unless it has been changed. Make sure you jump on ozvr4 when it is back up if you didn't get on there before it went down. Also welcome.

[godzilla]

They all have the weaker spring.

[eyeballprawn]

hi all been reading with great interest. Just ordered an '01' Legnum with 46k. From what i read no one knows yet which models have the weak wave spring? Will definitely be doing this on mine before i get too far out and about. Anyone in Adel Aust have exp with this?

Great to see so much work to help others much kudos

You have the final variant used in the VR-4s, a W5A51-3-EZB transmission the same as me. There is a good chance you will have the weaker wave spring. The previous variant, the W5A51-3-E6B seems to have more chance of the stronger wave spring, and the original variant, the W5A51-3-E6A, apparently had the weaker wave spring.

W5A51-3-E6A = external filter, but no One Way Clutch (OWC)
W5A51-3-E6B = external filter + One Way Clutch
W5A51-3-EZB = One Way Clutch, but no external filter

We are building a database over on OZVR4, so when it gets back up again come on over and post up your transmission details.

[eyeballprawn]

W5A51 variants and their matching TCUs for the Legnum.

[CARMEL120]

http://vr-4.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=5169

[eyeballprawn]

Looks like someone else has already compiled this already then, good find.

But sorry, I forgot to do the Galants :(

[CARMEL120]

I have a spare box on the bench here that I can cleanly read the numbers off, they are printed in dot matrix style near the external filter.

W5A513E6B
FH5909

I know the W5A51 is the tranny code, but are any of the other numbers a unique identifier for production run, version, serial number etc?

This box is from a pre-facelift and has OWC + external filter. Not sure of the wave spring yet, but something has seriously given way inside going by the crap that came out when I drained the fluid.

Can you guys gather the numbers off the boxes you worked on somehow and report them back here, together with the wave spring type they contained?


looked tonight for the tranny code but cant see it all i see is owc mine i think is march 98 filter inside the box

[Hotwire]

Wow that list is great - so given that my car is Nov 98, with the W5A51-3-E6B I'm guessing its 50/50 chance of being the 2piece crap wave spring?

[eyeballprawn]

looked tonight for the tranny code but cant see it all i see is owc mine i think is march 98 filter inside the box

Sounds like your casing is dirty or corroded. Give it a clean up and have a look again on the rectangular raised section near where it says OWC, it can be a bit hard to read otherwise.

[godzilla]

Hang on, I have a E6B yet it is an an OWC and NO external filter?

Lee, were did you get the 50/50 from? O didn't think that there wad anything officially done about it or mitsubishi make the change in production?

[Hotwire]

Hang on, I have a E6B yet it is an an OWC and NO external filter?

Lee, were did you get the 50/50 from? O didn't think that there wad anything officially done about it or mitsubishi make the change in production?

I based my assumption on Dylans post here:

You have the final variant used in the VR-4s, a W5A51-3-EZB transmission the same as me. There is a good chance you will have the weaker wave spring. The previous variant, the W5A51-3-E6B seems to have more chance of the stronger wave spring, and the original variant, the W5A51-3-E6A, apparently had the weaker wave spring.
W5A51-3-E6A = external filter, but no One Way Clutch (OWC)
W5A51-3-E6B = external filter + One Way Clutch
W5A51-3-EZB = One Way Clutch, but no external filter

We are building a database over on OZVR4, so when it gets back up again come on over and post up your transmission details.

Thus why I was asking a question more than anything, is 50/50 fair shot, or is it more likely one way or the other?

[eyeballprawn]

We are trying to narrow things down a bit on OZVR4, but if you want to be 100% sure, open it up and have a look :D

[Hotwire]

Yeah I'll be getting it opened up, rather be certain

[CARMEL120]

thanks dylan found the tranny code

[CARMEL120]

[QUOTE=CARMEL120][QUOTE=godzilla]Hang on, I have a E6B yet it is an an OWC and NO external filter?



mine is the same facelift W5A51-3-E6B owc internal filter and lesser wave spring


cheers trev

[eyeballprawn]

Post up the serial numbers then, it will be interesting to see if the 3E6Bs changed mid-production and when. The serial number is the line underneath where the variant is stamped. It should be pretty obvious if you have an external filter as it's visible on the top of the box when you look down at it.

[godzilla]

[QUOTE=CARMEL120][QUOTE=godzilla]Hang on, I have a E6B yet it is an an OWC and NO external filter?



mine is the same facelift W5A51-3-E6B owc internal filter and lesser wave spring


cheers trev

Mine is PFL but yeah, same setup as yours.

I dont doubt that mine is the crappy wave spring. I am simply not lucky enough for it to be already uprated.

Dylan, i think i have asked you this before but do you need to remove the 2nd brake retainer seal to get and have a look at the spring? Therefor having to remove the valve body?

[eyeballprawn]

And for those who might not of seen this mess I posted on OZVR4.

[eyeballprawn]

[QUOTE=CARMEL120][QUOTE=CARMEL120]

Mine is PFL but yeah, same setup as yours.

I dont doubt that mine is the crappy wave spring. I am simply not lucky enough for it to be already uprated.

Dylan, i think i have asked you this before but do you need to remove the 2nd brake retainer seal to get and have a look at the spring? Therefor having to remove the valve body?


The seal is on the way to checkout the spring. It will get damaged when you pull the box apart and/or reassemble it if you don't replace it via the valve body. Or, it may even be damaged already. The one in Donkay's box already had a nick out of the lip, which I'm pretty sure didn't happen during the dissassembly process.

[CARMEL120]

Post up the serial numbers then, it will be interesting to see if the 3E6Bs changed mid-production and when. The serial number is the line underneath where the variant is stamped. It should be pretty obvious if you have an external filter as it's visible on the top of the box when you look down at it.


look 2morro mate in bed on the laptop

[CARMEL120]

Post up the serial numbers then, it will be interesting to see if the 3E6Bs changed mid-production and when. The serial number is the line underneath where the variant is stamped. It should be pretty obvious if you have an external filter as it's visible on the top of the box when you look down at it.


serial number i think its hard to see is M35624

[wintertidenz]

Wow, is that damage from a stuffed wave spring?

[eyeballprawn]

Here's some diagrams I posted over on OZVR4 regarding the layout of the various discs and plates, in case you accidentally get them mixed up :smash:

http://ozvr4.com/forums/showthread.php?8035-Strengthening-the-automatic-transmission-on-the-cheap&p=168763&viewfull=1#post168763

[eyeballprawn]

Wow, is that damage from a stuffed wave spring?

No, that damage was not caused by a faulty wave spring. The wave spring in that transmission was already the uprated item and was perfectly fine. I have a gut feeling that the damage stemmed from either yet another design fault, or if we are lucky then just a once off manufacturing error for this box :(

The nut on this shaft was supposed to be very highly torqued up, then locked with bent tabs. The tabs were locking the nut in place, so it's definitely never moved since original assembly. But after I bent the tabs out, the nut was only hand tight. This may have introduced play in the gears on the shaft and cause them to not mesh fully on occasion, increase the stresses on the the ends of the teeth and causing premature failure :violin:

[eyeballprawn]

It looks like the Mitsubishi MD974421 automatic transmission sealant is actually rebranded Three Bond 1281B. Is anyone in the UK able to check if 1281B is available over the counter from auto parts stores there?

I've posted some more info at the OZVR4 thread below, but I have been told by Three Bond Australia that it is an OEM only product and not available in Australia. They suggested 1207C as a replacement.

http://ozvr4.com/forums/showthread.php?8035-Strengthening-the-automatic-transmission-on-the-cheap&p=168972&viewfull=1#post168972

[eyeballprawn]

Could anyone please upload a photo of one of the weaker wave springs that is 100% intact?

I'm trying to figure out if the one shown in the below post is a complete item or not.

http://ozvr4.com/forums/showthread.php?8035-Strengthening-the-automatic-transmission-on-the-cheap&p=144808&viewfull=1#post144808

I also recommend anyone changing their torque converter seal to ensure the new one has retaining compound or sealant on it. I've seen two now that were half hanging out and could have popped out at any time.

[serioustir]

I wanted to read up on this post, but it says that I need an answer to this registration

[itsthepie]

Does anyone have a part number for the torque converter & main seal? Also just wanna make sure, they stopped using the ****ty wave springs by the 8g VR4's didn't they?

[MarkSanne]

I happen to have a complete set of all autobox seals + the improved ring (instead of the wave spring ring). I'll put in in the UK for sale section in a minute.

[adaxo]

Sorry for digging out very old thread but after reading a lot on here and on ozcvr4 Im struggling to find answer to my question, is there any info somewhere regarding which box have which wave spring fitted? it looks like earlier ones have a strong one piece spring and later have a crappy one fitted? is there definitive answer someone come across of which boxes are affected?

[Davezj]

Sorry for digging out very old thread but after reading a lot on here and on ozcvr4 Im struggling to find answer to my question, is there any info somewhere regarding which box have which wave spring fitted? it looks like earlier ones have a strong one piece spring and later have a crappy one fitted? is there definitive answer someone come across of which boxes are affected?

Have drained you auto box and found something Adam.


Sent from my space-aged gizmo

[Nick Mann]

I don't remember seeing anything definitive but I think your summary is correct.

[adaxo]

Ok I was hoping that some one figure out which exactly boxes are affected by now.
No Davezj I didn't drain box yet, must mot it before put £200 oil in it. It seems like some one mess about passenger side of box area as plastic cover is missing, need to look closely if there is more evidence of it being open b4, not really fancy taking it apart just to find out its all good there.

[Davezj]

i took the side off my old gear box to reseal the end plate from my black VR4 due to a slight oil leak.

it takes you straight into the planetry gear sets, the case of the 1,2,3, gear came out with the end plate along with some of the clutches and plates on my auto box, but i removed all the rest of the clutches and plates cleaned and refitted and align them all and fitted the gear casing back on. then i clean the mating surfaces of the auto box of old sealant and apply some RTV sealant and bolted it back up.

i mention this because this was the gear box i sold to ben at eurospec to fit into someones car. that car is now in the possession of a local friend and the gear box is still in great working condition. so you can remove the parts and put it back together and have it work just fine, and that was 6 -7 years ago.

so all was good.
so getting to the wave spring is not going to be that much more work.

[adaxo]

So you didn't change oring seals and any other just refitted it back at expense of only new selant?

[Davezj]

So you didn't change oring seals and any other just refitted it back at expense of only new selant?

yes that is what i did.
but since then i did buy a set of o-rings for the auto box, just i case i had to do it again. not sure where they are now but i have them somewhere.
you just have to remember to get the surroundings e.g. auto box case, wheel arch and anything else that can drop dirt around the gear box really really clean, before you crack open the gear box particularly when the gear box is still on the car.

[Grid]

IIRC it's a different story - back before the 8G came along Mitsi made the autoboxes with stronger wave springs, then early 8Gs saw weaker springs for "smoother shifting" and some time later in PFL times the stronger springs came back when it turned out the weak springs made spectacular box failures.

[Grid]

Some useful information and videos.
https://youtu.be/N9AWnr9Qwio

How to put the one-way clutch in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbM5c60zvME

If you get it wrong, the car will drive fine in reverse, but will barely drive in the forward direction. You will burn up the OWC. Ask me how I know.

An EXTREMELY detailed F5A51 manual:
http://shop.ukrtrans.biz/wp-content/uploads/catalogs/F5A51.pdf

Above file is unfortunately too large to place permamently on the forums. Link will probably go dead in the future.

The F5A51 box is quite popular and shares probably 90% of its internals with our W5A51 box. Main difference is the output shafts.

F5A51 equipped vehicles:

HYUNDAI:

EQUUS 2000 - 2008 (V6 3.0L 3.5L) - FWD
GRANDEUR XG 2000 - 2005 (V6 2.5L 3.0L 3.5L) - FWD
SANTA FE 2000 - 2006 (V6 3.5L) - F/4X4
SONATA 2006 - ON (V6 3.3L) - FWD
XG 2001 - 2005 (V6 3.0L 3.5L) - FWD
GRANDEUR XG 2000 - ON (V6 2.5L 3.0L 3.5L) - FWD
XG300 1999 - 2001 (V6 3.0L) - FWD
XG350 2002 - 2005 (V6 3.5L) - FWD

KIA:

AMANTI 2004 - 2005 (V6 3.5L) - FWD
CARNIVAL 2000 - 2005 (V6 3.5L) - FWD
GRAND CARNIVAL 2004 - 2010 (V6 3.5L) - FWD
OPIRUS 2003 - 2005 (V6 2.7L 3.0L 3.5L) - FWD
SEDONA 2002 - 2005 (V6 3.5L) - FWD

MITSUBISHI:

DIAMANTE 2000 - 2001 (V6 2.5L)

This video to give you a good idea of what it is like tearing down a Mitsubishi autobox, F4A51 model:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRaRVs1Ol0Q

[foxdie]

An EXTREMELY detailed F5A51 manual:
http://shop.ukrtrans.biz/wp-content/uploads/catalogs/F5A51.pdf

Above file is unfortunately too large to place permamently on the forums. Link will probably go dead in the future.

Now backed up here; https://www.dropbox.com/s/acp1rxoejbcak9l/F5A51.pdf?dl=0

[Confused]

Amended upload settings to allow up to 64MB files to be uploaded.

[Grid]

Cheers! Hope this helps somebody in the future. It did help me and my mechanic get to terms with the good ol' slushbox ;)