Best engine Oil and technique with VR4s

[scottie2hotti]

Well exactly what the title says. What viscosity oil do most of you use? brands? does anyone have a specific technique to prevent the lovely ticking sound from coming further down the track?

[Ghost_2008]

There are plenty of threads on here regarding engine oil so have a search, however Amsoil is the weapon of choice for the Vr4. I am currently using mobil1 fully synthetic 0w 40, this I find tackles the tappet noise very well.

The important thing is fully synthetic oil, usually 5w 35 to 0w 40.......

[Rambaud]

Personally, I would use synthetic in a turbo engine.

IMHO, 0W-30 is likely to be the best choice - unless the car is used on a track/racing or the engine is a bit worn, then a 0-40W or above might be more appropriate.

[Subaru ETA]

i use magnatec 10w30 in all my cars. both my legnum and my galant never had tappet noise.

[wintertidenz]

Castrol Edge 5w30 is fairly common around NZ, myself and Brad use it. My car starts to tap more noticeably when the oil is getting up to changing time, but my lifters have always been a little noisy on startup anyway.

[OnBoost!]

That reminds me,I need to do an oil change!

I haven't had a look,but is it hard to change the oil filter?




sorry for thread hijack...:p

[wintertidenz]

Richard - look under your bumper and up a bit, you will see the filter :)

[amsoil]

Be very careful with the 0w-40 grade We sell one but would never dream of telling people to use it in a VR4. There was a lot of cheap Mobil 0w-40 at Costco (I could say dumped at ). Reasons for not using a 0w-40 are as follows:-
It is not possible to make a 0w-40 without the use of lots of VI's (viscosity improvers to the uninitaited) The quantity required is usually in proportion to the spread of the numbers, in this case 40, in the case of a 10w-30 it is half of this ie 20. This use of lots of VI's makes the oil 'weak' It is the long polimers of the VI's that are literally chopped up and broken by the piston rings and by a combination of pressure and heat. This is a situation made worse by a turbo car, read this as not only extra heat and pressure from the engine but masses of heat in cooling the turbo. So what you may say... however you need to understand what a 0w-40 oil is. It is not a 40 grade (thickness) but a 0 thickness which does not thin with temperature as a zero does because of the resistance of the VI's. When the Vi's start breaking down the oil will no longer be able to remain at 40 when hot and this will reduce further with time. The oil will be quickly broken and with this the protection and surface film strength will be lost (reduced). IMHO a 0w-40 should only be used in something that is thrashed from the start and doesn't do great distances between services ie in ATV's go carts and the like. If a 40 weight (2nd number) is your choice then please consider going for a 10w-40 or at least a 5w-40.
We always recommend our trick 0w-30 as a first choice or the 10w-30 as the alternative, thicker on starting and until it warms up thus reducing the tappet rattle when cold. With the 0w-40 you ae liekly to quickly drop to a 0w-30 (but without the trick protection) before you drop to a 0w-20 etc.

[Ghost_2008]

Be very careful with the 0w-40 grade We sell one but would never dream of telling people to use it in a VR4. There was a lot of cheap Mobil 0w-40 at Costco (I could say dumped at ). Reasons for not using a 0w-40 are as follows:-
It is not possible to make a 0w-40 without the use of lots of VI's (viscosity improvers to the uninitaited) The quantity required is usually in proportion to the spread of the numbers, in this case 40, in the case of a 10w-30 it is half of this ie 20. This use of lots of VI's makes the oil 'weak' It is the long polimers of the VI's that are literally chopped up and broken by the piston rings and by a combination of pressure and heat. This is a situation made worse by a turbo car, read this as not only extra heat and pressure from the engine but masses of heat in cooling the turbo. So what you may say... however you need to understand what a 0w-40 oil is. It is not a 40 grade (thickness) but a 0 thickness which does not thin with temperature as a zero does because of the resistance of the VI's. When the Vi's start breaking down the oil will no longer be able to remain at 40 when hot and this will reduce further with time. The oil will be quickly broken and with this the protection and surface film strength will be lost (reduced). IMHO a 0w-40 should only be used in something that is thrashed from the start and doesn't do great distances between services ie in ATV's go carts and the like. If a 40 weight (2nd number) is your choice then please consider going for a 10w-40 or at least a 5w-40.
We always recommend our trick 0w-30 as a first choice or the 10w-30 as the alternative, thicker on starting and until it warms up thus reducing the tappet rattle when cold. With the 0w-40 you ae liekly to quickly drop to a 0w-30 (but without the trick protection) before you drop to a 0w-20 etc.

This is the first time I have used 0-40 (which maybe wrong because I havent got the container any more), I change the oil very regularly usually about the 2000 mile mark...... this is mainly because I do a lot of short journey's, but I dont thrash it about, I always allow the oil to get to operating temp....... but I'll look at a different grade next time, but given the journeys/driving I do I have found 0-40 pretty good at present......... Also I didnt buy my oil from Costco and it was far from cheap, and I'm sure it had some form of system protection formula........

[amsoil]

Actually if you are changing at 2000 miles it could work for you.

[Rambaud]

Don,

Are you saying it's just Amsoil's 0W-40 oil which will be inferior to its 0W-30/10W-30? Or does this apply to other companies' 0W-40?

Mobil 1's 0W-40 seems to be highly regarded in the US. Is it a different formulation to that sold in the UK?

[amsoil]

No not just Amsoil, anyones oil with that kind of spread of numbers will be full of VI's and therefore weak in that it will be chopped to bits. Remember that in the USA drivers have been used to 3,000 miles (max) oil changes for decades. Oil is cheap over there and yes also to Mobil being a different product in the USA, its superior to what we have here making comparisons very difficult.

[Rambaud]

Thanks, Don.

The price the Yanks can buy their oil for makes me green with envy. :veryangry

[OnBoost!]

Castrol Edge 5w30 is fairly common around NZ, myself and Brad use it. My car starts to tap more noticeably when the oil is getting up to changing time, but my lifters have always been a little noisy on startup anyway.


Doing an oil change tomorrow,so you would recommend the Castrol Edge 5w 30? I was gonna go with a 10w 30....

I don't suddenly wanna get bad lifter tick..:p

[Ryan]

10W30 would be perfectly okay Richard /yes

[sodge]

I recently topped up with some magnatec 10w40 as I was getting near low. The result was terrible lifter tick. As such I did a complete change last weekend to Castrol Edge 5w30 and a new filter. No more lifter tick :)

[bradc]

the lower the first number the better as that is simply how well the oil flows when cold. Hence you want it to be as low as possible as engine oil is always too thick when the car is cold.

[OnBoost!]

I recently topped up with some magnatec 10w40 as I was getting near low. The result was terrible lifter tick. As such I did a complete change last weekend to Castrol Edge 5w30 and a new filter. No more lifter tick :)


Sweet,I'll go for Castrol Edge 5w30 then.

[amsoil]

I'd stick to the 10w-30 rather than the 5w-30 for the simple reason that in general a 10w-30 will be more robust than a 5w-30 which can be significant on a turbo car.
You are basicly giving away a little cold start flow for an oil that is less likely to shear /break down under the heat and pressure of the turbo.
For a non turbo car I would certainly tend to go for a 5w-30.
Dont know about in NZ but in the UK Castrol have again cheapened their range and some 'edge' oils are no longer true top notch full synthetics. Most other oils are better than Magnatec.

[wintertidenz]

In NZ the 5w30 Edge is definitely synthetic. The Magnatecs are only semi-synth.

Unfortunately we don't get much of a choice in the way of affordable full synth oils, and the Edge 5w30 is the easiest (and probably cheapest) to obtain.

[amsoil]

A few years back in the UK Edge obtained a good reputation as a top of the range oil but was only available in a few grades; and it was good. 'Building' on that success the range was expanded and cheapened. It is not universal in that some of the harder to find grades are still true full synthetics but the rest are not but can be called a full synthetic because of case law (a hydro cracked mineral oil can be called synthetic) which was incidentaly brought and won by Castrol in the USA. So you cannot even believe what they say on the cans!

[OnBoost!]

Too late anyhow as I just finished doing the oil change with Castrol Edge 5w30..:p

[Subaru ETA]

at the end of the day it is each to there own! i have used amsoil in my car as reccomended here and it got a terriable lifter tick. with castrol it didnt.

[Rossco Type-S]

at the end of the day it is each to there own! i have used amsoil in my car as reccomended here and it got a terriable lifter tick. with castrol it didnt.

I have used Castrol Edge for the past two oil changes and I only get the Tick when it is due for another change. The lifters don't even tick on sub-zero mornings with Edge. I can't recall if I used 0W/60 or 5W/30, I think it was the later.

[elnevio]

I can't recall if I used 0W/60 or 5W/30, I think it was the later.
There really is quite a big difference in those! The former is more of a racing oil!

[wintertidenz]

Don't think they do 0w60's, only 0w50's?

[Rossco Type-S]

Don't think they do 0w60's, only 0w50's?

Found the remainder of the oil. I used 0W/40 for the Leggy and 10W/60 for the Airtrek. I knew there was a 60 in there somewhere. I think I may have used 5w/30 on the previous Oil change on the Leggy.

As an aside, I was looking at the Castrol Edge website, they recommend 0W40 or 5W30 for an Evo. In my user manual for my 4G63T powered Airtrek, it has a warning not to use anything below 10W30 otherwise the engine may cease. Certainly most forums recommend 15W40 or similar for a 4G63T

[taupodrifta]

I just did mine yesterday and used castrol edge 5w30 started it up this morning in the freezing cold got 2 tasp and then nothing. Quitest I have ever heard the engine in the year I have owned it so I will be using castrol edge again!!!

[White Lightning]

Don, what is your recommendation when a VR-4 is taken on track and driven hard? I was seeing oil temperatures up to 125oC at the Ring last weekend (I know Mike was seeing 150oC!) and I am still using the Amsoil SSO 0w 30. I was wondering whether I should change to something more 'race focused' for track usage and SSO for daily driving (which for me this is mainly short 3-4 mile journeys to and from work).

[amsoil]

Very good question, but the answer is also very good, like the oil. The SSO (formally TSO) 0w-30 is to such a high spec that we have for many years been using it in race cars with great success. This is incredibly tough oil. The 125c will be easily handled as will the 150c but the 150c is starting to get toooo hot. The problem will be inadequate cooling ie the rad will either be old and inefficient / too small for purpose or the engine is producing so much more power/ heat that an upgrade is called for. The SSO will survive until about 170c. This oil has a film strength many times superior to poorer oils and will therefore give excellent bearing protection but heat will reduce the film strength.
Bottom line is that for your car all is fine for Mike its new rad & or a nice oil cooler. I know that many people would advocate a thicker oil (and over heat it thereby making it thin) but this reduces efficiency and is a fudge not a fix.



Don, what is your recommendation when a VR-4 is taken on track and driven hard? I was seeing oil temperatures up to 125oC at the Ring last weekend (I know Mike was seeing 150oC!) and I am still using the Amsoil SSO 0w 30. I was wondering whether I should change to something more 'race focused' for track usage and SSO for daily driving (which for me this is mainly short 3-4 mile journeys to and from work).

[miller]

Cheers Don for the input, an oil cooler is a necessary item for me now, after the weekend and on my last lap i have an oil leak when the car is under pressure, oil is getting into the IC pipework and exiting at the joints. This ONLY happens when oil is hit 150deg ie at end of Ring lap. This also co incided with my catch tank filling up quite rapidly

At no other times do i see oil in the IC pipework or the catch tank.

Any thoughts?

Cheers

Mike

[Ghost_2008]

Cheers Don for the input, an oil cooler is a necessary item for me now, after the weekend and on my last lap i have an oil leak when the car is under pressure, oil is getting into the IC pipework and exiting at the joints. This ONLY happens when oil is hit 150deg ie at end of Ring lap. This also co incided with my catch tank filling up quite rapidly

At no other times do i see oil in the IC pipework or the catch tank.

Any thoughts?

Cheers

Mike

Could this be the oil expanding due to the tempurature??

[bradc]

That's pretty hot, what was your water temp?

[amsoil]

Oil in the Inter cooler is not so very uncommon; the seals being beaten in the turbo are the usual cause It doesn't take much oil to make things messy and usually once in there the oil stays and doesn't come out. Wouldn't worry too much about it unless you have a cupful or the like.
Oil in the catch tank is from one of 2 main reasons. First is that you have really poor oil that foams up in use this can force the foam /oil out of the engine and once out again it doesn't come back, but we can rule this one out if its SSO. The other is that you are getting pressure inside the engine which has to go somewhere, it can go out to a catch tank and take oil mist vapour with it (hence the oil in the catch tank) sometimes such a pressure build up can take out a seal which will then cover the underside of your car with oil if you are lucky; if not lucky you might see smoke behind before the back end of the car breaks away and puts you in the wall. It doesn't take much oil on the tyres to do this. In the circumstances of 150c the oil may well be coping but perhaps the rings on the pistons aren't, which is allowing the blow by. Loose the temperature and you might loose the problem. The Amsoil could very well have given you a margin that has allowed your engine to survived when another oil may have lost you the engine. Sometimes Amsoil is very cost effective, even cheap!

[Turbo_Steve]

Time for a rad-flush / replacement, then? :)

And possibly to relocate that intercooler.

[miller]

me thinks a rad flush is imminent! drop the oil and refill with some fresh stuff!

[amsoil]

I think in your position I would be getting a new rad, maybe even an uprated one with more rows in the core; Thinking of which I have just done that myself and must fit it this week!
I got mine made from Dockings at Silverstone but thats full custom with boxes etc I just might have got change out of 1K but i don't want to look and check!
Oil cooler too and that was more than 1K for the deposit. Good job its still not ready as I am still saving up to afford it.
Still trying to tell myself that the best is cheap compared to an engine rebuild.



me thinks a rad flush is imminent! drop the oil and refill with some fresh stuff!

[Turbo_Steve]

Stuff the rebuild, The best is cheap compared to losing the season, dude :)

[amsoil]

At getting on for £3,000 for an oil cooler I can assure you I not only coughed and thought twice about it, but also did the maths about how much rebuilding an engine would cost! It was actually a close call but what swung it was that I had to get a cooler anyway (£500 ish from Setrab) but that they now want a minimum order of 10 rads and have a lead in time of 6 months. The last Setrab I got failed (cracked) after 1 1/2 seasons use Marsdon Aerospace ones are the best money can buy and are much more robust; so it will last longer , I hope and will cool appx 37% better for the size, as I am hoping for 25% more power this may be needed.


Stuff the rebuild, The best is cheap compared to losing the season, dude :)

[scottie2hotti]

so i did an oil change 3rd april which hadnt been done in ages as previous owner hadnt been using the car and to start off with the ticking went away with castrol edge 5-30 but it just started coming back during idle for maybe 5mins. I'm thinking due to it having rather old oil in it for a while it might of still had a fair bit of gunk left in after the change maybe i should do another oil change?

[Turbo_Steve]

Dump the oil.
Refill with proper flushing solution.
Dump the flushing solution.
Refill with nice new oil.

Lifter tick shouldn't bother you for at least 2000miles, depending what oil you use.

[Wodjno]

This is th Wodjie way /yes

Some may say it's OTT( or WTF ?? but then Hey ! It's my car i'll do what i like :D :p

Put car front up on ramps or lift front end..

remove filler cap


Start with a can of this.. Normally around £4.50.. http://www.irishautoparts.ie/media/catalog/product/cache/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/s/t/stp19.gif

replace filler cap..

Then start engine and run at around 1500rpm for approx 15 mins.. Every 5 mins i will give it a few high rev blats(4-5000rpm) on the pedal.

Turn off engine..

1......remove filler cap( Helps the flavour flowed out /yes

remove sump plug /yes

Dump out the oil.. (into a tray of some sorts :D) Leave draining for a good 10mins. I give it a few blow jobs at 2-3 min intervals. What i mean is, with a Petrol can nozzle or something similar. Put it over the Oil Filler hole and blow. Make sure you seal around the edge with hand or rag so air pressure inside engine is maintained while blowing to force oil out.. You will be suprised how much comes out /yes

Replace sump plug /yes


2..... Next.. put around 2.5 litres of cheap multigrade oil into the engine.(Cost me £6 for 5 litres, i used to use flushing oil but it's £12 now /Help)

Replace filler cap

Start engine and fast idle, approx 1200rpm for 10-15 mins..

Stop engine..

Remove filler cap.

Remove Sump Plug.

Dump oil as above in 1.. /yes
Repeat Blow Job ..

Please ensure you have enough containers, or a big enough 1 to dump out all of the oil(Approx 10litres..

3... Repeat Step 2 /yes

4.. Remove Oil Filter..

Replace Oil Filter..

Replace Sump Plug..

Add New Oil..

I normally add 4 litres.. Remove car from ramps or jacks onto level grounbd and leave to settle for 10 mins..
Check oil level and top up accordingly /yes

Warning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You will probably have trouble noticing any oil on the dipstick, As the oil will be crystal clear after this method ... So please ensure you look carefully as if you don't you will think the oil is not showing on the dipstick and continue to overfill it /Help

As i said.. This maybe OTT for most.. but it's how i have done my oil changes for many years and will continue to do so /yes

This Method normally takes around an Hour or so.. Sometimes longer as i'm normally off elsewhere doing stuff while the oils dripping out.. But it all just adds up to a cleaner engine :D


Cheers

Wodj


EDIT.. Forgot to add above.. I also give a small click on the ignition, couple of times whilst draining, just to move the internals and dislodge any oil that may be sitting anywhere.. But be careful not to start the car :D Can remove Can and Crank Angle sensor if u wanna make sure the car don't start.. But i don't think it's needed.. This is optional /yes As is all of the Above ..

[Nutter_John]

tis not OTT wodj I have used the same approach many times

[Ghost_2008]

That sounds like a very good and well thought out approach....... I had my oil changed at Eurospec January last year, I have since covered 6,500 miles and changed the oil at approximately 2000 mile intervals.

Now the weather is improving I am going to change the oil and oil filter and I think I will be using the technique you detail above. I am hoping that this will clear any gunk from the sump....... we will see......

[Turbo_Steve]

Wow. I have to confess I get crystal clear just by using the £12 flushing solution, so I guess it's different (vinegar?) strokes for different folks.

Your mileage may vary.

Other brands are available.

I reckon you two just like giving your cars blow jobs. :D :D

[Wodjno]

Wow. I have to confess I get crystal clear just by using the £12 flushing solution, so I guess it's different (vinegar?) strokes for different folks.

Your mileage may vary.

Other brands are available.

I reckon you two just like giving your cars blow jobs. :D :D

I'm just a Finnicky Old Fecker :beerbang:

And as i said.. It may be OTT.. But it's what i does /yes And what i'll continue doing :D

It would be especially a good way of doing your oil change if it's the 1st 1 and the previous oil and changes aren't known.. Especially if it's major Cruddy :beerbang:

[Turbo_Steve]

Yeah, it's all good, dude - wasn't meant as a criticism.

Just out of interest, Wodj, what are you putting in your car? Whilst I like the amsoil for it's ruggedness, it does seem to come with a free can of lifter-tick after a relatively low mileage.

I'm entertaining the idea of changing the lifters for a clean set and trying the Amsoil again, but I can't help thinking that if I am going to be changing it every 3000miles because of lifter tick anyway, there isn't much benefit in spending the extra.

[Wodjno]

Yeah, it's all good, dude - wasn't meant as a criticism.

Just out of interest, Wodj, what are you putting in your car? Whilst I like the amsoil for it's ruggedness, it does seem to come with a free can of lifter-tick after a relatively low mileage.

I'm entertaining the idea of changing the lifters for a clean set and trying the Amsoil again, but I can't help thinking that if I am going to be changing it every 3000miles because of lifter tick anyway, there isn't much benefit in spending the extra.

Not taken as a critism Steve..


Have used Amoil 0-30 for years now.. But as you say the lifter tick appears..
If you thrash the car within an inch of it's life then Amsoil keeps the lifter tick away.. But add in some normal pootling or long journey cruising and it will return.

Reason i came to the conclusion was that the older engine could not keep the oil pressure up with the thin oil..

I am Running Silkoline Pro-S now and the car is as quiet as a quiet thing being quiet.. It was quieter straight away but not totally lifter tick free. But over the course of 2-300 miles the ticking has gone.. Occasionally i get a tiny bit from the back left but nothing worth listening too.. The rear left lasher on all VR4's i have known has been the worsed.. :skull:

Had some good reports on this oil from other VR4 owners and asked Opies recommendation, and this came up.. So thought i'd give it a try.. And i'm well happy with it /yes

Cheers

Wodj

[Turbo_Steve]

Hmm...the same rear left that tends to run a bit hotter? :D (speculation!)

[OnBoost!]

I recently topped up with some magnatec 10w40 as I was getting near low. The result was terrible lifter tick. As such I did a complete change last weekend to Castrol Edge 5w30 and a new filter. No more lifter tick :)


Been a few weeks with Castrol now,and I'm getting real bad lifter tick,should have stuck with the 10w 30.

It's weird how each car responds to oils differently,when it's the same engine.

[wintertidenz]

The lifter tick is bad at cold with Castrol especially near changing intervals... I've been thinking about additives myself.

[OnBoost!]

I've only done about 500km since the change,might have to grab some more Proma mbl8.

[stuey]

Was using Castrol Edge 5-30 for a while and used to get the tick occasionally (even with uprated lifters)
Been using the Silkolene Pro-s for the last couple of changes and far better now..

[Firelife]

i just ordered Valvoline VR1 20W-50 racing oil for my vr4 =) I don´t know if it´s good or bad, i just hope it´s not too thick cold and makes lot of valve ticker noise.

[amsoil]

Why a racing oil? Racing oils generally sacrifice survivability (of the oil ) and longevity for superior ultimate shear strength.
20w-50 is too thick, wont do the engine any harm besides taking longer to warm up and reducing economy, making the engine run hotter will also thin the thick oil somewhat. The turbo however is another matter. The thicker oil will flow more slowly and will therefore be less efficient at removing heat from the turbo. this may actually not only risk the turbo but will shorten the life of the oil which ironically will break down to become thinner putting you to perhaps where you should have been all along but without the 'normal' additives that make the oil last.
Just my 2 p's worth

[dickytim]

my car has done approx 7,000km from it's last oil change (as per old owner) and no ticking.

I will get around to changing it soonish...

Have the oil, flush and filter just need to get the time, I use Castrol Edge 5W-30 and have for years, some cars tick, some just don't, we'll see if mine does.

[Rambaud]

Not taken as a critism Steve..


Have used Amoil 0-30 for years now.. But as you say the lifter tick appears..
If you thrash the car within an inch of it's life then Amsoil keeps the lifter tick away.. But add in some normal pootling or long journey cruising and it will return.

Reason i came to the conclusion was that the older engine could not keep the oil pressure up with the thin oil..

I am Running Silkoline Pro-S now and the car is as quiet as a quiet thing being quiet.. It was quieter straight away but not totally lifter tick free. But over the course of 2-300 miles the ticking has gone.. Occasionally i get a tiny bit from the back left but nothing worth listening too.. The rear left lasher on all VR4's i have known has been the worsed.. :skull:

Had some good reports on this oil from other VR4 owners and asked Opies recommendation, and this came up.. So thought i'd give it a try.. And i'm well happy with it /yes

Cheers

Wodj

My last oil and filter change done was ~ 3 months & 3000 miles ago with Castrol Edge 0W-30.

I printed off your oil change "recipe" and gave it to my local garage last week for an oil & filter change with Silkolene Pro-S (now Titan Pro-S). He was sceptical but intrigued about the blow job aspect. However, even he had to concede how much extra crud came out.

Fortunately, so far, the engine does not suffer from the dreaded lifter tick, and is so quiet and vibration free that it is barely audible even with the door open.

So nice one, Wodj.:thumbsup:

[MarkSanne]

Wodjno's picture-link to the STP Engine Flush isn't working anymore, but for all it matters, the needed stuff is i.e. STP engine flush, current link is http://www.irishautoparts.ie/engine-flush-stp-stp19.html

[Rambaud]

I meant to add that I used Forte engine flush instead of the STP one - it was a bit more expensive at ~ £10, but I have used it several times before.

[Netrover]

I've had lifter tick for a long time, and found using PRO MA MBL8 OIL ADDITIVE solves the problem for about 4 months / 5,000km.

[Subaru ETA]

I've had lifter tick for a long time, and found using PRO MA MBL8 OIL ADDITIVE solves the problem for about 4 months / 5,000km.

Shhh some people around here will rip you a new one for saying you use pro ma! I personally used it in mine with magnatec and had no issues with lifter noise

[Erskine_atom]

Just thought I would add this...

Silkolene Pro S has recently been re-branded as Fuchs Titan Race Pro S

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-60169-silkolene-pro-s-5w-30-ester-synthetic-oil-for-high-performance-engines.aspx

[Fully]

Just thought I would add this...

Silkolene Pro S has recently been re-branded as Fuchs Titan Race Pro S

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-60169-silkolene-pro-s-5w-30-ester-synthetic-oil-for-high-performance-engines.aspx

Most racers, flush the engine every meet or two depending on condition of it.

I use Nulon engine flush. I was using the BMW flush (diesel) as a flush.
Nulon coolant long life stuff (red)
Amsoil 10w-30 or redline 10-30 =)

[elnevio]

Nulon coolant long life stuff (red)

DON'T use the long-life coolant in our engines. The pink OAT coolant is not OE spec, and if there is ANY glycol-based coolant (i.e. green/blue) in the system (i.e. the whole system wasn't completely flushed and dried!) they mix and form a sludge, which will quickly block the radiator and probably cause significant problems, like new engine time! :o

[popin]

So about to do an oil change + engine flush, going to use your recipe Wodjno :)

So many oils being recommended here, don't know which one to use :/

Car has lifter ticking sound in the mornings, once warmed up it goes away but sometimes reappears in the 1.5-2k rev range then goes away.

Castrol Edge 10W-30 ok to use? And can we get STP engine flush in NZ?

[dickytim]

So about to do an oil change + engine flush, going to use your recipe Wodjno :)

So many oils being recommended here, don't know which one to use :/

Car has lifter ticking sound in the mornings, once warmed up it goes away but sometimes reappears in the 1.5-2k rev range then goes away.

Castrol Edge 10W-30 ok to use? And can we get STP engine flush in NZ?

Castrol 5W-30 seems to be popular, good for economy etc. I use STP flush as it is cheap from super cheap. No issues here, just follow the directions.

One problem you will have is you can't see the oil on the dipstick !!!

[popin]

Sweet, any difference between 5w-30 and 10w-30 in regards to lifter tick?

[CANDEE]

Sweet, any difference between 5w-30 and 10w-30 in regards to lifter tick?

Is a bit trial and error Simon, I have Amsoil 0w30 in my car and get mad lifter tick, even when warm(though less so there). I am going to change to Motul Turbolite 4100 10w40, which is what Speedtech use in most of their customer's evo's(unless its a race engine which gets 300v.. :P).

[Ryan]

Castrol 5W-30 seems to be popular

I've used it ever since I've acquired my new VR-4, mostly because it is always on special at either SuperCheap or Repco.

[dickytim]

Sweet, any difference between 5w-30 and 10w-30 in regards to lifter tick?

As said it is trial and error, my last VR4 I think you could have run it on deisil and it wouldn't have ticked, I found 5W-30 worked for both of mine, with my legnum only ticking when over due for a service. I never used 10W-30

[chris g]

Shhh some people around here will rip you a new one for saying you use pro ma! I personally used it in mine with magnatec and had no issues with lifter noise

Good news...

And shout aloud to rejoice in the Antipodes...

Nobody 'ripped a new one' even for mentioning use of an additive...

[elnevio]

Make sure you check the oil level first, and if you're on the maximum, drain a bit out before adding the flush.

[Subaru ETA]

Good news...

And shout aloud to rejoice in the Antipodes...

Nobody 'ripped a new one' even for mentioning use of an additive...

It makes a nice change..... :p

[chris g]

Now don't be rude....

Put that tongue away...

We have to play nicely even if you are tainted by additives...

[Bouncy]

Ill be doing my first oil change this week sometime (just got my Legnum last week)
How much oil do they use? will i need more than 5 liters of oil?
Also do you guys have any preference on oil filter?
And do both repco and supercheap stock castrol edge 5w30 (thats what im looking at getting)

[Subaru ETA]

They take 4.3l. I use either genuine mitsi oil filters or fram

[wintertidenz]

Repco and Super Cheap stock the filters and oil - Super Cheap is usually $5 cheaper on the oil unless there's a special on.

I have also used the Repco/Ryco filters which are good.

[taylor]

As above, always used Mobil1 5w-30 and a fram filter, Not the cheapest of options but only got lifter noise when it was overdue for a change

[dickytim]

Ill be doing my first oil change this week sometime (just got my Legnum last week)
How much oil do they use? will i need more than 5 liters of oil?
Also do you guys have any preference on oil filter?
And do both repco and supercheap stock castrol edge 5w30 (thats what im looking at getting)

Castrol 5-30 is on special at super cheap for around $55 at the moment.

[Bouncy]

Castrol 5-30 is on special at super cheap for around $55 at the moment.

Cool im going to get some oil tomorrow morning so ill check it out.
Also my brother in law suggested I should get Valvoline Duroblend 10w40 what do you guys think of that oil?

[wintertidenz]

It's a synthetic blend - best to go fully synthetic.

[dickytim]

Cool im going to get some oil tomorrow morning so ill check it out.
Also my brother in law suggested I should get Valvoline Duroblend 10w40 what do you guys think of that oil?

It is expensive crap, imho

[Rixarena]

wheres a good place to get cheap oil to flush with? do you have to replace the filter for the flushing too?

Regards Sam

[wintertidenz]

Usually just get any cheap oil to flush it with - last time I used some 20w40 and chucked in a bottle of flushing agent once it was warm. Using a new filter for the flush and replacing that afterwards is a really good idea.

[elnevio]

:iagree:

[BEG4ME]

Me replying to the first post (really can't be a55ed reading all 5 pages right now), I personally used to use Valvoline 10w-40 Durablend(semi-synthetic) but then work changed to Fuchs 10w-30 and as such, this is the oil i use. I have NEVER experienced mitsi tick upto present point (126,000Kms). I perform my own service every 7,500Kms and with every service, i give it Wynns "worn engine treatment" and Wynns "injecta cleaner" (which i believe are both trade only use). I'm also a firm believer of drive it the way you want it to perform, which entails me proper thrashing it almost every day.

[KiwiTT]

Got some Castrol Edge Sport 5w30 for my car service. I see how it goes after that. Lots of Tappet noise at the moment.

[Ryan]

Got some Castrol Edge Sport 5w30 for my car service. I see how it goes after that. Lots of Tappet noise at the moment.

Where'd you get it from Richard? I'm after some myself and am hoping that it is on special somewhere.

[KiwiTT]

"Ripco" in Greenlane - I got the last one they had. :(

[Ryan]

"Ripco" in Greenlane - I got the last one they had. :(

What was the damage?

[KiwiTT]

$68 and that was $30 cheaper than 0-60W

[taylor]

I ran Mobil 1 5w - 30 in the v6, first few changes oil was pretty black coming out but then after that it just about came out the colour it went in. Im anal however and do my changes about 4600kms.

Going to keep running it in the new motor, as its filled from factory in the evo 8

[wintertidenz]

Check Super Cheap Auto - it's about $56 at the moment from memory.

Apparently their Nulon 5w30 is also synthetic and about the same price.

[roryfromnz]

I was using Magnatec for a while, tappet noise is ok but comes back after a 1000km or so.. Since changing to Penrite HPR fully synthetic the car has been awesome and the oil temp is ALOT lower compared to the magnatec. :-)

[Ryan]

I was using Magnatec for a while, tappet noise is ok but comes back after a 1000km or so.. Since changing to Penrite HPR fully synthetic the car has been awesome and the oil temp is ALOT lower compared to the magnatec. :-)

I take it that you have an oil temperature gauge installed?

[peter thomson]

Found a temperature variation with Castrol edge also of up to 10degrees compared to amsoil.

[chris g]

And much of the time we come back to AMSOIL for quality and performance...

[amsoil]

LOL strange that.
And with a club discount!
The new AZO 0w-30 should be in stock and available tomorrow.

[MarkSanne]

Don, AZO?! Tell us please! Nothing about it on your site, so what's this new wonder exactly?

[chris g]

Some details on US site...

[Ryan]

Found a temperature variation with Castrol edge also of up to 10degrees compared to amsoil.

Care to elaborate a bit more please Peter?

[Wodjno]

LOL strange that.
And with a club discount!
The new AZO 0w-30 should be in stock and available tomorrow.

Good news.. Order coming your way soon :thumbup:

Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk

[peter thomson]

Care to elaborate a bit more please Peter?

The amsoil runs cooler compared to edge whether in winter or summer

[Ryan]

The amsoil runs cooler compared to edge whether in winter or summer

:thumbsup:

[amsoil]

The amsoil runs cooler compared to edge whether in winter or summer

If I was a Castrol salesman I would be very disappointed with this, I'm not but am still disappointed. The only way two similar (supposedly) products should have such a difference when the engines are upto temperature is if one allows more friction than the other, cant think of any other, please say if you can cause I cannot.
This is actually huge! means more wear, less power , better MPG, better survivability and longevity. You all have brains, I'll leave it to you to work out which one applies to which oil!
Of course that was the old Amsoil SSO the new AZO is better they tell me!

[jayp]

Well changed my oil for the new AZO yesterday, and wow, the engine is virtually silent, I can't hear it in the car. Just the exhaust, and there was no ticking this morning at minus 8. Highly recommended, even if it does cost a few quid more, will definitely be buying more!

Sent from my HTC Desire S

[Wodjno]

Well changed my oil for the new AZO yesterday, and wow, the engine is virtually silent, I can't hear it in the car. Just the exhaust, and there was no ticking this morning at minus 8. Highly recommended, even if it does cost a few quid more, will definitely be buying more!

Sent from my HTC Desire S

Sounds like you made the right choice mate :thumbup:


Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk

[jayp]

Must admit I didn't expect anything quite as dramatic, I used to have terrible lifter tick at start up when it was a little cold. Will have to wait and see if it improves my mpg like it claims! It's weird but the car almost feels more urgent now as well. Might just be my mind playing tricks on me tho

Sent from my HTC Desire S

[Wodjno]

Must admit I didn't expect anything quite as dramatic, I used to have terrible lifter tick at start up when it was a little cold. Will have to wait and see if it improves my mpg like it claims! It's weird but the car almost feels more urgent now as well. Might just be my mind playing tricks on me tho

Sent from my HTC Desire S

If the oil is less viscous than the oil u used before, then that alone must improve mpg. And when it cleans up everything else inside the engine! Then that should add to it also. :thumbup:

Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk

[roryfromnz]

I take it that you have an oil temperature gauge installed?

Hey Ryan, Yup I have Oil temp and pressure gauges.

[MarkSanne]

Yesterday I came back from a trip to Germany and after a 2000km drive + the previous 10000km's I thought it was a good idea to finally switch the Amsoil for new. Both because of the interval and because 1 lifter stayed ticking for way too long (not talking minutes anymore). I threw in some 'cheap' full synthetic MPM 5W-40 oil (20 euro / 5 liter) and a new 6 euro nippon oil filter. The missus will drive this for a few days and then the Amsoil Engine Flush and Amsoil AZO 0W-30 should have arrived at my doorstep for a good cleanup and get it back Amsoil-ed up again :) The ticking lifter did shut up rather soon after startup with the new oil, but I know it's only a matter of time before the ticking will return. I'm not expecting miracles from the flush + AZO oil, but one can't help to have some hope before changing those darned lifters. It's not the money, it's the whole procedure that I'm not keen on. I'll update my results on here.

[Wodjno]

Anyone know which Amsoil Oil filter i require :D

Cheers

Wodj

[jayp]

It's sdf20 mate

[Wodjno]

It's sdf20 mate

You a Gent /yes

[Kenan]

I am using Castrol Edge 10W-60 since two years and at this time i have no problems and a little bit noise from the tapperts
but only in the firs 20 seconds when i start the Engine when the engineis cold.

this season i install a oiltemperatur gauge then i will see how is the degree of this oil when i drive a time on the german highway.

which degrees shouldnt been the oil ?? 130-140 celsius ????

[MarkSanne]

10w-60?! Who gave you that advice?! Oil tmp around 90-100 degrees C is normal.

[jayp]

Cruising on the autobahn, with a very heavy load in the boot, and the entire family, saw a rock steady temp 87 c that's with the new amsoil AZO.

Sent from my HTC Desire S

[Kenan]

I know some vr4 evo drivers also drive the 10W60


I said with a maximum of 130-140 celsius not the optimal temperature


but i must say,i dont drive in winter i drive from 1. April to end october
that means i hadnt coldstarts under 15celsius out temperature

[amsoil]

10w-60 ? I'll go and beat my head against the wall!
Most Evo, Scooby and certainly their engine builders are nobs who just havent woken up to the fact that oil has advanced just a little since the early 80's.
Given that a real synthetic oil has at least 3 times the shear strength of any mineral oil the need for a thick oil for the protection it gives is out of the window so long as you buy a quality product.
A 60 weight still has it place; A pre war Harley or knuckle head for example. (Cant think of anywhere else at the moment)
Modern V8 engines have a 30 or 20 weight specified now.
Race engines at Daytona use a 20 weight for qualifying and then dump it and use a 30 weight for the race to give that extra margin of protection.
A 60 weight oil will make the car harder to start with additional strain on the starter battery and oil pump; will take longer to get to working temperature and therefore allow more wear in the critical warm up period. Will pump slower (its thicker) and hence take longer to warm up and thin itself give false oil pressure readings (pressure losses due to viscosity if not cavitation) will fail to remove heat from the critical areas of the piston and bearings cause it flows slower I could go on. You know more power better MPG etc.
Bottom line is that if we are talking mineral then yes you get better protection with a heavier oil and if your engine is so tuned to the edge that such a thick oil is needed to stay alive then yes sacrificing all the above may be justified. When reliable real synthetic oil came along all that went out of the window (except in the mind of some mechanics and engine builders) So now that thinner better stronger full synthetic oils are available please use them.

[Kenan]

Do not do this, but it hurts

But a 10W60 oil can absorb more heat than a 0W30
And I'm always warm my car before I give a lot of gas

So in the German forum Evo determined drive 80% 10W60 OIL or 5W50

[chris g]

Why do people ignore the experience and advice on here...?

Particularly from specialists whom we trust...

[amsoil]

Do not do this, but it hurts

But a 10W60 oil can absorb more heat than a 0W30
And I'm always warm my car before I give a lot of gas

So in the German forum Evo determined drive 80% 10W60 OIL or 5W50

Anyone can get it wrong, even Ford did in the 80's when the specified a 10w-30 for the Cossies before they realised that they couldn't enforce a quality or named 10w-30. Even the dealers used cheap bulk oil and the engines blew up! Cost Ford millions and their reputation for many years.
Actually a 10w-60 cannot take more heat than a 0w-30 all things being equal (and they rarely are) The stretching of the 60 weight oil (actually its a 10 weight but I'll get into that in a little bit) which will have to have an amount of Viscosity Improvers (IV's) to achieve this huge spread of 50 will make the oil weaker. It will break down, the VI's are incredibly long molecules that uncoil when hot hence counteracting the oils natural tendency to thin with heat. With this the really 10 weight oil can resist thinning with temperature to the point when at appx 100 degrees it flows like a mono grade mineral oil of 60 weight (that has nothing in it to resist thinning). You have to think about this and in a way its back to front to what many believe to be the case.
Now these long molecules are the oils weakness, they are chopped up by the rings and broken by pressure and temperature. As the quantity of intact VI's is reduced so is the '10weight' oils ability to resist thinning and it no longer stands up, remains in the 60 braket if you like, it gets thinner when hot over time. Basically it breaks down. With this breaking down is a reduction in film strength, which will be more than the 0w-30 but a 0w-30 must be a good synthetic to get such a grade, cant be done cheaply. A 60 can!.
So actually it is totally wrong to say a 10w-60 resists heat better, its much worse; what it would be correct to say is that a 60 weight oil can give better protection and better film strength than thinner oils. This is why performance buffs go for it. BUT..... You must remember that a modern top of the line true synthetic is at least 3 times stronger than any mineral oil. So in reality you are introducing a thicker oil for its additional film strength when a good thin oil will easily cope. Whats worse is that the slow flow of the 60 weight oil will increase warm up wear, will likely cause elevated temperature because it doesn't transfer the heat as well, will cause pumping losses because its simply thicker and whilst it keeps the pressure up the reading may be false the bypass may be permanently open so the oil could be unfiltered (not good) and you could even have distructive cavitation.
So when someone builds a 'hot' engine (sic) rather than jumping onto the thicker oil bandwagon they should sort out a better / new/ larger radiator to sort out the extra heat that the burning of extra fuel requires.
Oh yes thought of other uses for the 60 weight oil, drag cars , where the blower gets fuel past the rings and into the oil , you start of thick to end up with something that when diluted will still do the job. Same with webbered racing cars from Ferraries to Holbays etc. The thicker oil allows the engine to survive when the oil is diluted with fuel. With modern ECUs this is no longer necessary.

[roryfromnz]

Did another oilchange today and had a hard time finding the Penrite i usually use.. got myself the Valvoline 5w40 Full Synth and it seems to be pretty good. Engine is quiet as a mouse.. and its done over 200,000KMS :-D

[roryfromnz]

Another thing, I noticed Partmaster has started stocking an oil brand called Royal? Anyone heard of this or used it before?

[amsoil]

Royal Purple?
Smallish American oil company who did some good oils 10 years or so ago, didn't really move with the times and have just the one outlet left in the UK to my knowledge.

[chris g]

Don

AZO Series does not appear to be on sale in 5ltr containers - will it be sold in 5ltrs soon?

[amsoil]

No it wont, Amsoil cut back the number of lines they offered in 5L a while ago, even cut the ATF which we have since had specially done in large quantity because it sold well like that. Engine oils are another kettle of fish. Car manufacturers and emission legislation continually affects the composition of an oil. To maximise sales and comply with the requirements Amsoil must react. Sometimes the changes are suffiecent to totally change a product such as TRO changing to SSO which has now changed to AZO. So if I was to get a large stock of AZO and it changed I would be stuck with 'obsolete/old' stock. (my reorder level is 1 years supply!) Whilst some people will understand that the stock was good it does make a difference to the sales especially abroad. Given it can take 3 months for me to get stock from the USA I can even receive stock that has been superseded in transit. Not good.
Now I have been brought up on the gallon and then 5L for an oil change so dearly missed the loss of this size, however I have changed my mind a bit recently. I certainly always had a litre or a half litre left in a 5l container sitting on the shelf waiting for topping up. Took up space could be mucky but that was the way I was brought up with cars. Now with the smaller bottles you only need a small bottle sittlng there, could even go in the boot as its small and maybe tougher than the 5L containers being smaller. Could even be a sealed bottle. Much better than the left overs in a 5L. What I do say is that it can be annoying having to undo and use so many small bottles and then chuck them, but then again they are much better to pour from so its a balance really.
To counter act this loss of a 5L container which historically was better value than 5 smaller bottles (actually its not nowadays but people are used to this and so things still have to be priced a bit this way) we sell 6 bottles for the price of 5 thats a considerable saving on top of that in ClubVR4 you get 15% club discount that you can add on top of the offer. Its a genuinely good deal. Such a deal is there to convince you to do things this way in the 1st place, it makes financial sense and it can actually be felt to be a better option, over time that is.

[-=white-zombie=-]

hey don, can you have a look at this 0w30 oil made by penrite, does it look any good?? its around $98 NZ for a 5l pack so its up their with Castrol edge etc... I don't like how penrite market all their oils with the extra 10 weight crap.. anyway what do you think, has anyone else used this oil?
..
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/engineoils-products.php?id_categ=1&id_products=251

[wintertidenz]

I haven't used the 0w30, but the 5w40 is OK... doesn't get as black as quick as the Castrol Edge. I've had more lifter noise when cold though.

My friend was saying that their 10 Tenths 5w30 is also really nice stuff (he used to work for Super Cheap Auto and knew the Penrite rep well).

[amsoil]

As its not possible to make a bad 0w-30 it should be fine. The reason some oil firms muck about with the viscosity within a given bracket is to generally make their product appear better than it really is, ie thicker in thin oils to increase the shear strength and maybe lower the volatility and thinner in 40 weights to allow better fuel economy or to let the oils be classified as increasing power, which when you think of it any oil thats thinner will do. So usually a bit of a con trick or in the case of the thicker than normal 0w-30 making the product a bit cheaper /easier to make. May be oonly by small percentages but over quantity it would be significant.
Having said that its still a 0w-30 at the end of the day so it cannot bad.

[-=white-zombie=-]

cheers don,dan, im due for an oil change now, might give the 0w30 penrite a miss has anyone tried the new Castrol edge 5w30 with titanium fluid strength technology? I can get this for half the price of retail through my work..

[-=white-zombie=-]

just did an oil change today to 5w30 Castrol edge, wow what a difference compared to the 10w40 I had in there, warms up quicker (we're in winter here) and runs soo smooth and quiet now :)