Bugatti Veyron gets its rse kicked!!

[Humpty's Revenge]

Bugatti Veyron Vs Nissan GT-R

See the video http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2010/06/bugatti-veyron-vs-nissan-gt-r-take-2.html

Not sure as the story tells if this is fact or not.

Make your own minds up but the GT-R is pretty hooked up though.

[Davezj]

that GT-R looks like a bit of a NOS acceleration going on. that is one quick car.

[Turbo_Steve]

Laundry Check, please.

[aboo]

that GT-R looks like a bit of a NOS acceleration going on. that is one quick car.
I didnt think NOS last that long?

[Turbo_Steve]

You need to read the big book of NOS...it works JUST like that :D

Unlike the silly films, NOS doesn't give you a "quick boost", if properly setup it should give you a gradual but massively increased wall of torque.

[aboo]

You need to read the big book of NOS...it works JUST like that :D

Unlike the silly films, NOS doesn't give you a "quick boost", if properly setup it should give you a gradual but massively increased wall of torque.
I need NOS then ;)

[SGHOM]

You need to read the big book of NOS...it works JUST like that :D

Unlike the silly films, NOS doesn't give you a "quick boost", if properly setup it should give you a gradual but massively increased wall of torque.

absolute borrox !! :5shots:

[elnevio]

absolute borrox !! :5shots:
So, what exactly DID toast your old engine? /Hyper

[SGHOM]

I can't see the vid, only the posts.
But nos will not give you progresive power.

[Nutter_John]

Yes it will Derek , if you use a proper controller you are able to flow the nos in any way you want upto the max flow of the NOS injectors

[AlanDITD]

Yo D how many stock intake welds did you blow from not double clutchin'

[SGHOM]

No it won't . Your sort of half right, but bear in mind you are talking to a nos expert here !! :whistle:

[elnevio]

....

[Davezj]

if that bugatti was on full throttle, that GT-R must have been flying.

top gear did the bugatti verses mclaren F1 through dubi and once up to speed the bugatti just had the legs over the mclaren F1.

i just can't imagin what speed or how fast this GT-R accelerating

[Nutter_John]

No it won't . Your sort of half right, but bear in mind you are talking to a nos expert here !! :whistle:

Hmmm so what type of system did you have , Wet ,Dry , progressive , wired into a fully mapped ecu or just a sinlge injector shoving in extra fuel and a nos ?

[Davezj]

worm, can, pent up NOS rage!

i only said it looked like the GT-R was packing NOS, what have i done! LOL.

[Turbo_Steve]

i just can't imagin what speed or how fast this GT-R accelerating
Ohh I can....but it makes me have unclean thoughts!



if properly setup it should give you a gradual but massively increased wall of torque.

The key these is "properly setup", dude.
I've fitted 10 ZEX kits so far, all direct port, all dual, triple or quad solenoid.
All were technically dry systems, with an additional fuel injector on the inlet tapped to the end of the rail.
All of them used an ECU controlled solenoid driver by Zex.

Upon arming the system, the ECU would introduce NOS and Fuel in a balanced fashion. To prevent shock-loading, semi-adaptive timing was used, retarding massively at introduction to reduce the torque, and rapidly winding forwards.

Closed loop knock monitoring was also employed on the Skyline.

Not one of them has failed to date that I am aware of, and this was several years ago. The Skyline was a trailer-queen track toy.

The only one that failed was the "150 jet" fitted to a Pulsar on standard internals: he refused point blank to abandon the factory ECU, instead relying on a WetSystem and an HKS FConV IIRC. His NOS came in pretty hard, and halfway through his second gearbox, he threw a rod out of the block, and declared that NOS was an engine killer.

He wouldn't spring for a £2000 standalone ECU, so it cost him an engine.

And despite setting all that up, I am NOT a NOS expert - maybe an enthusiast. I just read the manual very carefully.

The real NOS experts are doing absoloutely staggering things with diesels that amaze me.

[Turbo_Steve]

Hmmm so what type of system did you have , Wet ,Dry , progressive , wired into a fully mapped ecu or just a sinlge injector shoving in extra fuel and a nos ? You forgot Staged, Progressive Staged, and Pre-Staged :D

Oh, and load-sensing on an independant controller.

[SGHOM]

You're all still so wide of the mark, it's untrue
get real guys !

[AlanDITD]

Yo D it doesnt matter if you win by an inch or a mile.....

[giblet]

Ah, the moscow unlim 500, those guys are nutters. In the previous video the gtr managed to keep up with the veyron for a short period of time before it was demolished. Iirc it was a switzer p800 they used then so im guessing the one in this video has a few more toys, possibly nitrous.

Eitherway, I know which car I would rather have out of two. Having seen a few veyrons now, both stationary and being driven "swiftly" it just fails to move me like other supercars do. GTR and pocket the change!

[Turbo_Steve]

You're all still so wide of the mark, it's untrue

Is this humour?

If not, could you please justify calling yourself a "NOS expert" and patronizing the hell out of me? I've fitted 10 kits coupled with decent control systems, of which one (and only one) was a "light up the tyres" setup.

All of the rest gave a smooth and continuous power hike from 4500rpms, because I specifically set them up that way.

If you spend £1800 on a single solenoid direct port system with wet fuelling and a push-switch as a control mechanism, then sure: it'll hit you in the back and (eventually) you'll bend a rod if you're running enough NOS. Just dumping NOS and fuel into the combustion process without changing the timing or having any kind of fuel monitoring will give you massive bang-for-your buck. But something won't last, same as fitting a huge turbo and mapping it too agressively.

[orionn2o]

Steve is right, control is the key. Pulsing the solenoids means that you can progressively control the system from 0% gas through to 100% (which is fixed by the jet size).

I fitted nitrous in the past to my own car (not the VR4) and it flew! I did design a controller which was planned for the VR4. But then started a new position in my company which restricted my time severely to the project.

If you get the right controller it can be hooked in with a MAP2, standalone ECU or the standard ECU and can support many functions including anti lag on larger turbo cars, an extra boost at higher rpms or infact any amount of gas in any gear across the rev range.

As Steve says, if setup correctly, nitrous is no more of a killer than running too much boost and not enough fuel.

[enigma]

hahahahahahahahaha

PMSL

lol

Derek, him speak the truth

From first hand experience we can both tell you that!

It is true you can feed the nitrous in a controlled manner, but it is also very true that it will still give you a huge rush.

Remind me about the 3 fastest VR4s of all time???

:smash:

[SGHOM]

TY Dave..... :iagree:

Don't talk the talk.... Walk the walk .

& I was not patronising Steve, sorry if it sounded like that :sweethear

[Wodjno]

Oh Oh... /help

The Lone Ranger and Tonto are back on the range :D

Hi Dave /Welcome

[AlanDITD]

the nitrous queens have landed...

[WildCards]

Nitrous is cheating

[enigma]

Nitrous is cheating

A largely irrelevant and inaccurate addition to the conversation!

While progressive control is a good idea, and in pactice can be used to good effect if it isn't used to give a simlar 'push' to a simple hit then it isn't being used properly! (depending on the application)

Consider an engine at 6000rpm......that is 100 revolutions per socond. Now consider a nitrous solenoid pulsing at a PWM frequency of 25Hz with a 50% duty cycle. Is the engine under more or less stress due to being fed x amount of nitrous for 2 revolutions and then 0 nitrous for 2 revolutions than being fed with x amount of nitrous constantly? There is only 1 system in the world that combats this issue, and it is not yet widely available. Can you imagine a turbo that gave you 1bar/0bar at a frequency of 25hz?! Awesome :smash:

Controllers are good to protect stupid users, and to overcome traction issues. Traction however is not something I experienced issues with in the VR4s.

I am currently enjoying 75bhp of nitrous on my 115bhp 1.6 MX5 as a fixed hit, I am my own controller and know when I should and more importantly should not use it. At some point I expect to break it, but that will not be related to the method of introduction it will be to do with the amount.

Contrary to popular belief Nitrous was not the demise of my VR4s engine (x2) and if you can be bothered to search I belive there is a thread that explains.

[AlanDITD]

I would love to fit NOS to a car at some point, never expericance it and i guess it has to be done.

Id still far rather build a 600hp monster then add a 150 shot. than add a 100 shot to somthing standard though.

[enigma]

Incidentally Richs (zentac) FTO would give a Veyron a shock in the 1/4 mile. Standard Veyron 10.8 seconds in ideal conditions, FTO has done 11.0 WITHOUT nitrous.

[WildCards]

A largely irrelevant and inaccurate addition to the conversation!

I know, I just wanted to stir the pot.

Are you still big, big Dave? I can't imagine you in an MX-5 /Camera

[Wodjno]

I know, I just wanted to stir the pot.

Are you still big, big Dave? I can't imagine you in an MX-5 /Camera

It's a Single Seater /woot

[WildCards]

It's a Single Seater /woot


Standard seats out, centrally mounted leather recliner in, it's like a McF1 innit!


:skull:

[Wodjno]

Standard seats out, centrally mounted leather recliner in, it's like a McF1 innit!


:skull:

That was my thoughs /yes

[Kieran]

I'd like to see a GT-R smack a Veyron down with no NOS [cheating :p /STP] involved... That would be a sight to see!

Be interesting too to see how long that transmission would cope with the extra shove from a fully ninja-ed up engine... It's a bit of an unknown at the moment isn't it?

[giblet]

Theres been a fair bit of aftermarket work going on to beef up the transmisison. Iirc southside performance are in the process of building stronger transmission casings and theres a front mounted transmission cooler kit made by them which also has an extended oil pan

[crazyken76]

wow my favourite car beats the fastest car cool :)

[enigma]

I know, I just wanted to stir the pot.

Are you still big, big Dave? I can't imagine you in an MX-5 /Camera

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs519.snc3/27255_10150151861305150_606855149_11811988_2475589 _n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs631.snc3/31686_10150193194330150_606855149_12927263_6162874 _n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs541.ash1/31686_10150193730675150_606855149_12940821_7786453 _n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs499.snc3/27255_10150151719865150_606855149_11807241_4733360 _n.jpg

[Wodjno]

Bet thats slow Dave /yes

Looks like it's carrying a bit to much weight :D

[Turbo_Steve]

Absoloutely ADORING the MX5 - That must be super-fun!


Consider an engine at 6000rpm......that is 100 revolutions per socond. Now consider a nitrous solenoid pulsing at a PWM frequency of 25Hz with a 50% duty cycle. Is the engine under more or less stress due to being fed x amount of nitrous for 2 revolutions and then 0 nitrous for 2 revolutions than being fed with x amount of nitrous constantly? There is only 1 system in the world that combats this issue, and it is not yet widely available. Can you imagine a turbo that gave you 1bar/0bar at a frequency of 25hz?! Awesome


Just to be clear on my original point - if rather than using a controller you let a standalone ECU handle the whole affair, it actually winds the timing back as it starts injecting. This massively smooths the transition, and protects the rods and driveline.

Using it on an EJ20 was extremely interesting, as they eat gearboxes for breakfast, so a Motec M800 was used to drive the Zex controller. When NOS was engaged, a NOS ignition map was used with heavily retarded timing in the midrange, effectively making the NOS work hard, but keeping the torque figure down. As it moved up the RPM range, the timing would crank forward, so that by 5000rpms or so everything was working hard.

Controllers are great but ECUs are better.

What this meant was that rather than the car feeling like it had been hit up the arse with an arctic (Which is what an on/off wet system does...I've been in a car with one fitted) it delivers a constant increase in torque....yes you get a shove, but it's far more like a second turbo coming in and building and building and building...........

The only drawback is it's a waste of NOS, which is silly. But then going that fast isn't about common sense.

I maintain that a properly setup system (which I count as 9 of my 10) will feature a fully integrated ECU controlling everything. This allows higher eventual cylinder pressures without pointless shock loading. It's got little to do with how you control the NOS, and everything to do with how you control the engine.

[AlanDITD]

Incidentally Richs (zentac) FTO would give a Veyron a shock in the 1/4 mile. Standard Veyron 10.8 seconds in ideal conditions, FTO has done 11.0 WITHOUT nitrous.

on drag tyres! thats not the same

[enigma]

on drag tyres! thats not the same

No, but it is also front wheel drive!

[enigma]

Absoloutely ADORING the MX5 - That must be super-fun!




Just to be clear on my original point - if rather than using a controller you let a standalone ECU handle the whole affair, it actually winds the timing back as it starts injecting. This massively smooths the transition, and protects the rods and driveline.

Using it on an EJ20 was extremely interesting, as they eat gearboxes for breakfast, so a Motec M800 was used to drive the Zex controller. When NOS was engaged, a NOS ignition map was used with heavily retarded timing in the midrange, effectively making the NOS work hard, but keeping the torque figure down. As it moved up the RPM range, the timing would crank forward, so that by 5000rpms or so everything was working hard.

Controllers are great but ECUs are better.

What this meant was that rather than the car feeling like it had been hit up the arse with an arctic (Which is what an on/off wet system does...I've been in a car with one fitted) it delivers a constant increase in torque....yes you get a shove, but it's far more like a second turbo coming in and building and building and building...........

The only drawback is it's a waste of NOS, which is silly. But then going that fast isn't about common sense.

I maintain that a properly setup system (which I count as 9 of my 10) will feature a fully integrated ECU controlling everything. This allows higher eventual cylinder pressures without pointless shock loading. It's got little to do with how you control the NOS, and everything to do with how you control the engine.

So you do not control the nitrous?????????

[AlanDITD]

No, but it is also front wheel drive!


Andy Nicols tigra road tyres 10.5 1/4 mile.

The FTO is a beast i agree but i know slower cars on the 1/4 mile that would slay it on the road. What times and terms does it run on road legals?

[ianturbo]

How did the bugatti manage to close his window at that speed ,mine wont close at 50 !!!/wall /wall /wall
ian

[SGHOM]

All interesting comments. But you're still missing the basic, fundamental of it all! :flamed:

[Turbo_Steve]

So you do not control the nitrous?????????

Motec M800 was used to drive the Zex controller


ECU controls one in relation to the other.

[Turbo_Steve]

How did the bugatti manage to close his window at that speed ,mine wont close at 50

Well, I guess they had to spend that £1m somewhere.

[zentac]

Andy Nicols tigra road tyres 10.5 1/4 mile.

The FTO is a beast i agree but i know slower cars on the 1/4 mile that would slay it on the road. What times and terms does it run on road legals?

Andy Nicols doesnt have a Tigra

speccy has the tigra
andy nichols has the rover.

and the FTO hasn't run on road tyres for years, last time it did it was 400bhp atw and high 11's its now 550 atw and I'm in the middle of adding a direct port nos setup.

[maori_by_nature]

what makes me think is that the bugatti has air breaks as standard how big are the GT-Rs breaks to stop it at that speed???

[maori_by_nature]

Just saw the 1st of the videos they posted check the flames coming out the back of the GT-R at 2.44

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2010/05/video-730hp-nissan-gt-rs-are-no-match.html

[AlanDITD]

Andy Nicols doesnt have a Tigra

speccy has the tigra
andy nichols has the rover.

and the FTO hasn't run on road tyres for years, last time it did it was 400bhp atw and high 11's its now 550 atw and I'm in the middle of adding a direct port nos setup.

doh wrong person i meant specky!!

Run it road legal Zentac :) If it was hitting high 11's and it will have another what 300hp it would be cool to see what times it puts down. When you ran high 11 on legals what terminals was it running?

[zentac]

dont know I will have to dig out the old timing slips.... anyway Ive decided to retire this engine and build a new more powerfull one ready for next season.

[Wodjno]

dont know I will have to dig out the old timing slips.... anyway Ive decided to retire this engine and build a new more powerfull one ready for next season.

I think from memory it was 125mph :huh:

[enigma]

I think from memory it was 125mph :huh:


I thought it was 131mph, as this was the motivation to try the MLR 30-130 challenge a few years ago.

[AlanDITD]

You going with another VR4 lump again then rich?

[enigma]

Bet thats slow Dave /yes

Looks like it's carrying a bit to much weight :D

Not as fast as the VR4, but nippier than it should be.

143.9kg have been removed from the standard 970kg.

standard power is 115bhp so the standard power to weight ratio is 118bhp/ton

With weight reduction that increases to 139bhp/ton

And with the current 70bhp of nitrous increases again to 224bhp/ton

Yet to try it in true anger, but a mid 6 second 60mph dash is anticipated due to traction issues. Have done a Gtech 1/4 in the wet at 15.5 with a terminal of 92mph......

[zentac]

You going with another VR4 lump again then rich?

No, I think we have found the limit of the VR4 lump, when we spun the main bearings and warped the crank last year with 650bhp

It time to aim around the 900 mark with a new engine.

[zentac]

I thought it was 131mph, as this was the motivation to try the MLR 30-130 challenge a few years ago.

124 rings a bell... I never made 130 (does now), the car just wouldnt make it even at 30-130

[AlanDITD]

No, I think we have found the limit of the VR4 lump, when we spun the main bearings and warped the crank last year with 650bhp

It time to aim around the 900 mark with a new engine.

Look forward to the updates matey