Running problem

[Barney]

Hi,

Just managed to get back home after the engine started running roughly, by keeping it in low gear with the revs up. Hopefully somebody will know the magic spell to make it well again.

Symptoms:
1. Has had occasional cutting out on idle for sometime. Only happened at Junctions/stops.
2. Has happened more frequent in past couple of days, but now when coasting downhill in traffic. (i.e. Off Throttle)
3. Drove about 3 miles tonight without probs (but noticed a small hesitation when first started)
4. Parked up for 4 hours
5. Came to leave, car started on second attempt (unusual - normally 1st time, every time)
6. Came to a junction and engine just died as I came to pull away.
7. Tried restarting - OK - then 6. reoccurred
8. Tried revving in N, but the engine always stopped as the revs approached 2000.
9. With experiment I managed to keep engine ticking over above 3500 if I gunned it through the 2000 region.
10. To get home dropped into D at 3500, and moved straight into Tip mode keeping it in 1,2, 3 for the 2 miles back home. All the time the engine revs were unsteady, coughing and spluttering.
11. Stalled at entrance to my lane which is necessarily slow speed due to configuration of road.
12. Repeat of 8 above - but occured at 1600 revs
13. Left car to wake wife to get her to steer through narrows as I pushed.
14. Returned and found that I couldn't push car alone so tried once again at only 1500 revs in 1st.
15. Got home, kicked tyre/had a glass of medicinal Malt.

OK so what is differing from recent past:

Tried Tesco 99 fuel for first time. Fuel is new at local Tesco. (Contamination??)
Cutting out might coincide with this top up - or just plain coincidence - can't recall first occurance of the cutting out to be 100% definate.
As stated theres a long history of occasional cutting out on idle and was booked in for work on Friday to clean or change ICV (and other bits n pieces.)

When I parked up the revving (in N and no load) seemed to be OK, but this was after 2300hrs and didn't want to wake the neighbours. (They are all pensioners who kindly regularly check on my wifes welfare when I'm at sea, i.e. important to stay on good terms.)

It seems to me to be fueling at fault.

Help needed to point me as to where the problem might be and how to fix it.

Thanx

[1timeVR4]

Ive been using momentum aswell, my leggie doesn't like it much, Id start with the basics, fuel supply, spark and air...

[peter thomson]

Check all the hoses for splits or loose connections

[elnevio]

Never had any probs with Tesco 99.

Sounds like an air leak somewhere to me? Is the inlet elbow seated properly? This will have to come off anyway to check/replace the idle stepper motor.

[mike74]

ive never had any problems with tesco's fuel either but it might be some rubbish in the tank if its just been installed. have you done a fault code check yet, it might be the MAF thats playing up

[Barney]

Thanks for the input.
The reason for questioning the fuel source was a mate who stopped to help me knew of previous contanination problems (in the past) at the same Tesco. Was shut for a while.

Will pull the codes this morning.

Thanks again

[Wodjno]

I think it's an air leak somewhere, or maybe even you BOV is mullered as it would give the progressive issues u have discribed if it was slowly failing... Check around the BOV area for splits etc and the Vac hose also.. Easy to check the piston is moving freely in the BOV(10mins)
Hope the Fault codes don't bring up something more sinister :(

[oldgit9]

have you checked the fuel filter? there might me a bit of gunk in there picked up from the tank.

[swinks]

Air leak IMO. Loosen clamp and pipe came off.

[Barney]

Thanks for help suggestions.

Error codes - just the two /Poms

AYC 12 voltage power supply (supply valve) system (short or break)
suggested on Oz VR4 as possibly due to flat battery (certainly was flat when I came home)

and

Engine 24 Speed Sensor System
that is common to cars with speedo conversion done at import

Have had a poke around the hoses and can find nothing amiss but will try harder.

Thought about a fuel blockage problem but doesn't seem to explain why it ran at higher revs, (albeit poorly) or why it cut out at the same revs each time.

Just to rub salt in wound it seems OK this morning /duh

BOV keeping suggestion in mind - trying to eliminate others (easier ones) first

SOMETHING WILL BE WRONG its just finding the 'king thing.

[mike74]

it could be worthwhile pulling a spark plug out to see what colour it is before going in too deep. if its pretty dark n sooty then its likely to be an air leak somewhere. whiteish colour could indicate not enough fuel going in which might be a dodgy fuel pump or leak/blockage in fuel system. i had a similar issue with one of my old mini's; turned out to be a tiny hole in a fuel pipe that drew air in while running. we only figured it out once the exhaust was glowing bright orange after holding it a 2k rpm for a few seconds!

[Barney]

Have tried the method on OzVR4 for a check of the ICV.


Indications are that there is no problem with the ICV - revs increase with A/C and with full lock (load increaments on engine).

However during these tests I noticed that the boost gauge was in vacuum at all times (up to 6000). Vacuum increased with revs. (Analogue gauge & on boost controller) I haven't noticed before if this is normal but would have thought this is not normal ??? (All the revving done whilst in N sat on drive not on load on the road) This points me to a hose / connection failure somewhere, right?

Cheers
Barney

[Barney]

Going down to club to watch footie soon, so will log in again later

[mike74]

if you rev it in neutral, the gauge should show less vacuum than at idle. somethings not right there :(
are you sure the gauge is plumbed into the correct place on the inlet tract? if its plumbed in before the turbo's, all it'll see is vacuum

[Barney]

Chance of interpretation error here. By more vacuum I mean the vacuum increases (e.g. from -0.4 to -0.6 ---- not actual figures)

[mike74]

yup, thats what i thought you meant :)
its showning a greater vacuum when you rev it...it should show lower (ie closer to showing positive pressure)
thats why i was thinking its connected to the wrong side of the turbo's.
you could always connect a foot/hand pump to the gauge's pipework to see if it measures positive pressure ok. if the needle just twitches or shows vacuum then it could be boogered

[Youssef]

You can also use the same foot pump method to check for boost leaks, with the engine off and you pressurize the system the needle should enter positive pressure and stay there. You could also consider pulling the spark plugs like someone said earlier, just one of the front ones is fine, you can read his post for what to look for as he is spot on with his instructions. What always helps me wrap my mind around these kind of phantom issues is that the car only needs 3 things to run, fuel, air and spark. If you can eliminate the fueling as an issue and spark as an issue you are left with air. But like everyone else that has reply my spidey senses is pointing towards a vacum leak. Whenever the pipe on my T/b decides to blow off the car has trouble idling and most cases if you take your foot off the throttle or put load on the engine it will cut off. This maybe an extreme example but your's sounds like a scaled back version. Have you noticed anythng else weird. Is there any new sounds coming from the engine bay.

[Barney]

Have you noticed anythng else weird. Is there any new sounds coming from the engine bay.

Nothing in particular when close up but when it was idling and warming up for idle valve test I thought I heard a clicking - three/four clicks a second every five seconds or so - Weird or not.

Also should mention that I have been using the car more enthusiastically in recent days - perhaps the potential root cause???

[Youssef]

Not sure about the noise might be lifters you are hearing, if you be driving the car harder the oil could be breaking down and thus causing the lifters to start making some noise. The extra boosting could also cause a hose the was already loose or frayed to finally give up. Have you noticed any smoke out the back. Maybe during idle or someone may have mentioned it seeing you pass by. If the car has a boost leak it will run extra rich and may give some black smoke, especially up top. have you gotten around to checking the recirc valve. It's pretty easy to get to if you have the bottom shield off. It's right up under the passenger side head light, just jack up the car and poke your head underneath.

[Davezj]

Nothing in particular when close up but when it was idling and warming up for idle valve test I thought I heard a clicking - three/four clicks a second every five seconds or so - Weird or not.

Also should mention that I have been using the car more enthusiastically in recent days - perhaps the potential root cause???

sorry barney should have replied earlier.

was it coming from the front left of the car by the battery area.

If so then there is a relay over there that controls (i think) the fuel vapour burn from the fuel tank, via the charcoal canister, but it could be EGR system. that seems to be active some times and quiet at other times giving a nice clicking.
hope it is this as it is normal. no fix required.

[Barney]

Wow just when you think you have things pretty well understood (correction : heard about) then somebody comes along with a snippet that you have never heard of, or even thought of./dunce /dunce /dunce

Fuel vapour burn from the tank is a new one on me! WHat the *&^k is this when its around????

And what does EGR stand for???

In reply to Dave the clicking couldn't be traced to anywhere in particular as it was only audible from a ways off.


The car is presently with Kev at AP Motors. Driving down there I became aware of more turbo spooling noise that was not audible before (or is that because my radio was off:d ). The car only stopped on route twice the second on a nasty 90° junction - downhill which focussed the mind somewhat. No Engine = No PAS + No servo assistance for the brakes, just yank it round as quickly as I could!


sorry barney should have replied earlier.

was it coming from the front left of the car by the battery area.

If so then there is a relay over there that controls (i think) the fuel vapour burn from the fuel tank, via the charcoal canister, but it could be EGR system. that seems to be active some times and quiet at other times giving a nice clicking.
hope it is this as it is normal. no fix required.

[mike74]

there's a cannister in the engine bay thats connected to the vent line of the fuel tank & to the inlet manifold. when the engine's running, the vacuum sucks any fuel vapour through the cannister & into the inlet to be burnt off harmlessly. the japanese are quite big on tree-hugging & think this makes a difference to the environment but all it does after some years is give some more vacuum leaks to sort out! EGR stands for 'exhaust gas recycling' which effectively takes some of the exhaust gasses & runs them through the engine again to burn off any unburnt fuel. it allegedly helps with emissions too.

[bizar___2010]

just a quick thought.. i had simular and ended up bein coils

[Stagman]

Do you know what exactly the problem was, if it was ever cured?