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Wodjno
24-06-2010, 11:15 PM
Well it's been rattling for the last 6 months, but it's been getting gradually worse :sad3:

It started off with the occasional rattle and it sounded very much like a loose exhaust heatshield vibrating when off throttle.. It gradually got louder and louder and now even does it at idle.. But never does it on throttle.

The Vee and PSBarham said that it could be the wastegate vibrating.. Either it could be damaged or loose.

Upon further investigation of removing all the heatshields and the vibration noise still there /Fever

I removed the downpipes as when putting a screwdriver against the bend on the front downpipe it sounded like the noise was right there..
With the downpipes and examined, i could find no issue with them, and they were among the best standard downpipes i had laid my eyes on /yes With no damage anywhere on them :o
But i couldn't here the vibration with them off ?? But then i couldn't here much at all /duh As those who have run the VR4 without downpipes will understand /bananaroc

So i stuck it all back together /yes

Before i go further, i will say i have never been overly impressed with the way the boost builds on this car.. And it doesn't actually hold boost that well either :sad3:
But then i have been used to Auto VR4's in the past and thought that maybe this is the way the Manual VR4 boost charachteristics are ????
Mayb i shoulda asked for comparison against another members Manual VR4 before now /Hmmm
I didn't think it held boost to bad, until i returned from the Eurospec RR day.. My boost dips down quite a bit, but thought i can counteract that with the RPM Offset feature with my Greddy E-01 boost controller /yes
On entering the setting .. I found i had already enabled it and :( So my boost is dropping off and it shouldn't be ..


I did some digging around on the net and found that this problem is found on many makes and models of turbocharged cars(Petrols and Diseasels)
It's an embarassing noise and makes you car soundlike a piece of sheeeeeeeeeeet :oops:


So my question is :huh:

If it definitely is the wastegate thats rattling. What is the possible outcome ?
Is it gonna totally fecked ? Or Will i possibly be able to adjust it with the adjuster on the wastegate actuator ?

Will this be affecting the way my boost builds and holds ? (ie: leaking

I know that it's just riveted on! But should it be solidly riveted on ?? Or is it riveted on, but with a certain amount of looseness for movement ??

I have a couple of spare tubs here (Stueys old Tub's) that i have been using for analysis.. The part that seals the wastegate shut is riveted on the end of a shaft but is free to move slightly.. Is this correct?? Or should it be solid ?

TIA

Wodj

taupodrifta
25-06-2010, 12:27 AM
if it is the wastegate I would say the actuator isd poked and yes that will cause the non consistent boost. Have you got a spare actuator you can put on and see if it is that thats causing the problem???

mike74
25-06-2010, 08:22 AM
my (stock) boost was all over the place too :(
note the only mod the car had was a panel filter.
hope this helps

White Lightning
25-06-2010, 08:24 AM
I found the boost built up quickly in the manual VR4 and certainly no worse than the auto VR4s, I had. In fact, possibly better.

It sounds like adjusting the actuator should be the first thing to try and then perhaps another actuator as drifta suggests.

Is it the front or rear turbo that is rattling?

swinks
25-06-2010, 09:07 AM
Also worth to check dv.
I've found that if spring in my adjustable Forge Hybrid DV is set too hard or too soft, then is rattling as a hell.

bradc
25-06-2010, 09:24 AM
I would think the bov is the easiest thing to check. Just remove it and blank it off completely so you are running with no BOV. See if that makes it any better. If it doesn't then you could look into replacing the wastegate actuators.

Wodjno
25-06-2010, 09:32 AM
It's definitely the Wastegate area.. It's nowhere near the BOV..

It's on the front Tub..

I'll have a go at getting to the adjuster tonight...
I can try 1 of the spare Actuators i have here.. But does anyone know of a place that supply replacements, incase it's totally Fuzzed..


Wodj

Wayne.. The boost on this Manual VR4 is nowhere near as aggressive in building as the Auto i had.. The Auto was Brutal.. :D

pezza
25-06-2010, 09:39 AM
I had that very same rattle on my Blue VR and went through the very same process of removing parts thinking it was heatshield related before we realised it was the actuator assembly front turbo. (which got pregressively worse)

I could the rattle on spin down or lifting off the accelerator. Removing the turbo confirmed was excessive play.

It was as annoying as >^&*%$&% /grr and was embarassing esp when the VR was pretending to be stealthy. ....

I ended up swapping out both tubz when we couldn't eliminate the play :sigh:

Wodjno
25-06-2010, 09:45 AM
I had that very same rattle on my Blue VR and went through the very same process of removing parts thinking it was heatshield related before we realised it was the actuator assembly front turbo. (which got pregressively worse)

I could the rattle on spin down or lifting off the accelerator. Removing the turbo confirmed was excessive play.

It was as annoying as >^&*%$&% /grr and was embarassing esp when the VR was pretending to be stealthy. ....

I ended up swapping out both tubz when we couldn't eliminate the play :sigh:

Ah.. Nice 1 dude..

So the play was in the actuator assembly, not the Tub itself !

pezza
25-06-2010, 09:55 AM
Ah.. Nice 1 dude..

So the play was in the actuator assembly, not the Tub itself !


Aye we concluded that it was. I may still have one of the old units in the garage somewhere. Have you compared the play on yours to the ones off stuey's car sent few weeks back?

Wodjno
25-06-2010, 10:01 AM
Aye we concluded that it was. I may still have one of the old units in the garage somewhere. Have you compared the play on yours to the ones off stuey's car sent few weeks back?

Haven't had mine off yet as using the car.. But will look tonight as i'm off all weekend..

Wodjno
25-06-2010, 11:06 AM
Derek..

Did u find any lack of power/boost issues when yours was rattling ??

pezza
25-06-2010, 11:23 AM
I don't remember any lack in power but it would've been before I had the boost gauge/controller fitted so I couldn't say for sure

Wodjno
25-06-2010, 11:27 AM
I don't remember any lack in power but it would've been before I had the boost gauge/controller fitted so I couldn't say for sure

Ah.. So you was still at Standard boost levels ? Or MBC ?

pezza
25-06-2010, 11:40 AM
At standard boost. it was the annoying noise that prompted me to swap...

Turbo_Steve
25-06-2010, 11:56 AM
If the actuator is no good you should be able to feel movement in the rod: not sure on the VR4 but on the TD04 and TD05 you can just take the circlip off and check for play in the armature (on the turbo) and on the rod and actuator individually. If you have access to a compressor you can also check the actuator function.

I haven't tried, but I'd be very surprised if you need to remove the turbo to change the actuator.

Wodjno
25-06-2010, 12:00 PM
If the actuator is no good you should be able to feel movement in the rod: not sure on the VR4 but on the TD04 and TD05 you can just take the circlip off and check for play in the armature (on the turbo) and on the rod and actuator individually. If you have access to a compressor you can also check the actuator function.

I haven't tried, but I'd be very surprised if you need to remove the turbo to change the actuator.

Cheers Steve

I'm sure i can change the actuator without removing the Turbo /yes

Davezj
25-06-2010, 01:17 PM
I wouldn't count on it glen, the tub is under the front exhaust manifold, if it was the rear tub then yes you can get to it from above. if you do find out how to do it, let us know as i could do with getting acces to mine as well for a mod i am going to try

yes i can confirm it is just a R clip push through a hole in a pin to hold it on.

Yes the disk on the wastgate flap should be able to move. Mine do on bith my spare tubs.

Wodjno
26-06-2010, 12:59 PM
I wouldn't count on it glen, the tub is under the front exhaust manifold, if it was the rear tub then yes you can get to it from above. if you do find out how to do it, let us know as i could do with getting acces to mine as well for a mod i am going to try

yes i can confirm it is just a R clip push through a hole in a pin to hold it on.

Yes the disk on the wastgate flap should be able to move. Mine do on bith my spare tubs.

I can confirm that it is possible to remove the Actuator on the front turbo, without removing the front Tub /yes

Skill needed "0"

Patience needed :uhoh2: :stars:


And my rattle is now hardly noticeable /Poms But not completely gone..

It was hard deciding how much to adjust it.. I Plumped for 2 1/2 turns of the adjuster..

On the performance side ? The boost builds stronger low down and builds more peak boost at the same boost setting.. To the extent that on High Boost setting my Clutch Slips :(

But i have an issue of unstable boost above 5000rpm ???
Is this an effect of the alteration of the wastegate actutor :shocked:

Or is my Boost Solenoid breaking down ?

PaddyB
26-06-2010, 01:40 PM
What are you using to get the graphs - I want one ...

Wodjno
26-06-2010, 01:42 PM
What are you using to get the graphs - I want one ...

Lol.. Greddy Profec E-01 Boost Controller..

I think someone had 1 for sale on here ??

Turbo_Steve
26-06-2010, 04:32 PM
Doesn't the profec have to relearn your wastegate behaviour?

Bear in mind you may now have a discrepancy between the two wastegates, so your turbos may be battling each other a bit - especially at high flow.

Wodjno
26-06-2010, 07:24 PM
/Hmmm

Wouldn't have thought so Steve !

The discrepancy theory seems a more logical theory ?

Davezj
26-06-2010, 08:15 PM
I can confirm that it is possible to remove the Actuator on the front turbo, without removing the front Tub /yes

Skill needed "0"

Patience needed :uhoh2: :stars:


can you tell me how.

how did you undo the adjuster arm, all mine are rusted up good and proper.
well you would expect that, as it is so close to exhaust manifold and it must get condensation on it when everything is cooled down then get really hot it is going to rust.

glen do you have shiny new actuators/turbo's, or is you car just newer.

Wodjno
26-06-2010, 08:26 PM
Ok.. I did take some pics while it was apart and when i was putting it back together.. I'll try and arrange it in some sort of order, like a how to ..
Not great at that sort of stuff, and all pics taken with my Mob..


Wodj

Davezj
26-06-2010, 08:28 PM
cheers glen that would be really helpfull.

Turbo_Steve
26-06-2010, 08:58 PM
Some of the Greddy EBCs do learning stuff, Wodj - if you say yours doesn't then I believe you - I haven't owned one :(

Wodjno
26-06-2010, 09:13 PM
Car is up on a standard set of ramps..

Bonnet Up and secured :D

uploaded/450/1277583290.jpg

Firstly remove snorkel.. Just 2 clips on the front cross member. Or in my case 2 screws /yes

uploaded/450/1277580489.jpg

Next the airbox..

2 x 12mm screws ... Marked in Red 1 vertically below the other..

uploaded/450/1277581290.jpg


Next is the Flexi pipe from the intake elbow, down past where the airbox was.. Again just 2 x screws or 10mm sockets.(Mine is a hardpipe but the same removal)

uploaded/450/1277581935.jpg

Next the MAF.. Just a screwdriver needed or a 10mm socket to release the clamp and also remove the MAF plug..

uploaded/450/1277581650.jpg

Should look like this now /Hmmm

As Tomasz states below.. If it's an Auto then the Autobox Filter will need removing before the next step /yes

Next is the hard black weird shape pipe (in 1st pic pelow)
2 x screws for the clamps ringed in red ..And an arrow where there is a bolt accessible from below the waterpipe in the Pic.. in 2nd Pic ... The bottom part fits onto the front tub. It is easier to remove this downwards /yes

uploaded/450/1277583965.jpg

uploaded/450/1277584048.jpg

Please do not post until i have finished posting how to :smash:

Wodjno
26-06-2010, 09:33 PM
Ok.. It should now look like this ..

uploaded/450/1277584374.jpg

And a Pic of inside my Front Tub :D
Arrowed are 2 of the bolts holding on the front actuator /yes

uploaded/450/1277585036.jpg

Access to these to Bolts are from under the car with a 12mm socket on long extension :drummer:

uploaded/450/1277585555.jpg

uploaded/450/1277585555.jpg

Theres a 3rd nut.... Arrowed in red in the next pix which is 10mm .. And also a spring clamp that holds on the Vac pipe Arrowed in White /yes


uploaded/450/1277586227.jpg


Well thats it /Hmmm /yes



Well apart from the Clip holding on the rod that connects to the Wastegate :censored:

Sorry i didn't take any Pics of this.. :(

Access is from underneath the car..I used a long flat screwdriver to hook in the loop of the clip.. And tapped the screwdriver with a hammer and popped it out.. Not as easy as it sounded and it did take me 5 or 10 mins to get it out..
Putting it back in i used a pait of long reach, long nosed plers and pushed it back in the hole from underneath..
Once the pins out u can use the screwdriver to lever the rod off the pin.. The actuator is then easy to remove from where all th e pipework was removed..

Hope this helps /yes
And it you need anymore info ? Just Ask /yes

Refitting is more or less reversal of removal :D

swinks
26-06-2010, 09:43 PM
With auto box, you have to remove filter prior to plastic turbo pipe :-ished:

Wodjno
26-06-2010, 09:47 PM
Please do not post until i have finished posting how to :smash:

/JawDroppi /hammer

Thanx for that Tomasz.. I'll edit that into the post :beerchug:

....Tomasz Wodj

:idea2: :flamed:

Wodjno
26-06-2010, 10:26 PM
Finished /yes

Davezj
27-06-2010, 10:15 PM
Excvellent info/write up glenn, that make it much easier for to do later on,, your a Star!

Wodjno
30-06-2010, 12:07 AM
Some of the Greddy EBCs do learning stuff, Wodj - if you say yours doesn't then I believe you - I haven't owned one :(

Only just spotted this post.. Sry Steve, i wasn't ignoring u :p

And i believe u if u say they do /yes

Mrs Wodj driving VR around all week. So i will see if it's learn't anything by the weekend ?

Wodj

Also going boost leak hunting /yes
Cos i'm sure i shoulda made 270bhp at the RR day /Hmmm

jjayokocha
15-02-2012, 02:39 PM
For anyone doing this, i was able to get my left hand round the back of the manifold on the left hand side and open the pin to allow the arm to come off the wastegate, only took me less then a minute.