Swap 97 Tiptronic ECU with 97 Manual ECU

[Kyoshu]

Hello,

a guy I know is parting out his wrecked 97 Manual VR-4 Legnum and he has basically given me the ECU. Considering swapping it to for the 20HP extra gain. Read through some of the old posts and just wanted to know if there was anything I major need to look out for and if it will affect for the AYC works, etc.

Any info would be great.

Thanks,

Oscar

[valmes]

You won't get those 20 hp from ECU swap... There is no difference between ECU off the manual version or the one from tiptronic...

The only difference is on manual VR-4 wastgate actuator spring is stronger (exhaust gases start bypassing the turbine wheel at 0,58 - 0,59). On tiptronic version spring tension is set to 0,51-0,52.

[Nick Mann]

Now that is VERY interesting info. No-one has mentioned that before!

We have always assumed it was an ECU thing!

[zentac]

Could be true... My standard boost last night was 0.52 bar and its a 1996 Auto engine.

[Spirit]

That is interesting, but still begs the question WHY ? Especially considering they changed this on the facelift tiptronics to 280ps standard too. Would be great to get a definative final answer to this long standing question :rolleyes5

[Polabear]

That is interesting, but still begs the question WHY ? Especially considering they changed this on the facelift tiptronics to 280ps standard too. Would be great to get a definative final answer to this long standing question :rolleyes5


This is very interesting to me, especially as the best figures I can manage at present are 265 on my Apexi RSM, and mine is a 98 manual, using the same boost figures as Pete, but running a 35% gain, any more gain is too much too quick with not enough at the top end. :rolleyes5

[-LegnumVR4-]

Pop it in, if it makes a difference then u wont feel the flat spot which is felt higher up in the rpms. Thats the major difference when i swapped my ecu over, more top end.

My ecu was from the 2001 tip model but i get the feeling that the later 2001 model ecu (auto) is the same as the manuals ecu, they just decided to change them at a later date. Can't comfirm that but doing this test would be interesting.

Rhys

[KiwiTT]

The only difference is on manual VR-4 wastgate actuator spring is stronger (exhaust gases start bypassing the turbine wheel at 0,58 - 0,59). On tiptronic version spring tension is set to 0,51-0,52.

Can this be replaced/upgraded without affecting the "tiptronic" or any other component.

[Kyoshu]

Sweet, will try this weekend and see if there is a difference on the top end.

[calum]

Mine is a 97 tiptronic, standard, and runs just over 0.6bar.

So i don't think the info above is correct.

This graph was on std unleaded (95 ron).

http://www.aoqo52.dsl.pipex.com/vr4_star_performance_rr_2nd_feb_03.jpg

the grey/ purple line is boost pressure.

Calum

[valmes]

I have swaped the engine...

Mine (original engine on a manual VR-4) passed away about a month ago... I bought the same engine but from tiptronic version (97).

The only difference in engine itself are the wastegate actuator springs... (well some other things too, but they seem to be there just to cope with an auto transmition and don't affect power output of the engine).

Don't you think it is more likely that Mitsubishi, eased off on tiptronic by just changing the string tension (which is a cheap and bullet proof solution for less max power)? Seems to be reasonable to me. Why go and screw the ECU - changing the fuel maps, ignition timing, boost and other stuff just to get 20HP less???

*** I am not a Mitsu official, so take this information at your own risk :)

"Thats the major difference when i swapped my ecu over, more top end."

I felt the major difference on tiptronic/manual when we switched to better spark plugs (try 0,8mm instead of stock gap of 1,1mm). Now the car revs easily to 7000 with peak power sometime at as high as 6999 rpm (as registered by RSM).

"Can this be replaced/upgraded without affecting the "tiptronic" or any other component."

If you already have a boost controller - you are all set. Just dial in a higher boost...

"This is very interesting to me, especially as the best figures I can manage at present are 265 on my Apexi RSM, and mine is a 98 manual, using the same boost figures as Pete, but running a 35% gain, any more gain is too much too quick with not enough at the top end."

Is RSM set-up right? Have you cheked your turbines? Spark plugs? Fuel pump(That one is a weak point and if you are going over 300 HP try to upgrade it as soon as possible... or at least re-wire it to get more voltage- http://www.stealth316.com/2-fuelpump-rewire.htm)? Gaskets? Injectors? Spurk plug wires? Filters?
Anything could affect max power, but from my expirience there were two noticable things:
1) my pump have died (it worked... but no longer supplied needed amount of fuel) and I couldnt figure out what was wrong with my car...
2) compressor wheels were so worn out that finaly my turbines overheated and died trying to get even stock figures... (due to poor quality of my home made CAI and dirty HKS filter. Now I try to keep it clean at all times).

Hope this info could be helpful to someone... :)

[zentac]

Pop it in, if it makes a difference then u wont feel the flat spot which is felt higher up in the rpms


****, I thought it was just mine that had that flat spot...Ive been trying to get rid of it for ages. Looks like I just need to get a 1997+ or manual ECU.

Wow you learn something new every day :)

[-LegnumVR4-]

Has to be an auto 98+ Face lift model if u want the newer ECU's with 280bhp.

I've included the link which i've gotten the info from reguarding ecu's and Type -S&V specs, it does sound like the earlier manuals didn't have the full 280bhp? :headsc:

http://media.mitsubishi-motors.com/pressrelease/e/products/detail646.html

[valmes]

Has to be an auto 98+ Face lift model if u want the newer ECU's with 280bhp.

I've included the link which i've gotten the info from reguarding ecu's and Type -S&V specs, it does sound like the earlier manuals didn't have the full 280bhp? :headsc:

http://media.mitsubishi-motors.com/pressrelease/e/products/detail646.html

Can't see your point...

"All GALANT/LEGNUM VR-4 models, automatic transmission versions included, now pump out 280 hp. The VR-4 type-S is joined by the new type-V trim level, which is priced very attractively."

That just states that from 98 on, not only manual models, but ALL including automatic transmission versions, now pump out 280 hp... ;)

[ako]

One thing to bear in mind is mitsi has a great habit of throwing in all kinds of different ECU's through the same model car. I know for my shape VR4 there is at LEAST 4 different kinds, I've tried 2 different ones in my car (each for cars with different turbos) and it was noticably different to drive, the GT hatch ecu I have in my car now also has a higher rev limit. I've also seen a factory ECU with different rev cuts in different gears in an E84 as well. Food for thought.

BUT - all the E84 manuals were rated at 240hp. Autos were rated at 200, which I assume is achieved by the different turbos and lower boost they run as opposed to ECU changes. The 6G VR4 is the same, its detuned by turbo changes, rest of the engine is identical.

[Ryan]

I've already done this here:

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24469&highlight=1996+ECU

Swapping the ECU does make a noticeable difference

[Sydo]

Swapping the ECU does make a noticeable difference

I agree!

[thfelipeth]

so changing the ecu from a manual to a tiptronic doesn't effect anything, right? but changing the pre-facelift auto ecu to a facelift auto ecu gains you a lil power? thanks

[Ryan]

so changing the ecu from a manual to a tiptronic doesn't effect anything, right? but changing the pre-facelift auto ecu to a facelift auto ecu gains you a lil power? thanks

I have a 1998 facelift auto ECU in my car and it makes the same difference as the 2002 manual ECU I borrowed a little while beforehand.

[thfelipeth]

I have a 1998 facelift auto ECU in my car and it makes the same difference as the 2002 manual ECU I borrowed a little while beforehand. cool that clears things up then! cheers INGLETOR.

[Turbo_Steve]

Valmes, surely changing the spring tension will make no difference as the ECU has a boost target and will compensate?