Best way to launch a manual?

[foxdie]

Done a quick search, can't immediately find anything bar this post (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?46145-launch-control) that focuses on launch control devices, so posting this up on a separate thread..

What's the best way to launch a manual with and without a launch control device?

I've done a bit of googling and there's quite a few viewpoints on this for various cars except for ours. I've seen things as get the revs nice and high before dumping the clutch as quickly possible, some say slip but at the expense of wearing clutch etc..

One thing that seems more recommended is getting the car into boost, then dropping the clutch and letting the wheels spin.. I realise that this may not happen with some new Toyo Proxes T1-R's on..

Any advice welcome :)

[Atik]

Clutch down, 4000rpm, release clutch, hold tight, job done!

Or so I have been told. Cant bring myself to rev so high and hurt the clutch! /lol

[MarkSanne]

Clutch down, 4000rpm, release clutch, hold tight, job done!

Or so I have been told. Cant bring myself to rev so high and hurt the clutch! /lol

You should try that in a VR2 sometime! :) :) :) 0-60 in 30 seconds!

[MPBVr4]

Or so I have been told. Cant bring myself to rev so high and hurt the clutch! /lol

mmm Agreed. Quickest way to stuff the transmission. Subaru boys wang it up to the limiter and "side step the clutch" ouch!!!!

[Atik]

Never really done any launches on my previous cars, but in the VR4, I keep to around 2000rpm, stay just under the biting point on the clutch and just as I release the clutch, get some more revs going, so just as the clutch bites, the revs are around 2300 and rising. If I catch the revs just right, which in my opinion is about 2600, the car goes like a rocket, but otherwise, I find it bogs down and only shoots off once the revs catch up.

[SGHOM]

3500 rpm, so your on boost, & drag the clutch briefly to avoid wheel spin. Don't drop the clutch.

[miller]

be brave, give it 4500rpm.....whats a clutch every 5k

[Nutter_John]

on a manual 5000+ rpm or and you will move like sh!t of a shovel , any less than that and you can bog down as I found a few times

6000+ will induce wheelspin but when the tyres have finished getting hot they grip like nothing you have felt before

but in simple terms , dont do unless your willing to buy a new clucth as launching really should be left to twin plates or tripple plate clucths

[foxdie]

6000+ will induce wheelspin but when the tyres have finished getting hot they grip like nothing you have felt before

Will the VR-4 drivetrain / manual box be able to cope with that? I know the AYC rear diff probably won't but then in my case I've got a S-AYC rear diff :)

[miller]

The Auto Box is prob a lot more reliable for launches than the manual box!

[SGHOM]

The Auto Box is prob a lot more reliable for launches than the manual box!

I launched my auto a couple of times :-)

[bradc]

The auto is much easier to get off the line consistantly fast, unless you are willing to be brutal with the clutch in a manual.

[ILLEGAL]

depends on why your launching in the first place!!
TRACK/CIRCUIT: if your launching in a track race, theres plenty of time during the lap/s to catchup on any lack of launch you may have missed out on. so no need to launch.
DRAG RACING: basically theres no excuse when it comes to drag racing, if your not going to drive it like its stolen, you wont be rewarded with a good time.

what i do is start off with a limiter launch for the first practice runs. then on the next few practice, drop it down to 6000rpm then to 5000rpm. every time you visit the track the surface will be different. after the practice session try and find the best rpm to launch that gives you the lowest 60' times. 1.9seconds should be the goal on your first night/day out. then while shifting gears dont lift the throttle, stay hard on it during shifts to get the most out of your run.

if you worried about stuff breaking !!dont race!! like i said, theres no excuse when drag racing. launching @ under 4000rpm? it takes more rpm to get your whale of a car off the line then that. once the rpm drops there is no boost @4000rpm launches unless you introduce some clutch slip... which is really the next step in launching. but if you can get the 60' time down to a 1.8-1.7 your doing well.

[richy rich]

You should not be launching yet any way.

[foxdie]

You should not be launching yet any way.

Lalala I can't hear you :) Kidding mate!

I'm trying to keep it under control, I've only done it once, fluffed it, thought I better ask before I try again :)

[Kryton]

be brave, give it 4500rpm.....whats a clutch every 5k

Well said! All of a sudden I miss having the evo with the triple plate :(

[Pugme]

slightly off topic, am i riht in thinking to launch the auto, put in drive, foot on brake, floor it, ping the brake when at 5k?

[aboo]

With the auto foot on brake and bring the revs up. I only get up to about 3500rpm before the car start moving. You could probably get more with better brakes then release the brake pedal.

[Subaru ETA]

slightly off topic, am i riht in thinking to launch the auto, put in drive, foot on brake, floor it, ping the brake when at 5k?

If it will get to 5k! I would have thought the torque converter stall limit would have been lower then that? Havent driven many auto vr4s so haven't really tried.

As for manuals - I found 5500rpm was good. Anymore and it would turn my bridgestones into smoke.

I had a heavy duty exedy clutch and had no problems

[CANDEE]

With an auto, you should let the car settle, left foot on the brake hard(ie to the floor) then hit the throttle, you should be able to get up to 3-3.5k without the car moving, and you can use the handbrake to help keep the car sitting there.

To get the most out of it, wait for the back of the car to lift up as well... :P Then let the brake go... /rally

[miller]

Ive had the auto up to 4500k at launch. Beyonf that even the handbrake and footbrake cant hold it.....but boy does it go like a scalded cat! VERY hard to match it with a manual. When you can spin all 4 wheels in the auto in the dry then you know you have a good launch...

[Pugme]

lol, cheers lads, i think ill wait for better weather and better brakes before attempting this! :D

[Nutter_John]

Lalala I can't hear you :) Kidding mate!

I'm trying to keep it under control, I've only done it once, fluffed it, thought I better ask before I try again :)

On a 1000% serious note , you need to bed the clutch in for at least 500 miles before even trying anything like an agressive start or you will paying for a new clutch to be installed again

[foxdie]

On a 1000% serious note , you need to bed the clutch in for at least 500 miles before even trying anything like an agressive start or you will paying for a new clutch to be installed again

Admittedly both Nick and Richy said that, I've only tried it once and I'm not going to be doing it again for a while, I'm roughly about halfway to that 500 miles now so won't be long I guess.

[Nick Mann]

/pan

[enigma]

best way to launch a manual is to convert it to auto!

[Gowf]

on a manual 5000+ rpm or and you will move like sh!t of a shovel , any less than that and you can bog down as I found a few times

6000+ will induce wheelspin but when the tyres have finished getting hot they grip like nothing you have felt before

but in simple terms , dont do unless your willing to buy a new clucth as launching really should be left to twin plates or tripple plate clucths

5000rpm? You'l spin all 4, easily!

It all depends on how you do it. Yes you do want to be on boost, but you wont achieve that unless you have some form of launch control (unless in an auto as you can load it up). When launching mine, i stuggled to get any traction at all, and that was on Pzero's. The only way to do it was keep it relatively sedate, around 3kish and build the boost up by blipping the throttle, then when your ready to go, go on that blip, with a bit of clutch slip if it will allow.

Also bear in mind that I went through a exeedy paddle clutch very quickly indeed with that. once wheels were spinning as they always did, you couldnt get 2nd straight away, you had to wait for the clutch to chill a bit. (about a second).

Now im on the tripple plate i dont have that problem at all, its just everything else that breaks, but again, traction is a major issue. I've never launched on the strip with launch control on, as never got chance to set it up properly even though it does make a bar sitting on the line, but what i will say is this.......... when your going and your right foot is firmly planted. KEEP IT THERE!!! dont lift when changing gear. It means you've got to be quick and not mess it up, but flat shifting is the only way. that way you dont go off boost.

But ultimately, what a lot of the evo's do, and i was always tempted to do it but never got round to it, get the revs right up and use 2nd gear, then you'l launch properly! BTW, my best 60' was 1.9, which is pretty apauling to be honest. Not as bad as the worst that was 2.8, but andy (aboo) can tell you more about that one!

[Nutter_John]

At the pod 5000 rpm was just about right to get off the line without much spin , beyond that and all four would light up

launch control set at 4000 rpm just bogged down on launch

quickest 60ft i can remember was 1.86 on a nice warm day which gave me a 14.1 as I had no 4th gear so passed the line still in 3rd

[Eurospec]

Drag launching is a bit of an art, but my advice is, if you are not prepared to break stuff, DONT DO IT!

Launch RPM depends on traction conditions, if there is more grip, you can use more rpm, if there is less, then less. You have to feel it a bit. What you want to do is chrip the tyres and grip, but not bog the engine out of the spool range.

So what i tend to do if i do a no l/c launch is blip the throttle causing the revs to rise, then release it, cuasing them to fall. I repeat the process, holding the clutch just on the bite point and resisting motion with the handbrake (This preloads the drivetrain to help minimise damage from shock loading). i go vroom, vroom, vroo..... and just as the revs rise through my chosen rpm (with the turbos spinning up) i dump the clutch, floor the gas, and release the handbrake. Off you go! Hopefully.

Drag launch is very hard on the drivetrain components. Shock loads will smash stuff to bits, and holding the clutch dragging smokes it pretty quickly.

Cheers,

Ben.

[Gowf]

At the pod 5000 rpm was just about right to get off the line without much spin , beyond that and all four would light up

launch control set at 4000 rpm just bogged down on launch

quickest 60ft i can remember was 1.86 on a nice warm day which gave me a 14.1 as I had no 4th gear so passed the line still in 3rd

Thats because you wernt making boost from the launch control. The MAP's LC isnt really very good, or at least it wasnt originaly. It made all the good noises, then they changed it and it sounded very lame. However, proper lc with antilag does what its meant to do!
Santa Pod is usualy pretty bad for fwd on the rwyb days as youve got to drive through the bloody water trap and then go on a not very sticky strip as they dont want the clio and corsas out there to be snapping shafts every 2 seconds.

[aboo]

5000rpm? You'l spin all 4, easily!

It all depends on how you do it. Yes you do want to be on boost, but you wont achieve that unless you have some form of launch control (unless in an auto as you can load it up). When launching mine, i stuggled to get any traction at all, and that was on Pzero's. The only way to do it was keep it relatively sedate, around 3kish and build the boost up by blipping the throttle, then when your ready to go, go on that blip, with a bit of clutch slip if it will allow.

Also bear in mind that I went through a exeedy paddle clutch very quickly indeed with that. once wheels were spinning as they always did, you couldnt get 2nd straight away, you had to wait for the clutch to chill a bit. (about a second).

Now im on the tripple plate i dont have that problem at all, its just everything else that breaks, but again, traction is a major issue. I've never launched on the strip with launch control on, as never got chance to set it up properly even though it does make a bar sitting on the line, but what i will say is this.......... when your going and your right foot is firmly planted. KEEP IT THERE!!! dont lift when changing gear. It means you've got to be quick and not mess it up, but flat shifting is the only way. that way you dont go off boost.

But ultimately, what a lot of the evo's do, and i was always tempted to do it but never got round to it, get the revs right up and use 2nd gear, then you'l launch properly! BTW, my best 60' was 1.9, which is pretty apauling to be honest. Not as bad as the worst that was 2.8, but andy (aboo) can tell you more about that one!
Yes I can that's cause it was the wettest day in Scottish history & you never got traction till you went into 4th:p

[Oblivion]

I'd add my 2 cents of launch method but I say just go to the strip and have fun trying different methods! Everyone will have different opinions but in the end finding what works best for you is half the fun :)

[VR4WGN]

screw the lunches lol.. just get rolling and let your opponent think theyr winning then STAB the Clutch and accelerate and be amazed at the picture of the car next to you in your mirrors....
i find this technique most helpfull in aiding the drifting too but i do not condone it lol,, i use to do it on my workshop road,(rural ish)

[twisted32]

If you want to launch, but want to minimise driveline breakages, the method advised to me by an Evo specialist was to sidestep the clutch, but ensure your rev's are high enough to get wheel spin. If you don't get the wheel spin, you driveline will load up, and then increase the risk of going bang (he actually had a nice example of a gearbox casing that let go around the input shaft from a customer not giving it enough to "unwind" with a little wheelspin).

[nuster100]

I use the tried and tested method of foot on the brake, then 3500rpm with the other foot.

My friend has a lancer GSR turbo and he sidestepped the clutch at 6000rpm, the back of the car squatted so hard it hit the ground!!!!!

Jay