LPG conversion

[rikward]

Due to the cost of fuel in the UK I am considering an LPG conversion. With the amount of miles I'll end up doing, the savings in fuel will pay off the conversion within a year.

Has anyone else had their car converted? Was it worth it? Have there been any problems?

[Roadrunner]

I know that this subject has been discussed for more than a couple of years on various BBS sites (Scoobynet, MLR and here to name but a few). I've seen replies from people who carry out the conversions that say there's no technical reason it won't work on a high-performance turbocharged car but I don't know of anyone who has gone the extra distance to have the conversion done on one.

IIRC, LPG is around 106 octane, but only around 90% of the efficiency of petrol, so you get less power per gallon used, but it's half the price so the trade-off is generally acceptable. The car needs to be dual-fuel because you can't start the car on LPG so the ECU needs to be able to cope with 95, 97, 98 RON (or whatever) as well as the 106 of the LPG. In practice, I believe it does this by catering for the lower octane and not remapping for the higher octane, so shouldn't cause any problems with detonation or similar.

My only reservation would be that pump petrol is a complex compound to which has been added detergents and other ingredients to ensure the engine internals are kept clean and efficient (one of the reasons that Shell Optimax appears to be so popular, although its estimated 98.6 RON may have a bearing). LPG has nothing to aid the cleaning of the engine - it may be so clean-burning as to not need anything of course, I don't know.

From my viewpoint, I don't want to be the first to do it - these are not cheap engines to repair ...

Brian

[Nick Mann]

The 6A13 has been converted many times successfully.

I have heard of a converted 6A13TT, but I couldn't get any feedback. The engine seems to be quite strong, lots of people on this site abuse their VR4 engines substantially, and we don't get that many failures.

If I ever get to the bottom of the lpg VR4 I have heard of, I will post the results up.

[rikward]

Thanks for the info.

My understanding is that the "chasers" in unleaded are not required in LPG as it is a cleaner fuel. However, I need to get more information on this. I'll make some enquiries with mechanics/engineers that do this kind of work. When I get any useful information, I'll post it...

[rikward]

Below are details I have found from http://www.greenfuel.org.uk regarding the option and costs. Unfortuantly no grants are available for the Mitsubishi :sad3: . (The figures are based on 25,000 miles per year)

Prins:- VSI II 69927 with torodial (spare wheel) tank: Top selling ‘State of the art’ Dutch multi-point sequential injection technology with proven reliability and power. Programmed precisely to your car and supplied with 12 month factory warranty

Financial Saving
(£)
MPG (Petrol) 25.65 ( :laugh: This is a bit generous!)
MPG (LPG) 20.52
Gallons / Year (LPG) 1218.32
Saving Per Gallon £2.09
Fuel Saving Per Year £1,628.35
Saving Per Month £135.70

Environment Saving
(Tonnes Per Year)
Petrol CO2 Emissions 9.33
LPG CO2 Emissions 8.40
CO2 Tailpipe Saving 0.93
Well To Wheel CO2 Saving 1.12
Total CO2 Saving 2.05
NOx Saving 15-80%
Hydrocarbons 20-40%
Carbon Monoxide 30-35%

Conversion Price
Conversion (Prins (G) 69927) £1800.00
Toroidal Tank (To fit in spare wheel well) inc.
Complete Fit and Check inc.
Warranty inc.
Total Price £1800.00
Total Price (Including VAT) £2115.00 :wtf:

I also calc'd this myself using 18 MPG and I reckon the unit would pay for itself in about 10 months (based on 25,000 miles per year)

I enquired about the computer management system, and the Prins system has its own computer that is mapped from the car, and not the other way around. :thumbsup: . The engines run better and will last an extra year or two. The loss in power would equate to 1-2%, which is negligable.

If the work is done via an engineer approved by Greenfuels, insurance is not effected. This work is essentually a modifaction to the car and could warrent a premium. :( .

Servicing can be completed by any competant mechanic and should be included in the servicing of the car (but that is down to the mechanic of course).

Still havn't heard from Shell but I have spoken to a Uni Professor, and he assured me that the LPG is a cleaner and more efficient fuel than petroleum. Hence, the detergents and chasers are not needed.

[Kieran]

Very interesting information. The site reckons i'd save about £93 a month by using LPG.... I may be tempted. :)

[Legnum Boy]

All I can say is.... good on you all... :-D

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the more that change to LPG means...

more optimax for me!!!!! :p

[I-S]

Perhaps I'd have considered it last year, as I drove 20k miles. However, since I now drive ***ger all, it isn't worth it. I fill the tank of the car once every three or four weeks now, rather than every 4 days...

[Grinder]

I have read in more than one journal that tax on LPG is set to rise more in line with that for petrol. Another Labour stitch-up. (bit of politics there - sorry!)

[wirdy]

LPG has nothing to aid the cleaning of the engine - it may be so clean-burning as to not need anything of course, I don't know.Brian

Never used LPG myself but colleagues have ran LPG Vauxhalls. I did an oil change for one of them on a Omega - 12000 miles & the engine oil was just slightly browner than the new stuff - no sludge and still clear. Smelled different to normal used engine oil too.

I'd say that in a VR4 this LPG conversion could extend your oil service intervals to 12000+ miles if you use fully synth.

I don't do enough miles to justify the initial expense though.

(would like to see some evidence of LPG being OK for turbo cars like ours though - AFAIK our ECU's squirt in excess fuel to cool the cylinders on full boost)

[rikward]

I am aware that the cost of LPG has stabalised until 2007, as part of the governments commitment to alternative fuels. But after 2007, who knows?

Rather Labour than Lib Dems though. I am generally a supporter of the Lib Dems, but I am sure I have seen that part of their proposals is to tax 4x4's and gas guzzlers of the road. Would that also include the Legnum? :Cry1:

[Roadrunner]

part of their proposals is to tax 4x4's and gas guzzlers of the road
Can't be done. People like us (who spend much more than we should on buying, maintaining and running our cars) would see any additional tax as just a drop in the very large buckets of cash that we spend already, so we'd pay up. And what would happen to the millions of 4x4s in current use if everyone gave them up on the spot? Typical political pish - attention-grabbing policy, not thought through, that they think might be a vote-winner.

Anyway, it's easy for politicians to spout forth any policy when they're not going to get elected ... ;)

And the way democracy is being eroded in this country, it wouldn't matter a toss if an incoming government didn't honour any election pledges. Just look at the lot that's in just now :rolleyes: Don't get me started ... :lipsrseal

Brian

[rikward]

I forgot to add some info to this thread, but rather than re-type.

Click here (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=46604#post46604)