ECUflash for v6 N/A

[lateshow]

I just managed to get the rom out of -02 Avance 2.5 V6, it seems to have a 7203. Has anyone tried the same? Does anyone have any kind of definitions? The identifying data seems to be in a different place compared to vr4...

[MarkSanne]

Interesting!

[GalantOnly]

I don't think that it will be worth the effort on N/A

[elnevio]

Alex has a good point. It's often been realised that the factory map on the V6 is actually pretty good, especially for factory!

No harm in trying (unless you kill it, of course! :skull:), and there MAY be some gains to be had, although I would expect any gains to be minimal, perhaps a bhp or two. There may be some room for improvement on cruising economy though, perhaps?

[GalantOnly]

:iagree:
All N/A V6 is either 7202 or 7203 btw...:)

[lateshow]

Yes, already managed to get out the memory model. It is EM2434 for this 7203Fa model. There was this wild idea that could we use these ecus for vr4 but the ignition is different. :(

Actually I'm doing this for practice. I want to learn something about disassembly. :)

Perhaps a whole new exhaust and exhaust manifolds could need some tuning from ecu too, but you can't tune ignition, right?

[lateshow]

Found Hi & Low octane fuel maps (10x15), actually i'd be better off disassebling GDi Rom but it doesn't appear to have a H8 processor. Maybe more like evo 7-> hopefully. :)

Bugger, no can do with the GDi. Either it has some kind of weird ecu or OP 2.0 doesn't work with evo 7 and it's relatives.

[lateshow]

Now I have the locations for Hi&Lo Fuel and Hi&Lo ignition, doesn't seem too aggressive.....

[MarkSanne]

Which means... ?

[bradc]

All Jap manual ST-R's are 7201 with steel case. Jap car's also have only one O2 sensor.

Did any cars in Europe come with a 7202 or 7203 and have only one O2 sensor?

[The Vee]

Did any cars in Europe come with a 7202 or 7203 and have only one O2 sensor?


Brad. Mine was a mid facelift V6-24 and had 2 sensors. One pre and one post Cat. I believe the ECU I sent you all those yonks ago was a 7202/3. Certainly had the plastic case. It was MY2000. From sport etc onwards I believe they started the extra sensors in the manifolds. Don't think any, including pre facelift had just one sensor ala VR4.

[MarkSanne]

In my V6 -> VR2 (1999) it was already 2-sensored. But I have no idea what ECU was in back when it was V6 N/A.

[GalantOnly]

No euro Galants had only one lambda, Brad. No matter what engine...

[bradc]

Andy, I never received that ECU! I had just thought you had forgotten about it!

[The Vee]

Oh nads! That must have been 18months / 2 years ago? Don't think there's much I can do now. Still, at least it was a freebie, but not the point really. Did you get another one then? Oddly I sent out a VR4 one (UK) never heard if that one was recieved. Again though it was only an unwanted one on my part. Guess ECUs me 'n post dont mix /pan.

[e5dcb]

So what does the map look like. Could it be adjusted for a better drive? Or are they really good from factory as I was told and no point adjusting map.

[crazydriver81]

would be interesting to see the difference between european spec v6 and jap spec v6, as there are 12 hp difference, although it is the same engine. possibly due to exhaust gas regulations? (would explain the difference in numbers of O2 sensors too). But what effect does it have on engine mangement? where does the 12 hp come from?

[e5dcb]

Poss better fuel rating in Japan.

[bradc]

They are designed for standard fuel in Japan which is 93-94 octane.

[zentac]

I need to do something similar with the FTO when I get silver one back and see what chip that has in it.

[lateshow]

Sorry, forgot to post this but here they are!

43620

[e5dcb]

Have you got the rom fella? could you post that up. I have a friend on Geekmapped who is very intrested in looking into this for you.
But he needs to change the XML so it reads right.

[lateshow]

Ok, there's one problem. I suspect that rom id isn't in the same place as it has a rather strange id number....But here are the rom and the xml. Extensions changed! Based on vr4 xml so there's lots of faulty data, only rom id, fuel and ignition maps are certain.

[e5dcb]

Come over as a .wmv?

[lateshow]

You cant post xml or rom files? You just have to change the extensions. The first one is .xml and the second one is .hex.

[e5dcb]

Cant seem to do anything with that most just pop them in a zip file.

[lateshow]

Does this work for you then?

[Shtiv]

If they are designed only for 93-94 octane you might get some gains, commodores here run on 91 on their hi octane maps and you can get massive gains from ignition timing, different company, maybe a different philosophy but maybe worth a go....

[adamvortex]

so final verdict? can you do much with the n/a v6 engine? as i do think they are so under powerd & would be nice to see what can be done to improve

[zentac]

they are basically the same as an FTO, so air filter/exhausts will get you up to 5bhp. Remap or aftermarket ECU up to 10. Cams are probably your best bet. Or a DOHC setup from a VR4.

[e5dcb]

Just a K&N filter in the standard Airbox seems to work very well in my case (see Sig) Would like to change the exhaust but I think the cost would outway the gain.

[lateshow]

e5dcb: Have you had any progress with the v6 rom?

[e5dcb]

I have sent it to the guy who mapped my evo but nothing back yet ie if the maps good or could be adjusted abit.

[zentac]

Looks like some of the FTO's have the same 7202 chip, but I seem to be having problems pulling the rom off at the moment.

[adamvortex]

keep us posted guys! im very interested in the outcome

[sonicsoundzdj]

keep us posted guys! im very interested in the outcome

Same :)

[lateshow]

I don't think you need much else to tune N/A than fuel and ignition maps......and I have already found those....the location of rom id seems to be the issue now.

[Tappara]

Just my 2 cents in re NA Mitsu donks.
I have (selling it) 3L Magna with CAI, K&N, Headers, XForce muffler and when tuned (Interceptor ECU) from Std map on dyno we gained some 15kW at wheels. Magna tune was obv for 91 oct gas but I'm using 98 now. This hopefully gives an idea what can be gained on that size NA engine.
On-road tuning after dyno using an AFR Gauge changed the low load and RPM figures a bit and I was surprised how lean I needed to tune it to gain best torque - 15,5 - 16. Not 14,7 like lot of ppl seem to think is the most desirable AFR. Depends on the engine!

[Kenneth]

~15.5 is known to be the best AFR for closed loop. 14.7 is for emissions / catalytic converter operation which is why manufacturers use that AFR. It isn't really anything to do with the engine as such (has to be 4 stroke petrol of course)

[Tappara]

I re-connected the std ECU back once to read its AFRs and yes it was a bit like you say. Seemed more like solid 14,7 then richer at higher loads (TPS / BF opening) and RPM.
I used that 15,5-16 figure only on very low load and RPM - 1-7% TPS and 1000 - 2000 RPM ruffly. AFR then gets gradually richer "down" to 12s on high loads and RPM, in a linear fashion. Also, Dyno tune is generally done with WOT, starting from say 2000 RPM if practical. Good tuner will try to simulate on-road driving on the Dyno, but it's not easy there fore doesn't provide best results on that area. I have seen a "flashed" Magna AFR and it was almost solid 14,7 all over. Hmmmm..... You want it richer at high revs.
Some engines prefer richer mixture than others - I think older big donks. Can't swear on that cos haven't tuned any other than the Magna engine.

[lateshow]

Yes I think one could tune the 6a13 NA engine for better fuel economy too same way, have tried it with the vr4 too.

[adamvortex]

Anymore info on this topic??? i would love to know if the N/A v6 can be tweeked for more power

[foxdie]

Hi Adam,

Yes the N/A V6 can be reflashed now, I did make a post about how I managed to make a definition with Lauri (lateshow)'s help for a N/A V6 7202 ECU, but it appears to have disappeared..

Here's the definition and stock image to get started :)

49722

Dropbox mirror: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36481366/ECU/v6%207202.zip

[darth_grantius]

Hi,

A couple of questions:

1. Can you use any software to view fuel usage in L/100kms on the N/A V6?
2. On a Japanese engine - does the Hi Octane map refer to 91RON like we have here in NZ or would it be more like BP Ultimate 98?
3. Is it possible to modify the A/F ratio to point at something higher like 15 or 16:1 on the N/As?

Cheers

[adamvortex]

jason, will this mean you can remap the ECU now? if so what would the cost be? and also what will the BHP be after?

[foxdie]

jason, will this mean you can remap the ECU now? if so what would the cost be? and also what will the BHP be after?

Hi Adam, yes it's possible, however there won't be major gains, we're only talking a few HP at most (165~ hp).

If you had some supporting mods (decat or sports cat, performance panel filter) and the car is generally in good health, you may get somewhere around the 170-175 HP, that's pushing it pretty hard*

Cost is £30/hr and shouldn't take more than 2 hours.

* If pushed too far it'll actually make less power (post-MBT), possibly even some knock, mapping N/A cars is purely fuelling and timing so is a more involving process, running a higher octane fuel may help

[adamvortex]

Cheers J, my car has done 84k got std exhaust system which is on the cards to be changed, std air filter again I will get round to that. I run it on Tesco's 99 and have done since I bought it just over a year ago, I must admit I have noticed the MPG has got better with that fuel. would the re-flash make it even better for MPG?
Its such a shame that the v6 N/A engine cant have more power really, I know its not a bad engine std, Mitsubishi should have made it around the 190-200BHP mark. I think the UK ones are only 160BHP std?
I wonder if that engine could be supercharged running fairly low boost just to give it a little bit more?

[lateshow]

You need a wideband to tune it properly lads! An expert tuner here in Finland says that you can tune it to 13 AFR on full throttle. The standard maps indicate that it may run much richer than that. And another fact: There were slight differences when it comes to ignition with the 163 bhp and 170 bhp models.

For fuel consumption you should buy the UTCOMP. (Although dont recommend it in cold areas like Finland but England will do)

For better fuel economy you may trie to run it a bit leaner (although havent found open loop maps) and use bigger advance load 0-70 and rpm 0-3000.

And the rom id didnt work or did it?

[foxdie]

Cheers J, my car has done 84k got std exhaust system which is on the cards to be changed, std air filter again I will get round to that. I run it on Tesco's 99 and have done since I bought it just over a year ago, I must admit I have noticed the MPG has got better with that fuel. would the re-flash make it even better for MPG?
Its such a shame that the v6 N/A engine cant have more power really, I know its not a bad engine std, Mitsubishi should have made it around the 190-200BHP mark. I think the UK ones are only 160BHP std?
I wonder if that engine could be supercharged running fairly low boost just to give it a little bit more?

Hi again Adam,

I'd recommend changing the exhaust and filter before a remap, that way you'll get the most gains. Running Tesco 99 is good, the higher octane fuel will help towards preventing knock, and yes remapping will make it slightly more economical on cruise.

The N/A Galant V6 can be anywhere between 156-162 HP on paper, I've had a theory for a while now that we could possibly squeeze 200 HP out of the N/A cars by fitting DOHC heads from a VR-4 engine.

Supercharging isn't worth it to be honest, far too much cost involved vs the returns, you'd be better just fitting a VR-4 engine to the car, granted it'll still be FWD and wheelspin like a bitch, but it's been done numerous times (look at The Vee (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/search.php?do=finduser&userid=1044&contenttype=vBForum_Post&showposts=1)'s posts ;)).

[adamvortex]

Thanks again jason for the very helpful info! Its very interesting to see what can or can't be done with the v6 n/a

yeah i know what your saying about the other bits vr4 head etc, with all that work and hassle i would always opt for just buying a vr4

[darth_grantius]

Cheers J, my car has done 84k got std exhaust system which is on the cards to be changed, std air filter again I will get round to that. I run it on Tesco's 99 and have done since I bought it just over a year ago, I must admit I have noticed the MPG has got better with that fuel. would the re-flash make it even better for MPG?
Its such a shame that the v6 N/A engine cant have more power really, I know its not a bad engine std, Mitsubishi should have made it around the 190-200BHP mark. I think the UK ones are only 160BHP std?
I wonder if that engine could be supercharged running fairly low boost just to give it a little bit more?

If they made it 200HP then less people would have opted for the Vr4 (no reason why they couldn't have made it more powerful - nissan RB25DE and 2.5 Cefiro motor make around 200hp). Great sounding V6 though

[sonicsoundzdj]

Iv always thought that for a 2.5 V6 the HP is very low. I had mine on the rollers at 177HP with very few mods. Would be interested in a remap if it means either more HP or better MPG though

[darth_grantius]

Iv always thought that for a 2.5 V6 the HP is very low. I had mine on the rollers at 177HP with very few mods. Would be interested in a remap if it means either more HP or better MPG though

Better MPG would be good - I get around 400kms a tank around town and I got 600km from a tank during a very long trip - I'm thinking of the AFR mod or similar...

[foxdie]

AFR mod to around 15.6 should be quite practical on the N/A V6, plus increasing timing a couple of degrees in the cruise areas should gain you an extra 3-4 MPG easy.

[darth_grantius]

AFR mod to around 15.6 should be quite practical on the N/A V6, plus increasing timing a couple of degrees in the cruise areas should gain you an extra 3-4 MPG easy.

Thanks for your response foxdie - what is the best way to go about modifying AFRs?

Also, does EvoScan work with the N/A v6s? I would like to modify the timing etc and view fuel economy output.

[foxdie]

Thanks for your response foxdie - what is the best way to go about modifying AFRs?

Also, does EvoScan work with the N/A v6s? I would like to modify the timing etc and view fuel economy output.

The best way to modify cruise AFR is to use a wideband controller, such as an Innovate MTX-L, and configure its narrowband output to have 15.6 at it's 0.5V point.

Evoscan should work with N/A V6's, it'll either be as MUT-II or OBD-II, not sure which. You won't be able to modify the timing nor tune the ECU with it, just log / read output.

[darth_grantius]

The best way to modify cruise AFR is to use a wideband controller, such as an Innovate MTX-L, and configure its narrowband output to have 15.6 at it's 0.5V point.

Evoscan should work with N/A V6's, it'll either be as MUT-II or OBD-II, not sure which. You won't be able to modify the timing nor tune the ECU with it, just log / read output.

i might give this a go actually. I also read this in the workshop manual:

When the engine is cold or operated at high altitudes, the ignition timing is slightly advanced to provide optimum performance.

Would modifying the output of the barometric sensor be a benefit?

[Galant_martin]

Hello, i have a short Question..

Is it possible to deactivate the Immobilizer with ECUflash? Cuz i know someone who has a OP2 cable, and i use a alert in my car and dont wanna spend 100€+ for a key with chip.. and i have only one :(

Thanks

[BCX]

Hello, i have a short Question..

Is it possible to deactivate the Immobilizer with ECUflash? Cuz i know someone who has a OP2 cable, and i use a alert in my car and dont wanna spend 100€+ for a key with chip.. and i have only one :(

Thanks

yes should be, download the ROM and send it to me/upload it. I'll create you a def that you can use to control this.

[Galant_martin]

@ BCX

Thanks, great! another question is, do i need only the OBD2 connector from the OP2 cable to download and flash or do i need the mitsubishi reflash connector too?

[Anderz]

@ BCX

Thanks, great! another question is, do i need only the OBD2 connector from the OP2 cable to download and flash or do i need the mitsubishi reflash connector too?

You will need the flash connector to read or write roms

[Galant_martin]

Thats only a 2 wire connection.. i dont know if its allowed her but does anyone has a schematic?

greetings and big THANKS :)

[Galant_martin]

Hello everybody ;) Ive already send my ECU rom to BCX but if anyone other wanna look at it here it is! :)

https://rapidshare.com/files/3987728096/Galant_V6_2000.bin

We have dumped it with "Mitsubishi All 7203FA"

Its from a Galant EA0 NA V6, 120kw, 2000 Avance, Austria

greetings

[foxdie]

Thanks Martin :)

Can you confirm if this ROM is virgin or has been tweaked in some way?

I've just checked it against 2 other N/A SOHC V6 ROMs I've got that are known-stock and the MD5 hash is different (meaning the contents of the ROM are different).

[Galant_martin]

No problem ;)

As far as i know its virgin ROM, i dont did anything!

And i dont think anybody before me too..

Would ecuflash stop us from dumping if we choose the wrong model, ie 7203F instead of FA?

[BCX]

Here you go... more to come. Will disassemble more, there's plenty to define - but this should get you started with the bare essentials.

Download Def File Here! (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/9305786/Defs/24290000.xml)

Found by Disassembly:

Low & High octane Fuel map
Low & High Ign Map
Cat-Warmup map
Immobiliser Code - use bit3 of periphery0 to disable immobiliser completely
Rev/Speed limiters
Injector Scalings
MUT Table

[Galant_martin]

So tomorrow is the day where we reflash my ECU, im really nervous ;)

First we try the Immobilizer off!

I have another thread where i plan a single Turbo mod, would it be possible to run bigger maps on my ECU cuz the NA Map only have 100% Load while Turbo is much more?!

I dont know much about mapping right now, a mate would help me but his and mine question is, is that possible?

greetings

[Galant_martin]

Hey,
flashing works but we had to change the xml a little bit.
It's not 7203FA, it's only F. Our fault.. Than we were able to write the new rom to ECU!

greetings

[dutch driver]

and ???? how is the car running on that map?

[adamvortex]

yeah whats the final result? been waiting a long time to see what the N/A v6 engine can do, keep up the good work!

[foxdie]

Wow blast from the past :)

I dug up my old N/A defs / ROMs earlier, it's something I'd be interested in doing at the tuning day in a couple of weeks as it's more of a challenge.

[adamvortex]

Any update on this topic??

[retssam]

you could add:
AirFlow MAF Hz Base Table
MAF Compensation Table
MAF Size
MAF vs LOAD? (This to me the most important)

?



Here you go... more to come. Will disassemble more, there's plenty to define - but this should get you started with the bare essentials.

Download Def File Here! (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/9305786/Defs/24290000.xml)

Found by Disassembly:

Low & High octane Fuel map
Low & High Ign Map
Cat-Warmup map
Immobiliser Code - use bit3 of periphery0 to disable immobiliser completely
Rev/Speed limiters
Injector Scalings
MUT Table

[mmrowek]

Hi All,
I know that thread is quite old, but didn't want to start a new and similar one.

I own EA5A from Europe - 2.5 V6 6A13 engine (no turbos). It has a 7203FA ECU in case MR507734 (EM2434) and H8539FA memory module. I am able to download/upload from/to ROM and I used definitions I found in this forum but some data and scales were displaying incorrectly in ECUFlash. As I was able to fix the scales addresses (I based on other definitions and ROMs from here) I am unable to find correct data for some. My question is if some can take a look at the ROM / defs. and help me find the correct values and maybe there is some more like data from knock sensor. :)

I will be very grateful. :)

[Grid]

You'll want to try the Kenneths 1.03 definitions. They work well enough on stock VR4 ROMs.