Advice Needed: Evo III EBC Installation

[Beastlee]

Hi Guys,

have just fitted the e-01 to the RVR (Evo III engine, ECU and TD05-16G turbo) and noticed that with the controller in the off position the boost just keeps building. In second gear at 5000 RPM it has peaked at 21psi/1.44bar already and that was without effort. I've double checked the configuration and the hoses and all seems OK but I'm sure something isn't right. Linked below are the photos of the install, can anyone offer any insight or point out the obvious to me?

https://picasaweb.google.com/lee.eastham/E01AndHoses?authkey=Gv1sRgCJTYkJeuk4ql4wE

I have replaced the two feeds for the stock soleniod to the new Greddy solenoid (COM and NO) as well as plumbing the pressure sensor into the line between the solenoid and the the fuel pressure regulator, as advised in the Greddy manual. I know from the VR-4 that turning the e-01 to OFF normally drops the boost back to wastegate pressure but on the RVR it seems to be holding the actuator closed.

Travelling back to the UK this week and need to get this fixed before the engine goes pop on us.

Thanks
Lee

PS. The car is mental when it finally spools up!

[Beastlee]

Just been reading some guides and think I may know where I went wrong. I should have capped off the pipe from the intake pipe and run the COM side of the solenid from somewhere else. I'm just not sure where yet.

[miller]

Lee,

Im on Evo123.net

loads of knowledgable chaps on there!

[Wodjno]

From what i can see.. You have looped a pipe from the Com to the No and then to the Actuators ? I think ? This would i'm pretty sure just Boost to Oblivion.. As it has no way of telling what the Boost/Manifold pressure is!

The Com should "T" into the actuator pipe.. And the No should "T" into a Pressure source..(This tells the E-01 what Boost is being achieved and it can regulate it accordingly) Either Manifold or before the throttle body..

Hope that makes sense..

Is there a way of Teeing into tha Elbow at the rear left before it go's into the throttle body ? Thats where the "No" should "T" into /yes

[Beastlee]

Glenn, no they both go round to the front of the car, they aren't looped.

COM is connected to a T-piece that splits between the turbo outlet and the actuator, replacing the feed from the stock solenoid. NO is connected to the nipple that normally goes to the stock solenoid from the inlet pipe (between the filter and the turbo). I made sure I only did one hose at a time in order to avoid cross connecting anything.

Mike, will head over and have a look thanks. Problem I'm finding is that the RVR is configured differently to an Evo so the guides on the net aren't very helpful.

[Wodjno]

Ok.. Sorry the Black Clip that clips the 2 pipes together looked like a "T" piece.. :D

You say the "NO" go's to a source between the "Filter" and the "Turbo" ???? That means it's before the Turbo and therefore not pressurised.. If i understand what you have written to be correct ?

It needs to go between the Intercooler and the Inlet Manifold.. This will pick up positive pressure that the E-01 can read and adjust the pressure via the solenoid..


Does ??This make sense ??? :D

[Wodjno]

Mike, will head over and have a look thanks. Problem I'm finding is that the RVR is configured differently to an Evo so the guides on the net aren't very helpful.

As long as the pressure source to "COM" is taken as close to the Inlet Manifold as possible, the Car make is not important.. As you are taking the factory sensor and solenoid out of the loop...

[Beastlee]

Ok.. Sorry the Black Clip that clips the 2 pipes together looked like a "T" piece.. :D

You say the "NO" go's to a source between the "Filter" and the "Turbo" ???? That means it's before the Turbo and therefore not pressurised.. If i understand what you have written to be correct ?

It needs to go between the Intercooler and the Inlet Manifold.. This will pick up positive pressure that the E-01 can read and adjust the pressure via the solenoid..


Does ??This make sense ??? :D

Yes and I'm sure this is where I've gone a little wrong. I took the feed to the Greddy solenoid from the low pressure inlet to the OEM solenoid, instead of between the inlet and the turbo. The diagrams I've seen all point to me needing to put it before the throttle body but I only have taps after that, will they be OK? For aexample could I take the COM feed from the same feed as the BOV?

How can the stock system work from the low pressure side but not the EMB?

[Wodjno]

Yes and I'm sure this is where I've gone a little wrong. I took the feed to the Greddy solenoid from the low pressure inlet to the OEM solenoid, instead of between the inlet and the turbo. The diagrams I've seen all point to me needing to put it before the throttle body but I only have taps after that, will they be OK? For aexample could I take the COM feed from the same feed as the BOV?

How can the stock system work from the low pressure side but not the EMB?

I think you have to forget how the Stock System works. And concentrate on the Greddy System..

The "NO" has to go to a high pressure source, post turbo.. As close to the Manifold as possible /yes
The "Com" source go's to the Wastegate feed..

Connect as this and you should be up and running...

With you having it connected to a Low pressure source, the E-01 never see's positive boost pressure. Being like that, it won't regulate the boost pressure and the boost will go through the roof /yes
Just as itdid with my VR4 at the Bruntingthorpe Photo/Magazine shoot, when i had a split pipe from to the OE Boost Solenoid. So it was bleeding off boost pressure and i hit 20+psi boost... And then Fuel Cut /help

[Beastlee]

Will amend later today and report back. Thanks Glenn.

Just thought, the stock system goes to both the actuator and another location on the turbo, should they both still be connected or just the actuator?

[Wodjno]

Will amend later today and report back. Thanks Glenn.

Just thought, the stock system goes to both the actuator and another location on the turbo, should they both still be connected or just the actuator?

Another location on the Turbo ?

[Beastlee]

Yes, the feed from the stock solenoid goes into a t-piece, one end of which goes to the actuator and the other goes to somewhere on the turbo housing. I can only assume that the stock system uses the solenoid to hold the pressure between the actuator and turbo housing then vents that pressure into the low pressure side of the inlet. I'll try and draw a before and after picture to show you what I mean.

[Beastlee]

Glenn,

Diagram below is stock setup for a n Evo II/III
http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/5363/vacline05qb.gif

I thought I was starting to understand it but I'm now more confused. Here's what I should have done:
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/497/taboo20up.png

I still have both the pipes from the actuator and the pressure source connected whereas it appears I should have the EBC between the two (in place of the t-piece). That won't happen without extending the wiring as the solenoid is too far away right now. I can put a nice short piece in from the manifold which should resolve it and I then just need to make up a couple of nipples/blanked pipes to seal off the other two.

You're also supposed to put the pressure sensor in the line between the fuel solenoid and the FPR because this pressure is controlled, I'm guessing this helps it work based on the fuel input. Perhaps this shoul dbe the case on the VR4 too? At 21psi the RVR still wasn't interested in fuel cut!

[Beastlee]

All fixed now thanks, it was as described. Had to blank off the nipple on the inlet and on the outside of the turbo housing then T into the manifold to the BOV. Anyone think having the solenoid and the BOV on the same line will cause issues? Seems OK so far.

Boost is still around stock for now, logged a couple of runs with it peaking at 12.9psi but not going to push it until I can get an LC-1 or similar on there for AFRs. Need to flatten it out too but for now I'm just glad it works.

[elnevio]

At 1 bar on Eurospec's rollers, the AFRs were b-e-a-utiful! /yes

[Beastlee]

Just need to work out the settings on a Profec e-01, have never quite got my head around exactly what each one does!
Currently SET=18, GAIN=15, START=9.5 and we peak at 13psi and settle to 10-11psi.

[Mark 4]

They are bloody fiddly Lee. But just keep going until you find the sweet spot.

[Wodjno]

Just need to work out the settings on a Profec e-01, have never quite got my head around exactly what each one does!
Currently SET=18, GAIN=15, START=9.5 and we peak at 13psi and settle to 10-11psi.

Set is the Boost you want to achieve(Not in Psi) I have a set of 46 on the VR.. This achieves a peak of around 17psi in 3rd gear..
Gain is the rate the Boost builds.. I have 42 on the VR
Start is what the boost controller will try to (in PSI) hold the wastegate shut until it starts to bleed off boost/regulate. I have a Start of 10.6 on the VR.

It's just a matter of time and gradually tweaking..

Start with the Set and increase it until you achieve the Peak boost you require.. Then increase the Start(Try 50% of the Peak boost as a start point) You will feel the Boost build faster. Then start tweaking the gain. This will help hold a better boost curve..

And then tweak from then on..

[Beastlee]

Thanks Glenn, I know we've discussed it before re the one on mine but for some reason it just never sinks in.
The VR is 40/40/9.5 here and I still get fuel cut at 13psi so I only really run about 10-11 with the odd session up to 13. Would like to do a proper rolling road so I can work out what the hell it's doing but so far can't find a 4wd one in Germany.

[Wodjno]

Thanks Glenn, I know we've discussed it before re the one on mine but for some reason it just never sinks in.
The VR is 40/40/9.5 here and I still get fuel cut at 13psi so I only really run about 10-11 with the odd session up to 13. Would like to do a proper rolling road so I can work out what the hell it's doing but so far can't find a 4wd one in Germany.

Fuel Cut at 13 psi WOW.. Thats not good.. Looks like you need to get some Fuel sucked outta your Map. Or raise the Fuel Cut Threshhold.. You are running a Wideband on the VR ?

[Beastlee]

Yes LC-1 is installed. I have the e-manage installed too but it's not doing anything (and hasn't now for two years) as I don't know what the hell I'm doing and don't want to blow anything. The only supporting mod I haven't done that I wanted to was the fitment of a quality FPR, all spending on major mods went on hold until I resolve my coolant over 100mph issue. I have a HKS filter, RPW pipes, de-cat, fujitsubo exhaust, TRE pump and new cooler plugs, not to mention I run 102RON all the time.

[Wodjno]

Yes LC-1 is installed. I have the e-manage installed too but it's not doing anything (and hasn't now for two years) as I don't know what the hell I'm doing and don't want to blow anything. .

Just log a run on the E-01(or Emanage) of the AFR's at WOT from 1500rpm to 7000rpm(3rd gear pull) And then take some Fuel out using the Air/Fuel Map on the Emanage at 80% throttle and above.. Just start between 2500rpm and 6000rpm.. Then log another run and note the difference.. It is really that simple /yes Repeat and Repeat again untill you get the desired effect on your AFR trace at WOT..

Wodj

[Beastlee]

The bit I don't understand though is what I should be expecting the AFRs to be at the various points. Should be simple enough to do what you said but how much to I take out at a time and what is a safe AFR?
Sorry to be a pain, this is precisely why I haven't done anything so far.

[Wodjno]

The bit I don't understand though is what I should be expecting the AFRs to be at the various points. Should be simple enough to do what you said but how much to I take out at a time and what is a safe AFR?
Sorry to be a pain, this is precisely why I haven't done anything so far.

How much you take out is dependant on your logged runs.. I would do 3 logged runs from 1500rpm to 7000rpm and compare the 3.. They should all be pretty much the same.. Say for instance that between 3500rpm and 6000rpm at WOT your AFR's are showing to be Mid to Low 10's as i am expecting they will be.. Then Input -5 into all the data points on the Air/Fuel Map from 3500rpm to 6000rpm @ 80% throttle and above.. This should the have the affect of leaning the AFR out a bit in those sectors. Log a run and compare with the 1st runs.. You'll soon get a feel for how little or how much fuel you can subtract at various points. If yo head for an AFR of around 11.5 in that area, it with should give you a good gain in power and safe at that..

PS.. You can select the whole block of data points from 3500-6000rpm and 80-100% throttle by clicking left mouse and dragging accross those cells. This should be fine to deduct 5% on the 1st trim. As long as the AFR's are down in the 10's..

[Beastlee]

Thanks Glenn, will give it a try but perhaps not until I get back from the UK after Easter. I think I have a logged run stored and I need to to a calibration on the LC-1 so all should be good if I set some time aside. Will tweak the e-01 in the RVR first as that's doing the UK run this year. I think I need to get across for a RR day with mine but you lot keep setting them for dates I just can't make. :(

I can't select the cells as I have the e-manage and the e01 linked together. I know it's a complaint most people have about the e-01, they can't select a set of cells to modify.

[Wodjno]

I would not rely on the logged run you have stored.. Things can change /yes Do a fresh couple and take it from there /yes

You can still plug a Laptop in and Map it from there Lee.. It's only a matter of a USB Cable. Then you can selct a block of cells /yes It would be best to start on the Lappy to get a Base Tune. So much clearer to see. And then fine tune and tweak with the E-01.

Cheers

Wodj

[Beastlee]

Appreciate what you're saying, wasn't going to tweak based on that log, more get a feel for what you've described above. /yes

Will 'obtain' the e-manage software if I don't already and do what you've mentioned. Rep given for being helpful as always :)

[Wodjno]

No worries :D